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Halo: Reach |OT6| There Are Those Who Said This Day Would Never Come
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
I'm not going to sit here and say it's perfect neither. People tend to think that way, but whatever. It had the best set of maps, overall weapon (including combat against vehicles) sandbox, and gametypes in my view. Not really hard to figure out.Devolution said:
But in the same token, I try to look at these point of views of where "I rather spawn with an AR in Halo 3" and I'm trying really hard to understand. I don't think I'm overblowing it, but the gun was a total piece of shit.
Devolution
Member
reggie said:
If someone liked that they could take people on with one weapon and still use those abilities in CE (in close range) the fact that they lost those abilities in h2 would piss them off. That's the point to take home here, at least from me.
Striker said:
Oh I don't get the I'd rather spawn with an AR jive either. I'd rather spawn with a precision weapon like CE, which isn't perfect for every firefight I engage in, but still well rounded and fair for everyone to spawn with, even as they pick up weapons on the map. Nothing was more annoying to me than to spawn with SMG/AR only to be picked off by people who horded BRs/Carbine the whole game.
Maps are half of what make a multiplayer game great. Saying that Reach's multiplayer is great minus the awful, awful maps is like saying that driving a Ferrari down a pothole-filled dirt road with fallen trees blocking the way is fun, even if I agreed with you about the gameplay.
Also in this analogy there are people throwing (verbal) fecal matter at your windshield.
Also in this analogy there are people throwing (verbal) fecal matter at your windshield.
wwm0nkey said:
Every Halo game has been good. Some moreso than others. If you honestly think Reach is a bad game you need to broaden your horizons.
I never bought the whole balancing argument for duals that since you can't melee or throw grenades. You can do those things if the need arises, it just forces you to drop your weapon. The only time I would dual wield is if I hadn't found a BR yet.
Havok said:
Maps are a big part of it but good maps are worthless without good gameplay. Halo 2 had enough issues that the maps were wasted on it.
Reagan's BR
Banned
This guy.stephen08 said:
Hahaha.
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
TheOddOne said:
Congrats on becoming a developer, Frank!
thezerofire
Banned
I don't think we're saying that Reach is an objectively bad game. We're saying that compared to the other Halo games Reach is pretty bad.stephen08 said:
and I agree with the maps being a lot of the issues. MW3 is shipping with 16 maps and that's a pretty big reason of why I'm getting it.
wwm0nkey said:
That will certainly help matters. There are a number of great maps already in Reach though. Swordbase, Powerhouse, Reflection, Anchor 9, Tempest, Breakpoint, Highlands, Condemned, and then you have the Forge World remakes like Pinnacle and Asylum.
Even the "bad" maps don't hit the lows that past Halo games have hit IMO.
Devolution
Member
thezerofire said:
It's true. I think a lot of people miss h2 because there was
Beaver Creek (remake BUT STILL GOOD, looking at you FW)
Burial Mounds (didn't like it as much at the time seems so awesome compared to recent stuff)
Headlong
Lockout
Midship
Relic (again didn't like it much when I played it but it was definitely a more active btb map)
Sanctuary
Terminal
Turf
Warlock
Waterworks
Some in here also believe there were bad Halo games before Reach, too, and do not act as if Reach is the first bizarre design they have done.thezerofire said:
Maps were a large issue in in H3 and Reach - not necessarily by the count, but by quality.thezerofire said:
Halo 1 maps weren't very good, either. Halo 2 improved them in ever single fashion, notably Battle Creek and Blood Gulch. They even tried replicating Derelict into a decent experience.
I see where Stephen is coming from. Halo 2 had a fuckton of glitches. Button Combos (which I actually liked, despite being terrible at them) Super Jumping, super eazy to mod, melees not connecting...
But if I take a LAN game of Halo 2 and play a LAN game of Reach... I'd enjoy 2 a lot more.
I think technically and polish wise, Reach is the better built game. But design wise H2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> x 10 ^9001 Reach.
Honestly, the only thing holding 3 back from taking that spot was non-hitscan, spread, boring campaign (imo, I like story in campaign, but I recognize gameplay wise H3 was better) and inferior to Halo 2 maps.
The bolded, but this entire post, wat.
But if I take a LAN game of Halo 2 and play a LAN game of Reach... I'd enjoy 2 a lot more.
I think technically and polish wise, Reach is the better built game. But design wise H2 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> x 10 ^9001 Reach.
Honestly, the only thing holding 3 back from taking that spot was non-hitscan, spread, boring campaign (imo, I like story in campaign, but I recognize gameplay wise H3 was better) and inferior to Halo 2 maps.
Dude what.stephen08 said:
The bolded, but this entire post, wat.
thezerofire
Banned
one of the worst maps to ever see multiplayer gaming, and most of the ones you posted are DLC and really mediocre anywaystephen08 said:
and Pinnacle and Asylum are shitty remakes too.
stephen08 said:
The problem is, a maps playability is intrisically tied to the weapon sandbox and its functionality. When you have a game thats as slow as Reach, its really hard to get "good" maps that play well. It really only caters to a certain style of map; one's that have wide-open, medium range sight lines where teamshot rules.
Devolution
Member
stephen08 said:
Swordbase is frankly awful. The movement on that map is just ugh. Too much verticality in Halo maps without more avenues of movements like ramps is awful. Lifts don't really help that map at all.
Reflection is a sorry ass Ivory Tower which I never understood the allure for in the first place. The nades don't even bounce right on that map.
Breakpoint is a terribly awkward invasion map that suffers from objectives just being spawn, rush, die.
Highlands is a turtlefest.
Condemned would be okay if not for the middle anti-grav section that just screams: what's the point of the frame loss here?
Asylum is a terrible sanctuary remake that lets the snipers camp in the bases instead of mid because of sight lines.
stephen08 said:
How do you personally define a "great map"?
Because you honestly list maps that have little to do with one another apart from being terrible.
Be it frame rate, low gravity, poor flow, or unbalanced initial spawns... one can make a case for Powerhouse being a good one sided objective map, but apart from that you have crap for competitive game play when compared to previous map releases in Halo games.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
You guys are nuts. Reach has great multiplayer.
I loved Halo 2 as much as the next guy, and think it had the best maps, but dual-wielding focus in Halo 2 was way more of a downfall than anything in Reach MP. Halo 3 was a solid experience. Reach is better though.
I loved Halo 2 as much as the next guy, and think it had the best maps, but dual-wielding focus in Halo 2 was way more of a downfall than anything in Reach MP. Halo 3 was a solid experience. Reach is better though.
Blue Ninja
Member
One of the things I love about the level "Halo" is the fact that all the level's skyboxes are loaded from the start, and they're pretty easy to find. :lol
Yes, this is where all cutscenes take place. Kind of disappointing at first, huh? :lol
Somehow, though, the ones from the start of the level are proving a lot more elusive than the ones from the ending.
Yes, this is where all cutscenes take place. Kind of disappointing at first, huh? :lol
Somehow, though, the ones from the start of the level are proving a lot more elusive than the ones from the ending.
Devolution
Member
Risen said:
Swordbase's blue spawns for objective. Oh my god, I get those spawns and I go get something to drink. I'm not kidding.
Risen said:
The maps don't have to be similar to one another to be great. They are good in their own right. How competitvely viable a map is does not interfere with how much fun it is for me. Stockpile was inherently unbalanced on Swordbase but I have had a ton of fun playing that gametype/map combo.
thezerofire
Banned
>Swordbasestephen08 said:
>Stockpile
alright, we're done here
Devolution
Member
stephen08 said:
One can always go backwards with competitive maps for people who want more "chaotic fun." One cannot move forward with flawed maps.
Risen said:
You are the EXACT kind of jerk I put on my ignore list. Considering I despise CoD, the shooter which everyone is trying to both emulate and one-up you could also not be more wrong.
I look forward to never being forced to read your tripe again.
Yes, that's true. It still doesn't stop me from having fun on Swordbase every time I play it.Devolution said:
KidA Seven
Member
Letters said:
Jesus... careful there. I would rather have a belly full of white dog crap over that.
Can 343i consider putting in a community version of Asylum? The map plays great, but the fucked up sightlines almost ruin it.
Sword base is a terrible map. It took inspiration from Boarding Action which I always considered as one of the joke maps. It's just so closed off and cramped....
Countdown could be made amazing with some weapon changes. Would be nice if they opened the doors up fully too.
Sword base is a terrible map. It took inspiration from Boarding Action which I always considered as one of the joke maps. It's just so closed off and cramped....
Countdown could be made amazing with some weapon changes. Would be nice if they opened the doors up fully too.
Devolution
Member
stephen08 said:
If you can admit to this point then you should understand completely why people have problems with Reach maps and the direction they took with this game.
Stephen is that guy always camping top gold with sword/shotgun on Swordbase, the only way one could really enjoy that map.
^ So true VH, this game is so broken it's not even worth arguing about anymore, the game's getting a TU for a reason. It won't fix everything, but maybe it can salvage it enough to make it til Halo 4. I'm interested in seeing how far Reach is gonna drop once all the big MP games come out this holiday.
^ So true VH, this game is so broken it's not even worth arguing about anymore, the game's getting a TU for a reason. It won't fix everything, but maybe it can salvage it enough to make it til Halo 4. I'm interested in seeing how far Reach is gonna drop once all the big MP games come out this holiday.
Devolution said:
Yeah that's fine. I don't begrudge anyone their own fun. Ultimately though, it is overblown. If it wasn't, these people who identify Reach as the worst Halo would be off playing Halo 3 which is still very much functional. But they don't. They complain about Reach and play it night after night.
stephen08 said:
It's not that cut and dry, you have to be pretty dense to not notice how much cleaner the netcode is in Reach compared to 3. I play Reach semi regular because I have nothing else to play at the moment, and the alternatives are even worse, which speaks to how sad the rest of the industry is I guess. I will be taking a nice vacation on the 20th though.