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Halo |OT8| A Salt on the Control Room

X

xxjuicesxx

Member
FyreWulff said:
I remember a game that had real time physics, awesome AI, and a driving sequence that was awesome.

It was called Halo
and also Perfect Dark
Click to expand...

BAHAHAHAHAHA. Just spit chinese food everywhere at work. Shit.

Tawpgun said:
Party chat should be disabled in some playlists in Halo 4. Especially the more competitive ones.

CS:GO doesn't have party chat and its SO refreshing to hear new people in gamechat.
Click to expand...

Hell yes that would be awesome. Any Ranked playlist. Should require you to join in and chat with your team. Otherwise its fucking embarassing to call it "TEAM X"
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
Party chat should be disabled in some playlists in Halo 4. Especially the more competitive ones.

CS:GO doesn't have party chat and its SO refreshing to hear new people in gamechat.
 
W

Woorloog

Banned
xxjuicesxx said:
BAHAHAHAHAHA. Just spit chinese food everywhere at work. Shit.
Click to expand...

Halo CE or Perfect Dark?

When Halo CE came, it did have pretty good AI for its time. Now? Can't remember the last time when i saw the AI do something i could think as intelligent.

Haven't played PD.
 
L

LD2k

Neo Member
Tawpgun said:
Party chat should be disabled in some playlists in Halo 4. Especially the more competitive ones.

CS:GO doesn't have party chat and its SO refreshing to hear new people in gamechat.
Click to expand...
Agree. I miss the days of Halo 2 where everyone was interacting (idiots, aside, of course).
 
Vire

Vire

Member
Tawpgun said:
Party chat should be disabled in some playlists in Halo 4. Especially the more competitive ones.

CS:GO doesn't have party chat and its SO refreshing to hear new people in gamechat.
Click to expand...
Hell naw. I want to be able to ask my best friend how his wife and kids are doing without being harassed by some 8 year old. Party chat is a godsend.
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
Yeah, that's also in the context of "at the time".

PD's single player AI has noticably aged but nobody has yet to top their multiplayer bots, not even Perfect Dark Zero. Timesplitters almost got there but bots could do combat rolls while you could not, which I actually got to ask Max Dyckhoff about on Reddit.

He had something interesting to note about Reach recently on there:

Well I'm no longer at Bungie, but yes the behaviour tree (not an FSM :) got bigger from Halo 3 to ODST to Reach. More special case behaviours were added, big monolithic behaviours were abstracted into constituent parts for reusability and tweakability, and with Reach I added a big new branch to the tree for the flying combat AI which was super fun.
Click to expand...
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
Vire said:
Hell naw. I want to be able to ask my best friend how his wife and kids are doing without being harassed by some 8 year old. Party chat is a godsend.
Click to expand...

Play the party chat enabled playlists. Don't gimp your team because you want to talk to your friend. Or have your friend play with you and mute anyone you find annoying. Simple easy fixes.
 
B

Blueblur1

Member
After listening to the samples, I think I probably will only buy the regular OST sometime after the game is out. $75 is a ridiculous price and I'm not liking some of the samples I've heard.
 
B

Brolic Gaoler

formerly Alienshogun
FyreWulff said:
I remember a game that had real time physics, awesome AI, and a driving sequence that was awesome.

It was called Halo
and also Perfect Dark
Click to expand...

I remember coming home from deployment, and my Xbox bundle was there waiting for me thanks to my awesome wife. It included Perfect Dark. I put it in, played for 15 minutes and immediately shut if off when bodies kept glitching and spazzing all over the place when I killed them.

Fuck that game.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
Tawpgun said:
Play the party chat enabled playlists. Don't gimp your team because you want to talk to your friend. Or have your friend play with you and mute anyone you find annoying. Simple easy fixes.
Click to expand...

Or just don't force people into a social environment that they don't want to be a part of.
 
N

NobleGundam

Banned
ViewtifulJC said:
My Xbox 360 disc drive keeps getting stuck. I have to put a butter knife in that sumbitch to get it open nowadays

The sooner Halo 4 comes out and I never have to swap discs again, the better
Click to expand...
Its a design flaw with the arcade version 360. I have the exact same problem and so do others that have said they're having the same issue. It sucks, but its best to leave your disc in to open it easier, which its a pain without any disc within the tray. Don't put a butter knife, oh god the horror!
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
Alienshogun said:
I remember coming home from deployment, and my Xbox bundle was there waiting for me thanks to my awesome wife. It included Perfect Dark. I put it in, played for 15 minutes and immediately shut if off when bodies kept glitching and spazzing all over the place when I killed them.

Fuck that game.
Click to expand...

That's Perfect Dark Zero you're thinking of. The Perfect Dark that nobody likes, not even Rare. Original game didn't have body physics.
 
M

Myyke

Neo Member
Tawpgun said:
Play the party chat enabled playlists. Don't gimp your team because you want to talk to your friend. Or have your friend play with you and mute anyone you find annoying. Simple easy fixes.
Click to expand...

If I'm not playing in a party, I usually just leave my mic unplugged. So would my xbox just wag its finger at me until I plugged my headset back in?
 
B

blamite

Member
New OST stuff sounds AMAZING. The electronic style really works great with the type of story I imagine we'll be getting.

Too bad I can't get the remix disc edition without going broke and starving to death. :(
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
Well, I went looking for max's comments on reddit, which requires me to page through his account's comments because reddit doesn't seem to have comment-level search. A big comment of his caught my eye, where he mentions some neat tidbits about Halo.

http://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/com...how_the_ai_in_the_original_fear_works/c5g5s4o

On Halo 3:

maxd said:
It was probably the FSM for Halo 2, I probably know the one you're referring to. I actually didn't work on Halo 2, I started during the Halo 3 days. The behaviour tree for Halo 3 would not even nearly fit on a single slide. There were over 200 behaviours when the game shipped. :)
Click to expand...


On AI behavior:

maxd said:
Regardless for the sake of everyone else we had the example, from Halo (2?), of the enemies running away when the "elite" mob was killed. The initial intention was to make the mobs seem smart, like they had morale, but in testing people kept on reporting it as a bug, even after you added graphics and voice overs to signify why they were running away.
Click to expand...
Totally. And you have no idea how frustrating it was. The leadership model in Halo 3 was pretty complex; leaders would absorb nearby units, if a leader died the nearby units would break, they had various complex behaviours, they would eventually gain their confidence and start attacking again. But ultimately, even when it was telegraphed well, it just wasn't as fun as it should be.
State changes in an encounter need to be big, well telegraphed and repeatable. If a Grunt kamikazes you (runs at you screaming with lit plasma grenades held high) 10% of the time that you kill the leader, the player will virtually never see it, he will die randomly, he'll get frustrated, and quit playing. So we cranked it up to 50% of the time, and now we got people saying "why didn't a Grunt kamikaze me? did I not kill the leader? shit, where's the leader?"
So we made it 100% of the time, and it's still my favourite AI behaviour to date (and I whipped it up in like an hour; the code is horrible).
Click to expand...

On Brutes:

maxd said:
The other example was creating a more intelligent Brute. In testing with players the value that effected the perceived "intelligence" of the Brute was simply the HP. If I remember the diagrams correctly adding more HP to the Brute had all the testers reporting the Brute as more intelligent, challenging, and enjoyable.
Click to expand...
Agreed! The same goes for difficulty; AI are "more difficult" if they take more damage and cause more damage. That is (to me) not "more fun" though, and nor was the bullet sponge "intelligent" Brute more fun. In Halo 3, ODST and Reach we spent a lot of time removing that and instead working on more fun and readable behaviours that the player would see as fun, and consequently intelligent. Things like long jumps, big melee charges, dodging as they run at you, more dives, bracing from grenades, etc. Personally I think it paid off!
Click to expand...
 
E

ElzarTheBam

Member
Myyke said:
If I'm not playing in a party, I usually just leave my mic unplugged. So would my xbox just wag its finger at me until I plugged my headset back in?
Click to expand...

Had trouble finding a game on it as a group of five, didn't help that Andy was talking about jittering again (sp?), was not impressed by the game tbh, aim acceleration was awful, and it gave me and Xand nausea.

In other words, I'll try it with you tomorrow, also don't make me pester you about BS2.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
Tawpgun said:
Party chat should be disabled in some playlists in Halo 4. Especially the more competitive ones.

CS:GO doesn't have party chat and its SO refreshing to hear new people in gamechat.
Click to expand...
Totally agree.
 
W

Woorloog

Banned
FyreWulff said:
Well, I went looking for max's comments on reddit, which requires me to page through his account's comments because reddit doesn't seem to have comment-level search. A big comment of his caught my eye, where he mentions some neat tidbits about Halo.

http://www.reddit.com/r/gamedev/com...how_the_ai_in_the_original_fear_works/c5g5s4o

On Halo 3:

On AI behavior:

On Brutes:
Click to expand...

Interesting stuff.

I never liked Grunts always kamikaziing after killing their leader... I think they should have either kamikazeed, run away or doing some third options (say, freezing in panic).
Would have made them more believable, more variety. Though i completly understand how testing that is difficult...
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
kittens said:
Totally agree.
Click to expand...

Yeah, while party chat is convienent and awesome, it really did kill the chatter and social aspect that used to occur while playing matchmaking.

Woorloog said:
Interesting stuff.

I never liked Grunts always kamikaziing after killing their leader... I think they should have either kamikazeed, run away or doing some third options (say, freezing in panic).
Would have made them more believable, more variety. Though i completly understand how testing that is difficult...
Click to expand...

Yup. Like he said, you make it too rare / "realistic" and players can end up confused. Sometimes something works better if it always happens the same way in videogames. One of the things that makes balancing an AI an art.
 
W

Woorloog

Banned
FyreWulff said:
Yup. Like he said, you make it too rare / "realistic" and players can end up confused. Sometimes something works better if it always happens the same way in videogames. One of the things that makes balancing an AI an art.
Click to expand...

If i were a developer, i'd say screw players and make things more realistic. Live with it.
Not sure if i'd make a good developer for that reason... too bad being a video game desinger/developer is something i want to be. Probably. I have a lot of interests.
 
T

thezerofire

Banned
Woorloog said:
If i were a developer, i'd say screw players and make things more realistic. Live with it.
Not sure if i'd make a good developer for that reason... too bad being a video game desinger/developer is something i want to be. Probably. I have a lot of interests.
Click to expand...
You'd like Arma I think

edit: and Steel Battalion
 
W

Woorloog

Banned
thezerofire said:
You'd like Arma I think
Click to expand...

I guess, i did like Operation Flashpoint.
Of course i nearly cannot stand the issues it has... and what i hear ARMA has... Not to mention i don't have a machine capable of running it. Can't even run ARMA Armed Assault properly...
EDIT would have liked Steel Battalion but i never got it, too late to original Xbox :/ Also it would have been too expensive :/ EDIT do no suggest the new "Steel Battalion" game to me. Kinectshit.

EDIT realistic as in the AI behaviour, not gameplay itself necessarily.
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
Steelyuhas said:
Or just don't force people into a social environment that they don't want to be a part of.
Click to expand...

I wouldn't. It'd be giving people options. Those who want a more social experience hop in playlists that are party chat disabled. Those who find the mute button too much work can be in party chat enabled playlists.

Myyke said:
If I'm not playing in a party, I usually just leave my mic unplugged. So would my xbox just wag its finger at me until I plugged my headset back in?
Click to expand...

You can play with no mic. It just disables party chat. Though I wonder if you can require a mic...
 
W

Woorloog

Banned
Can't stop listening to Awakening sample. For some reason it is just something i really, really like.
EDIT it bothers me why i cannot figure out why i like something. I know myself very, very well but don't know why i like certain things...
 
F

FyreWulff

Member
Tawpgun said:
I wouldn't. It'd be giving people options. Those who want a more social experience hop in playlists that are party chat disabled. Those who find the mute button too much work can be in party chat enabled playlists.



You can play with no mic. It just disables party chat. Though I wonder if you can require a mic...
Click to expand...

You can read the state of the mic, so in theory you could require it.. however, people could circumvent it by just plugging in a mic and just pushing the switch to mute or putting in just the plug cut off a dead headset.
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
FyreWulff said:
You can read the state of the mic, so in theory you could require it.. however, people could circumvent it by just plugging in a mic and just pushing the switch to mute or putting in just the plug cut off a dead headset.
Click to expand...

Thats fine. Requiring party chat would be good enough.
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
Tawpgun said:
I wouldn't. It'd be giving people options. Those who want a more social experience hop in playlists that are party chat disabled. Those who find the mute button too much work can be in party chat enabled playlists.
Click to expand...

How are you giving people options by restricting their options?
 
A

Arnie

Member
No matter how underwhelmed I am so far about the Halo 4 soundtrack, this Gui Boratto remix of Awakening is fucking brilliant.
 
K

kittens

Unconfirmed Member
Steelyuhas said:
How are you giving people options by restricting their options?
Click to expand...
If people want to play in a ranked list that is about team work, awesome. They need to not be in party chat. If they want to be in party chat, they can play other playlists. They have options still, and it encourages team work and communication in the ranked lists. Yay.

GrimBrother One said:
Super stoked about the James Iha remix!

#Pumpkinslove
Click to expand...
He was my first boy crush. #dearlivejournal
 
P

Poker Face

Member
tRN39.png
 
K

Korosenai

Member
Was listening to the To Galaxy remix (the one with the wub wub), and noticed these two comments:

"Now we get to the good stuff... Master Chief doesn't rave :p"

"this part is really good i like it the begining sounds like he is in a bar in mass effect"
 
S

Steelyuhas

Member
Tawpgun said:
Because I'm giving options to both sides as opposed to screwing out the people who miss the days when people used to talk on XBL.
Click to expand...

Instead of giving common uniform options for voice chat, you'd fragment and restrict options based on different playlists.

I guess we just flat-out disagree on this.
kittens said:
If people want to play in a ranked list that is about team work, awesome. They need to not be in party chat. If they want to be in party chat, they can play other playlists. They have options still, and it encourages team work and communication in the ranked lists. Yay.
Click to expand...
I still laugh pretty hard when people say "ranked playlists".
 
T

Tawpgun

Member
Steelyuhas said:
Instead of giving common uniform options for voice chat, you'd fragment and restrict options based on different playlists.

I guess we just flat-out disagree on this.
Click to expand...

It'd only matter in the more competitive playlists where you probably should be talking about the game and not how your day was.
 
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