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Halo |OT7| You may leave, Juices. And take Team Downer with you.

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R

Ramirez

Member
Another info drop, another poorly written article that leaves way more questions than answers. -_-

Deadly Cyclone's slurping is amusing though.
 
nillapuddin

nillapuddin

Member
NubInaTub said:
Ok, so do we have to wear the armor to get the specialization? or can I use any armor and use and specialization that I want?
Click to expand...

Use any armor youd like

During each specialization there is simply an armor set you can unlock, and then unlock multiple cosmetic items (weapon/armor skins, visor color, emblems) then you unlock a perk

Which will be used in the same Tactical or Support slot that was already in your loadout

replacing those like Firepower, Shielding, Ammo, etc
 
K

Korosenai

Member
nillapuddin said:
Use any armor youd like

During each specialization there is simply an armor set you can unlock, and then unlock multiple cosmetic items (weapon/armor skins, visor color, emblems) then you unlock a perk

Which will be used in the same Tactical or Support slot that was already in your loadout

replacing those like Firepower, Shielding, Ammo, etc
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying.
 
R

Ramirez

Member
The only spec that sounded grossly OP to me was the reduced zoom ping effect...

I feel like faster charging shields will be a must, but really I have no idea how these things work and which ones you can pick with one another. ?_?

nillapuddin said:
no problem

heres an example of what your loadout options could potentially look like, if it helps you envision it better

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=41039687&postcount=16965
Click to expand...

Is it confirmed we select our grenade type? Have we learned nothing from Elite Slayer?
 
H

HigherLevel

Member
I don't really get what's wrong with the specializations, it just's the way you unlock stuff we already knew you had to unlock. I feel like people are just getting mad to get mad.
 
nillapuddin

nillapuddin

Member
Ramirez said:
The only spec that sounded grossly OP to me was the reduced zoom ping effect...

I feel like faster charging shields will be a must, but really I have no idea how these things work and which ones you can pick with one another. ?_?

Is it confirmed we select our grenade type? Have we learned nothing from Elite Slayer?
Click to expand...

How the de-scoping works will be very important, I hope its tweakable

As far as which ones you can chose together, you can have a look at my mockup loadout, but like I said on there I guessed where the new ones from tonight go. Im sure we will know tomorrow

And yes grenade type is an option, I can understand the displeasure of the suicide sticking being potentially ever-present, but likely a drop in the bucket


HigherLevel said:
I don't really get what's wrong with the specializations, it just's the way you unlock stuff we already knew you had to unlock. I feel like people are just getting mad to get mad.
Click to expand...

unfortunately your correct, the "early" access concerns me but Im sure it will be okay, all the perks are side grades anyways (potential descoping one aside)
theres no trump card in there

as far as I can tell
 
D

DopeyFish

Not bitter, just unsweetened
HigherLevel said:
I don't really get what's wrong with the specializations, it just's the way you unlock stuff we already knew you had to unlock. I feel like people are just getting mad to get mad.
Click to expand...

I've been holding my anger in until now, and I've been watching everything.

I understood these specializations since SDCC... They really didnt give much info in this release except for some minor specifics.
 
S

Striker

Member
Ramirez said:
Is it confirmed we select our grenade type? Have we learned nothing from Elite Slayer?
Click to expand...
Or Slayer Pro. Still remember people picking the Needler Rifle loadout just to spawn with two plasma grenades.

It should be just frags, but whatever.

v - the "Stalker" one sounds the worst of all. Regen Field types of stupid.
 
O

Omni

Member
I haven't read the last few pages because my internet is laggy and they won't load but...

Stalker: Described by 343 Industries as “Spartan optimization for target shadowing missions which require tactical invisibility despite operating at an extremely close range to the target itself,” the Stalker packs the Nemesis armor mod, a passive skill that, according to Ellis, “Pops up on the HUD an icon of the last person that killed you.” It also tracks enemies who've attacked but not killed you as well, making it useful for both retaliation and revenge. Teams that communicate well can make fantastic use of this perk.
Click to expand...
Egh. Just egh.
 
S

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
DopeyFish said:
I've been holding my anger in until now, and I've been watching everything.

I understood these specializations since SDCC... They really didnt give much info in this release except for some minor specifics.
Click to expand...

Meh. I seldom enter these MP design change panics, having frequented both halo2sucks.com AND DopeyFish posts - and I get you guys are frustrated about how information is parceled out, which is a combination of our schedule, marketing realpolitik and an evolution of the media you read and watch stuff on, but really, this one:

a) will be clarified tomorrow, at least semantically. Experiential clarification requires play, which lots of people including people LIKE YOU have tried and come to the same conclusion as me which is...

b) It affects your style of play far more than the overall playfield. To me - and don't get me wrong, I realize in some playlists people will be tinkering and adjusting until a balance is established - the difference feels akin to changing a control scheme, as opposed to loading out your Defender spaceship with 100 smart bombs.


c) Is super fun and playlist dependent.
 
E

Enfinit

Member
CyReN said:
More people visit IGN than HaloWaypoint site.
Click to expand...
True, but I feel like if information's going to come out, what's better than the official source? Then let IGN and other outlets put their articles out. That way there's no confusion, not to mention it's directly from the developer's mouth instead of having a mediocre journalist misquote him.

Tashi said:
I guess you gotta show the media some love.

edit: Cyren, I think he's saying let Halowaypoint put the info up and then all the media sites will report it. The thing is though that it probably wouldn't get first story on front page of IGN without the exclusive deal made with them.
Click to expand...
If video game journalism is really what IGN cares about, it would make the front page regardless of exclusive deals.

JackHerer said:
Not really. It's about publicity. They will get a more diverse audience by letting IGN cover it. Not everyone who will (or could potentially) buy Halo 4 frequents Waypoint so this actually makes sense. It is annoying though.

Edit: At least clarification will (hopefully) come tomorrow so it's really not that bad as far as that goes.
Click to expand...
IGN can still put out their article, but it should be first to break on Waypoint. Again, that way there's no miscommunication between developer-interviewer-audience, not to mention it gives a nice, solid, credible source for articles to reference to.

xxjuicesxx said:
343 aint its own man.
Click to expand...
tumblr_luo6xmQejN1qho6sdo1_500.jpg
 
H

heckfu

Banned
Stinkles said:
Meh. I seldom enter these MP design change panics, having frequented both halo2sucks.com AND DopeyFish posts - and I get you guys are frustrated about how information is parceled out, which is a combination of our schedule, marketing realpolitik and an evolution of the media you read and watch stuff on, but really, this one:

a) will be clarified tomorrow, at least semantically. Experiential clarification requires play, which lots of people including people LIKE YOU have tried and come to the same conclusion as me which is...

b) It affects your style of play far more than the overall playfield. To me - and don't get me wrong, I realize in some playlists people will be tinkering and adjusting until a balance is established - the difference feels akin to changing a control scheme, as opposed to loading out your Defender spaceship with 100 smart bombs.


c) Is super fun and playlist dependent.
Click to expand...

Thanks for that. I think that will quell a LOT of people's fears nicely.

And I know yall have fielded a fair share of questions today, but can you comment on the specializations availability for the build at PAX you guys will have?
 
H

Havok

Member
Michael Wincott's excellent work in Darksiders 2 as Death really just reminds me what a shame it was that he was replaced as the Prophet of Truth. Fantastic stuff.
 
S

sp3000

Member
DopeyFish said:
Yeah

Just like halo 3

And reach

Which are still shit games in comparison to halo 2

The beauty of that game wasn't about what crappy AA you used, it was about how well you analyzed battlefield flow and engagements.

When you got in a vehicle... It meant something. And you had 3 distinct ways of handling one. Grenades, rockets, kill the driver. You were a power. Teams worked together to eliminate the advantage.

Pre-patch, melee meant something. Whoever hit first was the winner. You didn't have stupid animations. Halo 2 is hit and run.

When you had a grenade, it was always useful. There wasn't an annoying amount of geometry that reduced the amount of applicable uses to CQC.

You knew that every person you approached had just as good as a chance as you did to win an engagement. The only upper hand was those with better wits, tactics.

Using a sword was exhilarating. You were a menace and you were an instruments of the gods as your covenant sickle dragged many foe into grim reapers grasp. After Halo 2, it was reduced to a nearly useless trinket. Guns were balanced, something no halo game has done right since...

Now I have a stupid amount of choices as to my abilities before I even press play. I have choices for weapons in ordnance... Weapons don't have set spawn points. It's like fiesta was made into a game. Yay.

Now I don't know who the hell I am dealing with in engagement. Now assholes can track me around the map. This should make CTF annoying. Or just the game annoying.

In halo 2, games meant something with 1-50 rank. Instead i still play with people from random skill positions. success in the games mean absolutely nothing anymore. Nobody gives a shit how long one has played, only how well they CAN play. (Does nobody realize this?)

Now some people can see what weapons are landing and where? Now people can reroll to get a favorable weapon on ordnance? People can see through walls? Have vehicles that have a different set of rules to other players? Now snipers and long range players can sometimes not be distracted with suppressive fire? Some people can now see through walls? WTF

Sprinting shouldn't even be in the game. It was irritating in reach. Now there's sprinting and some people will have their sounds suppressed?

Like.... Fuck off. Why do we have to wait so many years for someone to create a true successor to halo 2? Why does no one want to utilize the things that made that game so special? The three greatest multiplayer shooters are (still) Quake 3, Counter-Strike 1.6 and Halo 2. Why? Because everyone that comes along and says "hey let's do something better!" ends up disrupting core gameplay, adding endless amount of frivolous bullshit that adds nothing to the experience and always detracts from it. Instead of keeping core gameplay, adding neat new things (guns, vehicles)

My problem is this game (and like halo 3 and reach) are close to Texas hold 'em. You see the river, you analyze players, but you don't know anything until all the cards are on the table. A game of odds. Halo 3 at least kept things to a near minimum, but the maps were pretty bad so it ruined the experience anyways.

Halo 2 was more like chess. You knew what everyone was capable of. And you could control the board if you made the right moves. You knew you had to keep your distance just in case he had rockets, shotty or sword. There were no surprises. No guessing.

So now when I get my game and play it a while... My friend wants to join me. I have played through all the specializations... He hasn't. He only wants to play with me. What happens then? Is he stuck playing with nothing while everyone else has other stuff. Sure sounds fair, right? Are you expecting that to be a catalyst for desire to play more?

My faith for H4 multiplayer is down to about 5% or so. I will play at least for SP. but the multiplayer has become increasingly more stupidly complex and erratic with each iteration. I go into reach and I hate everything about it. I play it because its the only halo game that still has a huge sizable portion of players. But I get irritated choosing AA and gun combos, get annoyed with just about everything. When I can't find comfort because of the randomization that's occuring, that's telling. I like the gunplay. I like some portions of grenade play that's been destroyed by awful map design and I outright hate the vehicles. They are death traps. Hate the assassinations. I don't even have an option of disabling them. I don't want to see them.

I go into games and feel left out when everyone has all this cool shit and I don't. Oh I gotta play like 10,000 more games to unlock something I connect with? Oh. Yay. Achievements added all the time, armor unlocking on specific days. Tasks you must do. Oh. There's challenges? Ugh. I want to play to become better and for the game to show that I'm better. I don't want to be a decorator. I set up my character maybe a few times and I never do it again.

I preferred halo 2 to this bastardized experience. Unlockables. Randomization. Trying to make the game more "real". Why is everything so damn complicated now?

I used to play halo 1 at parties, played halo 2 in leagues. But ever since that point the core mechanic has been increasingly buried beneath crap that I can't recommend it to anyone due to how complicated the games have become and how much devotion is required to even find satisfaction. Now I can't even recommend it to my close friends because they'll be behind the progression curve? Smart.

I just want halo to be fun again, is that too hard to ask?

Salt everywhere.
Click to expand...

Great post. I really don't think 343 seems to have a clear direction in mind for Halo 4. Perhaps more worryingly, they seem to be getting inspiration from the wrong places.
 
S

senador

Banned
sp3000 said:
Great post. I really don't think 343 seems to have a clear direction in mind for Halo 4. Perhaps more worryingly, they seem to be getting inspiration from the wrong places.
Click to expand...

This is silly. You may not like it, but they are doing exactly what they intend to do.

VV LOL
 
Z

Zeouterlimits

Member
*catches up*
Well. Hydranockz and I were playing the Hybrid trial earlier, which similarly has a specialisation system. As I have with pretty much all such systems, I didn't like it. It's not what I'm looking for. Ghal, getting it as always, voiced exactly how I feel about it.

We don't have all the details, only commenting on what we're seeing.
Havok said:
Michael Wincott's excellent work in Darksiders 2 as Death really just reminds me what a shame it was that he was replaced as the Prophet of Truth. Fantastic stuff.
Click to expand...
His appearance in the game has me more interested than I was.

Edit: indecision, indecision, I've got that affliction
 
E

Enfinit

Member
sp3000 said:
Great post. I really don't think 343 seems to have a clear direction in mind for Halo 4. Perhaps more worryingly, they seem to be getting inspiration from the wrong places.
Click to expand...

Yea, Halo 4's been in development for over three years yet they don't have a "clear direction" on what to do with Halo 4.

It might not be what you personally like, but I think they know what they're doing.

Tashi said:
Lol yea and if my aunt had balls she'd be my uncle.
Click to expand...
...but she's your Aunt. And IGN is a video game news outlet.
 
R

Ramirez

Member
Since I couldn't make my mind up earlier, I just picked up both games that came out today. :p

Sleeping Dogs seems fun so far, GTA with Batman's combat.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
heckfu said:
Thanks for that. I think that will quell a LOT of people's fears nicely.

And I know yall have fielded a fair share of questions today, but can you comment on the specializations availability for the build at PAX you guys will have?
Click to expand...

Probably in the minority here, but that actually worries me. The more I see how much "stuff", for lack of a better word, that is in Halo 4 MP, the more I'm become worried about MM being a fragmentation bomb and unapproachable train wreck.

I don't like plenty of things that we've seen about Halo 4's multi, but MM should be the version of the game that is the developer's vision, not a different settings in each of the 63 playlists nightmare.
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
Kibbles said:
"Halo 4 Specializations Will Change Halo Multiplayer Forever"
Click to expand...
I like what I am reading.

*Gets kicked in the balls by HaloGAF*

GhaleonEB said:
Predictability of outcome is really important when playing a game, as is knowing my opponent's capabilities. When I do X, Y happens. It enables us to make decisions about what to do in a given situation.

With Reach, bloom and armor abilities to various degrees messed with this. That was bad.

Halo 4 appears to be making things worse.

Sometimes when I sneak up on someone sniping, they won't be able to see me coming. Sometimes, they'll be able to see me because of a perk they have active.

Sometimes me pinging them will impair their ability to fire back. Sometimes not because their reticule recoil is suppressed.

Sometimes tagging a rampaging Warthog with an EMP from the plasma pistol will stop it. Some times it will keep going.

Sometimes I'll chew up a Warthog and call out it's low health to my team, who can kill it. Sometimes it's health will come back faster.

Sometimes I'll strip someone's shields at the same time they do mine, and we'll fall back and recharge at the same rate. Sometimes theirs will be faster. Sometimes I'll be faster.

Sometimes I'll hear that guy sprinting up on me with a sword. Sometimes his sound will be suppressed.

And so on. None of these things sound good to me. None of them sound like they will improve the game at all.

I agree with Dax's post on early access to the specializations. Giving gamers who have played longer an advantage over those who have not is poor design. Giving players who spend more money early access to perks is bad marketing.

More and more Halo 4 is turning into something I've been afraid it would turn into, as part of what I loved about Halo's multiplayer game is sapped from it. I hope I'm wrong. I hope the tweaks are all so small as to not matter. But reading the IGN article just made me kinda sad. I wish this wasn't being done to Halo.
Click to expand...
Excellent points.
 
S

senador

Banned
Steelyuhas said:
Probably in the minority here, but that actually worries me. The more I see how much "stuff", for lack of a better word, that is in Halo 4 MP, the more I'm become worried about MM being a fragmentation bomb and unapproachable train wreck.

I don't like plenty of things that we've seen about Halo 4's multi, but MM should be the version of the game that is the developer's vision, not a different settings in each of the 63 playlists nightmare.
Click to expand...

Agreed. Fragmentation sucks.

I don't' know what they have planned though, just hope it works.
 
S

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
I love filling bars and attaining higher numbers. Yet this Specialisation stuff doesn't appeal to me in the slightest.

And letting snipers stay scoped in is very, very dumb.
 
nillapuddin

nillapuddin

Member
Ramirez said:
For all we know, snipers still get knocked out of scope, but I'm probably wrong. :(
Click to expand...

Yeah, as someone who often snipes

Im afraid for the bad guys if that happens

But ya know I feel like we arent leaving any room for adjustments here

Is it unprecedented for COD dev's to tweak perks after release?

(legitimately asking)

I can only assume they do, and why choose to believe anything different goes for Halo?

If something is OP, or unbalanced, Im sure it can be altered
 
R

Ramirez

Member
I don't even need to play the game to know that a sniper not being shout out of scope is game breaking...which is why it would baffle me if that perk caused it not to happen.
 
G

Garrett 2U

Member
Ramirez said:
I don't even need to play the game to know that a sniper not being shout out of scope is game breaking...which is why it would baffle me if that perk caused it not to happen.
Click to expand...

I think it could be okay.
In Halo 4 we have faster movement/strafe speed, (seemingly) less auto aim on the sniper rifle, and more precise long range starting weapons.

I personally don't understand what the bonus of Rogue would be.
It only helps "accuracy" when aimed down sights... but
Do the other starting weapons, besides the long range precision ones, have sights? (Assault Rifle, Storm Rifle, etc)
Does it decrease bloom/recoil?
How does it affect power weapons like the Sniper Rifle (less recoil ^?)


These half answers are infuriating, hopefully tomorrow's bulletin clears it up!
 
R

Ramirez

Member
Boomwood said:
I think it could be okay.
In Halo 4 we have faster movement/strafe speed, (seemingly) less auto aim on the sniper rifle, and more precise long range starting weapons.
Click to expand...

In last week's bulletin one of them said sniping was easier than Reach...having a long range weapon wouldn't matter if the sniper can still stay scoped in and readjust his shot on you.
 
nillapuddin

nillapuddin

Member
Ramirez said:
I don't even need to play the game to know that a sniper not being shout out of scope is game breaking...which is why it would baffle me if that perk caused it not to happen.
Click to expand...

nor do I, but honestly I dont trust our "source"

IGN explained things very poorly and to be fair David Ellis said

"“In past Halo games, when you’d be zoomed in and take a shot, you’d be taken out [of your zoom] ... Now it’s not necessarily the case. As you’re taking shots [with the Stability mod], it allows you to keep your reticule more stable.”
Click to expand...

That doesnt say youll be inifi-scoped, it doesnt say otherwise either though

I say we just have a sleep on it and go from there tomorrow

Obviously your right, I cant think of a way it will be "good" for gameplay
Maybe Primary weapons only?

I dont know, so lets just let it simmer til tomorrow

and if it is for snipers...

... im going to get a lot more frowny faces on my rep lol


Boomwood said:
I personally don't understand what the bonus of Rogue would be.
Click to expand...

Well just to be more accurate, The Specialization is "Rogue"

the actual perk is "Stability"

and it was one of the least elaborated ones, so just wait til tmrw
 
G

Garrett 2U

Member
Ramirez said:
In last week's bulletin one of them said sniping was easier than Reach...having a long range weapon wouldn't matter if the sniper can still stay scoped in and readjust his shot on you.
Click to expand...

To be Frank, "but I am frequently defeated by DMR players if I get spotted quickly enough". (granted that might not be with the Stability perk)

He also did say it was 'easier' to use, but that might just be because it feels more visceral.
 
mhi

mhi

Member
DopeyFish said:
......(and like halo 3 and reach) are close to Texas hold 'em.
Halo 2 was more like chess....
Click to expand...

Very good analogy. Unfortunately most people in the game's target audiance would prefer Poker if they had the choise.

As far as Halo 3. What killed the game was unnecessary sandbox tinkering coupled with maps scaling that was too large (which killed a lot of the CQC encounters that made the 1st two games fun).

I admit that I though Reach was gonna be the savior (hype started when they announced the pistol with a scope and culminated with the Beta) but we all know how that turned out.

Never bothered spending Cr in the game or "leveling" up for that matter though i did enjoy Arena for the first 2 or 3 seasons. I largely stopped playing the game (in favor of CoD) until Anniversary which is the only playlist I play now (wish it was "ranked").

All that said am looking forward to Halo 4 Vanilla, Classic, whateva. I just hope sprinting isnt default now and is still just an armor ability.(Can anyone clarify ?)
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
DopeyFish said:
Halo 2 was more like chess. You knew what everyone was capable of. And you could control the board if you made the right moves. You knew you had to keep your distance just in case he had rockets, shotty or sword. There were no surprises. No guessing.
Click to expand...

I don't remember a play in chess that allows to to move the pieces off the board and attack from the table.
 
S

Slaker117

Member
From the explanations we have, the specializations seem fairly mild. I don't expect them to be hugely game altering, which is good. That said, they still detract from the pure Halo experience that I favor. It's not a deal breaker, but it is a bit disappointing. I appreciate that there will be playlists where they are not present, though as others have pointed out, fragmenting the game across playlists is its own headache. Hopefully the coming details will help smooth things over, but I'm still not going to like the idea of starting players out with different base traits on a fundamental level.
 
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