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Halo |OT7| You may leave, Juices. And take Team Downer with you.

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BigShow36

Member
I guess the DMR was a bad example. What I meant to say is, when you play the game you should still know you're playing Halo. From the videos we've seen and the MLG feedback this appears to still be the case. We'll see what is said when they use all the "perks" but the game isn't going to feel like CoD or something. You'll still have the longer kill times, and the other things underneath that make Halo Halo.

To me, "Halo" is a lot more than a visual thing. To me, just because a game has a Spartan and a DMR, BR or Pistol doesn't make it "Halo."

Halo meant a game that was beautifully simple on the exterior but hid incredible depth in the actual gameplay. Rather than attempting superficial, false "depth" through onerous loadouts, redundant weaponry, or meaningless progression systems, depth in Halo evolved through the actual player. It was true growth in a players understanding and ability in the game.

It was pure competitive bliss and undeniable fun. It was a perfectly paced arena shooter that worked on a console. It was fast, responsive and rewarded players for making great plays and good decisions.

Now, "Halo" is Call of Duty lite, with the added bonus of super slow kill times that force complete reliance on teamshot above all else. "Depth" and a player's actual ability are irrelevant in the actual gameplay, because the core value has shifted to unlocks, perks, and loadouts.

Instead of returning to the true roots of Halo, the roots that made it the cultural phenomenon it was, 343 instead chose to attempt to morph it into some bastardized version of a different game. Rather than differentiating itself and standing tall based on fundamentally solid gameplay, they're willing to sacrifice the core concepts of Halo in a pathetic attempt at what I can only assume is a money grab.

I was honestly looking forward to Halo 4, but now, I truly think Halo has shifted beyond something I can even continue to hold out hope for. At least I have it's big brother, Black Ops 2, a week later to look forward to. If 343 is content to tag along behind CoD, picking up its scraps from 3 games ago, I might as well play the real version of it.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
"You people"?

What is a progression system? Is it where someone can go from level 1 to level 50 in Halo 3 if it's skill based? Is it also where someone can go from Recruit to Inheritor in Reach if it was Exp/Time based?

It's both but for Halo 4 I would imagine is more similar to Reach than Halo 3. However, I do hope the system takes into account your skill and your opponents skill and gives out credit points accordingly. I think the better players will level up faster in the beginning just because of all the kills, wins and style points they get. But as win % gradually goes down to 50% (like it should for most of the population) stats will start to even out on a per match basis. Matchmaking has to be tighter than in Reach. There should be no insane win streaks like we see in Reach and also CoD.
 

Gunnerdude

Neo Member
You people really need to learn and/or use the term "progression system" correctly. At this point I know it is an argument of semantics.

I meant it in the way that one moves forward through a set goal of achievements or "ranks" without fearing the repercussions of being beaten by better/worst players which would force them to progress in a negative direction on the x or y access (depending on how you want to lay out your graph)

Just my thoughts, can't really clarify them....
 

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
I can respect your post Big Show (thanks for not being sarcastic) even if I disagree. I'd still hope you give the game a chance, or at least wait until we get all the final information, as who knows what we still don't know.

I'm at a skeptical standpoint now myself. I am still looking forward to the game, but I am highly skeptical at how these mechanics will all fit together and be balanced in the final product. I'm willing to hold judgement until I see the final product and play it though. I am assuming they will have "base" playlists too though, as these specs seem geared to Infinity games.

I am less opposed than others at seeing Halo change though. I love the arena shooter aspect, but Halo needed some new tires. Making this game Halo 3.5 is not what the series needed to get a boost. Maybe this stuff isn't either, but I'll wait and see myself. I'm just glad they added sprint and made the gameplay faster.
 

BigShow36

Member
I can respect your post Big Show (thanks for not being sarcastic) even if I disagree. I'd still hope you give the game a chance, or at least wait until we get all the final information, as who knows what we still don't know.

I'm at a skeptical standpoint now myself. I am still looking forward to the game, but I am highly skeptical at how these mechanics will all fit together and be balanced in the final product. I'm willing to hold judgement until I see the final product and play it though. I am assuming they will have "base" playlists too though, as these specs seem geared to Infinity games.

I am less opposed than others at seeing Halo change though. I love the arena shooter aspect, but Halo needed some new tires. Making this game Halo 3.5 is not what the series needed to get a boost. Maybe this stuff isn't either, but I'll wait and see myself. I'm just glad they added sprint and made the gameplay faster.

I'll give the game a chance (at this point though, only because I get the game for free), but all it look's like to me is more of the stuff from Reach that I never wanted in a Halo game.

I'm all for change; it's a way to progress. What I don't like is unneccessary changes, or changes that make things worse. Solid, balanced gameplay will never go out of style and last's a heck of a lot longer than unlocking an armor set at level 50.

Sprint makes people move faster, sure, but from what I've seen the kill times are still agonizingly slow. I would love for Halo to return to faster gameplay, like it had in the first two games, but it doesn't look like that's the case for Halo 4.

All I can see is slow, plodding firefights with a bunch of added fluff on the top that doesn't increase the depth of gameplay, it just makes it more busy.
 
Another concern I have is the possibility of low population numbers in a Classic playlist, should we have one. The Modern Halo playlists will likely be first and foremost meaning less visibility from casuals who just want to hop in and play. Hopefully it won't take long to get into a match.
Any form of a "classic" playlist will be a boneyard when it comes to number of players.
But there is a skill based system. That's my point. We know there is one. We ust don't know what it is.

Frank said they were working on one, and they want to do one, but he was pretty clear that having an environment as free of cheating and abuse as possible was their priority. I took it as if they couldn't find a way to have that environment with a ranking system, they won't include one.


Okay, Treyarch has me interested, I'm watching this stream.
 

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
I'll give the game a chance (at this point though, only because I get the game for free), but all it look's like to me is more of the stuff from Reach that I never wanted in a Halo game.

I'm all for change; it's a way to progress. What I don't like is unneccessary changes, or changes that make things worse. Solid, balanced gameplay will never go out of style and last's a heck of a lot longer than unlocking an armor set at level 50.

Sprint makes people move faster, sure, but from what I've seen the kill times are still agonizingly slow. I would love for Halo to return to faster gameplay, like it had in the first two games, but it doesn't look like that's the case for Halo 4.

All I can see is slow, plodding firefights with a bunch of added fluff on the top that doesn't increase the depth of gameplay, it just makes it more busy.

That's interesting. I guess I always considered Halo 1 and 2 to be very slow. From the videos of 4 it looks super fast. Kill times could be tweaked a bit, but just getting around finally doesn't feel like you're taking a "stroll in the park."

I think 343 can still bring balance to the game, even with the additions. I also believe they will have playlists for those who want a more basic Halo game. Again, I'll reserve judgement for when I can play.

Which means PAX, 2 weeks out. I assume the newest build will have these. That's when Gaf will get their initial impressions. :)
 
So catching up with this thread...

It was pretty frustrating :lol So many people where confused where in my eyes, there wasn't a lot of stuff to be confused about. I thought the concept was pretty clear: You get 10 extra levels when you reach max rank and you get new stuff when you reach those levels. You can do this 8 times and you'll get different stuff. I thought that wasn't so difficult. The only thing I didn't get was whether these specializations were an extra perk or not and that was explained pretty quickly. I was actually faceplaming reading the pages :lol

I also really don't understand all the outrage. I get it that people are mad about the LE getting stuff earlier and function of some of the perks that were announced but that's it. I don't understand why people were mad about the ''news'' that you'll unlock stuff that makes you better. We've known this since the GI article nearly 5 months ago. I mean, I don't like this either but I'm not mad about this announcement. It's not like this changes everything we've known about Halo 4's multiplayer.
 
I love how Microsoft promotes BLOPS 2 10 times more then thier own game Halo 4. Its plastered all over Xbox dashboard all over Xbox live. Oh look who is hosting the BLOPS stream Major Nelson. Don't you think is is ass backwards?
 

Bsigg12

Member
I love how Microsoft promotes BLOPS 2 10 times more then thier own game Halo 4. Its plastered all over Xbox dashboard all over Xbox live. Oh look who is hosting the BLOPS stream Major Nelson. Don't you think is is ass backwards?

At this point, the marketing team for anything Call of Duty might as well belong to Microsoft because it's been like this for the last 3 games.
 
I love how Microsoft promotes BLOPS 2 10 times more then thier own game Halo 4. Its plastered all over Xbox dashboard all over Xbox live. Oh look who is hosting the BLOPS stream Major Nelson. Don't you think is is ass backwards?

Microsoft makes a ton of money off COD, both directly and indirectly. Why wouldn't they promote the shit out of it?
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
I love how Microsoft promotes BLOPS 2 10 times more then thier own game Halo 4. Its plastered all over Xbox dashboard all over Xbox live. Oh look who is hosting the BLOPS stream Major Nelson. Don't you think is is ass backwards?

I don't know why they even spend money advertising CoD at this point. I mean, the only way they could fuck this is up is if they don't put out a game every year lol
 

Gunnerdude

Neo Member
I don't know why they even spend money advertising CoD at this point. I mean, the only way they could fuck this is up is if they don't put out a game every year lol

I'm predicting "COD:previous Warfare Flashbacks" next year where they just bundle all the old COD's together, make it work on consoles, and ship it. Want new features?! Why not all the new features of our last 12 titles!
 
At this point, the marketing team for anything Call of Duty might as well belong to Microsoft because it's been like this for the last 3 games.

If they put half the effort into Halo 4 promo as BLOPS 2 id be happy. In My opinion its a bad ideal to lauch Halo 4 the same time as BLOPS 2. Setting the game up to fail week one.
 

heckfu

Banned
"Treyarch really cares about the community, they real do" - Major Nelson

i shouldn't be watching this event, it hurts.

haDhI.jpg
 

BigShow36

Member
That's interesting. I guess I always considered Halo 1 and 2 to be very slow. From the videos of 4 it looks super fast. Kill times could be tweaked a bit, but just getting around finally doesn't feel like you're taking a "stroll in the park."

I think 343 can still bring balance to the game, even with the additions. I also believe they will have playlists for those who want a more basic Halo game. Again, I'll reserve judgement for when I can play.

Which means PAX, 2 weeks out. I assume the newest build will have these. That's when Gaf will get their initial impressions. :)

Halo 1 was lightyears faster than any of the others, but the average kill time was much slower than the fastest kill speed because the game was much more difficult than its later iterations.

I have a few glimmers of hope with Halo 4, but they mostly deal with custom settings. I want a game that I can play in matchmaking and still have fun, and I just don't see that happening with Halo 4. If I'm not playing a game that I feel is competitively viable, I may as well play Black Ops 2 since at least it allows an individual player to be effective and implement unique strategies and routes.
 
"Treyarch really cares about the community, they real do" - Major Nelson

i shouldn't be watching this event, it hurts.

I was going to make a sarcastic comment but now I'm watching it and they're talking about how they really focused on making the game more fun to watch from a competitive standpoint.

Sigh.
 

Gunnerdude

Neo Member
I was going to make a sarcastic comment but now I'm watching it and they're talking about how they really focused on making the game more fun to watch from a competitive standpoint.

Sigh.

Gah! they finally figured out how to block the video coming through on Twitch at work... :( Guess I'll catch some highlights later.
 
I find it amusing that this is your take now considering you endlessly argued against me when I said bloom was a superfluous and random addition to Reach prior to that game's release. You are correct, unpredictable systems are not fun.
I still don't really mind bloom, because you can literally see it happening in front of you. It also works pretty well over a LAN; it's just when it adds to the existing vagaries of lag that it becomes obnoxious. Also, most importantly, everyone experiences bloom equally, even if the outcomes are sometimes a little kooky: there's no magic bloom reduction perk that an enemy can use against me, without my knowing it, and that they have access to many hours of play before anyone else, simply because they spent more real-life cash.
 
I understand the frustration of many in here. After Reach and too a lesser degree Halo 3 I also wanted a simpler classic Halo free of cumbersome perks and game altering abilities something which at its core was a truly great shooter.

However, While A lot of you believe a core solid shooter is enough to make halo popular again I without any hesitation disagree. As a foundation its required but for Halo to be huge again its going to need a Hook something of interest that separates it from previous games.

The mentality of the Average gamer is "why is it different from the last game" Call of Duty has pushed innovation its added layers of mechanics and game modes that have separated the game enough between releases for people. Zombies has been huge.

If Halo didn't Evolve and Progress then we would effectively be getter Halo 2 2.0. Different Map and bug fixes but nothing "new". This type of game is not something people are going to rush out and buy despite what the purists believe. Every Sequel for virtually every game has improvements and additions to the formula.

This thread has been full of comments how how unbalanced and how game breaking these additions are going to be and I cannot blame anyone for making those assumptions the lack of information regarding these features is diabolical, If I didn't follow halo because of my passion for it I would know Virtually nothing about this game.

I understand its the studios first real title and that the focus has been on development more than marketing and they understand the problem and they still have 3 month to flesh the shit out of the information with a marketing blitz but its been drips and drabs which from a community stand point is horrible and for a while we relied on leaks for old network builds to get information which is unacceptable.

All that while valid is besides the point. Halo has to evolve if it wants to win back older fans and gain new fans it has to create a playable and accessible experience for players new and old alike. AA's were a step in the right direction for the franchise, They mixed up gameplay and added new ways for less skilled players to get kills and move around the map. Skill still plays a huge role in reach. Match Tashi against Ryan and its evident, But because of AA's some of the less skilled players can be slightly more effective. The MAJOR problem with the selection of AA's in reach is that they break map flow and they also act as an escape death crutch breaking game flow.

Halo 4 does seem to combat these issue's somewhat with the AA's it has. Virtually all shown only modify game play they do not make people invincible for example. The majority also seem to have an easy way to counter them.

Granted some of them at the moment seem powerful but until we actually get to use them in real life scenarios we have no way of knowing and bitching and complaining about them will not change that (certainly not at this point)

A lot of commotion has been caused by the "perks" but the majority of them look to have very little actual buff's to players or nerf's to other players. I mean okay so you can hold a bit more ammo or carry other nade, far from game breaking. The most powerful of these seems to be Faster Shield Recharge and how powerful this is is entirely dependent on its speed.

It's true that some form of classic playlist needs to exist but it's unfair and kind of a dick move to go around throwing out comments disregarding and shitting on all this stuff without having actually played the game.

From what iv heard from people who have played the game, It plays well, Really well.

The comments about "halo is trying to be CoD" are so over the top and a horribly simplified way of looking at things. Halo is not trying to be CoD but halo is trying to engage the gaming populous and you know what... A lot of that populous freaking loves CoD's meta game and applying some of those aspects to a Halo game is a great move it not only to draw in new people but to evolve a FPS from its core mechanics to something that people will invest in.

The Lack of a true ranking system is a shame a real shame but the True purpose of a system like that is to match people based on skill so every game is competitive and that can be done with a invisible ranking system just as effectively. While that Number next to your name is nice short time its much better to keep the competitive gameplay long term and an invisible ranking system has less people trying to boost ranks which in turn pollutes the higher ranks with bad players much less.
 
343, when your diehard fans are slavering over a competing upcoming title in the thread dedicated to your upcoming title, you've got, at the least, a marketing problem.
 
Yes, live.

Didn't they say Microsoft could't make it to Gamescon. Therefore Halo 4 would not be there. Here we have Major Nelson and Xbox sponsored stream. BS Sounds like Microfsoft didn't want any game to steal Cod's thunder to me. Oh by the way they must have a shit load of bandwith. (That was a joke)
 
I've officially came to the conclusion that I am salty. So salty. Dat spectator mode. 343, you need to have this for the next Halo. But now it's too late, people will just think you're copying COD again, just like perks, sprint, and killstreaks. Oh well.
 

Not a Jellyfish

but I am a sheep
Even though I already have my LE pre-order over and done with, I was still a little upset at first when seeing that there would be locked content on the disc for players that didn't get the LE.

Now the more I think about I can't help but feel they are doing it for balance, without an open Beta it is hard to judge how the community will react, what will be deemed over-powered and how these specializations will ultimately be used in the game.

Having a someone what smaller number with certain ones gives them a better idea how specific ones effect the sandbox. I like it, I expect there might be a lot of hate and a rocky start by some people whining about certain ones but I believe there will be fixes if needed.
 

Deadly Cyclone

Pride of Iowa State
I don't play MLG, so I could really care less about the e-sports mode in Blops2. It all looks really nice, but I don't know when I'd ever use it. So having it in Halo isn't a big priority to me.
 

Beckx

Member
I don't have any opinion yet on the specializations themselves and will reserve until I see more.

However, I am disappointed at the way they unlock. I knew it was going to be this way, but I still hate it. I hate the idea that you invest time to get more gameplay options. IMO time spent already has its own reward: it leads to mastery. All systems should be available from the start.

I know I am a dinosaur in this opinion, and clearly people are voting with their dollars and they like this stuff. But it's the single most off-putting element of modern FPS games for me.

"Treyarch really cares about the community, they real do" - Major Nelson

i shouldn't be watching this event, it hurts.

We'll never know, but I bet people at 343 are super pissed that MS has no presence at Gamescom, no support for H4, yet Major is there hyping CoD. I would be *furious*.
 

Bsigg12

Member
Hey guys,

want to talk about BlackOps 2? Check this out.



You have a clear answer for months now.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely love Halo and everything about it. It's just curious that Microsoft at this point is backing Call of Duty and not their own title. Maybe it's still too early (I'm not sure how anyone could think this with Halo launching in 82 days) and Microsoft is planning a massive Halo 4 marketing push as we get closer to launch, but at this point all we see is Microsoft backing CoD.

Hopefully we can be here in the next week or two talking about the badass preview for Halo 4 we saw or something that really gets us excited because as info drops right now, it turns into a giant clusterfuck of misunderstanding.
 

Enfinit

Member
Just woke up, and from what I've gathered CoD's multiplayer and spectator goodies are being shown off and everyone's getting super salty.

Where can I watch these shenanigans? Link?
 

BigShow36

Member
Shouldn't everyone, as consumers, consider the games that appeal to them 'their games'?

Halo gameplay appeals to me more than Call of Duty.

Slow, easy aiming Halo with bloom, perks, loadouts, unlocks, random weapon drops, and people seeing through walls appeals to me less than Call of Duty.
 
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