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Halo |OT6| I will not allow you to leave this thread!
- Thread starter The Librarian
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I can't find anything.
The canyon.
orly...
Hydranockz
Member
Over would rather not see Refuge in MM?
Steelyuhas
Member
Except that Refuge should be replacing a Bungie "map". It's a little different.
Ya the pit was human themed aswell as indoors, maybe he just wants yellow pieces in addition to all the grey ones...
The panel yesterday hinted that the one map we saw was the most tame of the Forge maps. I'm guessing we'll see a covenant themed map or something we haven't seen before. I'm still a little bummed we wont have a terrain editor, but with the additions already announced I do have faith this will be a much better Forge in Halo 4. With the dynamic lighting I see no reason why we can't add terrain pieces like hills or trees. If I recall correctly Bungie's reason for not including those items was that the static lighting would make them look too out of place. They never announced tree placement yesterday, but surely they can include that function now. Hopefully we hear more about the new forge features and environments soon. Of course non of this Forge stuff will matter to me if split-screen multiplayer still has the horrendous/unplayable LOD issues like reach did. Dozens of hours making a map only to realize during testing that split-screen multiplayer looks worse than DOOM, killed Reach for my friends and I right there.
Hydranockz
Member
It's really not. Over is a member of the Community. His map is going through all the same channels as other community maps unlike Bungie's maps.
what a discussion :lol
Correct. Or it should be one of the two Forge maps in a playlist.
That's a very interesting tidbit, makes a lot of sense. Trees would be VERY welcome.
Blue Ninja
Member
Maybe, but that's not what we'll be getting.
Hydranockz
Member
Lol, a remake playlis hopefully.
Steelyuhas
Member
I'm aware of that, but are talking about a preexisting situation with Reach versus what we want to see in Halo 4. Bungie decided to have Forge variants be maps for Reach, including Asylum, which is not only a poor remake of Sanctuary, but also an extremely poorly forged map. Refuge is vastly superior as a remake of Sanctuary and performance for a Forged map.
Refuge is trying to help a situation that is already established in Reach, and does not mean the same things apply to what people would like to see in Halo 4's MM.
Alright, my writeup on the displayed Forge features.
Lighting
This is a very significant improvement, and is a component of the Far Cry editor that has finally made it over to Halo. Forge Objects finally giving and receiving lighting has the following improvements:
- It looks natural and doesn't have that "fake" look
- Player navigation is significantly improved. While you may not notice it, on developer maps your brain uses the shadow directions to help orient yourself. So for example, a symmetrical FW map would be a lot more natural and navigable in the Halo 4 forge. As an other example, if you made maps in TS3 they also had that "all bright all the time look", but it let you set lighting per-tile. I used per-tile lighting to do tricks like a bridge casting a shadow on the tiles below it, and it gave that visual 'pop' to distinguish the map's areas from each other. So full shadows does help players visualize the space in 3D and orient themselves. This feature alone would have been a significant improvement.
What I find interesting is how inside maps will be pulled off. We saw UNLIT variants of pieces, so I wonder if these are special pieces that ignore lighting. Also, like Far Cry, I'd like there to be more explicit control over when the light baking is done. The demo we saw, it was done when you go from Forge -> Player mode, but I wonder how that's handled in a multiplayer session. (client side only?)
Locking, Duping, Highlighting
Holy shit this has been needed forever. In Halo 3 this was especially annoying since you could be holding one object and actually delete another behind it. I've been wanting locking in since Halo 3, and now it's finally there. This will cut down on "oh god I shouldn't have deleted/moved that by accident" scenarios significantly. An example of normal use: set up your base map, lock that bitch, then set up your weapons. Nice. I like the touch of it being on the dpad so you can quickly plop drop and lock pieces.
Duping I don't really have much use for since I have the FW menu etched into my brain, but for the general user this will make building repetitive things like bridges, etc easier. Especially stuff like spawns.
Highlighting is also a significant improvement, especially if you're dealing with a lot of intersecting geometry. Showing the names will also let people more easily discover what piece is what if they load up another user's map in Forge.
Player Trait Zones
This is fairly big. Big big big feature. We never got the ability in a later Forge DLC in Reach to place low-grav volumes, so stuff like Anchor 9 and Condemned's low grav spaces were only for developers to use. But it has more uses than space battles.
Mancannons/base elevators: you'll be able to make something closer to Bungie's semi-scripted mancannons by assinging specific traits to their throw area. No more need for daisy chaning mancannons across a ravine or up a shaft. Example: make an elevator on the back of your base, put a player trait volume inside it that lowers gravity, now you can just put a normal cannon at the bottom and push it all the way up. They also mentioned zones that have the option of having physics impulses, so you can do stuff like Sword Base / Epitaph 's cannons where you can't jump back down the lifts.
The BIG implication that I don't believe has been brought up at all about Player Trait zones: MAP SPECIFIC SETTINGS. Make your map, make a Player Trait Volume that encompasses the entire thing, then set up the traits. MLG map? 110% speed player trait and whatever damage changes they'll inevitably make, automatically there when you load up the map. Remaking a Goldeneye/Perfect Dark map? Turn off jumping for the map - automatically. SWAT map? Players automatically have SWAT settings. No need to hope players download the proper gametype. This is a HUGE feature that I expect to be used a lot. You'll still need gametypes for more advanced stuff like time/score limits and so on. But still.
A feature I would like to see if it's not too late: PTVs that only apply to a certain team. So you could cover an entire map with a Red Team PTV and a Blue Team PTV and Red gets certain traits (speedy, but no shields) while Blue gets certain traits (slow, but highly resistant) for some interesting gametypes and settings.
Magnets
I use the Coordinates system in Reach like it's a religion so I'm already fine with placement options. But this is pretty cool, and has a significant implication: a magnet-piece system works better when all the pieces are fairly symmetrical. The problem we had with quite a few pieces in Reach is they would have been really nice to cut down on object count, but they weren't truly symmetrical. One would think under a magnet system, symmetry would be the imperative so all pieces can properly magnet to each other. I also hope this means the shifting that occurs after saving has been fixed. Magnets won't do shit if your magnetized pieces will shift after you save, and you end up having to go back to coordinates anyway.
Forging space
Looks a bit small. I hope at least one of these places has a fairly large and flat area to make maps in. Forge World was distinctly lacking a space or a piece that was large and perfectly flat. The one we saw looked nice but it didn't seem big enough for BTB. For all complaints people have about FW, it's still unmatched in the sheer scope of maps you can make in it size-wise, even for smaller maps (like remakes of old ones), only FW has enough continual open space to make them in. Hopefully there's at least one of these locations with lots of vertical and horizontal space to construct maps in.
Budget
The Budget seems to be a $1,000,000 now, although that won't mean much since you can't really directly compare each game's budgets with each other. However, I hope they have some method to call out in the UI that when you hit certain budget points, your map may no longer be performant. For example, in Reach, you have lots of budget in FW but you should only never use more than 5,000$ for 'regular' maps, and a bit less if you want it in matchmaking. Halo 3 prevented you from ever really making a map that would threaten 4-split. The bar in Reach for performance was Asylum, but this was never called out in the UI or by 343/Bungie in anyway besides a sideways mention on a forum. The players should be able to make super insane maps if they want. But they should also get an indication of how their map will perform. Basically, "if you want to make a map, stop here. Beyond this, here be tygers". A suggestion I would have: use that remaining budget bar on the UI and color code it for remaining budget levels. If I'm to assume that 500,000$ is the rough equivalent of $5,000 in Reach, then make the bar red once you cross that point.
Lighting
This is a very significant improvement, and is a component of the Far Cry editor that has finally made it over to Halo. Forge Objects finally giving and receiving lighting has the following improvements:
- It looks natural and doesn't have that "fake" look
- Player navigation is significantly improved. While you may not notice it, on developer maps your brain uses the shadow directions to help orient yourself. So for example, a symmetrical FW map would be a lot more natural and navigable in the Halo 4 forge. As an other example, if you made maps in TS3 they also had that "all bright all the time look", but it let you set lighting per-tile. I used per-tile lighting to do tricks like a bridge casting a shadow on the tiles below it, and it gave that visual 'pop' to distinguish the map's areas from each other. So full shadows does help players visualize the space in 3D and orient themselves. This feature alone would have been a significant improvement.
What I find interesting is how inside maps will be pulled off. We saw UNLIT variants of pieces, so I wonder if these are special pieces that ignore lighting. Also, like Far Cry, I'd like there to be more explicit control over when the light baking is done. The demo we saw, it was done when you go from Forge -> Player mode, but I wonder how that's handled in a multiplayer session. (client side only?)
Locking, Duping, Highlighting
Holy shit this has been needed forever. In Halo 3 this was especially annoying since you could be holding one object and actually delete another behind it. I've been wanting locking in since Halo 3, and now it's finally there. This will cut down on "oh god I shouldn't have deleted/moved that by accident" scenarios significantly. An example of normal use: set up your base map, lock that bitch, then set up your weapons. Nice. I like the touch of it being on the dpad so you can quickly plop drop and lock pieces.
Duping I don't really have much use for since I have the FW menu etched into my brain, but for the general user this will make building repetitive things like bridges, etc easier. Especially stuff like spawns.
Highlighting is also a significant improvement, especially if you're dealing with a lot of intersecting geometry. Showing the names will also let people more easily discover what piece is what if they load up another user's map in Forge.
Player Trait Zones
This is fairly big. Big big big feature. We never got the ability in a later Forge DLC in Reach to place low-grav volumes, so stuff like Anchor 9 and Condemned's low grav spaces were only for developers to use. But it has more uses than space battles.
Mancannons/base elevators: you'll be able to make something closer to Bungie's semi-scripted mancannons by assinging specific traits to their throw area. No more need for daisy chaning mancannons across a ravine or up a shaft. Example: make an elevator on the back of your base, put a player trait volume inside it that lowers gravity, now you can just put a normal cannon at the bottom and push it all the way up. They also mentioned zones that have the option of having physics impulses, so you can do stuff like Sword Base / Epitaph 's cannons where you can't jump back down the lifts.
The BIG implication that I don't believe has been brought up at all about Player Trait zones: MAP SPECIFIC SETTINGS. Make your map, make a Player Trait Volume that encompasses the entire thing, then set up the traits. MLG map? 110% speed player trait and whatever damage changes they'll inevitably make, automatically there when you load up the map. Remaking a Goldeneye/Perfect Dark map? Turn off jumping for the map - automatically. SWAT map? Players automatically have SWAT settings. No need to hope players download the proper gametype. This is a HUGE feature that I expect to be used a lot. You'll still need gametypes for more advanced stuff like time/score limits and so on. But still.
A feature I would like to see if it's not too late: PTVs that only apply to a certain team. So you could cover an entire map with a Red Team PTV and a Blue Team PTV and Red gets certain traits (speedy, but no shields) while Blue gets certain traits (slow, but highly resistant) for some interesting gametypes and settings.
Magnets
I use the Coordinates system in Reach like it's a religion so I'm already fine with placement options. But this is pretty cool, and has a significant implication: a magnet-piece system works better when all the pieces are fairly symmetrical. The problem we had with quite a few pieces in Reach is they would have been really nice to cut down on object count, but they weren't truly symmetrical. One would think under a magnet system, symmetry would be the imperative so all pieces can properly magnet to each other. I also hope this means the shifting that occurs after saving has been fixed. Magnets won't do shit if your magnetized pieces will shift after you save, and you end up having to go back to coordinates anyway.
Forging space
Looks a bit small. I hope at least one of these places has a fairly large and flat area to make maps in. Forge World was distinctly lacking a space or a piece that was large and perfectly flat. The one we saw looked nice but it didn't seem big enough for BTB. For all complaints people have about FW, it's still unmatched in the sheer scope of maps you can make in it size-wise, even for smaller maps (like remakes of old ones), only FW has enough continual open space to make them in. Hopefully there's at least one of these locations with lots of vertical and horizontal space to construct maps in.
Budget
The Budget seems to be a $1,000,000 now, although that won't mean much since you can't really directly compare each game's budgets with each other. However, I hope they have some method to call out in the UI that when you hit certain budget points, your map may no longer be performant. For example, in Reach, you have lots of budget in FW but you should only never use more than 5,000$ for 'regular' maps, and a bit less if you want it in matchmaking. Halo 3 prevented you from ever really making a map that would threaten 4-split. The bar in Reach for performance was Asylum, but this was never called out in the UI or by 343/Bungie in anyway besides a sideways mention on a forum. The players should be able to make super insane maps if they want. But they should also get an indication of how their map will perform. Basically, "if you want to make a map, stop here. Beyond this, here be tygers". A suggestion I would have: use that remaining budget bar on the UI and color code it for remaining budget levels. If I'm to assume that 500,000$ is the rough equivalent of $5,000 in Reach, then make the bar red once you cross that point.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
It is the RT podcast, they tend to talk about random stuff a lot.
Don't expect it to turn into a hardcore discussion about framerate and aim assist anytime soon.
EDIT: frank did a funny!
They are actually damn good podcasts, you should listen to them. I don't like RvB but I do like the podcast.
this is a RT podcast, not a Halo panel lol
It is the RT podcast, they tend to talk about random stuff a lot.
Don't expect it to turn into a hardcore discussion about framerate and aim assist anytime soon.
Yeah... I've never actually watched an RT podcast, but I was at least expecting a bit of Halo talk considering Frank is there.
ViewtifulJC
Banned
He's got skillz.
Out the streets of the Ridgemont fo'
Not no bitch and say I still ain't a hoe
Letting ni**az know, everyday of the year
I pimp my pen and I get my point clear
Is there a way to subscribe to a member's posts? Like an opposite ignore...?
You sir, I like you.
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
At least people won't quit out the minute they see someone way above them when MM/True skill is inevitably broke.
Eh, I used to like RvB a fair bit, but they have recently drifted too far from their roots.
Oh I agree 100%, but the podcast especially with Gavin is damn funny.
Poker Face
Member
but people quit when they see inheritors on the opposing team in reach...
the whole "THIS ONLY HAPPENS IN 1-50" argument is awful. people who boost/cheat with 1-50 will do it with credits. people who quit because they see a higher rank will do the same if they see a higher level in reach. the only difference is 1-50 gave you incentive to win and punished you for losing.
MaximumFlipFlop
Banned
Me, I fully agree. Seriously though, I effing loved Halo 2.
The Henery
Member
Hilly terrain would be nice. A map like Valhalla is practically impossible to remake as forge currently stands.
--------------------------------------------
As for that whisper of a ranking system, I feel it misses a vital fundamental point: visible rank (instantly available in the service record) is the great motivator to actually get people to play ranked playlists. Ranked playlists attracted thousands of players each in Halo 3; the sole ranked playlist in Reach is a wasteland.
The reason a small minority of miscreants cheated ranked playlists in Halo 3 is because it was a successful ranking system - successful in that people actually cared about it. That is the number one priority of a ranking system. If nobody cares then nobody will play it and the most sophisticated trueskill system in the world means fuck all if there isn't any players in it.
Fuck human theme. Hate, hate, hate the aesthetic.
Fire all Forge/Community Cartographers.
Where is this beautiful gif from
The Henery
Member
Right now.
I can do it if you like, from UK though (host issues maybe).
Most RT questions are.
Fuck grey, fuck human, all purple Forge sound good?
Brolic Gaoler
formerly Alienshogun
The other problem is that the person can see their rank, so they know how much they have to derank to grief people.
I don't really think there's a "win" here.
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