• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Halo |OT5| Believe, Again

Status
Not open for further replies.
You guys are going nuts over PV right now, wait until you see the level 50 unlockable sniper rifle that sees through walls, shoots through walls, and auto-aims.

Believe.
 
This will be the first time since late 05' (37 events) not watching/attending a Halo event for me :(

kEWal.jpg

eCi7p.jpg

XkX5d.png

Same. Might tune in for the SC2 finals. But still. That was my nerd weekend I got to tell my GF I cant do nething...Ima miss that free time.
 

AusQB

Member
I hope Brutes aren't in. They were boring to fight compared to elites.

As far as Hunters go, I hope there's a forerunner equivalent. If not, bring em back. Perhaps improve their AI a little.

Agreed. Like I mentioned before, I really have no idea when, why or how the Covenant found Requiem, so I don't know if Brutes are meant to be there or not, but I'd prefer if they weren't involved in this particular part of the story. I was never thrilled about their introduction in Halo 2, they just felt out of place in the universe.

As for Hunters, I hope they're in and more abundant than in previous iterations.
 
I was never part of wolfGAF If that is what you mean.

lol did you not have a wolf avatar?

Am I crazy?

Agreed. Like I mentioned before, I really have no idea when, why or how the Covenant found Requiem, so I don't know if Brutes are meant to be there or not, but I'd prefer if they weren't involved in this particularly part of the story. I was never thrilled about their introduction in Halo 2, they just felt out of place in the universe.

As for Hunters, I hope they're in and more abundant than in previous iterations.

Well there is plenty of the Covenant to explain for Halo 4. In the aftermath of Halo 3, there isn't really a Covenant anymore, and now in Halo 4 we have what appears to at least be a semi-intact faction of the Covenant.

I really hope PV doesn't appear in the objective playlist.

I'd bet that it does.
 
What's PV?

I don't see a Bulletin or Sparkcast posted, and thought both were coming. Do we know the story there?

*goes to catch up on 600 posts*
Promethean Vision

^That

Jessica said she was doing a bulletin for today, but haven't heard anything since. The podcast got delayed until next because they wanted to record a segment of it in LA, but they didn't get the chance.

Anyone else watching the Bonnaroo Radiohead performance right meow? So good.
 
Just finished Halo 2 for the upteenth time. I gotta say, "The Great Journey," overall, is the best final level out of any Halo game. The ending (gameplay) of the level isn't the best ending of a final Halo level though.

I gotta level some criticism at 343, though, given their characterization for Guilty Spark in the terminals. His characterization between the terminals is inconsistent. By the end of the tenth terminal it seems GS wants to activate the Halo arrays and wants to enlist the Covenant's help – so why would he go blabbing about their true purpose to the Elites in the eleventh terminal? Additionally, why help Miranda remove the index from the core on I05 if he wants to activate them? Am I missing something?
 

TheOddOne

Member
The problem mostly with Promethean Vision is that the recharge speed for it is just too fast. If it was slower, it would be less of a problem – because the radar is just as effective.
 
Nice, I hope the blood has a bit more of a presence in this game, it always seemed really lacking after Halo 2. Now if they can just make the killshots have a little more splatter..
I guess it was for the sake of some kind of memory optimization going onto the 360, but I love games that give battles a little bit of persistence. I was playing the original Max Payne recently and it blew my god damn mind how the game doesn't wipe anything in the environment. Corpses, blood effects, bullet decals, footsteps, bullet casings. Even if the game's pretty linear in how you play it out, it is so cool to have a very personalized room of death that you help create. I love that in CE as well. Though by the time we got to Reach, even for something like testing bloom spread by the time I unloaded a clip on a wall and walked up to it most of the shots had already disappeared. I should go about making some before and after images of rooms and the effects of shootouts in them within these games.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Here it is:

Mix this comment with what the new Grenade Pistol looks like it can do, and it's a safe bet that one of the best weapons Bungie ever created is going to die with Reach. :-(
Toss that one in with the Chopper's demise. The pro pipe was the one weapon from Reach that really needed to return. It was the only one that really required any finesse to use well.

Promethean Vision needs a serious nerf.
^That

Jessica said she was doing a bulletin for today, but haven't heard anything since. The podcast got delayed until next because they wanted to record a segment of it in LA, but they didn't get the chance.

Anyone else watching the Bonnaroo Radiohead performance right meow? So good.

Promethean Vision
Thank you both.

I watched a couple over my lunch hour, but I'll watch some more now, thanks for the links.

I'm going to watch those and then do my list of stuff I like and don't and am worried about and stuff.
 

Voltron64

Member
Now that I have time I'm going to give a short general overview of how I feel after spending about an hour or so with the game. Which is still not enough time to really get a grasp on the game. This isn't going to really be technical.

First off I want to say that the movement/strafing, BR duels, and grenades, all feel great. I immediately felt at home as soon as I started playing. I love the fact that sprint is now default and you can quickly get back into the action rather quickly. I feel that the base movement speed should be a tad quicker though. Also, I really think the BR should be a 4 shot kill. With everyone having sprint it's pretty easy to get away as you lose your shields. I'm in favor of quicker kill times to be honest. I didn't really use the DMR as much as I'd like to comment on the damage it did. Overall though, I felt the weapons in play were balanced and served their role on the battlefield.

As for the maps, you've all had a chance to see them in action now. My favorite of the three I've played was definitely Haven. Adrift was okay, but I don't see it becoming a classic or anything. It's better than most everything in Reach though. haha

Now for my biggest concerns.
Promethean Vision. This ability allows you to see the enemy through walls and geometry. Let me say that again. It allows you to see the enemy through walls and geometry. Why would this ability be given to players? I really do not see any reason whatsoever to give a player the ability to see the enemy pretty much anywhere on the map. You say the geometry of the map isn't visible at a distance? Well once you get to know the maps what difference does it make? You'll know exactly where they are from knowing the maps so well. I got quite a few kills while using PV, ambushing players as they're about to exit a blind corner, plant a grenade, head shot, bang he's dead. I think I've read a few posts here saying only noobs will use it...lol. What are you going to use in it's place? The thruster? ha! If this ability is going to be kept in the game, instead of limiting the distance it travels as some people suggested, maybe it should be limited at close range instead and only give you a general idea of where the enemy is at a further distance, so once you reach the general area of the player it's not completely predictable as to where he is.

Hard Light Shield. Maybe not as frustrating as armor lock, as the player can be taken out multiple ways, but let me say, it's not fun getting the perfect 4 shots to the body and try to go for the head shot and up pops the shield, with no grenades to toss, and with having low shields myself. I was standing there wondering if I should retreat or wait it out, in comes his teammate, he head shots me and they both run away together all BFFs.

The game has a solid base, and feels great to play, but I truly am concerned about these two abilities.
 

Spawnling

Member
After watching all these films, PV doesn't really look or sound like that great of an idea. It just doesn't belong in Halo IMO.
 

Computron

Member
UE4 Realtime GI has me so stoked for the future.

I wonder what Corrinne and the rest of the graphics team have cooked up for Halo 4 Lighting? (Hopefully the Siggraph presentation goes through)

I have noticed quite a few oddities and changes/upgrades over the course of the forerunner map's PR cycle.
Certain pieces of that map when viewed up close are casting shadows with some interesting filtering that looks like multitap PCF, e.g. the kind you'd typically find with Dynamic/non baked shadows.
Maybe those pieces are dynamic themselves?

I hope those upgrades translate well in Forge maps.

Also, I got a feeling something wonky is up with the current build of the Mech map, especially with the outdoor lighting. Same deal, but it looks like there is no indirect lighting baked in, it's way too dark.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Just finished Halo 2 for the upteenth time. I gotta say, "The Great Journey," overall, is the best final level out of any Halo game. The ending (gameplay) of the level isn't the best ending of a final Halo level though.

I gotta level some criticism at 343, though, given their characterization for Guilty Spark in the terminals. His characterization between the terminals is inconsistent. By the end of the tenth terminal it seems GS wants to activate the Halo arrays and wants to enlist the Covenant's help – so why would he go blabbing about their true purpose to the Elites in the eleventh terminal? Additionally, why help Miranda remove the index from the core on I05 if he wants to activate them? Am I missing something?

Stay tuned.
 
Has anyone actually made a list of available uh...support abilities. Forgot what they were actually called. The two different ones. Faster shield regen, infinite sprint, etc.
 

zap

Member
So awhile back Frankie hinted that the Grenade Launcher wont be coming back because it was underused. Do the development team really believe that its replacement, the Sticky Detonator, will be different?

From watching the MLG videos it seems very ineffectual against moving targets and is quite difficult to actually get a kill with. I'm sure that with a bit of practice and skill you could get good with it, but isn't that why the GL is so underused?

I can't see the casual gamer putting the effort into it and will shun it. We will have come full circle by Halo 5. A few, dedicated SD aficionados will be the only ones calling it in or picking it up and it'll be canned. What's the point?

This post doesn't have a point either. I'm just bitching cause I want the Pro Pipe in Halo 4, even in Halo 5 would be fine. Just so long as it's there.

This. All of this.

I am going to make an effort to get Propipe every game from now, to make the most of it before Halo 4 hits. Beware.
 
Stay tuned.

Halo 2 to be rereleased with altered script confirmed?

lolz

Has anyone actually made a list of available uh...support abilities. Forgot what they were actually called. The two different ones. Faster shield regen, infinite sprint, etc.

The "perks" from the E3 build.

Tactical Package:
Firepower - Two primary weapons
Shield - Shields recharge faster

Support Package:
Ammo - start with extra ammo
Sensor - upgrade range and sensitivity of the motion radar
Awareness - shows radar when you're scoped in

I can't remember if there were other items from the leaks.
 

Computron

Member
I'd be lying if I said that I would like a little more kick from thrusters, but the re charge time wasn't a problem. I think there might be an issue of visually communicating thruster movement to the user because when I saw other players using it they seemed to move around quite a bit.

Even with that sparks shower coming out their back end?
 
I mean look at the radar:

http://i.minus.com/ibv96iXb7HSTrx.gif[IMG]

What is this, I don't even:

[IMG]http://i.minus.com/ipLC25J3MIHiY.gif[IMG]

Just borderline stupid moments to even use PV.[/QUOTE]
As I was watching the vids I kind of got the feeling that the pros simply weren't looking at their motion tracker because they're so used to it not being there because of MLG and all. So many times was yelling "behind you!" at my screen.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Stuff I Think Looks Good

-The game is just drop-dead gorgeous. The game is highly detailed, well animated, rich in color and has a very clean IQ. I'm hugely impressed with what 343 is pushing the 360 to do.

-Player movement. The base speed looks about right to me - around Halo 3's movement - and with the jumping and strafing appear to be just right. Player inertia was one of my big three problems with Reach, and it's clearly addressed fully.

-Two of the three maps look great, I love the one in the clouds with the long sight lines. Very clean art style with good sight lines and movement options. The BTB map looks to have a good asymmetric layout and snow on Halo maps makes me happy.

-Infinity Slayer scoring. It reward style and skill kills, and adds a risk/reward factor to things like multikills and assassinations. Looks well thought out.

-The scoring indicator. Clear indication of who is winning, and how far from doing so they are. Reach oddly struggled with this.

-Dat loading screen. Whoa.


Stuff I Don't Like

-The sound design. I have yet to hear a single sound effect that has punch, they all sound like they're coming through a softening filter. I've read impressions from those who played it who say the sound is very strong, so it's possible it just does not come across in videos well. I'd love to have direct sounds provided in a Bulletin or Sparkcast. But in the videos, the BR in particular sounds almost silenced.

Beyond that, the effort that went into making the player sound like they are in a suit of armor - the heavy footsteps, the creak of leather, and so on - combines with everything else going on to create a very cluttered audio landscape. I felt like it was just too much extra noise on top of the combat sounds.

-Most of the armor abilities. Jetpack is back, which I hated in Reach for how it ruined map flow. A few armor abilities look like they fill the same space as some in Reach, but designed to address flaws, but don't quite get there. The Thruster Pack appears to be a tweaked Evade, a way to dodge in one direction or escape combat faster; I don't think we need that with sprint on tap. The ability to toss up a Hard Light Shield when near death and then step around a corner and sprint away is quite worrying. Not as bad as Armor Lock, but anything that allows you to hit pause on combat outright should be excised post haste.

I'm really worried about Promethean Vision. When it was described I thought it would be a bit like sonar: users would see a pulse go out, and get a reading on the location of other players, but that information would 1) come on a delay thanks to the pulse, and 2) be intermittent and users would not see their locations between pulses. But that's not how it works, guys are seeing players from far away and tracking them as they approach, only to plug them with a Scattershot. This is very worrying.

Honestly, given how much the radar has been beefed up, Promethean Vision is really excessive. I hope it's seriously very nerfed.

-One of the maps. One looks like just another cramped metal dungeon, which too many of the human-themed maps are. Reach had too many, Halo 3 had too many (thanks, Foundry!) and one in Halo 4 is too many. Please pick a different art style!

-"Headshot! 10 Points" in the middle of the screen. This is a very poor UI decision, one which honestly baffles me. Bungie's UI was amazing for how much information it could pack onto the screen with clarity and without clutter. Halo 4's UI feels cluttered with ordnance selections and kill readings on top of all else. Please either move this to the side, or allow us to turn it off. Because I'd like to turn it off and never see it again, even if that means forgoing the information it's providing.


Stuff That Kind of Worries Me

People seemed to be struggling with the BR. I think is the combination of it being five shots to kill, the spread/recoil implementation, and the reduced aim assist are making for some fairly slopping looking gunplay.



Things I Am So Worried About I Thing It Will Wreak Multiplayer For Me

-The 3x scope on the DMR. I've said lots about this. Won't repeat it here, but about half my hopes for Halo 4 BTB went down the tubes when the 3x scope was confirmed. I will be shocked if this does not drive me away from BTB in the game. I hope I'm wrong.

-Specializations.

I think it was Kiki who said Specializations are less about giving players a big advantage and more about letting players pick abilities that cater to their play style and role on the battlefield. This terrifies me. Here's why.

In Halo games, going into a game solo and getting matched against a party - particularly a decently coordinated party - pretty much means you are doomed. Even a little coordination is enough to help a team wipe the floor against a pack of randoms. And the Halo games are generally very bad about matching solo players with parties. I play solo 90% of the time, and in Halo 3 and Reach, that meant bad things pretty often.

The addition of custom load outs and the specializations is going to dramatically accentuate that party advantage. The dude that grabs sniper is going to have the radar when scoped. The guy protecting the base is going to have Promethean Vision, plasma grenades and a rapidly recharging shield. Guys pinning you down in your base are going to spawn with tons of ammo. And so on.

Coordinated teams are going to coordinate their load outs, tactical and support packages and (where available) ordnance drops to absolutely obliterate randoms. HaloGAF parties will love it - many a 50-0 Slayer or 3-0 CTF match will result.

Parties and groups are going to love it. But as one of those guys going into matchmaking solo, I hope to hell that Halo 4 never matches me against a party, because they're going to roll over randoms like never before.
 
Halo 2 to be rereleased with altered script confirmed?

lolz



The "perks" from the E3 build.

Tactical Package:
Firepower - Two primary weapons
Shield - Shields recharge faster

Support Package:
Ammo - start with extra ammo
Sensor - upgrade range and sensitivity of the motion radar
Awareness - shows radar when you're scoped in

I can't remember if there were other items from the leaks.
There was another from e3, which was infinite sprint, which I used. I know there were more as well. If I remember correctly, each had 4 things.
 

PNut

Banned
Did something tonight I haven't done in years in Halo MP. Searched alone in ranked Halo 3.

Started off in MLG. First game the other team was AFK on Onslaught flag. De-rankers of course. Get an in game message saying "if you don't cap the flags we quit." Second game...the same thing except they suicide the whole game.

Tried TD's.....teammate quits 10 seconds into the match. He was a 50 with thousands of games played.

So lets try TS. My teammates combine for a total score of -26.

I can't imagine playing Halo MP alone all the time. It's brutal.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
I'm totally with you on Specializations, Ghaleon.

Even the simple scenario of a 1v1 encounter could be radically changed. You're fighting someone, they pop your shields, and one second later you pop theirs. You both retreat and wait for your shields to recharge. You know that your shields popped right before theirs, so as soon as you get some shields back, you jump out to finish them off before theirs come back. But LOL GUESS WHAT, they have the faster shield regen specialization, and are already at full shields again.

This is so fundamental to Halo combat. I truly can't believe they're messing with it.

Edit : Edited to make more sense, maybe.
 
I'm totally with you on Specializations, Ghaleon.

Even the simple scenario of a 1v1 encounter could be radically changed. You're fighting someone, they pop your shields, and one second later they pop yours. You both retreat and wait for your shields to recharge. You know that your shields popped right before theirs, so as soon as you get some shields back, you jump out to finish them off before theirs come back. But LOL GUESS WHAT, they have the faster shield regen specialization, and are already at full shields again.

This is so fundamental to Halo combat. I truly can't believe they're messing with it.
You retreat from a fight if you've downed a guy's shields first?
 

heckfu

Banned
Finally got to see the MP videos. Holy cow I like the look of what I'm seeing. I'll do a full write up of impressions when im at my place but the quick and dirty is that I'm really, really excited about this game.
 

Havok

Member
Things I Am So Worried About I Thing It Will Wreak Wreck Multiplayer For Me

-The 3x scope on the DMR. I've said lots about this. Won't repeat it here, but about half my hopes for Halo 4 BTB went down the tubes when the 3x scope was confirmed. I will be shocked if this does not drive me away from BTB in the game. I hope I'm wrong.

-Specializations.

I think it was Kiki who said Specializations are less about giving players a big advantage and more about letting players pick abilities that cater to their play style and role on the battlefield. This terrifies me. Here's why.
I agree with you on specializations, if not for the same reasons. I'm more concerned about predictability of engagements being drastically changed. A classic antisniper tactic is to flank him and whack him while he's in scope and can't see you coming. Without any way to tell that he has a radar in scope, you might be making a fatal error as you do so. A mutual shield break sometimes results in both players falling back momentarily to regain some portion of shields, and with fast regen perks, you might be completely screwing yourself out of a kill by not following up immediately with no way to tell that you're doing something wrong, just speculation that he might have a leg up on you. This was already an issue with armor abilities, but specializations are so much more nuanced and numerous that it has me worried.

With the DMR and BTB, this is something that I can't imagine they haven't accounted for. Good BTB map design alone, which we both know Reach was sorely lacking, could make a world of difference. With Reach, we weren't really able to see how a proper map designed around the DMR would function. Hemmorhage and Ridgeline were both restricted by virtue of having to be faithful to the originals (to their own detriment, in a lot of respects), and I can't say that I find other maps like Highlands particularly well designed in general. At this point, we have no idea if the shot travels to a practically infinite range like the Reach DMR, and adjusting ranges of effective aim assist is another possible tweak. This is one of the few areas that I have a reasonable amount of blind faith in.

Every bit of bitching I have seen from you guys can be summed up as "Oh no, these new things put me out of my Halo comfort zone."

Adapt. Change up your game. Armor Abilities in Reach forced you to change your play style a bit I'm sure. This is the next step. I honestly see no issues here, and definitely nothing to be even a little concerned about.
Why do people continue to ignore the hundreds of thousands of words that have been posted in these threads for the last two years in discussion of how new gameplay elements worked and did not work in the context of the classic Halo formula and refuse to see how this might somehow be applicable to the new game that we have extraordinarily little information about? Is it deliberate ignorance?
 
!!!!!!

Something that I just recalled because of Ghaleon's mention of sound design is that sprint no longer has that huffing and puffing attached to it. More the rustling of all your gear and your footsteps. Fuck yes, thank you so much for that 343. If there's one thing I'm super happy about so far, it's that.
 
Every bit of bitching I have seen from you guys can be summed up as "Oh no, these new things put me out of my Halo comfort zone."

Adapt. Change up your game. Armor Abilities in Reach forced you to change your play style a bit I'm sure. This is the next step. I honestly see no issues here, and definitely nothing to be even a little concerned about.
 
In Halo games, going into a game solo and getting matched against a party - particularly a decently coordinated party - pretty much means you are doomed. Even a little coordination is enough to help a team wipe the floor against a pack of randoms. And the Halo games are generally very bad about matching solo players with parties. I play solo 90% of the time, and in Halo 3 and Reach, that meant bad things pretty often.

The addition of custom load outs and the specializations is going to dramatically accentuate that party advantage. The dude that grabs sniper is going to have the radar when scoped. The guy protecting the base is going to have Promethean Vision, plasma grenades and a rapidly recharging shield. Guys pinning you down in your base are going to spawn with tons of ammo. And so on.

Coordinated teams are going to coordinate their load outs, tactical and support packages and (where available) ordnance drops to absolutely obliterate randoms. HaloGAF parties will love it - many a 50-0 Slayer or 3-0 CTF match will result.

Parties and groups are going to love it. But as one of those guys going into matchmaking solo, I hope to hell that Halo 4 never matches me against a party, because they're going to roll over randoms like never before.

Under no circumstances should full parties be matching up against individuals.

There was another from e3, which was infinite sprint, which I used. I know there were more as well. If I remember correctly, each had 4 things.

Ah, interesting. I just took them from the Halo 4 website because pretty much everything else there matches up with what was at E3.

Did something tonight I haven't done in years in Halo MP. Searched alone in ranked Halo 3.

Started off in MLG. First game the other team was AFK on Onslaught flag. De-rankers of course. Get an in game message saying "if you don't cap the flags we quit." Second game...the same thing except they suicide the whole game.

Tried TD's.....teammate quits 10 seconds into the match. He was a 50 with thousands of games played.

So lets try TS. My teammates combine for a total score of -26.

I can't imagine playing Halo MP alone all the time. It's brutal.

Nice to see people realize that quitting and the game being often nightmarish playing by yourself wasn't invented in Reach. It was just as bad in previous games.

You retreat from a fight if you've downed a guy's shields first?

Yeah, seriously Kittens, if you have the guy no shields, kill him, don't retreat.
 

Fracas

#fuckonami
Every bit of bitching I have seen from you guys can be summed up as "Oh no, these new things put me out of my Halo comfort zone."

Adapt. Change up your game. Armor Abilities in Reach forced you to change your play style a bit I'm sure. This is the next step. I honestly see no issues here, and definitely nothing to be even a little concerned about.

Reach introduced several game ruining features. Armor abilities contributed heavily to Reach's poor quality.

Halo 4 has even more armor abilities.

I'm not supposed to be worried at all?
 
Every bit of bitching I have seen from you guys can be summed up as "Oh no, these new things put me out of my Halo comfort zone."

Adapt. Change up your game. Armor Abilities in Reach forced you to change your play style a bit I'm sure. This is the next step. I honestly see no issues here, and definitely nothing to be even a little concerned about.

"Everything is great, you guys are afraid of change, shut up"

Great post. Keep it up, bro.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom