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Halo |OT8| A Salt on the Control Room

F

FUBAR McDangles

Member
The P of Poland said:
I wouldn't say that. First Strike, Ghosts of Onyx, Contact Harvest, The Cole Protocol were all very consistent with each other.
Click to expand...

Sort of.

Brutes, in First Strike, were supposed to be "new" to the Covenant, right? According to John encountering one on the Unyielding Elephant and his surprise at how agile/strong it was.

But in CH, they're the first to come in contact with Humans, kinda. And Johnson is somehow there at the beginning of the 25 year war, meaning he's like 50 in Halo, which kind of makes sense, but ehh.
 
G

Garrett 2U

Member
UNKNOWN iXi said:
Finally Halo 4 is talked about on one of these shows

Bonus Round - Fall Game Preview

Surprisingly good discussion about Halo 4 in this video.

David Ellis shout out from The Pach! Yehhhh lybertyboyyyyyyy lol
Click to expand...


In that Bonus Round video they are talking about how Spartan Ops could steal away some of Call of Duty's multiplayer population...
But they don't even mention how the evolution of Halo's multiplayer could steal a way larger chunk.
Probably because they don't know much about the multiplayer changes...
Hopefully that area of the marketing ramps, starting with PAX.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
heckfu said:
Hey folks, went ahead and made a blog for all the HaloGaffers to access from PAX to post things for the weekend to have it aggregated on one site without comments and things to get the posts lost in the shuffle of news, etc.

http://halogafatpax.tumblr.com/

This is in no way a replacement for Gaf during pax, to be clear, just an addendum.

For all the gaffers going, I'm going to PM Duncan the details of how to access the site to post, etc, to post on the PW protected page with our contact info.
Click to expand...

Very nice.

Someone get me access to post on it.
 
B

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
Pop said:
Got the jackpot on my 2nd game in Arena. It's like the game knows I hate Arena so it gave it to me early. Thanks based Halo God.
Click to expand...

What's wrong with Arena? It's actually one of the better playlists, except the population sucks.

FyreWulff said:
Reach, anyone? little under 70k to Eclipse. Playing whatever fits party size
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Bah, I just got off. :(

Add me for next time if you want; GT: AlienShogun, I'm down for whatever, even the dirty stuff.
 
T

The P of Poland

Member
Shake Appeal said:
She kidnapped, abused, and destroyed the lives of a whole bunch of children.
Click to expand...

Oh, look, a conclusion with insufficient background information.

Are you aware of the fact that ONI, not Halsey, was the one who originally came up with the idea of using children? Are you aware of the fact that they pulled her off the street to do it? Are you aware of the fact that she, once placed in charge of Project ORION, did everything in her power to make the lives of the Spartan trainees easier? Are you aware of the fact that she wanted to postpone the augmentations in order to make them safer, but did not because ONI would have yanked her and replaced her with someone less qualified in order to get their supersoldiers on time?

Also, you speak of the abductions as if they were done for no reason. There were reasons, and they were very good ones. SII was a last alternative, a desperate measure, justified by the circumstances.
 
W

Woorloog

Banned
The P of Poland said:
Also, you speak of the abductions as if they were done for no reason. There were reasons, and they were very good ones. SII was a last alternative, a desperate measure, justified by the circumstances.
Click to expand...

They were intended to be used against other humans. Humans who wanted indepence from the UNSC. Essentially the UNSC doesn't allow free will, you're part of it or you won't live.

Of course the Insurection did use terrorism and other very questionable decisions to try to attain that freedom.

Neither side is really right here of course, Halo is very gray and gray morality, if not gray and black.

EDIT also, ONI didn't force Halsey to lead the Spartan project.

EDIT personally i think the UNSC's actions were wrong and Halsey's as well. Not a fan of the Insurection though.
 
K

kylej

Banned
The P of Poland said:
Oh, look, a conclusion with insufficient background information.

Are you aware of the fact that ONI, not Halsey, was the one who originally came up with the idea of using children? Are you aware of the fact that they pulled her off the street to do it? Are you aware of the fact that she, once placed in charge of Project ORION, did everything in her power to make the lives of the Spartan trainees easier? Are you aware of the fact that she wanted to postpone the augmentations in order to make them safer, but did not because ONI would have yanked her and replaced her with someone less qualified in order to get their supersoldiers on time?

Also, you speak of the abductions as if they were done for no reason. There were reasons, and they were very good ones. SII was a last alternative, a desperate measure, justified by the circumstances.
Click to expand...

I'm aware of all of this.
 
P

Plywood

NeoGAF's smiling token!
Spoilers

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Spoilers
everywhere
 
H

Hypertrooper

Member
The P of Poland said:
Oh, look, a conclusion with insufficient background information.

Are you aware of the fact that ONI, not Halsey, was the one who originally came up with the idea of using children? Are you aware of the fact that they pulled her off the street to do it? Are you aware of the fact that she, once placed in charge of Project ORION, did everything in her power to make the lives of the Spartan trainees easier? Are you aware of the fact that she wanted to postpone the augmentations in order to make them safer, but did not because ONI would have yanked her and replaced her with someone less qualified in order to get their supersoldiers on time?

Also, you speak of the abductions as if they were done for no reason. There were reasons, and they were very good ones. SII was a last alternative, a desperate measure, justified by the circumstances.
Click to expand...
Where was it stated that ONI came up with abducting children?
 
N

NobleGundam

Banned
Shake Appeal said:
She kidnapped, abused, and destroyed the lives of a whole bunch of children.
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She offered candy, how could they resist?
jk
. The descision to place this burden with the augmentation process without giving them any choice is... Horrible.

Halo Legends added some perspective to the psychological effects being kept as a Spartan Candidate before augmentation.
 
W

willow ve

Member
Alienshogun said:
What's wrong with Arena? It's actually one of the better playlists, except the population sucks.



Bah, I just got off. :(

Add me for next time if you want; GT: AlienShogun, I'm down for whatever, even the dirty stuff.
Click to expand...

The only thing wrong with Arena is the map selection
and the fact that they don't show your rank in every lobby... but I digress
. Get rid of Sword Base already and add 5-6 new forged maps. (Or keep your precious Sword Base and drop Sword and Shotgun from the map entirely - replace with Plasma Pistols). The population size usually sucks, so it takes a few extra minutes between matches to find a game, but the competitive nature and the desire to win a match is much higher in Arena.
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
The P of Poland said:
Oh, look, a conclusion with insufficient background information.

Are you aware of the fact that ONI, not Halsey, was the one who originally came up with the idea of using children? Are you aware of the fact that they pulled her off the street to do it? Are you aware of the fact that she, once placed in charge of Project ORION, did everything in her power to make the lives of the Spartan trainees easier? Are you aware of the fact that she wanted to postpone the augmentations in order to make them safer, but did not because ONI would have yanked her and replaced her with someone less qualified in order to get their supersoldiers on time?

Also, you speak of the abductions as if they were done for no reason. There were reasons, and they were very good ones. SII was a last alternative, a desperate measure, justified by the circumstances.
Click to expand...
She could have resigned and told the world that Oni was using childeren. She didn't care about those childeren, they we're science experiments to her.

That she grew a conscience after what happen doesn't excuse her behaviour.
 
T

The P of Poland

Member
Woorloog said:
They were intended to be used against other humans. Humans who wanted indepence from the UNSC. Essentially the UNSC doesn't allow free will, you're part of it or you won't live.

Of course the Insurection did use terrorism and other very questionable decisions to try to attain that freedom.

Neither side is really right here of course, Halo is very gray and gray morality, if not gray and black.

EDIT also, ONI didn't force Halsey to lead the Spartan project.
Click to expand...

You hit on it here: Halo is full of gray areas. Hence it is wrong, and a demonstration of poor writing skills, to portray Halsey as absolutely negative as she is in Glasslands.

As for the Insurrection, again, you partially get it right. They were terrorists. ALL OF THEM. That's why they were the Insurrectionists. They didn't revolt because of high taxes, or anything concrete; just one day, as far as we know, they started blowing up restaurants. How else is the UNSC supposed to respond to that but with force? Again, if they had started petitioning for greater autonomy peacefully but were stepped on, that would be different. But from the evidence we have, that is just not the case.

Edit: OddOne, do you honestly think she'd have been allowed to resign and tell the world?
Let me make it clear, I don't think Halsey is made of flowers and sunshine. But neither does she deserve to be demonized like this. I just want her to be given a fair shake.
 
I

IHaveIce

Banned
The P of Poland said:
Oh, look, a conclusion with insufficient background information.

Are you aware of the fact that ONI, not Halsey, was the one who originally came up with the idea of using children? Are you aware of the fact that they pulled her off the street to do it? Are you aware of the fact that she, once placed in charge of Project ORION, did everything in her power to make the lives of the Spartan trainees easier? Are you aware of the fact that she wanted to postpone the augmentations in order to make them safer, but did not because ONI would have yanked her and replaced her with someone less qualified in order to get their supersoldiers on time?

Also, you speak of the abductions as if they were done for no reason. There were reasons, and they were very good ones. SII was a last alternative, a desperate measure, justified by the circumstances.
Click to expand...

not all kids were pulled off the street, at least I think to remember this so.
And ONI wanted to take children? Thought Halsey wanted the kids because it is easier to change the bodies and their mind if they are still young.

But it is a long time ago I read the books
 
W

Woorloog

Banned
The P of Poland said:
As for the Insurrection, again, you partially get it right. They were terrorists. ALL OF THEM. That's why they were the Insurrectionists. They didn't revolt because of high taxes, or anything concrete; just one day, as far as we know, they started blowing up restaurants. How else is the UNSC supposed to respond to that but with force? Again, if they had started petitioning for greater autonomy peacefully but were stepped on, that would be different. But from the evidence we have, that is just not the case.
Click to expand...

Actually, we don't know that. All the books so far have been more or less portayed from the UNSC point of view... Though i think The Cole Protocol had characters who were anti-UNSC but not terrorists.
We don't have a comprehensive picture of the Insurrection really, not enough data to make proper judgements.
*And people rarely just start being terrorists without cause... terrorism is usually done by extremists factions who don't like slow progress or such. So i'd assume the UNSC has previously denied greater autonomy. But again, we don't know for sure.

*Note i'm not actually sure how this terrorism stuff works IRL, i don't have enough knowledge on this (even though i've read a book regarding this, i don't remember anything about it). Will have to read about this so take whatever i say on this matter with a pinch of salt.
Eh, not salt, something else, people here have high enough bloodpressure as it is.

TheOddOne said:
She is a well known figure, if she really cared she would have done it -- even if it cost her everything.
Click to expand...

She's intelligent enough to do that in a way that ONI cannot prevent.
 
T

TheOddOne

Member
The P of Poland said:
Edit: OddOne, do you honestly think she'd have been allowed to resign and tell the world?
Let me make it clear, I don't think Halsey is made of flowers and sunshine. But neither does she deserve to be demonized like this. I just want her to be given a fair shake.
Click to expand...
She is a well known figure, if she really cared she would have done it -- even if it cost her everything.
 
T

The P of Poland

Member
Woorloog said:
Actually, we don't know that. All the books so far have been more or less portayed from the UNSC point of view... Though i think The Cole Protocol had characters who were anti-UNSC but not terrorists.
We don't have a comprehensive picture of the Insurrection really, not enough data to make proper judgements.
*And people rarely just start being terrorists without cause... terrorism is usually done by extremists factions who don't like slow progress or such. So i'd assume the UNSC has previously denied greater autonomy. But again, we don't know for sure.

*Note i'm not actually sure how this terrorism stuff works IRL, i don't have enough knowledge on this (even though i've read a book regarding this, i don't remember anything about it). Will have to read about this so take whatever i say on this matter with a pinch of salt.
Eh, not salt, something else, people here have high enough bloodpressure as it is.
Click to expand...

I fully agree that we don't know enough about the history of the Insurrection. Someone really ought to write some books about that (hint, hint, 343). And since we don't know enough, don't you think we should avoid statements like "Essentially the UNSC doesn't allow free will, you're part of it or you won't live."

On the subject of Halsey, again, it is far more likely she would have been caught and shot if she had tried to release anything, and the information immediately suppressed. The villain in the abductions, if indeed there is a villain, is the Office of Naval Intelligence. Halsey is their scapegoat.
 
W

Woorloog

Banned
The P of Poland said:
I fully agree that we don't know enough about the history of the Insurrection. Someone really ought to write some books about that (hint, hint, 343). And since we don't know enough, don't you think we should avoid statements like "Essentially the UNSC doesn't allow free will, you're part of it or you won't live."

On the subject of Halsey, again, it is far more likely she would have been caught and shot if she had tried to release anything, and the information immediately suppressed. The villain in the abductions, if indeed there is a villain, is the Office of Naval Intelligence. Halsey is their scapegoat.
Click to expand...

Eh, what about "all the Insurrectionists are terrorists"? :D EDIT to make it clear, i hear you and understand.
Based on what's shown, it looked like that though (and what you said...). But considering how much more we know about the UNSC, it seems my statement might be closer to truth (and remember that beginning of Ghosts of Onyx, the Insurrection wanted to negotiate (a ruse but that's not the point), the UNSC ignored that). But yes, we need more info. And hopefully we'll get something in the future.

Halsey is arguably just as much at fault as ONI, she did her job willingly after all. The same can't be really applied to "grunts", like the drill instructors, they just follow their orders (indeed, didn't many nazi guards on the concentration camps just follow orders? I'm not defending them, just want some comparison but i'm afraid i'm not sure about this, so please correct me if i'm wrong). EDIT ah, really bad comparison really, i reckon. What was the law about internet discussions and nazis?

No security is perfect, she's clever and intelligent enough she could've, maybe, released the data to public, and once public, it is practically impossible to suppress the spread of information any more.
 
T

The P of Poland

Member
Woorloog said:
Eh, what about "all the Insurrectionists are terrorists"? :D
Based on what's shown, it looked like that though (and what you said...). But considering how much more we know about the UNSC, it seems my statement might be closer to truth (and remember that beginning of Ghosts of Onyx, the Insurrection wanted to negotiate (a ruse but that's not the point), the UNSC ignored that). But yes, we need more info. And hopefully we'll get something in the future.

Halsey is arguably just as much at fault as ONI, she did her job willingly after all. The same can't be really applied to "grunts", like the drill instructors, they just follow their orders (indeed, didn't many nazi guards on the concentration camps just follow orders? I'm not defending them, just want some comparison but i'm afraid i'm not sure about this, so please correct me if i'm wrong). EDIT ah, really bad comparison really, i reckon. What was the law about internet discussions and nazis?

No security is perfect, she's clever and intelligent enough she could've, maybe, released the data to public, and once public, it is practically impossible to suppress the spread of information any more.
Click to expand...

All Innies that we have seen are terrorists. Not saying that there weren't peaceful protesters at some point, but all Insurrectionists that have been shown in established fiction just plain like to blow up buildings. My future Halo wishlist definitely includes a series of novels not written by Karen Traviss dedicated to the Insurrection and the years leading up to the Covenant War.

The pro-Halsey camp, of which I am a member, would say that she stuck on both in an effort to protect the children as much as possible and out of fear for her own safety.
 
W

Woorloog

Banned
The P of Poland said:
All Innies that we have seen are terrorists. Not saying that there weren't peaceful protesters at some point, but all Insurrectionists that have been shown in established fiction just plain like to blow up buildings. My future Halo wishlist definitely includes a series of novels not written by Karen Traviss dedicated to the Insurrection and the years leading up to the Covenant War.

The pro-Halsey camp, of which I am a member, would say that she stuck on both in an effort to protect the children as much as possible and out of fear for her own safety.
Click to expand...

True, and i too wish for that. Guess that discussion is more or less in the end, otherwise we start going on circles, no?

Objectively, Halsey didn't fear for her own safety. No where it was indicated she thought this way, not Halsey's Journal, not any of the books, not even Glasslands. EDIT nowhere as i recall anyway....

As for the children, to me it looked like she wanted to protect them as investments, experiments, not human beings. Later on she started to care and doubt.
Would have to read the books again to be sure though, not something i'm going to do anytime soon. Don't even know where my Halo books are, scattered all over the house i guess...
Regardless, i won't defend her but neither will i bother to condem her, her own conscience is enough justice as i see it.
 
T

The P of Poland

Member
Woorloog said:
True, and i too wish for that. Guess that discussion is more or less in the end, otherwise we start going on circles, no?

Objectively, Halsey didn't fear for her own safety. No where it was indicated she thought this way, not Halsey's Journal, not any of the books, not even Glasslands. EDIT nowhere as i recall anyway....

As for the children, to me it looked like she wanted to protect them as investments, experiments, not human beings. Later on she started to care and doubt.
Would have to read the books again to be sure though, not something i'm going to do anytime soon. Don't even know where my Halo books are, scattered all over the house i guess...
Regardless, i won't defend her but neither will i bother to condem her, her own conscience is enough justice as i see it.
Click to expand...

It's not stated in any of the books that she feared for her safety. But like I said earlier, it is supported by common sense. As for her caring for the trainees, I would refer you to Fall of Reach, in the scene where the SIIs receive their augmentations. To me, Halsey's behavior in that scene is very strong evidence of her attempting to help the Spartans.
 
R

raindoc

Member
The P of Poland said:
Oh, look, a conclusion with insufficient background information.

Are you aware of the fact that ONI, not Halsey, was the one who originally came up with the idea of using children? Are you aware of the fact that they pulled her off the street to do it? Are you aware of the fact that she, once placed in charge of Project ORION, did everything in her power to make the lives of the Spartan trainees easier? Are you aware of the fact that she wanted to postpone the augmentations in order to make them safer, but did not because ONI would have yanked her and replaced her with someone less qualified in order to get their supersoldiers on time?
Click to expand...


following orders is NOT a legit excuse, the Nazis learned that the hard way at the Nuremberg trials.
she knew what she was doing and the end doesn't justify the means/the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Halsey isn't evil, but she isn't a saint either.
 
M

malfcn

Member
Man. DLC maps never come up in Reach. Just nothing but Forge maps. What was the point of selling them if they are useless?
 
H

Homeboyd

Member
I hope there are a couple protein vehicles. I know they don't really need any since they can bippity boppity around on their own.. But it's still be pretty sweet. Maybe at PAX. Hoping for that Forge reveal at PAX as well.....
 
B

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
Homeboyd said:
I hope there are a couple protein vehicles. I know they don't really need any since they can bippity boppity around on their own.. But it's still be pretty sweet. Maybe at PAX. Hoping for that Forge reveal at PAX as well.....
Click to expand...

I'm looking forward to the T-bone air vehicle myself.
 
W

Woorloog

Banned
The P of Poland said:
It's not stated in any of the books that she feared for her safety. But like I said earlier, it is supported by common sense. As for her caring for the trainees, I would refer you to Fall of Reach, in the scene where the SIIs receive their augmentations. To me, Halsey's behavior in that scene is very strong evidence of her attempting to help the Spartans.
Click to expand...
Sadly, there is no good evidence to support common sense. I assumed (in the scene you mention), that she had already begun to care about her experiments as human beings as well (open to intepretation of course). But isn't that irrelevant since, arguably, she had begun the project without conscience?
I have nothing more to add this anymore really. Consider what i said, i'll consider what you said.
Ultimately there is no clear and right answer to questions like this.

raindoc said:
following orders is NOT a legit excuse, the Nazis learned that the hard way at the Nuremberg trials.
she knew what she was doing and the end doesn't justify the means/the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

Halsey isn't evil, but she isn't a saint either.
Click to expand...
According to the Allies. Victorious side's morality. But understandable, and i think i think the same way, because inviduals could refuse, it doesn't necessarily prevent the event but it will give those who refused clear conscience.
Following orders under duress is slightly different of course, no? Kinda gray area...

Agree with your assesment of Halsey.
UNKNOWN iXi said:
http://farm3.staticflickr.com/2147/2459020872_607513a54c.jpg[IMG]

[i]Can't unsee..[/i][/QUOTE]
Heh, someone suggested that they wouldn't be able to shoot right away at so sad target.
Me, i like the helmet.
Click to expand...
 
H

higherARC05

Banned
Homeboyd said:
I hope there are a couple protein vehicles. I know they don't really need any since they can bippity boppity around on their own.. But it's still be pretty sweet. Maybe at PAX. Hoping for that Forge reveal at PAX as well.....
Click to expand...

New info on a new unannounced armor ability.....

Players can now "bippity boppity" around their enemies while enjoying their protein vehicles to keep them muscles strong. New armor mod is called Bippity-Bop. Enjoy
 
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