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[Striker]

but by then the game might have gotten a title update, new maps, gametypes would be tweaked, etc., and you shouldn't still be a 50 anyway.

If you want to keep the carrot on a stick thing still active, it should be extremely difficult to get up to a 50, or even the 40's. Once you hit 50, what's the point in playing that playlist? In H3 it didn't matter since your 50 locked but if this was another game, and you're sitting at max rank, why continue playing it? You risk losing it, but you never advance anywhere. That is a major problem.

That is the biggest issue. Not cheaters or anything else. The majority of people got stuck at 35 and didn't understand why.

It was terrible, and why I stopped eventually playing ranked in H3. I would hit 46 in TS and win 20-25 games, rank up to become a 47 eventually, but that next loss - that very next loss, I rank down. And a game without any rank bar (Bungie used this in Halo 2 on B.net, no idea why they stopped), it gave me no idea where I dropped to.

 

[kylej]

On the other hand, 343/Bungie had access to masses and masses of hard statistics that you do not, so I'm inclined to believe them when they say things about such, rather than the anecdotal accounts of a few near the top of the food chain.

I am not inclined to believe anything about matchmaking data when it comes to Bungie or 343.

 

[Risen]

On the other hand, 343/Bungie had access to masses and masses of hard statistics that you do not, so I'm inclined to believe them when they say things about such, rather than the anecdotal accounts of a few near the top of the food chain.

Hard statistics and anecdotal experience are not the issues. The real issue is the reasoning behind changing the system. Essentially, we are told that we can't have nice toys because there are those that would abuse it.

I think that's a poor reason to remove a visible 1-50 rank. It certainly doesn't deal with the heart of the matter, which is the douche abusing it.

It's silly to think that a developer doesn't have the tools to police the cheaters. The banhammer works... and could be expanded to include a specific 360.

Absent of the boosters and cheaters there is very little wrong with it. One could definitely say the H3 system, and its being tied to TrueSkill is flawed... fine, sever it and make it more like H2 with wins and losses being the mover. Tighten TrueSkill match making behind the scenes... and punish the cheaters severely.

Explain to me why this would not work, and why this wouldn't be a better solution in the end.

If you want to keep the carrot on a stick thing still active, it should be extremely difficult to get up to a 50, or even the 40's. Once you hit 50, what's the point in playing that playlist? In H3 it didn't matter since your 50 locked but if this was another game, and you're sitting at max rank, why continue playing it? You risk losing it, but you never advance anywhere. That is a major problem.

I fully realize this is anecdotal... but bear with me... I had a FL with mostly 50's, and most of those with multiple 50's. I did not know a single person who stopped playing a list they enjoyed because of their 50. The only people I knew that would not play in a list for fear of losing a 50, were those that likely WOULD lose there 50 because they were on the bottom end of the skill pool among 50's, or were not really a 50 at all. The one thing that did change a bit, is that my friends may not enter a list without a full party of legit 50's. Even then it was a mixed bag.

What's the point in playing you ask? That depends entirely on the individual... and herein lies the reason why your question isn't a major problem. For every person that wouldn't play on it, there are people that not only would play on it, but have a sense of pride in playing on it frequently, and keeping it.

 

[NobleGundam]

I always thought the Quit Ban should make you sit until the game that you left is over. This way you can "leave for an emergency" or "leave for dinner" or all other manner of excuses the forums come up with, but it would actually punish those players who quit and try to get into another game right away.

If they really wanted to discourage quitting in Reach they should tack on an extra credit deduction for quitting. Make it a full 1/5th of the level you're currently on. IE you could lose up to 100,000 credits or more base on your current "rank".



This NEEDS to be in Halo 4. Pretty please 343?

1st point: I won't stay and watch an entire game while in a penalty box. Might as well turn off my console and restart it to find another game. I may be penalized temporarily unable to search a match but it's worth the wait.

2nd point: I like this a lot actually. Makes sense and I think should be applied depending how many games the player had quit. There are times when unexpected things occur causing us to quit or leave (unintentionally). Discouraging quitting, making players more cautious.

 

[kylej]

Hard statistics and anecdotal experience are not the issues. The real issue is the reasoning behind changing the system. Essentially, we are told that we can't have nice toys because there are those that would abuse it.

I see 1-50 being leveraged as a scapegoat to go to from an austere ranking system to one where everyone feels good about their skill in Halo 4.

I'm not opposed to 1-50 being removed in favor of some other visible ranking system, all I know is that 1-50 worked very well in my experience, and that I haven't seen any legitimate claims against it that any other ranking system wouldn't be subject to.

 

[heckfu]

I see 1-50 being leveraged as a scapegoat to go to from an austere ranking system to one where everyone feels good about their skill in Halo 4.

I'm not opposed to 1-50 being removed in favor of some other visible ranking system, all I know is that 1-50 worked very well in my experience, and that I haven't seen any legitimate claims against it that any other ranking system wouldn't be subject to.

This isn't me being contrary to be contrary, but I don't see the point of a visible system other than a pissing contest. If the 'invisible' system works and I get consistently matched up then I don't care what my rank is.


Well...a little. I care a little. Ok, I care a lot but ideally I shouldn't and should just want clean matches.

 

[kylej]

Well, ranked competition is inherently a dick waving contest. You don't play ranked to hold hands and sing cumbaya, you go in to beat the other team and move up the skill tree.

 

[NobleGundam]

A simple solution for that would be to have your rank continually in flux. Let Waypoint handle the "highest rank ever reached" and use the lobby/game to present the current rank of a player at that exact moment.

Also add in decay to ranks. If a player doesn't play a single game in a three/four week period their rank would start to slowly fade away. Granted this might mean that you lose your precious 50 after 3 months of not playing... but by then the game might have gotten a title update, new maps, gametypes would be tweaked, etc., and you shouldn't still be a 50 anyway.

You just described Arena Ranks. I do not agree. Maybe seasonal players who like this Arena ranked setup may agree, but I don't believe a majority will enjoy this for future halo MP. A lot of changes is needed to fix how broken Arena ranking system is and many turned away from it before.

 

[Risen]

This isn't me being contrary to be contrary, but I don't see the point of a visible system other than a pissing contest. If the 'invisible' system works and I get consistently matched up then I don't care what my rank is.


Well...a little. I care a little. Ok, I care a lot but ideally I shouldn't and should just want clean matches.

I guess my question would be "So what?"

I've seen a ton of posts through the years just like this... it's an e-peen contest therefore it has no merit. It's so intellectually arrogant. As if because it's a pissing contest it is beneath them and therefore should not be present.

I'm not saying we should glorify "pissing contests"... but that's a heart issue as well. There are those that devolve into just this, and those that want a visual representation of their place in the competition, and who wish to see others place as well. The psychology of it is irrelevant to the validity of having the system or not.

Every competition has a ranking. Are those pissing contests as well?

Golf, College Football, Tennis, Swimming, Surfing, Basketball, it goes on and on. All are ranked somewhere... and are ranked based on performance.

 

[GhaleonEB]

It's going to be so awesome when kids join my game and go -10 before quitting.

I still think if you quit a game you should be locked out of team-based playlists until the game you quit is over.

And you lose a chunk of credits, which you would have earned for finishing (scaled based on rank).

And a mercy/forfeit/white flag option so as to not punish teams that get wreaked by quitters. I really hope that makes it into Halo 4.

Wow, 13k cR for Tip of the Spear LASO? You could make .. way more than that just playing Firefight for the same amount of time.

It also appears it's payout has never been increased.. what happened to increased cR payouts? 13k for that long of a level in LASO these days is a joke.

The weekly challenges have reset to their initial Bungie-set payouts. Last week's Firefight one was worth 7,777 cR. I play a lot of Firefight - and only Firefight - and I didn't clear it. But they I didn't push for it, given I get more than that for one game.

I know the entire studio is cracking on Halo 4, and they didn't have time for a playlist update last month so challenges are even further down the priority list. But it would be good if someone would take a look and adjust them back to where 343 had them tracking to. We seem to have cleared the range they had adjusted.

 

[CyReN]

I just want to play and be measured, it isn't about e-peen but giving me motivation to play the game. The daily/weekly on Reach don't do it, along with the jackpot. It gives people who love competitive play desire to get on. It's hard enough to get on Reach to play already, the no ranks killed what was left to play for competitive and casuals players alike.

I do understand there are cheaters, but with that I feel the cheaters won overall if we can't stop it. If I'm in a math class and someone uses a calculator with pre-loaded answers. Does the teacher punish just the kid for his actions or the whole class and remove calculators?

 

[NobleGundam]

My immediate thought was, WhyTF would you roll? Lol
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Mw7iVr5rWQE&feature=youtube_gdata_player
434 is impenetrable. Surrounded by Grunt Watch Dogs and Crawlers n sh*t.

 

[Risen]

I just want to play and be measured, it isn't about e-peen but giving me motivation to play the game. The daily/weekly on Reach don't do it, along with the jackpot. It gives people who love competitive play desire to get on. It's hard enough to get on Reach to play already, the no ranks killed what was left to play for competitive and casuals players alike.

I do understand there are cheaters, but with that I feel the cheaters won overall if we can't stop it. If I'm in a math class and some uses a calculator with pre-loaded answers. Does the teacher punish just the kid for his actions or the whole class and remove calculators?

Yeppers... that's the point. They are goals to attain. The reasoning behind attaining the goal may be different from one person to the next... and the goal may change once it's attained... but removing the system because of cheaters is throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

 

[willow ve]

You just described Arena Ranks. I do not agree. Maybe seasonal players who like this Arena ranked setup may agree, but I don't believe a majority will enjoy this for future halo MP. A lot of changes is needed to fix how broken Arena ranking system is and many turned away from it before.

The difference is that Arena abruptly resets your rank AND takes far too long to show you any sort of rank. A decay over time, while no games are played, is different than a simple reset.

I really dislike the Arena seasons, and the fact that it takes X amount of games over Y amounts days to see a rank, but the underlying ideas can still be salvaged and applied in a more straightforward and visible manner.

 

[heckfu]

Well, ranked competition is inherently a dick waving contest. You don't play ranked to hold hands and sing cumbaya, you go in to beat the other team and move up the skill tree.

I guess my question would be "So what?"

I've seen a ton of posts through the years just like this... it's an e-peen contest therefore it has no merit. It's so intellectually arrogant. As if because it's a pissing contest it is beneath them and therefore should not be present.

I'm not saying we should glorify "pissing contests"... but that's a heart issue as well. There are those that devolve into just this, and those that want a visual representation of their place in the competition, and who wish to see others place as well. The psychology of it is irrelevant to the validity of having the system or not.

Every competition has a ranking. Are those pissing contests as well?

Golf, College Football, Tennis, Swimming, Surfing, Basketball, it goes on and on. All are ranked somewhere... and are ranked based on performance.

Of course they're all pissing contests but they also serve a much more valuable purpose. College football rankings determine bowl bids, payouts, and ultimately titles. Every other sport has a similar way of going about things to determine the end of the season and those ranks have their place but all teams all use that rank to brag about their place in the sport which is a completely valid way of going about things.

The more I'm typing this out and thinking about it, the more I realize my original critique was poorly thought out and didn't see it from every angle. I was wrong and definitely see now that the ranking system IS important regardless if it's Halo or the NFL. I'm at work so I can't flesh out my response more to eloquently describe it, but I think you get the gist.

 

[Beckx]

This isn't me being contrary to be contrary, but I don't see the point of a visible system other than a pissing contest. If the 'invisible' system works and I get consistently matched up then I don't care what my rank is.

The gradations of 1-50 aren't useful for me. But a visible rank system generally is useful, it provides quick information about the skill level of my opponent. I go into SSFIVAE and get an A ranked opponent, I know I'm in for right from the start. It's not critical but it's useful. More so in Halo, where you need to scan several opponents and browsing their service record isn't realistic.

I suppose you could also keep rank invisible and just make K/D show up as part of the initial info you can see when you're browsing players. It's not the best, but is still useful to gauge what you're up against. But I think people would be more up in arms about having sub-1.0 K/D shown than being thrown in lower rank.

 

[NobleGundam]

The difference is that Arena abruptly resets your rank AND takes far too long to show you any sort of rank. A decay over time, while no games are played, is different than a simple reset.

I really dislike the Arena seasons, and the fact that it takes X amount of games over Y amounts days to see a rank, but the underlying ideas can still be salvaged and applied in a more straightforward and visible manner.

If this is a separate playlist and Ranking system that's not broken to Arena style then maybe. But Overall Ranking system? It's difficult to see this work out, b'cuz there are plenty of people who have things to do in life that are away, and coming back to see their rank progress is lowered? Nerd Rage.
If it works out for everyone, then keep it.

 

[daedalius]

It's not... you are brainwashed by a culture that rewards mediocrity and creates a sense of entitlement that produces a situation in which you think you are accomplishing something by seeing a bar move when in fact you are doing nothing at all.

Suckit

:|

Ok.

 

[Zeouterlimits]

I do understand there are cheaters, but with that I feel the cheaters won overall if we can't stop it.

I'd tend to agree with this.

As a matter of comparision, how do CoD & BF3 handle this?
Because surely leaning towards the Starcraft model (which Arena tried to somewhat emulate and fell absolutely flat in its face on many levels) is the way to go.

 

[Risen]

:|

Ok.

Hopefully you didn't take that seriously lol.

 

[Overdoziz]

I'd tend to agree with this.

As a matter of comparision, how do CoD & BF3 handle this?
Because surely leaning towards the Starcraft model (which Arena tried to somewhat emulate and fell absolutely flat in its face on many levels) is the way to go.

BF3 and CoD don't give you a rank at all. CoD doesn't even matches you up by skill at all and BF3 only matches you up by skill (which is a vague number assigned to you that you can only see a few menus deep in the main menu) if you use quick match. Most people just search for servers them selves, though.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

BF3 and CoD don't give you a rank at all. CoD doesn't even matches you up by skill at all and BF3 only matches you up by skill (which is a vague number assigned to you that you can only see a few menus deep in the main menu) if you use quick match. Most people just search for servers them selves, though.

They are vastly different games though I mean the average game of cod or battlefield is the equivalent to BTB in Halo. The leader boards act like a ranking system for those games, you can quickly look at the lobby leader board and see where you sit in relation to the people in your match.

I would love a proper ranking system, even if it was just so I knew I could go in and get tense games, no matter how you swing it, when rank isn't visible people just don't try as much as they would when it is , it affects player behaviour and in my opinion for the most part that's a good thing.

That said if the gameplay doesn't suit competitive play a ranking system is silly, a ranking system with Reach wouldn't make me take the matches seriously, I would rather a game nails the mechanics rather than has a ranking system, I think both would be nice though.

 

[Steelyuhas]

The problem with halo is that you don't join a game and stay with the game until you leave... Like PC shooters

Halo 4 could very well have continuous lobbies.

And a mercy/forfeit/white flag option so as to not punish teams that get wreaked by quitters. I really hope that makes it into Halo 4.

Why would they need that when the team will fill because of JIP?

 

[Tawpgun]

All this points to a need for an in depth multiplayer vidoc.

Based on time before release, we should be in/have had an MP beta by this point. Since there is none all we have is impressions for people who only got a few games in to a particular build of a game.

 

[Hey You]

Why would they need that when the team will fill because of JIP?

I don't think all playlists will have Drop in.

 

[Risen]

Halo 4 could very well have continuous lobbies.

Why would they need that when the team will fill because of JIP?

I get the "fun" of chasing endless bad kids out the door... and I get the fun of joining a game late and slapping the other team for a win... I just HATE joining a game and losing because of a game mechanic rather than my performance.

 

[Tawpgun]

Imagine flag trapping kids on Zealot. They quit out. New ones hop in.

Replacing one problem with another.

 

[ElzarTheBam]

Hopping on H3 in 10 mins, join if you want.

 

[heckfu]

Imagine flag trapping kids on Zealot. They quit out. New ones hop in.

Replacing one problem with another.

That put a smile on my face. Unlimited fodder.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

Halo 4 needs god rays, a little lens flare annndd horizontal lens flare. At least occasionally.


Also, please fix the Halo 4 Jackals eyes. They look better big.

VS

 

[Homeboyd]

Imagine flag trapping kids on Zealot. They quit out. New ones hop in.

Replacing one problem with another.

Aren't most of the H4 maps a bit bigger than smaller maps like Zealot? I thought I remembered reading Adrift was one of the smaller H4 maps, and if that's the case, DIDO/JiP won't be as significant of a factor. Much harder to lock down areas of importance when there's a lot of them on a larger map compared to only a few on smaller maps.

 

[willow ve]

Aren't most of the H4 maps a bit bigger than smaller maps like Zealot? I thought I remembered reading Adrift was one of the smaller H4 maps, and if that's the case, DIDO/JiP won't be as significant of a factor. Much harder to lock down areas of importance when there's a lot of them on a larger map compared to only a few on smaller maps.

Maps can be as large as you want - it still boils down to how big the spawn zones are and where they are located. Look at Battlefield 3 - massive maps, bigger than anything every put into a Halo game... but if you play it right you can quite easily spawn trap an entire time and get endless easy kills.

 

[Gunnerdude]

49-49... Kid lags out on your team in a stale mate, new person joins.... spawns out in the open.... gets blained.... You lost due to join in progress.

Can't wait for that one to come up

 

[Overdoziz]

Aren't most of the H4 maps a bit bigger than smaller maps like Zealot? I thought I remembered reading Adrift was one of the smaller H4 maps, and if that's the case, DIDO/JiP won't be as significant of a factor. Much harder to lock down areas of importance when there's a lot of them on a larger map compared to only a few on smaller maps.

Spawntrapping on Zealot has nothing to do with its size.

If anyone wants to see how broken it is art follow this link: http://www.twitch.tv/cocamola/b/325898815
Go to 20:25.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Look I just want a visual rank. I want to shit on kids. Halo IS about putting two teams up against each other and seeing who wins. Thats entirely what its built around there is like a whole scoring system based on shooting and killing the opponent. If you want to have a fun social time go join Facebook and status update me on what you ate for breakfast. Cause breakfast food is fucking awesome. I like bacon.

Jesus, Halo 5 is just going to just put everyone on the same team. Constantly say all tied up at fun to fun! and you're going to shoot cuddleparties out of your gun. Fuck.

Grow some balls, bring back 1-50. Noone gives a shit about a gold star. I got 100's of gold stars in fourth grade I got stars for wiping my own ass. I want my fucking 50. Fuck.

 

[Risen]

Much harder to lock down areas of importance when there's a lot of them on a larger map compared to only a few on smaller maps.

LOL theoretical post is theoretical. The real world has people spawn trapping on any map, no matter how large... or which game one is playing.

H4 will be no different. Good people/teams will be shooting that spawn moments after someone spawns there... even if that spawn moves dynamically.

 

[Homeboyd]

Spawntrapping on Zealot has nothing to do with its size.

I wasn't speaking specifically to the spawntrapping comment, just that it would be easier to integrate DIDO/JiP on larger maps because there's more space to integrate safe spawn zones. I thought that went without saying, but I should've clarified. The # of these types of spaces are far fewer on small maps like zealot.

 

[Steelyuhas]

I don't think all playlists will have Drop in.

Ah, that's a possibility. If so, it would be a good system to have.

I get the "fun" of chasing endless bad kids out the door... and I get the fun of joining a game late and slapping the other team for a win... I just HATE joining a game and losing because of a game mechanic rather than my performance.

Yeah I understand and agree with that, but personally I feel the good aspects of the system far outweigh the poor ones. Right now if you go into Reach BTB, you literally can't play a game that starts as 8v8 and ends at 8v8. Quitting is an absurdly huge issue, and quitting will continue to happen because every other game on the market has DIDO. People won't change their behavior for one game that's stuck far in the past when it comes to quitting and keeping games full.

Basically, even though it's not perfect, JIP is a must.

 

[Enfinit]

49-49... Kid lags out on your team in a stale mate, new person joins.... spawns out in the open.... gets blained.... You lost due to join in progress.

Can't wait for that one to come up

Good thing drop in/drop out won't be available on all playlists (or so I believe).

 

[Beckx]

Also, please fix the Halo 4 Jackals eyes. They look better big.

Seconded. I like a lot of the redesign; if the eyes were bulbous and 3-4 times bigger I don't think you'd see (as many) complaints.

 

[Tawpgun]

Drop in drop out would ruin objective. People casually quit out with no penalty, team of 4 run the flag back against your team of 2.

 

[Steelyuhas]

Drop in drop out would ruin objective. People casually quit out with no penalty, team of 4 run the flag back against your team of 2.

You mean team of 5?

trollface.jpg
sadly not trolling at all

 

[Portugeezer]

question: this (^) possible in all playlists?

Lol, can't wait to join the losing team just as the game is about to end... and get a loss.

 

[xxjuicesxx]

Feel like DiDo is only in Infinity Slayer.

 

[daedalius]

Halo 4 needs god rays, a little lens flare annndd horizontal lens flare. At least occasionally.


Also, please fix the Halo 4 Jackals eyes. They look better big.

No, they look like bad anime with big eyes.

 

[heckfu]

Feel like DiDo is only in Infinity Slayer.

And Iiiiiiiiiiii wanna thaaaank you, for giving me the best gaaaa-haaayyyyme of my liiiiiife - Dido

 

[Ramirez]

Feel like DiDo is only in Infinity Slayer.

If they don't put it into BTB, then what's the point?

 

[daedalius]

Feel like DiDo is only in Infinity Slayer.

I don't think so.

I'm sure DIDO will likely be in everything except the equivalent of team hardcore, or things like Arena.

 

[IHaveIce]

Hopping on H3 in 10 mins, join if you want.

too late ?

Oh the whole rank discussion is too much for me. I think someone already presented the best designs : the starcraft 2 system or a mixture of 1-50 and arena.. Your 1-50 rank resets after a season, a season = 4 months or something like this.

 

[Plywood]

Fucked up part is... I have an Ex in Florida who looks just like her -.-'
Why Plywood, Why?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5ehyTKWjcY