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Halo |OT6| I will not allow you to leave this thread!

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S

Steelyuhas

Member
daedalius said:
I don't think so.

I'm sure DIDO will likely be in everything except the equivalent of team hardcore, or things like Arena.
Click to expand...

Agreed.

I also don't think that Infinity Slayer will be it's own playlist. It will be gametype in the 'Team Slayer' playlist, and yes it will be voted for 98% of the time.
 
R

Risen

Member
Steelyuhas said:
Yeah I understand and agree with that, but personally I feel the good aspects of the system far outweigh the poor ones.
Click to expand...

What are the "good aspects"?

Shorter MM time?
Games with more people for longer periods of time?
Endless fodder?


Shorter MM time - now there will be more frequent searches for very little net change in total time searching.

Games with more people for longer periods of time - you will still search on reddit out of boredom while you wait for new people to join.

Endless fodder - just means an increase in the amount of quitting.

For those joining in progress... They are spawning into a beating... and are either going to quit immediately, or get dominated, most the time. As the team making others quit, you still don't get a good even match for the entire game, and you now will be joining games in progress where that awful scenario is in place... particularly when searching with a party that is not full.

All that said - I'm not totally against it... I just don't see where the "benefits" outweigh the "costs". Bad kids will quit more often and good kids will rage when they join into a beating... and quit more often. So now people will get selective match making where they choose their own ending. Getting beat? Quit and find another game like kids do in CoD.

Sure one could enforce a quit ban - but is that what a developer REALLY wants? To lock out players from playing their game? Even those that quit frequently? There is a point there where the person just doesn't put the game back in and plays something else where they can play how they wish to their increased enjoyment.
 
H

Homeboyd

Member
Steelyuhas said:
Agreed.

I also don't think that Infinity Slayer will be it's own playlist. It will be gametype in the 'Team Slayer' playlist, and yes it will be voted for 98% of the time.
Click to expand...
I was wondering about this as well. Infinity Slayer and a "classic" version of slayer will already exist. Will there be a "Halo 4 version" of regular team slayer (i.e. without ordance drops), or is that considered the "classic" version? And then from there, how are the separated?

Infinity Slayer hopper with IS only? Slayer hopper with IS, TS, and CS? 2 of 3?

I figured you'd have your Infinity "War Games" mode over here, and the "Classic" hoppers over there, with the subset of appropriate gametypes under each. It still makes for a lot of playlists at launch not even considering the Living Dead, Grifball, Action Sack, Team Snipers, SWAT varieties.

I know they have a plan, I was just trying to guess their methods.
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
Just have something negative happen when you quit. Halo 3 has the best system.

You get EXP if you win nothing if you lose. Promotes winning.
lose exp if you quit.

Easy
 
S

Striker

Member
A27 Tawpgun said:
Just have something negative happen when you quit. Halo 3 has the best system.

You get EXP if you win nothing if you lose. Promotes winning.
lose exp if you quit.

Easy
Click to expand...
On that same token, why should I care about my EXP? It was all just a W/L metric, but really had no sense of value at all.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
Risen said:
What are the "good aspects"?

Shorter MM time?
Games with more people for longer periods of time?
Endless fodder?


Shorter MM time - now there will be more frequent searches for very little net change in total time searching.

Games with more people for longer periods of time - you will still search on reddit out of boredom while you wait for new people to join.

Endless fodder - just means an increase in the amount of quitting.

For those joining in progress... They are spawning into a beating... and are either going to quit immediately, or get dominated, most the time. As the team making others quit, you still don't get a good even match for the entire game, and you now will be joining games in progress where that awful scenario is in place... particularly when searching with a party that is not full.

All that said - I'm not totally against it... I just don't see where the "benefits" outweigh the "costs". Bad kids will quit more often and good kids will rage when they join into a beating... and quit more often. So now people will get selective match making where they choose their own ending. Getting beat? Quit and find another game like kids do in CoD.

Sure one could enforce a quit ban - but is that what a developer REALLY wants? To lock out players from playing their game? Even those that quit frequently? There is a point there where the person just doesn't put the game back in and plays something else where they can play how they wish to their increased enjoyment.
Click to expand...
Playing with the full amount of players is the benefit. That is a massive improvement. Every time I go into BTB, it's like 7v2 by the end of the match. That has to stop.

The amount of DIDO that will happen in each game is overstated as well, with the possible exception of BTB. Using other games as examples, most people play the full game and stay in the lobby for a few games, it's not like it's going to be some insane constantly revolving door where people are literally dropping out of the game every 30 seconds because they got domed.
Homeboyd said:
I was wondering about this as well. Infinity Slayer and a "classic" version of slayer will already exist. Will there be a "Halo 4 version" of regular team slayer (i.e. without ordance drops), or is that considered the "classic" version? And then from there, how are the separated?

Infinity Slayer hopper with IS only? Slayer hopper with IS, TS, and CS? 2 of 3?

I figured you'd have your Infinity "War Games" mode over here, and the "Classic" hoppers over there, with the subset of appropriate gametypes under each. It still makes for a lot of playlists at launch not even considering the Living Dead, Grifball, Action Sack, Team Snipers, SWAT varieties.

I know they have a plan, I was just trying to guess their methods.
Click to expand...

A Team Slayer playlist will probably have Infinity Slayer and "Regular" Slayer. Any "Classic" Slayer gametypes will be in their own Classic hopper that will be dead on arrival.

That's my guess.
 
F

Fracas

#fuckonami
A27 Tawpgun said:
Just have something negative happen when you quit. Halo 3 has the best system.

You get EXP if you win nothing if you lose. Promotes winning.
lose exp if you quit.

Easy
Click to expand...
I'd throw in a credit loss as well.

Also, bringing this back up for the daytime folks. From last night, talking about a potential Forerunner sniper rifle:

monsterfracas said:
Make it function like the plasma pistol (not damage wise). 3 shot kill uncharged (ROF slightly faster than the human sniper, or you can overcharge it like the plasma pistol, and it becomes 1 shot kill, regardless of location. Overcharging it without firing a shot drains energy, just like the PP.

Maybe give it 18 individual bursts, and you'd get 5-6 insta-kills if you charged it all the way. It could also overcharge like the Beam Rifle. Full charge up could take 2-4 seconds.

Disclaimer: this idea is probably terrible.
Click to expand...
 
I

IHaveIce

Banned
Striker said:
On that same token, why should I care about my EXP? It was all just a W/L metric, but really had no sense of value at all.
Click to expand...

I had the feeling exp had an huge impact on your trueskill ranking, if you go up and down.

I remember I played Halo 3 lone wolve till I hit 30.. then I played only social with friends, got a ton of EXP and I couldn't get past 30 even if I won, I had to win a huge amount of games to rank up

edit: I think I misunderstood you guys lol.
 
R

Risen

Member
A27 Tawpgun said:
Just have something negative happen when you quit. Halo 3 has the best system.

You get EXP if you win nothing if you lose. Promotes winning.
lose exp if you quit.

Easy
Click to expand...

Why should I lose XP if I am forced to join a game in which I am definitely going to lose, no matter if I stay or not...? That same game is also one in which I am going to go way negative impacting other meta scores.

So now I'm penalized if I stay... AND penalized if I leave... while having no control over if I am being placed in that game.

Steelyuhas said:
The amount of DIDO that will happen in each game is overstated as well, with the possible exception of BTB. Using other games as examples, most people play the full game and stay in the lobby for a few games, it's not like it's going to be some insane constantly revolving door where people are literally dropping out of the game every 30 seconds because they got domed.
Click to expand...

While I can't place a specific time frame... this is just not born out in other games with join in progress. Games are absolutely a revolving door in those other games. Be it Gears or Call of Duty... the vast majority of games are revolving doors when you are searching with a good team... in EVERY list that the join in progress is available.

Is it possible to initiate games based on party size and still allow join in progress? I would think that would curb some of the quitting in that teams of 4... or 8 in BTB matching with other teams of 8 would be less likely to quit.
 
T

The Henery

Member
A27 Tawpgun said:
All this points to a need for an in depth multiplayer vidoc.

Based on time before release, we should be in/have had an MP beta by this point. Since there is none all we have is impressions for people who only got a few games in to a particular build of a game.
Click to expand...

At this point I'm under the impression that 343 just don't do that sort of thing. This isn't the Bungie days where we got multiple vidocs explaining and visually demonstrating changes to the multiplayer. I'm not sure if MS feels that is a target or should be a focus for 343. It appears to me now that we're getting big budget live-action trailers, CGI trailers and E3 campaign reveals. All to hype but not a lot of substance. Much of the multiplayer info, the community has been left to scrape together from various unreliable sources like the contemptible starving raccoons we are.

A podcast is serviceable (I believe David floated the prospect of one) but it's not really on par with the Bungie model of reveal then explanation in concise, excitable 5 minute vidocs.


Also Halo 4 has to have a wide ranging ranking system. If we don't get one, I'll just write that one off as 343 not having the bottle to cut through the BS on the contemporary FPS market and have a strong unwavering conviction that Halo and its fans deserve a skill based ranking system and no amount of cheaters and crying exp babies should stop that from being so.
 
W

willow ve

Member
thee henery said:
Also Halo 4 has to have a wide ranging ranking system. If we don't get one, I'll just write that one off as 343 not having the bottle to cut through the BS on the contemporary FPS market and have a strong unwavering conviction that Halo and its fans deserve a skill based ranking system and no amount of cheaters and crying exp babies should stop that from being so.
Click to expand...

Along these lines. If we don't get a ranking system due to cheaters/griefers/abusers and etc., that would be tantamount to throwing out the baby with the bathwater.

Competitive ranking, at the core, is good. Don't scrap it entirely like they did with Reach.
 
D

daedalius

Member
Risen said:
Why should I lose XP if I am forced to join a game in which I am definitely going to lose, no matter if I stay or not...? That same game is also one in which I am going to go way negative impacting other meta scores.

So now I'm penalized if I stay... AND penalized if I leave... while having no control over if I am being placed in that game.
Click to expand...

I believe they stated that you can specify if you want to JIP or not.

So if you really don't want to join a game that is already in progress, you can toggle that checkbox so you won't.

I like how open lobbies work, or at least how I think people are referring to them; you have about a 60 second break in between matches where people can join in and get ready for the new match. This is how it works in Space Marine and Crysis 2; not sure about COD since I haven't really played it enough.

Of course they can also join in the middle of the match, but joining in that grace period between matches is probably better for everyone.
 
F

Franklinator

Member
daedalius said:
I like how open lobbies work, or at least how I think people are referring to them; you have about a 60 second break in between matches where people can join in and get ready for the new match. This is how it works in Space Marine and Crysis 2; not sure about COD since I haven't really played it enough.
Click to expand...

CoD is who started that trend, haha. And yeah, I'm fine with that system.
 
N

NobleGundam

Banned
No Goodbyes Armor Lock. Hello Hard Light Shield! Is Crouching possible yet with HLS?
532553_391306940930016_734557151_n.jpg
Click to expand...
 
D

daedalius

Member
Risen said:
I didn't know this had been explained... Hawt... so now I get to chase people out ad infinitum, without having to suffer joining a game that is already lost. Win/win I suppose...
Click to expand...

So are you also fine with joining into a lobby ala-CoD during a 60 second grace period between matches?

Just not joining a game in the middle of a match I guess.
 
FUNKNOWN iXi

FUNKNOWN iXi

Member
Shake Appeal said:
On the other hand, 343/Bungie had access to masses and masses of hard statistics that you do not, so I'm inclined to believe them when they say things about such, rather than the anecdotal accounts of a few near the top of the food chain.
Click to expand...

Not implying anything negative, but both 343 and Bungie have said things to us that make no sense at all, sometimes even contradictory to previous statements or just things to have the fans follow because they said it.

Regarding the ranking system, my issue with using the reason of buying accounts or boosters in favor of not having a ranking system is like making a mountain out of a mole hill. Think about it, people who buy a 50 because they can't get one themself: Do you think they would actually PLAY on that 50? More than likely not.. even if they do, they'll be playing against other 50's/higher ranks and lose, thus balancing itself out because the people who ARE better win the game.
 
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