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[squidhands]

Best and most important post in this thread.

That honour would go to Frankie or David's constant clarification, but thanks. ;-)

I agree here, but I suspect MS is the mastermind behind the content release not 343. Not sure how much of MS marketing 343 utilizes, but information release would fall in their area.

I'm very glad Frank and David are here to answer some questions though. At this point a huge MP vidoc would solve a lot of questions though.

Regardless of who is holding the strings, creating a dramatic change in the Halo franchise requires an expert touch when it comes to releasing information in a way that inspires confidence and excitement about said changes and the new development team overall. I feel absolutely none of that has been achieved thus far. However, playing an older build of the game and getting the opportunity to have some incredible face time with Frankie and Jessica has done wonders to inspire my confidence in 343 and what they have in store for us, and I don't know of anyone who's had a similar experience feel any differently than I do. I envy you guys and gals who are going to PAX.

I'd disagree. Everything which was released through the official channel had been informative. Let me clarify: I meant with official channel, stuff which 343i release on their own. The Sparkasts and the Halo 4 page are containing a lot of helpful information.

But the problem is, there are too many shitty secondary sources and 343i never explained them officially on their page. Why using GAF? Go use the bulletin and explain it,

All of the information that's come from 343 has come after previous drops from other sources, which have generally been terrible. But the official stuff has always had clarity, even though some of it seems like putting the cart before the horse (I'll go again to the specialization info; learning that we can alter vehicle health without knowing AT ALL how vehicle health works).

 

[TCKaos]

I'm pretty sure that Halo 4 will be of the cyclical imbalance variety talked about in the Extra Credits video, starting with something Promethean Vision related. 343i said that most people in the studio started with Promethean Vision and then branched out and most of us here think that it's almost broken (though I think that's more because we haven't been able to use the other Armor Abilities than anything else).

So what do you think will be the common counter to Promethean Vision? I'm fairly sure Hardlight shields aren't visible and Holograms aren't differentiated, and now we also have Wetworks. So a Wetworks/Hologram combo? I wonder if the hologram used by someone with Wetworks still shows up as an outline or as a full figure. The full figure will attract a player leaving them open to being assassinated by the player using Wetworks.

And there's also Active Camo with Awareness and Stability Mod to consider.

 

[Portugeezer]

I'm pretty sure that Halo 4 will be of the cyclical imbalance variety talked about in the Extra Credits video, starting with something Promethean Vision related. 343i said that most people in the studio started with Promethean Vision and then branched out and most of us here think that it's almost broken (though I think that's more because we haven't been able to use the other Armor Abilities than anything else).

So what do you think will be the common counter to Promethean Vision? I'm fairly sure Hardlight shields aren't visible and Holograms aren't differentiated, and now we also have Wetworks. So a Wetworks/Hologram combo? I wonder if the hologram used by someone with Wetworks still shows up as an outline or as a full figure. The full figure will attract a player leaving them open to being assassinated by the player using Wetworks.

And there's also Active Camo with Awareness and Stability Mod to consider.

So basically your whole loadout has to be set up to counter one perk, and it won't even counter it fully.

PV is the shittest thing about the game, PV users should show up on the radar even when crouching, that would be the only way to balance getting f*cked over.

 

[JonCha]

343i has one word: Trust.

My trust is running thin. On a related note, I was talking with my roommate, who is a moderate Halo fan, and 2 nights ago he said Halo 4 is the game he was most excited for. He gets back from work yesterday and I tell him to start refreshing IGN for the Halo news. As we are reading it he turns to me and asks, "it's gonna be Call of Reach then?". Now he's hardly considering it. Consider me disappointed.

Call of Halo is ridiculous and lazy. The game's feel very different.

 

[Mister Negative]

Maybe it'll be like in Halo 2 where primary color becomes your secondary color in team games.

I wish.

 

[Shake Appeal]

So basically your whole loadout has to be set up to counter one perk, and it won't even counter it fully.

...is what one person is speculating, yes.

 

[Karl2177]

Call of Halo is ridiculous and lazy. The game's feel very different.

It's more of an anecdote to how the average gamer feels about perks and the mechanics they bring with them being added to Halo.

 

[DeadNames]

Actually I've been thinking... Maybe these specializations aren't so bad? There are a lot of new gameplay elements put in, and a lot more could happen. Maybe that's what Halo needs. While in a party, I heard one of my friends say Halo was too predictable. With all these new factors, no match will be the same. Everyone will have a unique loadout suiting to their playstyle.


But I'm assuming that there isn't a single god-combo.

 

[TCKaos]

So basically your whole loadout has to be set up to counter one perk, and it won't even counter it fully.

PV is the shittest thing about the game, PV users should show up on the radar even when crouching, that would be the only way to balance getting f*cked over.

Well, you have five loadouts. I'll keep every other possible loadout in mind when constructing them.

That being said you won't even really need to think of an actual hard counter so long as you have eyes on your motion tracker or if you're playing with a team that's properly communicating. I'm just assuming that since 343i said most people in studio started with PV and then branched out that we can expect the same thing, and we can expect a counter to develop fairly quickly.

This makes me happy that I've played competitive Pokemon and dabbled in fighting games, because this is more or less exactly what it feels like to be building a team in Pokemon or picking a character in Street Fighter.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

What you see when you play:

Looks the same. BTW in BLOPS 2 you can customise your look even for team based games modes.

.

Confused at what your point is. There is far more customization of Halo armor than CoD outfits. Blops 2 has much more, but still not this level. Or are you just meaning you'd rather have "teams" where everyone is their own color? That would be a bit hard to see who's who.

So basically your whole loadout has to be set up to counter one perk, and it won't even counter it fully.

PV is the shittest thing about the game, PV users should show up on the radar even when crouching, that would be the only way to balance getting f*cked over.

Have...you played Halo 4?

 

[Myyke]

So basically your whole loadout has to be set up to counter one perk, and it won't even counter it fully.

PV is the shittest thing about the game, PV users should show up on the radar even when crouching, that would be the only way to balance getting f*cked over.

If it is anything like Reach, I'm not going to be picking loadouts for the sole reason of countering what other people are using. I literally wouldn't give a flying fuck in Reach if everyone was Jetpacking around, I simply would not give up Sprint as I found it to be more useful in augmenting my offensive abilities, regardless of what other people were using.

I'll be using whichever particular specialisation complements my own playstyle, I see that as more of a benefit than simply trying to counter what other people are using.

Confused at what your point is. There is far more customization of Halo armor than CoD outfits. Blops 2 has much more, but still not this level. Or are you just meaning you'd rather have "teams" where everyone is their own color? That would be a bit hard to see who's who.

I think he is trying to make an exaggerated argument that regardless of the amount of customisation, it isn't going to really matter as the Red vs Blue colour scheme negates individuality. He is overlooking however that 343 have brought in the "Armour Skin" overlays which (I presume) allow an additional degree of individual variation when it comes to team matches.

 

[TheOddOne]

I use my radar to counter. Damn, don't tell me that is a perk now.

 

[ElzarTheBam]

If it is anything like Reach, I'm not going to be picking loadouts for the sole reason of countering what other people are using. I literally wouldn't give a flying fuck in Reach if everyone was Jetpacking around, I simply would not give up Sprint as I found it to be more useful in augmenting my offensive abilities, regardless of what other people were using.

I'll be using whichever particular specialisation complements my own playstyle, I see that as more of a benefit than simply trying to counter what other people are using.

If only more people on here realised the sheer terror the bolded implies, in regards to your play style, if you can call it that.

 

[cocamola]

Actually I've been thinking... Maybe these specializations aren't so bad? There are a lot of new gameplay elements put in, and a lot more could happen. Maybe that's what Halo needs. While in a party, I heard one of my friends say Halo was too predictable. With all these new factors, no match will be the same. Everyone will have a unique loadout suiting to their playstyle.


But I'm assuming that there isn't a single god-combo.

Yes this is what Halo needs, more stupid additions to cater to the casuals. Halo used to be a match of skill. The better skilled player always won.
Now with Halo 4 you get like 4 crutches.

So yeah, all these additions just make 1v1's RNG. That isn't a good thing.

 

[Portugeezer]

Confused at what your point is. There is far more customization of Halo armor than CoD outfits. Blops 2 has much more, but still not this level. Or are you just meaning you'd rather have "teams" where everyone is their own color? That would be a bit hard to see who's who.

Have...you played Halo 4?

Well there are ways around that, but I know that won't be the case anyway in Halo 4.

Regardless of what armour you have you end up looking almost the same, very hard to differentiate players from one another unless they're using different helmets.

 

[Myyke]

Well there are ways around that, but I know that won't be the case anyway in Halo 4.

Regardless of what armour you have you end up looking almost the same, very hard to differentiate players from one another unless they're using different helmets.

I think that is why they are introducing armour skins:

 

[DeadNames]

Yes this is what Halo needs, more stupid additions to cater to the casuals. Halo used to be a match of skill. The better skilled player always won.
Now with Halo 4 you get like 4 crutches.

So yeah, all these additions just make 1v1's RNG. That isn't a good thing.

As much as I hate to admit it, it DOES need casual features. CoDs main audience is casuals and CoD pretty much has complete dominance over the FPS genre. Most FPSs are just trying to take elements from CoD and incorporate them into their game. Why? Because money. CoD is immensely successful and if CoD fans see a game that they like that is similar, they'll buy it. That's the CoD fanboy mindset. Buy one game, move on. Like vultures, or something.

 

[kylej]

I've got more to say, some of it dismissive of fears, but in the meantime I'll just leave this here...

I find it amusing that this is your take now considering you endlessly argued against me when I said bloom was a superfluous and random addition to Reach prior to that game's release. You are correct, unpredictable systems are not fun.

Anyways, no matter what happens, at least we know 343's playlist management will pick up the slack. I'm sure they'll knock it out of the park. Trust 343.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Well there are ways around that, but I know that won't be the case anyway in Halo 4.

Regardless of what armour you have you end up looking almost the same, very hard to differentiate players from one another unless they're using different helmets.

Yeah, but with the "skin" overlays in 4 I think you'll see a bit more individuality in designs, even with red versus blue. Also I don't think 343 has mentioned yet how secondary colors will work in team-based multiplayer. We could have the skins and secondary colors for customization outside of the red versus blue.

I agree we need more than Reach.

 

[TCKaos]

Speaking of armor:

Is is just me or...?

 

[Dude Abides]

I didn't really get into Halo MP until Reach, so I'm ok with loadouts, armor abilities, etc. My only concern is how much requires XP to unlock such that people with more time to play are getting actual gameplay advantages. That ruins CoD imo.

 

[User 73932]

Speaking of armor:

Is is just me or...?

I do like Carter's helmet and that H4 one look similar. Nice.
check pm

 

[kylej]

I didn't really get into Halo MP until Reach, so I'm ok with loadouts, armor abilities, etc. My only concern is how much requires XP to unlock such that people with more time to play are getting actual gameplay advantages. That ruins CoD imo.

Buy the $99.99 Halo 4 Limited Edition Video Game. It will give you an in-game boost to Frag Your Foes like the best of 'em. Pre-order today.

 

[L1NETT]

Hyabusa and Tracker look really good.

Halo 4's Spartans are starting to grow on me

---

I agree with Squidhands about Halo 4's info. It has been of good quality (presentation and clarity wise) when released from 343 themselves, but other info sources have had sketchy and inaccurate details of ideas barely discussed by 343. No wonder there is so much confusion about the game.

It leads to the Bulletin being a place where stuff is explained properly, rather than a place to announce much new stuff (last week aside- which is why it was good).

 

[_Computer_]

343 wants MP to be cannon. It is so cannon that we can't have Master Chief armor. How can one's armor recharge the health of a vehicle? Also are we gong to see somkind of shiled on the vehicle? So we know not to waste out time trying to kill it. Will we see a player shit out a tracking device that sticks to you after he kills you? How eles would one's armor be able to track someone?

 

[Myyke]

343 wants MP to be cannon. It is so cannon that we can't have Master Chief armor. How can one's armor recharge the health of a vehicle? Also are we gong to see somkind of shiled on the vehicle? So we know not to waste out time trying to kill it. Will we see a player shit out a tracking device that sticks to you after he kills you? How eles would one's armor be able to track someone?

Nanomachines.

Spartan vs Spartan multiplayer is meant to take place in Virtual Reality anyway, so 343 could include a gun that shoots rainbows and it could still be considered canon.

I have to say I like your idea regarding the tracking device though:

Myyke: They're going to get away with our flag in that hog, someone get a tracking device on it NOW! Who has that specialisation?
Elzar: I do!
Myyke: You know what to do!
Elzar: hnnngngngghg
Myyke: ..................
Elzar: hhngngnghghhghghghg
Bobs99: ....................................
Elzar: HNGGHHGHGHGHGHGHGHGHGHG
ZalinKrow: ..........................................
Elzar: *plop*

*FLAG CAPTURED*

 

[IHaveIce]

The thing what comes to my mind is:
There were only like 6 Armor Abilities in Reach, and you could abuse some maps drastically with the right ones, or some places on maps.


Now we have these Armor Abilities, Armor Mods and Specialisations who change the traits of the Spartan. I don't think every combination, every dickish playstyle was tested.

I say after a while, we will see really terrible builds who can whore the shit out of maps.


I'm definately not a really good competive player, I'm also open for changes, but I can understand when someone says " Nope, not with my Halo." Especially after Reach everyone is cautious.

And Squidhands is right, my biggest problem with 343 and Halo 4 are the parts with news distribution. Even now, we got news about some stuff which will be altered by the Specs, but we now nothing about them.

Also the whole thing is dependant on a ranking system, that was never full and officially explained

 

[The Real Napsta]

343 wants MP to be cannon. It is so cannon that we can't have Master Chief armor. How can one's armor recharge the health of a vehicle? Also are we gong to see somkind of shiled on the vehicle? So we know not to waste out time trying to kill it. Will we see a player shit out a tracking device that sticks to you after he kills you? How eles would one's armor be able to track someone?

Mp is a simulation on a holodeck. All of that is possible.

Also: Nanomachines.

 

[Overdoziz]

More and more Halo 4 is turning into something I've been afraid it would turn into, as part of what I loved about Halo's multiplayer game is sapped from it. I hope I'm wrong. I hope the tweaks are all so small as to not matter. But reading the IGN article just made me kinda sad. I wish this wasn't being done to Halo.

This applies to pretty much all the news we've heard about multiplayer so far. Halo seems to be going into a direction which is the opposite of what I want in a Halo game. I want clarity, simplicity and an even playing field. 343 gives us the loadout system, unlocks, perks, specialization and armor abilities. Gone is what made Halo so special to me compared to other games. I remember playing Halo 3 and thinking "I'm so happy Halo isn't going down the CoD road.". It was truly one of the few MP games remaining in which you could just start up the game and play. Equal chances for everyone.

Regarding the point of your post; I think equipment in Halo 3 was a pretty bad offender, especially considering how powerful some of the equipment was. Having a bubbleshield in your back pocket pretty much you've got an invisible safety net. You're nearing death and all of a sudden you deploy it and your enemy can't hit you anymore and is left frustrated. One could argue that the bubbleshield is even worse than armor lock in some cases. An indestructible shield that lasts for what, 15 seconds? So unless your enemy was already in close range there's practically nothing the that enemy could do except wait. And you have to wait a lot longer than you with armor lock. The regenerator isn't much different in that it also is a safety net for people who make bad decisions in a game. And it also makes for really awkward fights if both players are in the regenerative radius.

Anyway, I'm drifting off. Back to the subject at hand. Lack of visual feedback has been a problem since Halo 1. In both Halo 1 and 2 you couldn't see a person's secondary weapon. This was especially a problem with the Energy Sword in Halo 2 which you could quickly wield it and instantly lunge at someone (practically across the map might I add). Halo 3 fixed this by showing the secondary weapon on player's spartans but it added equipment which had the same problem as the secondary weapons in previous games. Bungie clearly didn't learn its lesson.

It wasn't that bad until Reach (and now most likely Halo 4) though. While the visual feedback was limited in previous Halos at least you had to pick up secondary weapons and equipment. This meant that the amount of frustrating moments wasn't as large as in later games. I do want to add that equipment did respawn way too frequently. Even with the quick respawn timers it wasn't as bad as armor abilities in Reach where everyone could spawn with whatever AA they like (depending on playlist and gametype). And unless someone has the jetpack you have to guess what AA someone is actually using. At any moment someone could go into armor lock and deploy a dropshield without you being able to anticipate it. Luckily the slow movement speed in Reach resulted in most people choosing for sprint so it was less of an issue. Bungie and 343 also removed the amount of AAs people could choose from in most if not all playlists.

So while all Halo games have had this problem of lack of visual feedback Halo 4 seems to be the most worrying. With armor abilities, perks and now specializations the amount of possible combinations seems endless. The news that you don't need to wear a specific piece of armor to certain specializations is even more worrying. That would've been a decent way of showing other players what kind of traits someone has but alas. I don't think I have to spend too much on Halo 4 and it's unpredictability because Ghaleon already summed it up nicely. His post is only about the specializations, though. Add to that armor abilities and perks and you end up with a big mess of uncertainty, not something I like in my Halo.

I've stopped playing Call of Duty because of this very reason. The game is fun in its own right but too often I feel cheated when I die. I die because I happen to spawn and get hit being a Predator Missile straight away, I die because the person who I'm fighting with has Juggernaut giving him extra health, I die because someone happened to have had a Martyrdom perk and I couldn't get away fast enough, I die because someone has a scope which allows him to see people through smoke, I die because of things I could hardly have seen coming and it can be incredibly frustrating at times. While some people don't mind it I really dislike that kind of gameplay and this is why most Halo 4 MP news makes me sad. When I first heard about the GI info is literally facepalmed. I couldn't believe what I was hearing about loadouts, AAs, random weapon drops, unlocks and all that jazz. This is not why I started playing Halo and it is not what I want in future Halo games. It completely changes the game for the worse in my opinion. To me it's not longer what makes Halo Halo.

 

[TCKaos]

check pm

no u

So while all Halo games have had this problem of lack of visual feedback Halo 4 seems to be the most worrying. With armor abilities, perks and now specializations the amount of possible combinations seems endless. The news that you don't need to wear a specific piece of armor to certain specializations is even more worrying. That would've been a decent way of showing other players what kind of traits someone has but alas. I don't think I have to spend too much on Halo 4 and it's unpredictability because Ghaleon already summed it up nicely. His post is only about the specializations, though. Add to that armor abilities and perks and you end up with a big mess of uncertainty, not something I like in my Halo.

This is more or less my only worry about this system. I can't counter someone if I can't tell what they're using.

 

[TheOddOne]

The thing what comes to my mind is:
There were only like 6 Armor Abilities in Reach, and you could abuse some maps drastically with the right ones, or some places on maps.

Now we have these Armor Abilities, Armor Mods and Specialisations who change the traits of the Spartan. I don't think every combination, every dickish playstyle was tested.

I say after a while, we will see really terrible builds who can whore the shit out of maps.

Then again, competitive people can turns those options off. Like every Halo before. Something that people seem to be forgetting.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Over, while I don't agree with all of that, it was a great write-up. Bravo.

Hopefully the bulletin can put some fears to rest, but someone get us a vidoc.

 

[Blinding]

I think what's most disappointing to me as a long time fan of the franchise is that Halo is no longer leading the innovation of console FPSs. Halo 2 and 3 brought in innovative features that have become a mainstay for a while now, but Reach (you could argue ODST as well, even though it produced a fantastic result) took the role of following in the footsteps of what has obviously become the trend-setter in Call of Duty, and it seems like it'll be more of the same with Halo 4.

 

[_Computer_]

Mp is a simulation on a holodeck. All of that is possible.

Also: Nanomachines.

It is supposed to be a simulation for real battles in spartan op's. So then it wouldn't be possible. The same health recharging technology apply's to foreign alien vehicle's the same as human vehicle's? That would not be possible.

 

[Hydranockz]

-snip-

Great post. I think it sums up well what people fear about 4.

 

[Overdoziz]

Also the word specialization is a bitch to type.

 

[Myyke]

Also the word specialization is a bitch to type.

Specz (TM)

 

[Blueblur1]

Excellent post, Over.

 

[TheOddOne]

Gotta give it to Over for not going the Kyle route, actually I've gained some huge respect for you. Good post.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Also the word specialization is a bitch to type.

Specz (TM)

Yeah, I now type specs.

Gotta give it to Over for not going the Kyle route, actually I've gained some huge respect for you. Good post.

+1

Sarcasm and hyperbole is funny at times, but these kind of serious posts actually help with feedback and discussion, even if I disagree with some aspects.

 

[IHaveIce]

Also the word specialization is a bitch to type.

true.

And great post, typed out what I couldn't

 

[L1NETT]

Long Post

Great post Over.

That last para sums up what I fear most. Dying not because of a more skilled player, but because of what perks they chose.

Halo was a game I played because it held skill in the highest order. COD doesn't, and its multitude of weapons and perks were exploitable. Dying in COD didn't feel as though you were outskilled, it felt like you were cheated. (In a sense)

I really hope skill is the most important thing in Halo 4, and not which perk you chose.

 

[cocamola]

I hope there is a throwback to classic Halo in Halo 4. Like we saw in the first vidoc (with less sprint and AA).

I don't care about customisation, just give me a BR and i'm good to go.

 

[ElzarTheBam]

I think what's most disappointing to me as a long time fan of the franchise is that Halo is no longer leading the innovation of console FPSs. Halo 2 and 3 brought in innovative features that have become a mainstay for a while now, but Reach (you could argue ODST as well, even though it produced a fantastic result) took the role of following in the footsteps of what has obviously become the trend-setter in Call of Duty, and it seems like it'll be more of the same with Halo 4.

I guess that's gaming right? Every dog has its day.

I mean, you get hardcore FPS guys (unreal, quake etc) upset at what halo did to the majority of the FPSs on the market, such as regen health and the two weapon system.

 

[heckfu]

I'm a bad kid at Halo so maybe this will lower the skill gap enough to make me competitive again.

Ha, suckers! Heckfu's coming back!

 

[Gunnerdude]

What you see when you play:

Halo 4 in 3D confirmed!

Edit: Just finished Over's post and I agree, Plus 1,000,000 Internets!

 

[DesertFox]

UGH that armor...

There's just too much going on. And what happened to visors? Did the UNSC decide to stop using them?

Glad I'm not the only one who noticed the distinct lack of visors... looks a little goofy. But overall I am enjoying the new designs

Speaking of armor:

Is is just me or...?

Nice catch - I like the new one better, looks more refined.

 

[JonCha]

Balancing Promethean Vision is very easy: make the range short.

 

[_Computer_]

MY Opinion is. They add stuff like specialization's to make up for not having a ranking system. People kept coming back to play Halo 3 for the 1-50. It was a huge goal to shoot for. Goals in a game keep people playing. The goal is no longer a rank Its the abliltiy to get specialization's. That is your rank. The problem its all XP based. Any BK can achieve this and be rewarded with perks. The logic is the more goals we put in the game. The less player's will bitch about no ranking system. Keeping player's playing the game is what its all about.

 

[Hydranockz]

I think they add this crap to make up for not having a ranking system. People kept coming back to play Halo 3 for the 1-50. It was a huge goal to shoot for. Goals in a game keep people playing. The goal is no longer a rank Its the abliltiy to get specialization's. That is your rank. The problem its all XP based. Any BK can achieve this and be rewarded with perks. The logic is the more goals we put in the game. The less player's will bitch about no ranking system. Keeping player's playing the game is what its all about.

Source?