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Halo |OT8| A Salt on the Control Room

K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
Beckx said:
Yeah. New Halo, a MGS announcement w/ Kojima, and Platinum Games with two upcoming games, all of them there at the same time.

The chances of that happening at future PAXes are...slim.
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I'll definitely be attending future PAXs. I skipped on this one cause I thought I'd try going on Halo 4 media blackout, lol. But with next gen consoles coming out next Fall, next year should be fun. And if nothing else, I'll definitely go to the PAX before Halo 5.
 
X

xxjuicesxx

Member
Tashi said:
That's funny.

I actually still haven't pre-ordered H4. Waiting to hear about NYC Launch details.
Click to expand...

I missed that Newegg H4 deal because I wasn't sure LE or Vanilla. Now I'm pretty set on LE I guess I'm waiting on good news or a good deal.

Blops2 is 48 at Newegg which is why I bit finally. Wonder what I get for pre-ordering now...
 
H

Havok

Member
UNKNOWN iXi said:
Not sure if you're agreeing or disagreeing as this post can be argued both ways, but either way in the context of what I'm arguing.. couldn't agree more. (If you're only talking about the other bad additions)
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I'm disagreeing about your "Don't walk over it if you don't want to pick it up" point. There are a huge number of reasons that I might need to go near a flag but not pick it up (including every single one that I listed in that last post). The bear trap analogy only works with automatic pickup, not with a button press. Bear traps don't wait until I hit a switch to fuck me over, they clamp down when I step on them. I can fiddle with a button press system until I pick up what I want. The game decides for me with auto-pickup.

No, autopickup isn't the worst thing in the world. But it sure isn't an improvement. And yes, there is a snowball effect with the negative bits they're adding in, but we can't take these things piece by piece, they have to be looked at in the context of how the system works as a whole because they interact on a fundamental level.
 
B

Blueblur1

Member
kittens said:
I'll definitely be attending future PAXs. I skipped on this one cause I thought I'd try going on Halo 4 media blackout, lol. But with next gen consoles coming out next Fall, next year should be fun. And if nothing else, I'll definitely go to the PAX before Halo 5.
Click to expand...

That's probably the next time I'll be going as well.
 
T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Zeouterlimits said:
Banned site. In the middle of the thread.

I still haven't pre-ordered either.
Gotten to checkout multiple times and then closed the browser tab.
The LE just seems to make me grimace slightly.
Click to expand...

xxjuicesxx said:
I missed that Newegg H4 deal because I wasn't sure LE or Vanilla. Now I'm pretty set on LE I guess I'm waiting on good news or a good deal.
Click to expand...

I'm surprised. The LE is such a good deal. I feel better about buying the LE H4 than I did buying Heroic Halo Reach. For sure.
 
N

NullPointer

Member
I can understand why flags could be undroppable from a balance standpoint, but I just can't grock the auto-pickup. Being auto means players will pick it up by accident, and be forced into that role, which is never a good thing in my book.
 
Z

Zeouterlimits

Member
Tashi said:
I'm surprised. The LE is such a good deal. I feel better about buying the LE H4 than I did buying Heroic Halo Reach. For sure.
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It's not what I look for in an LE. I'd be happier with a BTS/fiction heavy LE and a day one season pass for Halo 4. That way it's more a decision I get to make after playing Halo 4, not before.
 
K

Ken

Member
Shake Appeal said:
What you have to do, first of all, is make victory crucial. You have to make it so every player in a given game wants to win desperately, enough that they will stop racking up kills, fucking about in party chat, and work toward the end of winning the game. How do you do this?

1. Make the reward for winning games inherent and significant.
2. Make the punishment for losing games inherent and significant.

[What's the most efficient way to do this?

Rank players according to their wins and losses, at least in some playlists. Tie their gaming self-worth and 'status' to their wins record, and they will try to win properly. When they try to win properly, they will use those things in the game that improve their chances of winning. Then you can fiddle with systems so that teamwork will better improve those chances.


Hint: those playlists would be ranked.)
Click to expand...

Lol, ranked playlists and having a displayed W/L record for the individual doesn't stop people from derping around.

Only way to ensure that people don't just run around mindlessly in your team is to make a ranked teams playlist where every player must enter as a ranked team. Basically a small group of 4~20 players are a ranked team with a single W/L record and ranked rating with game history for every ranked match played by the members. You now have multiple people together who hopefully care about their stats, and if not and some just want to troll then luckily for you they are on the other team and you get free rank points from an easy win.

Most individuals won't care about the meaningless numbers that sit idly by his name whenever he enters a pre-game lobby, but an individual will care and strive to perform well when he's playing with other human players that he knows personally to some degree who can berate him for doing poorly. So instead of trying to correct the individual with numbers, you do it with another human.
 
T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Zeouterlimits said:
It's not what I look for in an LE. I'd be happier with a BTS/fiction heavy LE and a day one season pass for Halo 4. That way it's more a decision I get to make after playing Halo 4, not before.
Click to expand...

Hmm, yea I do love behind the scenes stuff. That reminds me, I actually recently got the Halo 3 making of disc. I should watch that soon.
 
Z

Zeouterlimits

Member
Tashi said:
Hmm, yea I do love behind the scenes stuff. That reminds me, I actually recently got the Halo 3 making of disc. I should watch that soon.
Click to expand...
From the LE or the Legendary Edition?
Cause the Legendary Edition has a wonderful 2 hourish video with teen heartthrob Jones, Staten and Marty where they talk about the Halo 1 & 2 cutscenes, while largely insulting each other and have a fun time giving great insight into how they were made.
 
S

senador

Banned
Holy Shake post. There is a reason you are my favorite.

I'm open for change and willing to try some of these controversial changes that have never been "Halo" but I do wish/hope 343 would actually listen to and think like Shake's post and maybe change a few things. Some changes in the game really do seem like changes for the sake of change.

The lead up to this game is interesting. I'm excited to play it, but I don't have the hype I had with Reach and 3. I'm confused with how the game mechanics work and why things are the way they are. I don't feel they owe us an explanation like the community has some sort of authority over the game, but being confused sucks. It's the wrong kind of mystery.

Shake, when are you going to stop writing and get into game design? Seems like Juices could do it too if he were less aggressive.
 
T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Zeouterlimits said:
From the LE or the Legendary Edition?
Cause the Legendary Edition has a wonderful 2 hourish video with teen heartthrob Jones, Staten and Marty where they talk about the Halo 1 & 2 cutscenes, while largely insulting each other and have a fun time giving great insight into how they were made.
Click to expand...

Oh damn, I don't know now. I'll just have to see when I get home tonight.
 
K

Karl2177

Member
Zeouterlimits said:
From the LE or the Legendary Edition?
Cause the Legendary Edition has a wonderful 2 hourish video with teen heartthrob Jones, Staten and Marty where they talk about the Halo 1 & 2 cutscenes, while largely insulting each other and have a fun time giving great insight into how they were made.
Click to expand...

One of my favorites: "The pelican is 14 miles long and can hold 30 000 people."
 
Vire

Vire

Member
Guyz

PAX Panel+ViDoc in 4 hours

daavd-o.gif
 
T

The P of Poland

Member
I think it is safe to say that H4 will either be the absolute best Halo game ever or the absolute worst.
343 have taken such a gamble in so many aspects of this game, I'm astonished. Kudos for them for having such a giant collective pair if nothing else.
 
Portugeezer

Portugeezer

Member
Blueblur1 said:
I'd like the ability to play standard CTF in Halo 4. They've got to give us that at least.

Edit: Excellent, excellent post by Shake.
Click to expand...

I don't think they will have a separate CTF mode just so people can drop the flag, maybe in custom games if that's what you mean.
 
Z

Zoso Achilles

Member
UNKNOWN iXi said:
You're saying the same exact thing I am and it seems people aren't understanding the point that the problem isn't the auto pick-up..

The problem is the other shit like not being able to drop the flag mixed with the auto pick-up. The bigger problem here is that, not the auto pick-up.
  • If you can drop the flag, the auto pick-up wouldn't be a problem..
  • If you don't auto pick-up the flag, not being able to drop the flag would STILL be a huge problem.
Priorities of things to bitch about IMO :b
Click to expand...

Zoso Achilles said:
Auto flag-pickup by itself isn't that big of a deal. It's annoying for sure, why can't a player be trusted to push a button on the flag, but it's not game breaking. However, couple that with not being able to drop the flag, and you've got yourself a fucking problem...
Click to expand...
That is the point I made, perhaps you aren't the one understanding/reading. When you combine auto-pickup with the inability to drop the flag, that creates a huge problem. I feel like I keep repeating myself here, so in the interest to reduce spam in this thread, I'll go back to lurking while other people try to rationalize not being able to unclench your hand and drop a flag.

Edit:
xxjuicesxx said:
I await the trolling a team does to its own player after hes grabbed flag and cant let go and has a vehicle parked over his flagspot.
Click to expand...
I never thought of that...I take it all back, leave no flag drop in.

Edit 2:
UNKNOWN iXi said:
Figured it was disagreeing, so I'll try to counter it as you bring up some seemingly good points.

If we go by your way of looking at it as a whole, then you shouldn't use those reasons you did to counter what I was saying because why would there be a Rocket/anything useful near a flag if it's auto pick-up? No competent Rocket/power weapon player would tread anywhere near an auto pick-up flag that you can't drop it.. So the chances of that happening seem fairly slim and not as problematic as shuffling through so many things to pick up a flag. The same goes for any other examples one could come up with that you would need to pick up the flag due to circumstance. Not only would these circumstances occur less-likely with the flag as auto pick-up, but what you said can also be argued in favor of having the auto pick-up. I won't bother explaining that though unless you want me to.

The reason I'm separating that feature from the other bad additions is because what do you think 343 is more likely to listen to and change? Us complaining about an entire mode when packaged as a whole or nitpicking the crap out of the bad things that can easily be changed? I think the priority here should be complaining about the obvious things that are in no way shape or form beneficial to the mode as a whole. Auto pick-up isn't a big deal nor does it present any huge problems (in fact, it even has some positives).. not being able to drop the flag and the waypoint on the other hand.. I doubt anyone can/would argue those in a way that would realistically change anyone's mind.
Click to expand...
I don't even...I'm going to have to log off GAF to prevent posting about this, seriously.
 
FUNKNOWN iXi

FUNKNOWN iXi

Member
Havok said:
I'm disagreeing about your "Don't walk over it if you don't want to pick it up" point. There are a huge number of reasons that I might need to go near a flag but not pick it up (including every single one that I listed in that last post). The bear trap analogy only works with automatic pickup, not with a button press. Bear traps don't wait until I hit a switch to fuck me over, they clamp down when I step on them. I can fiddle with a button press system until I pick up what I want. The game decides for me with auto-pickup.

No, autopickup isn't the worst thing in the world. But it sure isn't an improvement. And yes, there is a snowball effect with the negative bits they're adding in, but we can't take these things piece by piece, they have to be looked at in the context of how the system works as a whole because they interact on a fundamental level.
Click to expand...

Figured it was disagreeing, so I'll try to counter it as you bring up some seemingly good points.

If we go by your way of looking at it as a whole, then you shouldn't use those reasons you did to counter what I was saying because why would there be a Rocket/anything useful near a flag if it's auto pick-up? No competent Rocket/power weapon player would tread anywhere near an auto pick-up flag that you can't drop it.. So the chances of that happening seem fairly slim and not as problematic as shuffling through so many things to pick up a flag. The same goes for any other examples one could come up with that you would need to pick up the flag due to circumstance. Not only would these circumstances occur less-likely with the flag as auto pick-up, but what you said can also be argued in favor of having the auto pick-up. I won't bother explaining that though unless you want me to.

The reason I'm separating that feature from the other bad additions is because what do you think 343 is more likely to listen to and change? Us complaining about an entire mode when packaged as a whole or nitpicking the crap out of the bad things that can easily be changed? I think the priority here should be complaining about the obvious things that are in no way shape or form beneficial to the mode as a whole. Auto pick-up isn't a big deal nor does it present any huge problems (in fact, it even has some positives).. not being able to drop the flag and the waypoint on the other hand.. I doubt anyone can/would argue those in a way that would realistically change anyone's mind.

Zoso Achilles said:
When you combine auto-pickup with the inability to drop the flag, that creates a huge problem. I feel like I keep repeating myself here, so in the interest to reduce spam in this thread, I'll go back to lurking while other people try to rationalize not being able to unclench your hand and drop a flag.
Click to expand...

I understand that, as does Ricken.. but yes, no point in further talking about it as you're clearly making it seem like I'm defending something you think should be universally accepted as crap.

Zoso Achilles said:
Edit 2:

I don't even...I'm going to have to log off GAF to prevent posting about this, seriously.
Click to expand...

Thank you :] Nice one-sided mentality ya got there <3
 
D

DD-11

Member
I would be ok with not being able to drop the flag if it wasn't auto pickup. Everyone who has played Halo 4 has loved it, every video makes it look awesome, so I'm willing to believe that it's good. I'm hoping that the auto pickup is there just to make it beginner friendly at this event...hoping.
 
S

StalkerUKCG

Banned
Have we got any confirmation that the Vidoc is going to be uploaded tonight? Its like 9:30 here and I'm not going to stay awake if it's not coming out.
 
Z

Zeouterlimits

Member
Ken said:
Why not just screencap it, order it from there, and demand compensation when they say it's not offered.
Click to expand...
Because if anything the specialisations whole mess turns me off the LE, I don't want to support practices like that. I want the LE for the case really.
I just ask about the Gamestop.ie specialisations thing because it's surprising.
StalkerUKCG said:
Have we got any confirmation that the Vidoc is going to be uploaded tonight? Its like 9:30 here and I'm not going to stay awake if it's not coming out.
Click to expand...
Tonight U.S. time possibly, so perhaps make a nice thing to get up to?
 
H

Havok

Member
UNKNOWN iXi said:
Figured it was disagreeing, so I'll try to counter it as you bring up some seemingly good points.

If we go by your way of looking at it as a whole, then you shouldn't use those reasons you did to counter what I was saying because why would there be a Rocket/anything useful near a flag if it's auto pick-up? No competent Rocket/power weapon player would tread anywhere near an auto pick-up flag that you can't drop it.. So the chances of that happening seem fairly slim and not as problematic as shuffling through so many things to pick up a flag. The same goes for any other examples one could come up with that you would need to pick up the flag due to circumstance. Not only would these circumstances occur less-likely with the flag as auto pick-up, but what you said can also be argued in favor of having the auto pick-up. I won't bother explaining that though unless you want me to.
Click to expand...
But that's the thing. Why should a mechanic exists that causes players to actively avoid going near the objective? You said it yourself, if a power weapon player is just going to avoid going anywhere near the flag because he might accidentally get forced into the Shitty Flag Trap, then the system is busted. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, because I don't think anything that the auto pickup brings to the table meaningfully offsets the negatives as it exists in what we know to be the current system.
 
T

The P of Poland

Member
StalkerUKCG said:
Have we got any confirmation that the Vidoc is going to be uploaded tonight? Its like 9:30 here and I'm not going to stay awake if it's not coming out.
Click to expand...

If I were you, I would just go to bed. Remember, PAX is on Pacific time, so nighttime for them would be something along the lines of 4:30 in the morning for you. Even Eastern time where I am would be pushing midnight or 1 in England.
 
A

angelkimne

Member
The P of Poland said:
I think it is safe to say that H4 will either be the absolute best Halo game ever or the absolute worst.
343 have taken such a gamble in so many aspects of this game, I'm astonished. Kudos for them for having such a giant collective pair if nothing else.
Click to expand...
You are right in some respects; it's just a shame that 343 likes to gamble without actually innovating. To them, change must mean simply absorbing widely popular FPS elements while fiddling around with minor aspects of gameplay. No need to do anything inventive or exciting, 343... that would be risky.
 
FUNKNOWN iXi

FUNKNOWN iXi

Member
Havok said:
But that's the thing. Why should a mechanic exists that causes players to actively avoid going near the objective? I think we're going to have to agree to disagree, because I don't think anything that the auto pickup brings to the table meaningfully offsets the negatives as it exists in what we know to be the current system.
Click to expand...

My official standpoint on the matter:

  1. Auto pick-up should be removed
  2. Auto pick-up itself isn't a huge problem as everyone is making it seem
  3. Not being able to drop the flag should be changed, bottom line
  4. Waypoint over flag carrier's head should be removed, bottom line
Players who avoided the objective will avoid the objective (the action of picking up the flag) anyway, especially those with power weapons. That's really all I'm saying..

Ken said:
To dissuade people from throwing bodies at a contested flag only to move it 1 inch forwards.
Click to expand...

You reminded me of something else.. How many times have you guys jumped into a flag with so many dead bodies only to pick up a weapon instead of the flag in the heat of battle? A lot. With the auto pick-up, not only will that not happen anymore.. but now people with power weapons will hopefully play smarter and not charge in for a flag with a Rocket unless they're the last person remaining and has the ability to drop the flag to shoot that Rocket..
 
K

Ken

Member
Havok said:
But that's the thing. Why should a mechanic exists that causes players to actively avoid going near the objective? You said it yourself, if a power weapon player is just going to avoid going anywhere near the flag because he might accidentally get forced into the Shitty Flag Trap, then the system is busted. I think we're going to have to agree to disagree on this one, because I don't think anything that the auto pickup brings to the table meaningfully offsets the negatives as it exists in what we know to be the current system.
Click to expand...

To dissuade people from throwing bodies at a contested flag only to move it 1 inch forwards.

If the other team is there around the flag and ready to contest, you really should be avoiding the flag and setting up to fight, not jumping in to get shot up because you wanted to inch the flag closer and closer, the latter which seems to happen too often in past Halo games' online MM.
 
CreateNowSleepLater

CreateNowSleepLater

Member
You know I am all for a little change but with this size dev team and basically altering the Reach engine is there anything NEW that you 343 guys didn't rip off from COD?

I mean auto turrets, really? Slight of hand perks?
 
O

op_ivy

Fallen Xbot (cannot continue gaining levels in this class)
jhferry said:
You know I am all for a little change but with this size dev team and basically altering the Reach engine is there anything NEW that you 343 guys didn't rip off from COD?

I mean auto turrets, really? Slight of hand perks?
Click to expand...

well... auto turret was in halo 3...
 
D

Devolution

Member
UNKNOWN iXi said:
My official standpoint on the matter:

  1. Auto pick-up should be removed
  2. Auto pick-up isn't a huge problem as everyone is making it seem
  3. Not being able to drop the flag should be changed, bottom line
  4. Waypoint over flag carrier's head should be removed, bottom line
Players who avoided the objective will avoid the objective (the action of picking up the flag) anyway, especially those with power weapons. That's really all I'm saying..
Click to expand...

Auto-pick up is a big problem if it negatively impacts where you want to go or stand just to avoid it even if you want to kill people. Think about asylum and how you would want to clear out people ducking in the back. Now you only nade it because you don't want to get to close to the flag, but you accidentally pick it up and now you're given a pistol. It would just make securing flag all the way back to the base harder.



Ken said:
To dissuade people from throwing bodies at a contested flag only to move it 1 inch forwards.

If the other team is there around the flag and ready to contest, you really should be avoiding the flag and setting up to fight, not jumping in to get shot up because you wanted to inch the flag closer and closer, the latter which seems to happen too often in past Halo games' online MM.
Click to expand...

Depending on where it is it could be a great vantage point to fire upon your enemies before picking it up. Now there is no choice.
 
K

Ken

Member
jhferry said:
You know I am all for a little change but with this size dev team and basically altering the Reach engine [U]is there anything NEW that you 343 guys didn't rip off from COD[/U]?

I mean auto turrets, really? Slight of hand perks?
Click to expand...

A story?

Devolution said:
Depending on where it is it could be a great vantage point to fire upon your enemies before picking it up. Now there is no choice.
Click to expand...

Then it's probably a good spot to grab the flag and move with it too, and not sit around poking the other team.

Honestly though, I haven't played a significant amount of Halo in a very long time so all of this is just theory.
 
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