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Halo |OT6| I will not allow you to leave this thread!

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A

Akai__

Member
FyreWulff said:
Alright, my writeup on the displayed Forge features.


Lighting

This is a very significant improvement, and is a component of the Far Cry editor that has finally made it over to Halo. Forge Objects finally giving and receiving lighting has the following improvements:

- It looks natural and doesn't have that "fake" look
- Player navigation is significantly improved. While you may not notice it, on developer maps your brain uses the shadow directions to help orient yourself. So for example, a symmetrical FW map would be a lot more natural and navigable in the Halo 4 forge. As an other example, if you made maps in TS3 they also had that "all bright all the time look", but it let you set lighting per-tile. I used per-tile lighting to do tricks like a bridge casting a shadow on the tiles below it, and it gave that visual 'pop' to distinguish the map's areas from each other. So full shadows does help players visualize the space in 3D and orient themselves. This feature alone would have been a significant improvement.

What I find interesting is how inside maps will be pulled off. We saw UNLIT variants of pieces, so I wonder if these are special pieces that ignore lighting. Also, like Far Cry, I'd like there to be more explicit control over when the light baking is done. The demo we saw, it was done when you go from Forge -> Player mode, but I wonder how that's handled in a multiplayer session. (client side only?)


Locking, Duping, Highlighting

Holy shit this has been needed forever. In Halo 3 this was especially annoying since you could be holding one object and actually delete another behind it. I've been wanting locking in since Halo 3, and now it's finally there. This will cut down on "oh god I shouldn't have deleted/moved that by accident" scenarios significantly. An example of normal use: set up your base map, lock that bitch, then set up your weapons. Nice. I like the touch of it being on the dpad so you can quickly plop drop and lock pieces.

Duping I don't really have much use for since I have the FW menu etched into my brain, but for the general user this will make building repetitive things like bridges, etc easier. Especially stuff like spawns.

Highlighting is also a significant improvement, especially if you're dealing with a lot of intersecting geometry. Showing the names will also let people more easily discover what piece is what if they load up another user's map in Forge.


Player Trait Zones

This is fairly big. Big big big feature. We never got the ability in a later Forge DLC in Reach to place low-grav volumes, so stuff like Anchor 9 and Condemned's low grav spaces were only for developers to use. But it has more uses than space battles.

Mancannons/base elevators: you'll be able to make something closer to Bungie's semi-scripted mancannons by assinging specific traits to their throw area. No more need for daisy chaning mancannons across a ravine or up a shaft. Example: make an elevator on the back of your base, put a player trait volume inside it that lowers gravity, now you can just put a normal cannon at the bottom and push it all the way up. They also mentioned zones that have the option of having physics impulses, so you can do stuff like Sword Base / Epitaph 's cannons where you can't jump back down the lifts.

The BIG implication that I don't believe has been brought up at all about Player Trait zones: MAP SPECIFIC SETTINGS. Make your map, make a Player Trait Volume that encompasses the entire thing, then set up the traits. MLG map? 110% speed player trait and whatever damage changes they'll inevitably make, automatically there when you load up the map. Remaking a Goldeneye/Perfect Dark map? Turn off jumping for the map - automatically. SWAT map? Players automatically have SWAT settings. No need to hope players download the proper gametype. This is a HUGE feature that I expect to be used a lot. You'll still need gametypes for more advanced stuff like time/score limits and so on. But still.

A feature I would like to see if it's not too late: PTVs that only apply to a certain team. So you could cover an entire map with a Red Team PTV and a Blue Team PTV and Red gets certain traits (speedy, but no shields) while Blue gets certain traits (slow, but highly resistant) for some interesting gametypes and settings.

Magnets

I use the Coordinates system in Reach like it's a religion so I'm already fine with placement options. But this is pretty cool, and has a significant implication: a magnet-piece system works better when all the pieces are fairly symmetrical. The problem we had with quite a few pieces in Reach is they would have been really nice to cut down on object count, but they weren't truly symmetrical. One would think under a magnet system, symmetry would be the imperative so all pieces can properly magnet to each other. I also hope this means the shifting that occurs after saving has been fixed. Magnets won't do shit if your magnetized pieces will shift after you save, and you end up having to go back to coordinates anyway.


Forging space

Looks a bit small. I hope at least one of these places has a fairly large and flat area to make maps in. Forge World was distinctly lacking a space or a piece that was large and perfectly flat. The one we saw looked nice but it didn't seem big enough for BTB. For all complaints people have about FW, it's still unmatched in the sheer scope of maps you can make in it size-wise, even for smaller maps (like remakes of old ones), only FW has enough continual open space to make them in. Hopefully there's at least one of these locations with lots of vertical and horizontal space to construct maps in.

Budget

The Budget seems to be a $1,000,000 now, although that won't mean much since you can't really directly compare each game's budgets with each other. However, I hope they have some method to call out in the UI that when you hit certain budget points, your map may no longer be performant. For example, in Reach, you have lots of budget in FW but you should only never use more than 5,000$ for 'regular' maps, and a bit less if you want it in matchmaking. Halo 3 prevented you from ever really making a map that would threaten 4-split. The bar in Reach for performance was Asylum, but this was never called out in the UI or by 343/Bungie in anyway besides a sideways mention on a forum. The players should be able to make super insane maps if they want. But they should also get an indication of how their map will perform. Basically, "if you want to make a map, stop here. Beyond this, here be tygers". A suggestion I would have: use that remaining budget bar on the UI and color code it for remaining budget levels. If I'm to assume that 500,000$ is the rough equivalent of $5,000 in Reach, then make the bar red once you cross that point.
Click to expand...

Very good writing there, even if I knew more then the half before I read this. Pretty good for people who watched it and which didn't.

Fuck my english. :p
 
N

ncsuDuncan

Member
FyreWulff said:
A feature I would like to see if it's not too late: PTVs that only apply to a certain team. So you could cover an entire map with a Red Team PTV and a Blue Team PTV and Red gets certain traits (speedy, but no shields) while Blue gets certain traits (slow, but highly resistant) for some interesting gametypes and settings.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure I saw the option for assigning Player Trait zones to a specific team as well as setting the spawn time.

Now imagine assigning one of these zones to an object or vehicle...
 
M

MaximumFlipFlop

Banned
I wish 343 would try to go back to the Halo 2 E3 demo human look. I really loved that artstyle back then and still do.
earthcity_colormatte.jpg

6470_medium.jpg
 
G

GhaleonEB

Member
a zoojoo said:
Frankie's fucking dying
Click to expand...

Is there a stream for this? Or is that the Vivaciousjazzy thing?
Ramirez said:
Someone explain to me what those stacked buildings in the sky are supposed to be, never could wrap my mind around it.
Click to expand...

I think it's supposed to be like Deus Ex: Human Revolution's stacked city, but that game pulled it off in plausible fashion. The Halo 2 demo city always looked like it was about to collapse.
 
FUNKNOWN iXi

FUNKNOWN iXi

Member
Vire said:
No Forge maps in competitive playlists period. EVER. If you want it in wacky ones like Action Sack or a Community Playlist - that's fine.

Just keep that crap out of Slayer and Infinity Slayer.
Click to expand...

You don't find that the matchmaking playlists quickly become stale when the same thing is played over and over? What if the other maps aren't that good for competitive play?
 
O

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
Vire said:
Who can't play? :(

Oh well...
Click to expand...

theres just not a lot of overlap in available times. i'll have to double check, but 3v3 should be doable monday/tues/wed - with me missing our first match :(
 
F

Fracas

#fuckonami
Okay guys, team computron is down 2 guys. team joncha is all present. how should we proceed:

Right now, I can sub in for mastrbiggy, and deputymoonman can sub in for fuchsdh.

What should we do?
 
C

CyReN

Member
New Impressions

For btb guys: vehicles seemed stronger, I put 2 sniper rounds into a ghost and it didn't seem to affect it at all. I did talk to a dev about it and they said it was still being tweaked so they might not be as strong, but they should be stronger than reach vehicles. Also, the hog is lower to the ground and is harder to flip. The ghost has an actual boost meter in the top left of the screen. Hardlight shield can be run over and splattered. Plasma pistol still stuns vehicles.

Spartan laser takes longer to charge than in reach. The rockets move really slow and the blast radius seems smaller than reach.

Speed boost is really fast and if you have it, sprint isn't worth using because speed boost is faster than sprint
Click to expand...
 
N

NobleGundam

Banned
Reviewing E3 Campaign: Cryptum is facing directly at the UNSC Infinity, probably b'cuz of Guilty Spark (Chakas), who happens to take control over a ship in Glasslands. The Didact (Bornstellar) is most likely searching for his "essence" on board the downed human vessel.
 
F

Fracas

#fuckonami
Okay, here's our solution:

Thee Henery is asked to sub in for computron's team.

I won't play at all, neither will Deputy Moonman.

Gentleman's rules will be used, 3v3
 
D

Demoncarnotaur

Member
Ah, looks like I tuned in to the end of the panel with Frankie. Anything interesting or fun shared?

FyreWulff said:
Alright, my writeup on the displayed Forge features.


Lighting

This is a very significant improvement, and is a component of the Far Cry editor that has finally made it over to Halo. Forge Objects finally giving and receiving lighting has the following improvements:

- It looks natural and doesn't have that "fake" look
- Player navigation is significantly improved. While you may not notice it, on developer maps your brain uses the shadow directions to help orient yourself. So for example, a symmetrical FW map would be a lot more natural and navigable in the Halo 4 forge. As an other example, if you made maps in TS3 they also had that "all bright all the time look", but it let you set lighting per-tile. I used per-tile lighting to do tricks like a bridge casting a shadow on the tiles below it, and it gave that visual 'pop' to distinguish the map's areas from each other. So full shadows does help players visualize the space in 3D and orient themselves. This feature alone would have been a significant improvement.

What I find interesting is how inside maps will be pulled off. We saw UNLIT variants of pieces, so I wonder if these are special pieces that ignore lighting. Also, like Far Cry, I'd like there to be more explicit control over when the light baking is done. The demo we saw, it was done when you go from Forge -> Player mode, but I wonder how that's handled in a multiplayer session. (client side only?)


Locking, Duping, Highlighting

Holy shit this has been needed forever. In Halo 3 this was especially annoying since you could be holding one object and actually delete another behind it. I've been wanting locking in since Halo 3, and now it's finally there. This will cut down on "oh god I shouldn't have deleted/moved that by accident" scenarios significantly. An example of normal use: set up your base map, lock that bitch, then set up your weapons. Nice. I like the touch of it being on the dpad so you can quickly plop drop and lock pieces.

Duping I don't really have much use for since I have the FW menu etched into my brain, but for the general user this will make building repetitive things like bridges, etc easier. Especially stuff like spawns.

Highlighting is also a significant improvement, especially if you're dealing with a lot of intersecting geometry. Showing the names will also let people more easily discover what piece is what if they load up another user's map in Forge.


Player Trait Zones

This is fairly big. Big big big feature. We never got the ability in a later Forge DLC in Reach to place low-grav volumes, so stuff like Anchor 9 and Condemned's low grav spaces were only for developers to use. But it has more uses than space battles.

Mancannons/base elevators: you'll be able to make something closer to Bungie's semi-scripted mancannons by assinging specific traits to their throw area. No more need for daisy chaning mancannons across a ravine or up a shaft. Example: make an elevator on the back of your base, put a player trait volume inside it that lowers gravity, now you can just put a normal cannon at the bottom and push it all the way up. They also mentioned zones that have the option of having physics impulses, so you can do stuff like Sword Base / Epitaph 's cannons where you can't jump back down the lifts.

The BIG implication that I don't believe has been brought up at all about Player Trait zones: MAP SPECIFIC SETTINGS. Make your map, make a Player Trait Volume that encompasses the entire thing, then set up the traits. MLG map? 110% speed player trait and whatever damage changes they'll inevitably make, automatically there when you load up the map. Remaking a Goldeneye/Perfect Dark map? Turn off jumping for the map - automatically. SWAT map? Players automatically have SWAT settings. No need to hope players download the proper gametype. This is a HUGE feature that I expect to be used a lot. You'll still need gametypes for more advanced stuff like time/score limits and so on. But still.

A feature I would like to see if it's not too late: PTVs that only apply to a certain team. So you could cover an entire map with a Red Team PTV and a Blue Team PTV and Red gets certain traits (speedy, but no shields) while Blue gets certain traits (slow, but highly resistant) for some interesting gametypes and settings.

Magnets

I use the Coordinates system in Reach like it's a religion so I'm already fine with placement options. But this is pretty cool, and has a significant implication: a magnet-piece system works better when all the pieces are fairly symmetrical. The problem we had with quite a few pieces in Reach is they would have been really nice to cut down on object count, but they weren't truly symmetrical. One would think under a magnet system, symmetry would be the imperative so all pieces can properly magnet to each other. I also hope this means the shifting that occurs after saving has been fixed. Magnets won't do shit if your magnetized pieces will shift after you save, and you end up having to go back to coordinates anyway.


Forging space

Looks a bit small. I hope at least one of these places has a fairly large and flat area to make maps in. Forge World was distinctly lacking a space or a piece that was large and perfectly flat. The one we saw looked nice but it didn't seem big enough for BTB. For all complaints people have about FW, it's still unmatched in the sheer scope of maps you can make in it size-wise, even for smaller maps (like remakes of old ones), only FW has enough continual open space to make them in. Hopefully there's at least one of these locations with lots of vertical and horizontal space to construct maps in.

Budget

The Budget seems to be a $1,000,000 now, although that won't mean much since you can't really directly compare each game's budgets with each other. However, I hope they have some method to call out in the UI that when you hit certain budget points, your map may no longer be performant. For example, in Reach, you have lots of budget in FW but you should only never use more than 5,000$ for 'regular' maps, and a bit less if you want it in matchmaking. Halo 3 prevented you from ever really making a map that would threaten 4-split. The bar in Reach for performance was Asylum, but this was never called out in the UI or by 343/Bungie in anyway besides a sideways mention on a forum. The players should be able to make super insane maps if they want. But they should also get an indication of how their map will perform. Basically, "if you want to make a map, stop here. Beyond this, here be tygers". A suggestion I would have: use that remaining budget bar on the UI and color code it for remaining budget levels. If I'm to assume that 500,000$ is the rough equivalent of $5,000 in Reach, then make the bar red once you cross that point.
Click to expand...

Good write up, I really do like the new features, I just hope they find a better way to show them off. Also, I hope they have more than just lighting to help the visuals along, because while thats going to do a ton, being able to choose different colors or texture pallets would also be much appreciated.

sltPoison said:
I wish 343 would try to go back to the Halo 2 E3 demo human look. I really loved that artstyle back then and still do.
earthcity_colormatte.jpg

6470_medium.jpg
Click to expand...

I always loved the look of Halo 2 human architecture.. The look Halo 2 + Halo 3 ODST= awesome. I loved the look of New Alexandria at night in Reach, but I found it incredibly boring looking during exodus.
 
FUNKNOWN iXi

FUNKNOWN iXi

Member
CyReN said:
New Impressions
Click to expand...

So many differing views on the Rocket, although most seem to be that it's slower and weaker than Reach.


My question to everyone in favor of this:

--Why?


Like the grenades, the Rockets have gotten worse and worse from 1-3 (aside from the H2 lock-on), then in Reach they were powerful again. **Think of your opinion on the matter before this spoiler**
Don't you think the Reach Rockets/nades would work well in Halo 4 since the movement speed is faster, the strafing is better, the jump height is higher and now there are things like grenade indicators?
 
M

Mabef

Banned
Demoncarnotaur said:
Ah, looks like I tuned in to the end of the panel with Frankie. Anything interesting or fun shared?
Click to expand...
I didn't hear much Halo stuff. At one point Frankie was asked if it's true that you can both lower weapons and drop them completely, as was said yesterday, and he was a little ambiguous about dropping them. Didn't deny it, though.

Also, the Higgs Boson particle is to be retconned into the story, and Halo 4 will simulate the fourth dimension at 8 frames per second (not too shabby, considering).
 
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