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Halo: Reach |OT6| There Are Those Who Said This Day Would Never Come
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
ncsuDuncan
Member
Halo 2 a failure? No way.
Just no.
Could it have been better? Sure. But calling it a failure is laughable.
Halo 2 was an overambitious project that ran into horrendous scheduling problems. The multiplayer was revolutionary and while the campaign may not have lived up to their initial hopes it was still a well-received experience. Looking back and focusing only on the problems it had is ridiculous.
I'm sure they regret how brutal the game's development turned out, but I'd be shocked if they weren't proud of the final product.
Failure? Really?
Just no.
Could it have been better? Sure. But calling it a failure is laughable.
Halo 2 was an overambitious project that ran into horrendous scheduling problems. The multiplayer was revolutionary and while the campaign may not have lived up to their initial hopes it was still a well-received experience. Looking back and focusing only on the problems it had is ridiculous.
I'm sure they regret how brutal the game's development turned out, but I'd be shocked if they weren't proud of the final product.
Failure? Really?
Devolution
Member
BigShow36 said:
Ouch. I can see both sides of the argument though. The BR being the only weapon used (and close range weaps being useless) did get monotonous. I think CE balanced spawning with a great weapon but still having useful other weapons on the map to use, and h2 failed in that regard.
Halo 1 plasma rifle for instance slowed opponents down and you could melee them to death (or even rotate around them and smack 'em in the back), in h2 it was a piece of shit, like many close range weapons. They tried to bring that h1 balance back with duals and it was awful.
BigShow36 said:
If you're going to drive by post and not bother to expand your arguments, fuck right off. As much as I disagree with some people here, they at least respond with discussion.
squidhands
Member
Did this thread get moved back to Gaming side?BigShow36 said:
Tha Robbertster
Member
Sai-kun said:
Yeah, 13 and 17 sounds like a much bigger difference then 7 and 10.
I'm not the youngest though, nollemaster is 16 and I can remember another guy ashamed for his age :lol
?Devolution said:
It was a utility weapon, isn't that what everybody is asking for now? Power weapons were still sought after, it wasn't like a BR could fuck up a rocket guy consistently. As for close range weapons, the shotgun was busted, but the sword (while overpowered as all hell) and certain dual combos weren't useless. SMG/PR, SMG/Mag, PP/Mag, I remember using them all to great effect. SMG starts sucked, but the weapon itself wasn't that bad in its intended range. I dunno, I know its not a popular opinion, but I didn't hate what DW did to the sandbox. Single-hand weapons were all over the place on those maps, I'd rather spawn with an SMG than the Halo 3 AR.
I played it last week. It was fun. Shocking, I know. Stop assuming that the only reason people can like something from before is nostalgia.stephen08 said:
Also, tootin' my own horn:
The Genealogy of Halo Maps, Part 1
Done by like 2 maybe 3 guys under the table that were learning 3DS Max as they went since Bungie couldn't spare any of the campaign artists at all for multiplayer.
The Genealogy of Halo Maps, Part 1
Booshka said:
Done by like 2 maybe 3 guys under the table that were learning 3DS Max as they went since Bungie couldn't spare any of the campaign artists at all for multiplayer.
Devolution said:
Halo 2 completely threw gun skill out the window, which in turn bleeds through into every other facet of "skill" in a Halo game. It ushered in the Halo era of "teamshot or die - individual skill means nothing," which was the antithesis of what made me love Halo in the first place.
Devolution said:
What part of the question warranted further explanation? He asked if I'd been reading the thread, and I haven't in recent days. "Nope" was a concise, truthful reply.
Nollemaster
Member
Tha Robbertster said:
That´s true, I´m still wearing my Halo diapers.
Devolution
Member
Havok said:
Like I said CE balanced spawning with a multi-purpose weapon but then retaining weapons (not solely power weapons mind you) that could be superior at their intended range. H2 just had duals which if I'm being honest, weren't terrible but weren't all that consistent if I can recall. Not to mention a pain in the ass when people just dual up and no other weapons are available for the taking. I hated the SMG start on maps like burial mounds, useless.
Also I'll get some flack for this, but I've hated the implementation of sword since h2. It always seemed like an OP weapon to me with no real place in the sandbox other than distance and irritation. And the range on that thing in h2 was ridiculous.
Steelyuhas
Member
Devolution said:
What I don't understand is if the SMG was recognized as a failure of a starting weapon by Bungie, why the hell did the AR happen in H3?
Devolution
Member
BigShow36 said:
I'd argue that this isn't completely true. There was plenty of individual skill to retain in 2. Maybe not as much as CE, but there was still headshotting and dancing in 2.
Why bother engaging in a discussion if you're just going to walk in, say something you know is going to piss people off, and basically admit you haven't been paying attention to anything prior. It's basically trolling.
KidA Seven
Member
CyReN said:
Yeah, I almost share the same views as Big Show, except that I enjoyed Halo 2. I can see why CE fans were upset when it first came out though.
That's valid enough for me, devo. The series has been diverse enough that you can't please everyone, and I'm not gonna argue my unpopular opinion - I know it won't change anyone's mind. The point I'm making in a lot of these cases is that DW wasn't the problem, SMG starts were.
"<Starting Weapon> will finally be a viable starting weapon this time around!" - Games Journalist Quoting Guy from Bungie - 2004, 2007, 2010.Steelyuhas said:
Duals allowed a player set up in defensive mode if met with a BR, snipe, or Sword user. A SMG/Mag or SMG/PR user can take down a good BR user within seconds if he gets the good jump (i.e. not shacked in a corner or ledge). In games like Reach and H3 the AR isn't able to do that without any assistance of a melee or well placed grenade. No chance do AR users survive against precision based users without help - and with H2's mobility and all the different types of jumps that could be made in maps like Lockout, Turf, and so on, it provided a very lengthy and versatile experience.Devolution said:
Also Burial Mounds best gametype was 1-flag and 1-bomb, which featured BR starts. Team Snipers and Rifle also had their place there which worked wonderfully.
Devolution
Member
Havok said:
Well I liked 2, but even if it was brought back I can see right away where people would get pissed off with it, especially in the context of CE and Reach. It wasn't perfect by any stretch. And I recognize what I consider some of its strengths and its weaknesses.
Striker said:
I get what the purpose of duals was, my main point was I didn't really see the follow through in most games. SMG + Pistol was damn good but the BR would still have an edge, especially the ability to nade without dropping your weapon. (Am I remembering that right? You nade, you drop your dual? Or was it just melee?) The balance of one handed weapons in CE insured you could take someone on with a weapon, toss nades and melee.
The best dual if I recall right was double pistol, especially against br holders, but good luck finding them or ammo.
Reagan's BR
Banned
Halo should be more like Call of Duty Modern Warfare 2.
Can't wait for TGS news
Rickenslacker
Banned
Oh wow, you got me.stephen08 said:
Striker said:
The problem with duals wasn't their functionality, it was how stupidly easy they were. Just pick up two weapons and literally hold down the trigger. If you were within their effective range, you win, if you weren't, you lost. Thats not compelling gameplay.
I also have a sneaking suspicion that dualing was what made them remove plasma-stun. Also, it created the half-weapon issue.
Steelyuhas said:
The problem was that the SMG's range was so small and that it could be dual-wielded thus people would do that instead of use melees or grenades. The AR at least had a reasonable range and freed you up to use melees and grenades.
I don't love either, but the AR starts in 3 were definitely a step forward from the SMG starts in 2.
EDIT: Looks like some of you guys took offense to the rose tinted glasses quip. Sorry if that's the case, but H2 is still the worst Halo game.
reggie said:
The advantage was its power at close range. The disadvantage was its limited range. Thats it. It's not some complex enigma that requires deep thought to use effectively. If you had a single weapon that could be dual wielded, you always wanted to pick up another weapon for it. There was never any reason to not dual wield a dual-wieldable weapon.
Rickenslacker
Banned
Grenades? Noob combo? I will agree that I didn't like dual-wielding from the start, and was disappointed that it pretty much gave rise to the "BR is OP" camp because it effectively neutered a whole slew of weaponry to let you use two of them at once.BigShow36 said:
What's been an issue since not spawning with a dual weapon was giving out users an AR, which it wasn't an overly strong weapon in Halo 1, still was formidable. I will honestly admit I rather spawn with an SMG in Burial Mounds or Zanzibar than spawn than an AR. Neither were good weapons in intermediate distances, only up close. That was their purpose. Whether or not that's a preferable weapon is up to one's opinion. I personally think it's something in similar stance to Reach's Pistol. But that in itself is limited by its clip and overall mag size.BigShow36 said:
Yes, but why throw grenades at players if you have two in your hands? Meleeling worked fine after some shots into a player. Never was brought down by any lapsed time of the dropped weapon.Devolution said:
Devolution
Member
BigShow36 said:
Just bring up problems you had with it and people are more inclined to respond with points rather than insults. Have you been reading my posts about 2? They're not really complimentary right now and no one is frothing at the mouth with me.
thezerofire
Banned
stephen08 said:
Rickenslacker
Banned
stephen08 said:
Devolution
Member
Striker said:
Nades could typically be thrown farther than the dual is capable of reaching. Have you naded an oncoming player before? Or thrown them in a corner? Why would I want to drop a weapon to do so? Meleeing would usually have to be last, with stuff like the plasma rifle in CE it was much more intuitive to melee, fire, melee for instance because of its stunning capabilities. In 2 you lost a lot of that movement diversity. That's what I'm getting at. And I think that's what bigshow is trying to get at as well.
I don't consider it gamebreaking but for people who really liked CE, I can see where the change up in h2 pissed them off.