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[radrelic]

The thing that jumps out at me with Reach is how much Bungie continues to try to make individual skill less important in favor of team oriented play.

There's a reason why we've gone from 3 shot kill in Halo 1 to now 5 shots in Reach. Teamplay is being REQUIRED by Bungie. It's harder to finish a guy off in Reach without the help of teammates due to the 5 shot kills, reticule bloom, and armor abilities.

Teamplay > Individual skill

The days of out BRing someone are over.

 

[Teknoman]

Or just toss a grenade at them right before they emerge.

Yeah Armor lock is nice, but its in no way overpowered. Either leave the locked person alone, distance yourself for a counter attack, or time a nade toss. Every armor ability has it's strengths and weaknesses, which is what makes them so cool.

Truly combat evolved.

 

[The Librarian]

I think it's actually much more exciting having to fight for every inch of ground. Just grabbing the flag and having a nice, safe run is boring; having to fight through the enemy team is so much more fun and much more satisfying when you finally get the cap.

Just because it doesn't involve inching the flag forward it has to be a safe run? My main problem is that, the way 1 Flag is on Powerhouse, it really only gives the attack team one good path to take the flag, and that's quite boring.

 

[Not a Jellyfish]

Someone armor locks ->wait till in finishes and pwn them

That just means that person doesn't have any friends or a good team to roll with.

Play Arena with friends we have been going in groups of 2 with at least one person in each group having Armor Lock. Armor Lock player charges, activates his lock and the other player goes in a mops up the people waiting for his friend to get out of lock. People were getting pretty pissed at us for it. :lol

 

[GhaleonEB]

I'm a fan of one-sided objective games too, but none are any fun with the maps available. Like you've said before (paraphrasing here), it's no fun on Sword Base because there are only two ways in, both from the front, and there isn't enough room for strategy except charging in. It's no fun on powerhouse either (see above).

I generally agree, and both maps could be fixed for 1-Flag with a small change. The same change to each, actually.

On Sword Base, remove the barrier at the top of the lift behind the flag. That way attackers have a third way in: down the chute.

Likewise on Powerhouse, open up a hole in the roof - remove one of the fans - so players could drop down into the flag room.

In both cases, that would mean the defending team can't just all hide right by the flag, and would instead have to fan out and defend parts of the map from attack. On Powerhouse especially, there's no way to bank grenades over to the corner of the room the flag is in, which means the defending team has no motivation to leave. Camping the flag is a safe and dependable strategy, so every game comes down to who can rush the room best, rather than who can peel away the defenses around it.

 

[remz]

The thing that jumps out at me with Reach is how much Bungie continues to try to make individual skill less important in favor of team oriented play.

There's a reason why we've gone from 3 shot kill in Halo 1 to now 5 shots in Reach. Teamplay is being REQUIRED by Bungie. It's harder to finish a guy off in Reach without the help of teammates due to the 5 shot kills, reticule bloom, and armor abilities.

Teamplay > Individual skill

The days of out BRing someone are over.

I for one, welcome out team play overlords.

 

[TheFLYINGManga_Ka]

Well, finally picked up ODST today! Can't wait to try it online!

Also, quick question to you guys:

What do you think is better so far, Reach or Halo 3's multiplayer? Is it the same or is there a huge improvement based on the beta?

Do you guys see people defecting to Reach's multiplayer when it comes out?

 

[zero margin]

The days of out BRing someone are over.

drop crouch shots imo.

 

[Nelo Ice]

man im on beta entry overkill

i got in early with a F&F code but ive had a odst copy since launch and i just got another copy thanks to that imagine cup sign up contest :lol

well im gonna lend my extra copy to a cousin so he can play the beta and then before the gamestop offer ends im gonna hopefully be able to trade both odsts to get red dead for $20 then return it later for credit since im already getting it in from gs.com

 

[remz]

That just means that person doesn't have any friends or a good team to roll with.

Play Arena with friends we have been going in groups of 2 with at least one person in each group having Armor Lock. Armor Lock player charges, activates his lock and the other player goes in a mops up the people waiting for his friend to get out of lock. People were getting pretty pissed at us for it. :lol

but if there was a group of two players taking on armor lock guy, they could probably handle his friend, then nab the armor lock guy when he finishes too.

It's not useless, but armor lock isn't OP either.

 

[The Librarian]

Uh, no. I would hardly call Valhalla a 'balanced' map.

Whatever, dude. Valhalla is as balanced as a symmetrical map can get.

I generally agree, and both maps could be fixed for 1-Flag with a small change. The same change to each, actually.

On Sword Base, remove the barrier at the top of the lift behind the flag. That way attackers have a third way in: down the chute.

Likewise on Powerhouse, open up a hole in the roof - remove one of the fans - so players could drop down into the flag room.

In both cases, that would mean the defending team can't just all hide right by the flag, and would instead have to fan out and defend parts of the map from attack. On Powerhouse especially, there's no way to bank grenades over to the corner of the room the flag is in, which means the defending team has no motivation to leave. Camping the flag is a safe and dependable strategy, so every game comes down to who can rush the room best, rather than who can peel away the defenses around it.

Yup. I also think moving the attacking team's score point on Powerhouse to the bridge in the back, on the opposite side of the map from the power house, would make 1 Flag play a lot better. It give more incentive to the attacking team to use more than just one path all the time.

 

[soldat7]

Valhalla is light years ahead of Blood Gulch in design and balance.

Uh, no. I would hardly call Valhalla a 'balanced' map.

Just because it doesn't involve inching the flag forward it has to be a safe run? My main problem is that, the way 1 Flag is on Powerhouse, it really only gives the attack team one good path to take the flag, and that's quite boring.

I count four ways into the base.

 

[pringles]

Yeah Armor lock is nice, but its in no way overpowered. Either leave the locked person alone, distance yourself for a counter attack, or time a nade toss. Every armor ability has it's strengths and weaknesses, which is what makes them so cool.

Yes, armor lock sucks if the player is alone, uses the full lenght of the lock and you have the opportunity to get some distance to him for a well time grenade toss. However, if he rushes you, armor locks and gets some backup.. that's another story. Or if you're in a small enclosed space, he comes in, you shoot him a couple of times, he ALs quickly then emerges and keeps firing while you most likely have to reload and is F'ed.

Basically good players with a bit of teamwork can wreak havoc with AL.
I don't think they need to make massive changes to it, just tweaks..

 

[Kapura]

Uh, no. I would hardly call Valhalla a 'balanced' map.

Oh yeah? Why not? "Laser" doesn't count as an answer, just FYI.

 

[zero margin]

That just means that person doesn't have any friends or a good team to roll with.

Play Arena with friends we have been going in groups of 2 with at least one person in each group having Armor Lock. Armor Lock player charges, activates his lock and the other player goes in a mops up the people waiting for his friend to get out of lock. People were getting pretty pissed at us for it. :lol

Who drew the short straw and had to be the armor lock user? I guess you could look at it as sacrificing so your buddies get more kills than you.

 

[Oozer3993]

The thing that jumps out at me with Reach is how much Bungie continues to try to make individual skill less important in favor of team oriented play.

There's a reason why we've gone from 3 shot kill in Halo 1 to now 5 shots in Reach. Teamplay is being REQUIRED by Bungie. It's harder to finish a guy off in Reach without the help of teammates due to the 5 shot kills, reticule bloom, and armor abilities.

Teamplay > Individual skill

The days of out BRing someone are over.

The pistol's ability to kill in 3 shots was not intended. That was a by-product of increasing the gun's damage to make it more worthwhile in Campaign.

Well, finally picked up ODST today! Can't wait to try it online!

Also, quick question to you guys:

What do you think is better so far, Reach or Halo 3's multiplayer? Is it the same or is there a huge improvement based on the beta?

Do you guys see people defecting to Reach's multiplayer when it comes out?

In my opinion it's a bigger jump than from any other Halo game. And it's inevitable that people will defect to Reach once it comes out. That's just how it works.

Personally, I much prefer Halo 3.

 

[Hydranockz]

Are the division rankings region speific or something? I have looked at people's links and only seen their rank. I have put in my 3 days, am I missing something?

 

[Not a Jellyfish]

but if there was a group of two players taking on armor lock guy, they could probably handle his friend, then nab the armor lock guy when he finishes too.

It's not useless, but armor lock isn't OP either.

I am not saying it is OP but more that some players just don't know how to deal with it at all.

Two players could take care of the friend but not when he is Invisible or have Armor Lock himself, that is the beauty of it. He does damage then he goes into lock while the other one pops out of his, seems like lots of players online are just dumbfounded when they come across more than one person with Armor Lock.

 

[The Librarian]

I count four ways into the base.

Hm. Apparently my post is misleading. I said for the attacking to take the flag, as in, what path they take to get the flag to get to their score point. It's always through Ridge.

 

[Tashi]

Will we be able to go into Invasion with a 12 person party and just play against each other like in Grab bag?

Also, I am loving the DMR more and more every day. Just 5 shotting people left and right. I've noticed some shots not registering which really throws me off. There's nothing that can be done about terrible internet connections though.

Played some more grab bag today...

BRING ON INVASION!!!

 

[Not a Jellyfish]

Who drew the short straw and had to be the armor lock user? I guess you could look at it as sacrificing so your buddies get more kills than you.

Becomes more of player preference but the Lock user gets a lot of assist.

 

[Trickster]

If they're gonna be cheese dicks then yeah I could see a problem in that regard, that would take some serious coordination on there part though. Talking olympic synchronized swimming levels.

Really? "hey dude, armor lock when we run into an enemy, when I armory lock, you go out of armor lock and attack them"

Doesn't seem so hard to coordinate in my eyes :lol

 

[soldat7]

Oh yeah? Why not? "Laser" doesn't count as an answer, just FYI.

 

[GhaleonEB]

I count four ways into the base.

The problem is the defending team has no motivation to pull out of the flag room and prevent attack. On all good CTF maps, the defending team is best off fanning out a bit to head off attack routes, with a player or two back as a fail safe. But those fail safes are vulnerable to attack at range. On Powerhouse, the flag defenders cannot be engaged until you enter the flag room. An open roof, a way to bank grenades around the corner, or a window or two on the facing side of the flag room would address that problem and force defenders to fan out.

 

[The Librarian]

Not sure what you're getting at, but alright!

 

[zero margin]

Becomes more of player preference but the Lock user gets a lot of assist.

Yeah I could see it as a viable tactic. Just messing.

EDIT - oooh pictures...

 

[dslgunstar]

Will we be able to go into Invasion with a 12 person party and just play against each other like in Grab bag?

Also, I am loving the DMR more and more every day. Just 5 shotting people left and right. I've noticed some shots not registering which really throws me off. There's nothing that can be done about terrible internet connections though.

Played some more grab bag today...

BRING ON INVASION!!!

What method are you using for the 5-shot DMR kills? Are you hammering out the first four shots as fast as possible and then waiting for the last shot, or shot-wait-shot-wait-shot...the whole way through?

I really like the DMR, but find it a little inconsistent. Im thinking it would be better as a four-shot (to differentiate it further from the magnum) but if 5-shot kills eventually become second nature, then doing so may make it overpowered.

Thanks!

 

[Hydranockz]

We are expecting good stuff from urk tonight yeah? Mancannon has restrained himself.

 

[soldat7]

What do you think is better so far, Reach or Halo 3's multiplayer? Is it the same or is there a huge improvement based on the beta?

Reach is superior to Halo 3 in almost every way. It's a huge improvement in almost every category that I've seen. Keep in mind, there's a lot to the Reach multiplayer experience that we haven't seen and probably won't see until the official launch.

 

[Shanadeus]

Well, finally picked up ODST today! Can't wait to try it online!

Also, quick question to you guys:

What do you think is better so far, Reach or Halo 3's multiplayer? Is it the same or is there a huge improvement based on the beta?

Do you guys see people defecting to Reach's multiplayer when it comes out?

Covieslayer is miles better than anyhting in Halo 3.

 

[pringles]

Covieslayer is miles better than anyhting in Halo 3.

I've only gotten 1 game of Covieslayer

It was AWESOME.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

The pistol's ability to kill in 3 shots was not intended. That was a by-product of increasing the gun's damage to make it more worthwhile in Campaign.



In my opinion it's a bigger jump than from any other Halo game. And it's inevitable that people will defect to Reach once it comes out. That's just how it works.

Personally, I much prefer Halo 3.

Same but I see myself making the switch, it sucks a little because I know Halo 3 will be pretty much dead this time next year =(

Even if the Pistol wasnt intentional, it was awesome and had a lot to do with its popularity.

 

[zero margin]

Really? "hey dude, armor lock when we run into an enemy, when I armory lock, you go out of armor lock and attack them"

Doesn't seem so hard to coordinate in my eyes :lol

Sure but I was looking at the big picture, your way has a lot of assumptions.

For instance!

1) you're both looking the same way
2) you're doing this with the assumption that one (or more) of their teammate isn't somewhere lurking ready to assassinate you guys after you do the armor lock dance.
3) your armor lock has no cool down it seems

Maybe more but I don't want to belabor it. Maybe not olympic level I'll concede.

 

[Striker]

Oh yeah? Why not? "Laser" doesn't count as an answer, just FYI.

Why wouldn't Coagulation be considered balanced, in your mind? Each map can occur by chance of spawn camping with a Sniper/Laser/lock-on Rockets, vehicle spawn camp, or via air by Banshee. The same things can happen at Valhalla.

Personally, I much prefer Halo 3.

Lots of people who played Halo 2 and ran to play Halo 3 felt the same way. I still prefer Halo 2 over 3. You will find these stances all over the place.

re: Covie Slayer

I like it too, despite some guys evading so much. I hope the cool down is more of a fraction of what it currently is.

 

[alisdair]

The problem is the defending team has no motivation to pull out of the flag room and prevent attack.

Agreed, especially with stupidly short respawn times, which I'm sure is just an oversight.

I think Powerhouse is an assault map, or maybe territories. Either could work really well, but flag really won't unless they make major changes.

 

[timmytheman123]

Yeah but how exactly do you know when they are going to finish their armor lock? I still think that using sprint (which I use almost all the time) does not give use as much offensive insensitive compared to using camo or armor lock

 

[Hydranockz]

We are expecting good stuff from urk tonight yeah? Mancannon has restrained himself.

It's only Thursday... mega sadface

 

[timmytheman123]

Yeah I did enjoy covy slayer alot but I have only played it once.

 

[soldat7]

I still prefer Halo 2 over 3.

Me too.

[insert avatar quote here]

 

[-tetsuo-]

Armor lock is crazy overpowered but otherwise I think they're balanced.

How? If you are alone all it does is let someone get behind for an assasination.

 

[Oozer3993]

How? If you are alone all it does is let someone get behind for an assasination.

I can count the number of times I've come across a long person using Armor Lock on 1 hand. There's always at least 1 teammate near by who can pick you off before the Armor Lock wears off. And the person in Armor Lock can move the camera around so that he comes out of it facing his attacker, taking away the possibility of assassination.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

Armor Lock needs so much fixing -_-.

Being able to use it twice in one charge?
Invulnerability for a second before and after using it? (whoever at Bungie thought this up was a couple pieces short of a chess game)
GAINING shield when holding it down?
Immune to plasma grenades even though they hit you before you AL'd?

To anyone decent here, if you really want to see how LOL-worthy AL is, just play with a good team of 4 players and have everyone use it. It's absolutely hilariously bad.

Really, any team that all use jetpacks, camo, or whatever kills the fun factor in this game. I have no idea what bungie could do to help this, but it really needs looking into. And no, it's not a case of "WELL GOSH JUST OUTPLAY THEM LOLZ".

 

[Hydranockz]

Armor Lock needs so much fixing -_-.

Being able to use it twice in one charge?
Invulnerability for a second before and after using it? (whoever at Bungie thought this up was a couple pieces short of a chess game)
GAINING shield when holding it down?
Immune to plasma grenades even though they hit you before you AL'd?

To anyone decent here, if you really want to see how LOL-worthy AL is, just play with a good team of 4 players and have everyone use it. It's absolutely hilariously bad.

Really, any team that all use jetpacks, camo, or whatever kills the fun factor in this game. I have no idea what bungie could do to help this, but it really needs looking into.

They all have pro's and cons. Decent players minimise the cons. It's just natural.

 

[The Librarian]

I miss the sound effect that made the guns sound different when fired the farther away you were from them.

 

[G_Berry]

If you have full health and full shields, a single 'nade will NOT kill you. However, if some of your health is already depleted (regardless of shield strength), that's a different story.

Urk's extensive Beta testing showed that it actually takes 3 grenades to kill a player when you start with full health/shield and let your shields recharge between nades.

That said, our testing in the latest 'main' branch build just now had different results.

EDIT: Yes, referring only to Frag Grenades here.

Wow nades are SO overpowered. /sarcasm

I guess people like jumping all over the place like morons throwing frags that do jack shit all while spamming the trigger in an attempt to get a head shot. And if that fails, lag melee lunge until someone drops!

I'm sorry but Halo 3 was pretty shit. The netcode was shit, the nades were shit and it was just generally horrid to play.

Reach is quicker, guns and explosives do more damage and more importantly people actually DIE when they should. There are hardly any times now where you think, fuck, that guy should be dead WTF is going on with this pos game.

Yeah the nades do more damage but that's a good thing! There were plenty of times in halo 3 where you would throw a nade, it does fuck all, the enemy throws one and for some reason his actually works. At least now when you hurl a frag bomb you know someone will get fucked up.

The evidence proves it. Get a health pack, let your shields recharge and stop whining.

 

[BrLvgThrChmstry]

How? If you are alone all it does is let someone get behind for an assasination.

Most people refuse to think logically. Just wait, not every adversary/objective you face requires you to take it head on. I'm not a armor lock user (90% Scout, 10% Stalker most of the time) but I definitely do not agree with Armor Lock being overpowered.

 

[-tetsuo-]

I can count the number of times I've come across a long person using Armor Lock on 1 hand. There's always at least 1 teammate near by who can pick you off before the Armor Lock wears off. And the person in Armor Lock can move the camera around so that he comes out of it facing his attacker, taking away the possibility of assassination.

Well then it was 2 on one and you probably would have died anyway. If you sit there and fight two people alone then you are already at a disadvantage, no armor lock needed.

 

[FunkyMunkey]

Reach is quicker, guns and explosives do more damage and more importantly people actually DIE when they should. There are hardly any times now where you think, fuck, that guy should be dead WTF is going on with this pos game.

You should play some Team SWAT before you talk.

That does not work. I've tried it half a dozen times and a punch to the back as they emerge from Armor Lock deals no damage and they just turn around and punch me twice. That's one of the big reasons I think it's overpowered.

Otherwise "if they're alone" is the key part of your sentence. It's in combination with teammates that AL becomes too powerful.

Which is funny considering all the apologists here stating how important team play is.

And stop whining! Being able to warp 180 degrees and beat you down/shoot you is part of the AA! As is being invulnerable. You should learn to play or something silly.

I think a team should only be allowed like 3 of any one ability. Played a team of all camo users today and damn did it suck.

All AA's have their Pros and Cons....... :lol I can't keep a straight face.

 

[pringles]

How? If you are alone all it does is let someone get behind for an assasination.

That does not work. I've tried it half a dozen times and a punch to the back as they emerge from Armor Lock deals no damage and they just turn around and punch me twice. That's one of the big reasons I think it's overpowered.

Otherwise "if they're alone" is the key part of your sentence. It's in combination with teammates that AL becomes too powerful.

 

[Kibbles]

I miss the sound effect that made the guns sound different when fired the farther away you were from them.

Same here. Distant battle sounds Bungle, get it in.