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[daedalius]

If you look at reach, the only AA that required the button to be held down was jetpack (I don't acknowledge armor lock as an AA), meaning all other AA's work on a toggle. As a bumper jumper user, I feel sprint works very well on X. All I need to do is tap the button once. It's analogous to jump on A; all other control schemes have you move your right thumb off of the stick to tap A, and you do it very often throughout the game.

So far in Halo 4, every AA works on a toggle (since jetpack hasn't been shown yet) and therefore would work perfectly fine on a face button. I like to reserve the triggers and bumpers for things I want to do while aiming, like shooting, nadeing, jumping and punching. I really don't need to look around to tap a button to sprint.

Agree with all of this, I really want AA/Sprint on face buttons for H4.

Please don't wreck my bumper jumper. I mean, the main things are Jump/Nade on the left and melee/shoot on the right; I can adjust to everything else.

 

[Ryaaan14]

It wasn't design at all though, but I wouldn't take the developer's word as the final on whether or not it's competitively viable. Though I think crafty developers take these aspects that come out as bugs and try to incorporate them as more legitimized features later on, but I don't know how you'd make button combos as they appeared in Halo 2 as a designed mechanic.

I know it wasn't design, but people here are saying they want shit like this in Halo, which WOULD be. If Bungie loved the idea of it, they wouldn't have removed it in the first place is what I'm saying.

 

[AusQB]

I heard 20-30 hours depending on what choices to make in campaign and what characters you kill off.

I heard that one of the factions you side with offers significantly more content than the others.

 

[Steelyuhas]

If you look at reach, the only AA that required the button to be held down was jetpack (I don't acknowledge armor lock as an AA), meaning all other AA's work on a toggle. As a bumper jumper user, I feel sprint works very well on X. All I need to do is tap the button once. It's analogous to jump on A; all other control schemes have you move your right thumb off of the stick to tap A, and you do it very often throughout the game.

So far in Halo 4, every AA works on a toggle (since jetpack hasn't been shown yet) and therefore would work perfectly fine on a face button. I like to reserve the triggers and bumpers for things I want to do while aiming, like shooting, nadeing, jumping and punching. I really don't need to look around to tap a button to sprint.

Whatever works for different folks. I can't do sprint of other AAs on the face buttons personally, it just doesn't feel comfortable for me.

 

[Silphonica]

I know it wasn't design, but people here are saying they want shit like this in Halo, which WOULD be. If Bungie loved the idea of it, they wouldn't have removed it in the first place is what I'm saying.

Just because Bungie didn't want it doesn't class it as game-breaking nor does it detract any skill from it in the first place.

 

[Glorified G]

I heard 20-30 hours depending on what choices to make in campaign and what characters you kill off.

Holy shit, that's insane. The previous Halo's were barely even half that. Is 343 really being that ambitious with the campaign?

 

[Zoso Achilles]

Whatever works for different folks. I can't do sprint of other AAs on the face buttons personally, it just doesn't feel comfortable for me.

As long as they have suitable options for everyone and don't alienate groups that have been using the same controls for years. Controls is one area where they literally can cater to everyone if they wanted to.

 

[daedalius]

Holy shit, that's insane. The previous Halo's were barely even half that. Is 343 really being that ambitious with the campaign?

He's kidding

I'd say 8-12 depending on difficulty. If its longer than that I'll be surprised.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Holy shit, that's insane. The previous Halo's were barely even half that. Is 343 really being that ambitious with the campaign?

lol, he's trolling tough.

We have no idea how long the campaign is, but it's certainly not that haha.

As long as they have suitable options for everyone and don't alienate groups that have been using the same controls for years. Controls is one area where they literally can cater to everyone if they wanted to.

Yep

 

[Glorified G]

He's kidding

I'd say 8-12 depending on difficulty. If its longer than that I'll be surprised.

lol, he's trolling tough.

We have no idea how long the campaign is, but it's certainly not that haha.

Yeah, I figured. I was hoping something about the length was leaked during e3.

 

[Ryaaan14]

If you can't do it, learn to do it. Like any skill in any game or sport ever. Definitely not game breaking.

Also fps games revolve heavily around reflexes, even non-swat gametypes. With poor reflexes you can't maximise your aim supplemented by good map position and movement.

What is your idea of game breaking?

Because game breaking to me, is when I go and buy a game because of the content it provides, and when an exploit is discovered that gives players a serious advantage, it is not what I signed up for to go practice these combos for hours and hours on end just to meet the level of competition. It is a clear cut balance issue. It's the same reason many tweaks were made to maps in Halo 3 to prevent map exploits. Hopping into the upper level on The Pit, as well as camping under the ramp for example. Players weren't on the same playing field unless they could master these things, but why should they? They shouldn't, so it was fixed.

Until a game adds button combos as a bulletpoint on their game and actually sells that to you, get that shit out of here. That way I can decide if I want to be participating.

 

[AusQB]

Just because Bungie didn't want it doesn't class it as game-breaking nor does it detract any skill from it in the first place.

If it was hypothetically put in Halo 4 by design then of course it would require skill, but it's ridiculous and doesn't belong in the game.

 

[Der Flatulator]

Most of the time when I play Halo I rarely have to worry about players that are crouching. And I actually really like the new icons for the elevation on the radar... the shading differentiation of Reach was easy to misread at times. I'd rather have another AA rather than something that only gives additional information in special circumstances.

Definitely. Nowhere NEAR complete, but as you guys were talking about control schemes and I had it at a functional stage (at 4am, and I needed sleep) I thought I'd throw it on my server.

I am planning on adding a primary drop down for games (Stick with the popular shooters, I think), and a secondary for the control layouts that ship with that game, and the ability to start with blank tiles and edit them on double click.

 

[Silphonica]

What is your idea of game breaking?

Because game breaking to me, is when I go and buy a game because of the content it provides. When an exploit is discovered that gives players a serious advantage, it is not what I signed up for to go practice these combos for hours and hours on end just to meet the level of competition. It is a clear cut balance issue. It's the same reason many tweaks were made to maps in Halo 3 to prevent map exploits. Hopping into the upper level on The Pit, as well as camping under the ramp for example. Players weren't on the same playing field unless they could master these things, but why should they? They shouldn't, so it was fixed.

Until a game adds button combos as a bulletpoint on their game and actually sells that to you, get that shit out of here. That way I can decide if I want to be participating.

Button combos added a layer of depth and skill to the game. It did not prevent you from playing the game though.

If someone went into the above room on the pit, it removed them from the game boundaries, preventing people from killing him. Totally different class of example here.

Some glitches are game-breaking, some are not. Button combos were not game-breaking.

A good example of game-breaking. Next time on sandtrap, drive the elephant over the downed phantom until you full mount it. The FPS will drop to about 10 or something, for everyone, constantly until the elephant is back on flat land.

That is game breaking.

 

[Rickenslacker]

What is your idea of game breaking?

Because game breaking to me, is when I go and buy a game because of the content it provides. When an exploit is discovered that gives players a serious advantage, it is not what I signed up for to go practice these combos for hours and hours on end just to meet the level of competition. It is a clear cut balance issue. It's the same reason many tweaks were made to maps in Halo 3 to prevent map exploits. Hopping into the upper level on The Pit, as well as camping under the ramp for example. Players weren't on the same playing field unless they could master these things, but why should they? They shouldn't, so it was fixed.

Until a game adds button combos as a bulletpoint on their game and actually sells that to you, get that shit out of here. That way I can decide if I want to be participating.

Your definition of game breaking is simply what was not intentionally designed by developers, so most long standing highly competitive titles would be broken under those constraints. I don't think it's a black and white case that you can appeal to authority with Bungie not intentionally incorporating the bug in later titles.

I don't mind button combos even though I can't use them for shit (hell, I am making a fuss about these control schemes simply because I think clawing for anything is dumb as hell), but if you were to ask me what I would consider game breaking within the context of Halo 2 bugs I'd say look no further than super jumping.

Though like I said, it's a judgement call. The same reasons I'd give for button combos being that everyone can use them can be applied to super jumping, but one provides an extra layer to combat scenarios while the other literally breaks the confines of the maps.

 

[Ryaaan14]

Button combos added a layer of depth and skill to the game. It did not prevent you from playing the game though.

If someone went into the above room on the pit, it removed them from the game boundaries, preventing people from killing him. Totally different class of example here.

Some glitches are game-breaking, some are not. Button combos were not game-breaking.

A good example of game-breaking. Next time on sandtrap, drive the elephant over the downed phantom until you full mount it. The FPS will drop to about 10 or something, for everyone, constantly until the elephant is back on flat land.

That is game breaking.

Your definition of game breaking is simply what was not intentionally designed by developers, so most long standing highly competitive titles would be broken under those constraints. I don't think it's a black and white case that you can appeal to authority with Bungie not intentionally incorporating the bug in later titles.

I don't mind button combos even though I can't use them for shit (hell, I am making a fuss about these control schemes simply because I think clawing for anything is dumb as hell), but if you were to ask me what I would consider game breaking within the context of Halo 2 bugs I'd say look no further than super jumping.

Though like I said, it's a judgement call. The same reasons I'd give for button combos being that everyone can use them can be applied to super jumping, but one provides an extra layer to combat scenarios while the other literally breaks the confines of the maps.

All this talk about layered gameplay, and I think back to when I was pleading my case for the AR as a starting weapon being a good idea because it layered the gameplay.

Let's just blame layers for everything we all hate.

 

[AusQB]

Let's just blame layers for everything we all hate.

I hate onions.

 

[Silphonica]

I'm not asking for them back, I'm used to not having them. It doesn't bother me.

They were amazing and did a lot for Halo, I'll defend that stance.

 

[Der Flatulator]

RT: Settings/Loadouts
RB: Scope
RS: Jump

LT: Score board
LB: Crouch
LS: Switch Weapon

A: Sprint
B: Use AA
X: Reload/Action
Y: Switch Grenade

DP: Melee
BACK: Throw Grenade
START: Fire

Checking your score and look sensitivity are important, yo.

I'm sitting in my chair chuckling like an old man.

PC map editor with Cortana Web as the interface to transfer maps made on the PC to the Xbox confirmed. Probably more accurate is Cortana Web being the new filesharing system. It has been said that customization is a big goal. What is more customizable than maps?

Side note, I'm a member now.

Nice. Cortana web is actually an internal data mining tool that they are developing though. Remember that weird graph from a bulletin a couple of months ago?

 

[kittens]

343, go with full Kinect controls to avoid button glitches. It's the only way.

 

[Booshka]

343, go with full Kinect controls to avoid button glitches. It's the only way.

Thread Title: Game breaking?
Subject: My cat jumped in front of the sensor and it caused my BR to double-shot

 

[Ryaaan14]

Thread Title: Game breaking?
Subject: My cat jumped in front of the sensor and it caused my BR to double-shot

And suddenly all MLG players own circus cats.

 

[Das Kalk]

343, go with full Kinect controls to avoid button glitches. It's the only way.

XBOX! PEW PEW PEW!

 

[feel]

Dammit, missed my opportunity to ask David Ellis if he hates me.

 

[Louis Wu]

Going to bed, will post this at HBO tomorrow, but I thought it might be useful if anyone wants to see all the questions and answers David Ellis answered tonight. Struggled with how to present the data, decided that GAF-formatted posts made the most sense. (Removed all javascript and GAF-hosted assets, but the links still work.)

http://halo.bungie.org/misc/neogaf_lybertyboy_minih4_qa.html

 

[G17]

I've never seen this Halo montage before..but it's just an amazing look back at Halo 2.

www.youtube.com/watch?v=_4p6P7kPGIk

 

[Der Flatulator]

I was going to mention it earlier, but I think I forgot.

In one of the MLG vids (one with Dev commentary, Infinity Slayer on Haven), a player hits 5 kills, "Ordnance ready!!!", the DPAD takes up the entire center of his screen, and as he was in the middle of battle he pretty quickly died. As D-PAD-UP isn't used, how about linking that to "collapse" or "hide" the ordnance selection menu to the HUD. Perhaps a small notification below the radar, DPAD UP again would bring the menu back, and all the L&R would revert to being for Nade switching, whilst the HUD element is hidden.
Good idea?
Before:

After D-PAD-UP:

 

[Mister Negative]

I'd like to commend Karen Traviss for making Halsey an unlikeable character.

 

[AusQB]

In one of the MLG vids (one with Dev commentary, Infinity Slayer on Haven), a player hits 5 kills, "Ordnance ready!!!", the DPAD takes up the entire center of his screen, and as he was in the middle of battle he pretty quickly died. As D-PAD-UP isn't used, how about linking that to "collapse" or "hide" the ordnance selection menu to the HUD. Perhaps a small notification below the radar, DPAD UP again would bring the menu back, and all the L&R would revert to being for Nade switching, whilst the HUD element is hidden.
Good idea?

I think I'd like it if it was hidden by default and you had to press D-UP to show it.

 

[Homeboyd]

I was going to mention it earlier, but I think I forgot.

In one of the MLG vids (one with Dev commentary, Infinity Slayer on Haven), a player hits 5 kills, "Ordnance ready!!!", the DPAD takes up the entire center of his screen, and as he was in the middle of battle he pretty quickly died. As D-PAD-UP isn't used, how about linking that to "collapse" or "hide" the ordnance selection menu to the HUD. Perhaps a small notification below the radar, DPAD UP again would bring the menu back, and all the L&R would revert to being for Nade switching, whilst the HUD element is hidden.
Good idea?
Before:

After D-PAD-UP:

Seems reasonable to me.

 

[indubitably]

After trying both Default and Recon for Halo 4, I'd like this control scheme added or replaced for Bumper Jumper:

LT - Grenade
LB - Jump
LS - Crouch
RT - Shoot
RB - Melee
RS - Zoom
X - Armor Ability
B - Reload
Y - Switch Weapon
A - Sprint
D-pad UP - Switch Grenade

Seems much better than the current Bumper Jumper to me.

I use bumper jumper right now and I originally thought that this would be my ideal Halo 4 layout, but now I am not sure.

The question you have to ask is: What is more important to have as a shoulder button, throwing a grenade or using an armor ability?

In Reach, I never pick jetpack because of bumper jumper. 343 probably feels that it is more important in Halo 4 to be able to use any armor ability efficiently than it would be to more accurately throw grenades. I can agree with this to some level as I will want to experiment with all of them for a while. This would ensure you can use any AA, but this contradicts the supposed purpose of modifications and armor abilities. They are supposed to support your playstyle, which would mean that you shouldn't have to sacrifice your control scheme.

Honestly, I think I am going to have to start out playing either default or recon to see how necessary it will be to aim while using AAs.

 

[Rickenslacker]

I use bumper jumper right now and I originally thought that this would be my ideal Halo 4 layout, but now I am not sure.

The question you have to ask is: What is more important to have as a shoulder button, throwing a grenade or using an armor ability?

In Reach, I never pick jetpack because of bumper jumper. 343 probably feels that it is more important in Halo 4 to be able to use any armor ability efficiently than it would be to more accurately throw grenades. I can agree with this to some level as I will want to experiment with all of them for a while. This would ensure you can use any AA, but this contradicts the supposed purpose of modifications and armor abilities. They are supposed to support your playstyle, which would mean that you shouldn't have to sacrifice your control scheme.

Honestly, I think I am going to have to start out playing either default or recon to see how necessary it will be to aim while using AAs.

Grenade. It's an integral combat skill that's tied to aim, AAs aren't as far as I can tell from what is currently shown in 4 and experiences in Reach. Jetpack is the stupid odd AA out and I think deserves to have an exception with the jump button rather than throwing grenades under the bus.

 

[Mister Negative]

I use bumper jumper right now and I originally thought that this would be my ideal Halo 4 layout, but now I am not sure.

The question you have to ask is: What is more important to have as a shoulder button, throwing a grenade or using an armor ability?

In Reach, I never pick jetpack because of bumper jumper. 343 probably feels that it is more important in Halo 4 to be able to use any armor ability efficiently than it would be to more accurately throw grenades. I can agree with this to some level as I will want to experiment with all of them for a while. This would ensure you can use any AA, but this contradicts the supposed purpose of modifications and armor abilities. They are supposed to support your playstyle, which would mean that you shouldn't have to sacrifice your control scheme.

Honestly, I think I am going to have to start out playing either default or recon to see how necessary it will be to aim while using AAs.

Grenade. I can't imagine throwing a grenade without being able to aim.

 

[AusQB]

Grenade. It's an integral combat skill that's tied to aim, AAs don't as far as I can tell from what is currently shown in 4 and experiences in Reach. Jetpack is the stupid odd AA out and I think deserves to have an exception with the jump button rather than throwing grenades under the bus.

Personally I will always stick to the traditional scheme of right trigger to shoot and left trigger for grenades. I can't possibly imagine playing any other way.

 

[Booshka]

It'd be nice if you could custom map you're two shoulder buttons and Left Trigger in game. That way if you pick up an ability you want on a shoulder button, you could shuffle it around.

 

[indubitably]

Grenade. It's an integral combat skill that's tied to aim, AAs aren't as far as I can tell from what is currently shown in 4 and experiences in Reach. Jetpack is the stupid odd AA out and I think deserves to have an exception with the jump button rather than throwing grenades under the bus.

I think 343 is going to pushing them to be accepted as part of standard Halo combat now. Besides, Halo 3's default had melee as B, they could fit both grenade and AA on the shoulders if they do that.

 

[Einchy]

Domino Theory's Bumper Jumper seems perfect, hopefully they listen to the feedback and change it for launch.

 

[AusQB]

I think 343 is going to pushing them to be accepted as part of standard Halo combat now. Besides, Halo 3's default had melee as B, they could fit both grenade and AA on the shoulders if they do that.

Trying to melee without being able to look at the same time was terrible. The move to RB made close quarters combat more fluid and I like it that way. The default Reach control scheme was perfect in my opinion.

 

[Mister Negative]

Domino Theory's Bumper Jumper seems perfect, hopefully they listen to the feedback and change it for launch.

Let's be honest, a good portion of the Halo populace that uses Bumper Jumper isn't exactly concerned with using their AAs. Many of them would probably be more comfortable if they weren't even in the game.

 

[Barrow Roll]

Let's be honest, a good portion of the Halo populace that uses Bumper Jumper isn't exactly concerned with using their AAs. Many of them would probably be more comfortable if they weren't even in the game.

I was an avid Bumper Jumper user in Halo 3, but I switched to default in Reach. Losing my aim for a split second to press A is a minor inconvenience, but not being able to properly utilize every ability in the game was out of the question. AA's are here to stay, I guess you could say I adapted.

 

[Plywood]

get gimped bumper jumpers

trololol

I just wish they would allow for complete control customization instead of choosing a specific setting.

 

[Fracas]

I was an avid Bumper Jumper user in Halo 3, but I switched to default in Reach. Losing my aim for a split second to press A is a minor inconvenience, not being able to properly utilize every ability in the game is was out of the question. AA's are here to stay, I guess you could say I adapted.

Watch your mouth! We don't take kindly to that kind of language 'round these parts.

 

[nomis]

Let's be honest, a good portion of the Halo populace that uses Bumper Jumper isn't exactly concerned with using their AAs. Many of them would probably be more comfortable if they weren't even in the game.

How better to make those players try using their armor abilities more often?

MUAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA /gravemind laugh

 

[FyreWulff]

Some glitches are game-breaking, some are not. Button combos were not game-breaking.

A good example of game-breaking. Next time on sandtrap, drive the elephant over the downed phantom until you full mount it. The FPS will drop to about 10 or something, for everyone, constantly until the elephant is back on flat land.

That is game breaking.

So an exploit that gives one person an advantage is not game breaking, but one that negatively affects the entire game session equally is?

People can go on all day about button combos, but they were not intended for the final game and negatively affected it.

BXR? It let you use a gun that was intended for mid-long range as a CQB weapon that was more effective than the Shotgun. In terms of game design communication, I can be pretty damn sure Bungie intended you to see someone with a BR and go "that person will be more vulnerable at close range". People that didn't want to spend the hours perfecting the glitch would then get frustated and annoyed that attacking a BR user with the proper weapon for the proper situation lost because the other person knew a glitch and you didn't.

Double shot? Gave you the firing speed of the pistol with the power and range of the BR. Once again, negatively affected the sandbox. So now you had a long range rifle that could instantly become a Sword and a Pistol.

It didn't add another layer of skill. It was not discoverable unless you went outside of the game to learn it. It was never fixed because the issue was deeply rooted in their animation system - same reason they didn't fix Superbouncing, because Superbouncing was deeply rooted in that version of Havok. It was just another set of meta-game information that gave jerks an advantage in Halo 2. Also funny how people viewed double meleeing in Halo 2 as a skill (BXB) but feel the slower double melee in Reach is unskilled.

tl;dr The button combos in Halo 2 ruined the entire design language of the BR and other weapons, negatively affected the game's experience online, and even if they were somehow intended (which they were not), would have been poor game design to have an unlearnable mechanic in the game like that.

He was saying entirely the opposite.

Thanks for noticing, just woke up. Reworded for my intended intention.

 

[AusQB]

So an exploit that gives one person an advantage is game breaking, but one that negatively affects the entire game session is not?

He was saying entirely the opposite.

 

[Mister Negative]

I was an avid Bumper Jumper user in Halo 3, but I switched to default in Reach. Losing my aim for a split second to press A is a minor inconvenience, but not being able to properly utilize every ability in the game was out of the question. AA's are here to stay, I guess you could say I adapted.

I was the same for a while, but when I got back into the swing of things in the MLG playlist, I realized that I jump far more often than I need to poke a skittle in order to activate my AA. Back to bumper jumper I went.

It's never a problem, anyway, because I don't use the jetpack. I don't enjoy being the duck in the small game of duck hunt that takes place whenever someone uses it.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Real men play Recon

Real men claw so they aren't held down by silly console button controller schemes in 2012.

 

[Booshka]

So an exploit that gives one person an advantage is game breaking, but one that negatively affects the entire game session is not?

People can go on all day about button combos, but they were not intended for the final game and negatively affected it.

BXR? It let you use a gun that was intended for mid-long range as a CQB weapon that was more effective than the Shotgun. In terms of game design communication, I can be pretty damn sure Bungie intended you to see someone with a BR and go "that person will be more vulnerable at close range". People that didn't want to spend the hours perfecting the glitch would then get frustated and annoyed that attacking a BR user with the proper weapon for the proper situation lost because the other person knew a glitch and you didn't.

Double shot? Gave you the firing speed of the pistol with the power and range of the BR. Once again, negatively affected the sandbox. So now you had a long range rifle that could instantly become a Sword and a Pistol.

It didn't add another layer of skill. It was not discoverable unless you went outside of the game to learn it. It was never fixed because the issue was deeply rooted in their animation system - same reason they didn't fix Superbouncing, because Superbouncing was deeply rooted in that version of Havok. It was just another set of meta-game information that gave jerks an advantage in Halo 2. Also funny how people viewed double meleeing in Halo 2 as a skill (BXB) but feel the slower double melee in Reach is unskilled.

tl;dr The button combos in Halo 2 ruined the entire design language of the BR and other weapons, negatively affected the game's experience online, and even if they were somehow intended (which they were not), would have been poor game design to have an unlearnable mechanic in the game like that.

Made that shit fun though yo.

Off host shotgun was a joke in H2 lol.

 

[FyreWulff]

Made that shit fun though yo.

Off host shotgun was a joke in H2 lol.

I won't deny they were a bit fun to execute. Game would have been much better off without them though.

I'll say it again: you can rearrange the letters in "shotgun" to make "hostgun"

 

[Plywood]

So an exploit that gives one person an advantage is not game breaking, but one that negatively affects the entire game session equally is?

People can go on all day about button combos, but they were not intended for the final game and negatively affected it.

BXR? It let you use a gun that was intended for mid-long range as a CQB weapon that was more effective than the Shotgun. In terms of game design communication, I can be pretty damn sure Bungie intended you to see someone with a BR and go "that person will be more vulnerable at close range". People that didn't want to spend the hours perfecting the glitch would then get frustated and annoyed that attacking a BR user with the proper weapon for the proper situation lost because the other person knew a glitch and you didn't.

Double shot? Gave you the firing speed of the pistol with the power and range of the BR. Once again, negatively affected the sandbox. So now you had a long range rifle that could instantly become a Sword and a Pistol.

It didn't add another layer of skill. It was not discoverable unless you went outside of the game to learn it. It was never fixed because the issue was deeply rooted in their animation system - same reason they didn't fix Superbouncing, because Superbouncing was deeply rooted in that version of Havok. It was just another set of meta-game information that gave jerks an advantage in Halo 2. Also funny how people viewed double meleeing in Halo 2 as a skill (BXB) but feel the slower double melee in Reach is unskilled.

tl;dr The button combos in Halo 2 ruined the entire design language of the BR and other weapons, negatively affected the game's experience online, and even if they were somehow intended (which they were not), would have been poor game design to have an unlearnable mechanic in the game like that.