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Halo: Reach |OT6| There Are Those Who Said This Day Would Never Come

H

Homeboyd

Member
OuterWorldVoice said:
The custom game type today includes bloom tweaks, armor lock tweaks and a bunch of other stuff. No pistol (or maps, obviously) until Nov 15th. But lots of other stuff.
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zomg.. bieber helmets??!

Can't wait for the angel update.
 
L

Louis Wu

Member
BigShow36 said:
“Balance” means that success is directly proportional to the abilities, choices, and actions of the players. Similar to how a 10 lb wieght will tip a scale relative to a 5 lb weight, a highly skilled gamer will proportionally tilt the scale of a game against a lesser opponent.

What it appeared Frankie was talking about was the act of balancing all the different "wants" of the gaming community. I'm talking about how the actual "sandbox" is balanced.



You're making gross assumptions about a rather ambiguous false dichotomy. If you are a gamer who wants to be treated fairly, you will want the most balanced game possible, even if only 1% of the population likes it. As a gamer, why would you care how many other people enjoy the game as long as you enjoy it? Assuming, of course, that there's at least a healthy enough population that you would have people to interact with.

I find it difficult to believe, based on your prior statements, that you actually want a "fair" game. From what I've gathered, you want a game that artificially equals the playing field; thats not fair. Maybe you mispoke on your previous comments though.
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Heh - now you're telling me how I should think, too. Awesome. (It is, actually, important to me that other people enjoy the game I'm playing. I do NOT have fun playing in a game where I'm donging on the competition, and they're miserable.)

By your definition, only games like SWAT can truly be 'balanced' - because there are very, very few variables. The more bits you add into the sandbox (weapons, abilities, map features), the more opportunities there are for unintended outcomes. To me, 'balance' means that two players of roughly equal skill each have a chance of winning an outcome with different choices of weapons/loadouts/map positions. The more complicated the game becomes, the fuzzier this becomes - so the only way to keep it objectively level, WITHOUT fuzziness, is to minimize choice. I'm okay with the fuzziness, because I'd rather have choice. Sounds like you're not.
 
R

Retro

Member
Plywood said:
So do you guys say D-M-R or domer?
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.... Designated Marksman Rifle... always.
D-M-R.

Homeboyd said:
On that subject, without throwing rocks, what are halogaf's thoughts of weapon editing (multiple ammo types for one gun, multiple scopes, skins, etc..)?

I know it's "not Halo," I'm just wondering what your thoughts were.
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I think being able to identify what an opponent is carrying based on each weapon's distinctive silhouette is essential to the Halo experience. I also like that you can see a weapon and know exactly how it's going to work, every time. I'd hate to pick up somebody's BR and find it has some jacked up scope and weird ammo.

I say that as a huge (HUUUUUUGGGGGE) customization whore. I like being able to pop the hood and customize all the little bells and whistles and visuals, the more of that the better... But it just doesn't fit Halo.

Deadly Cyclone said:
If Halo 1 had another mid to long range weapon (ala Battle rifle or DMR) that worked better at that intermediate range and could counter the pistol (and best it) I could see it being balanced.
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I'm tellin' y'all, we need that ODST Suppressed-SMG.

100z2.png


Give it 3x zoom and a 48-round clip. The range is counterbalanced by the infamous SMG recoil; careful use (aiming against the 'ride-up', carefully-controlled bursts) at long-to-mid ranges allows it to effectively work 'like' a BR, but it can still be an effective mid-to-close weapon with the full-auto. Not sure the silencer needs to do anything fancy, but it would give it a unique sound and feel. Removing the muzzle flash might make it easier to use from hiding, but that's a secondary concern at best.

It would not be a headshot-capable weapon, however; that keeps the Pistol in play, where the smaller clip and recoil make it a more of a precision weapon whereas the Silenced-and-scoped SMG would bring the range-control of the DMR without it being the be-all-end-all-why-pickup-anything-else weapon. You won't pull any headshots with the S-SMG, but you can cause some damage from afar and (more importantly) break off someone laying into you with the pistol (or being absolute shit with the Sniper Rifle).

Rate of fire is lower than the AR, as well as a smaller clip size and longer reload time (I always think of the AR as the Pulse Rifle from Aliens; "When the counter reads zero here, you get another one in quick. Slap it in hard."). That keeps the AR as the definitive Mid-to-close range weapon.

Moot point anyways; unless the Forward Unto Dawn's Armory is in the aft section (and I just know somebody is going to find a schematic drawing and tell me it is), we probably won't see much Human weaponry and absolutely zero covenant weaponry. 343 basically has a license to reboot Halo's entire weapon set.
 
D

Domino Theory

Crystal Dynamics
Lol, we're getting "hyped" and waiting for the announcement of an announcement for a gametype. Can't believe this is what default Reach has made us do.
 
B

BigShow36

Member
Louis Wu said:
Heh - now you're telling me how I should think, too. Awesome. (It is, actually, important to me that other people enjoy the game I'm playing. I do NOT have fun playing in a game where I'm donging on the competition, and they're miserable.)
Click to expand...

I'm not telling you how to think, I merely stated that any player who wants to be treated fairly would value a balanced game. If you value the feeling of community over fairness, then thats fine too. Maybe I worded it poorly or maybe I was just wrong, but regardless, that part of the conversation has nothing to do with balance. Like I said, that was the result of Frankie presenting me with a false dichotomy.

Louis Wu said:
By your definition, only games like SWAT can truly be 'balanced' - because there are very, very few variables. The more bits you add into the sandbox (weapons, abilities, map features), the more opportunities there are for unintended outcomes. To me, 'balance' means that two players of roughly equal skill each have a chance of winning an outcome with different choices of weapons/loadouts/map positions. The more complicated the game becomes, the fuzzier this becomes - so the only way to keep it objectively level, WITHOUT fuzziness, is to minimize choice. I'm okay with the fuzziness, because I'd rather have choice. Sounds like you're not.
Click to expand...

My definition of balance states that success is directly proportional to the abilities, actions, and choices of the players. I fail to see how you came up with "removes options" from that definition. You can have a vast multitude of abilities and weapons and still have a balanced game. What I'm not okay with is programmed randomness and hamstringing or artificially bolstering a players ability.

Minimizing choice is the last thing I want.
 
D

Devin Olsen

Member
OuterWorldVoice said:
The custom game type today includes bloom tweaks, armor lock tweaks and a bunch of other stuff. No pistol (or maps, obviously) until Nov 15th. But lots of other stuff.
Click to expand...
Perhaps I don't understand the intricacies involved in putting out these new gametypes, but why exactly do we have to wait a month to try out the 3-shot kill pistol? I don't understand why we cannot have 0 bloom Slayer, CTF, KOTH, etc and 3 Shot Kill Pistol Slayer, CTF, ETC - Today.

Like I said I don't understand the work involved in making these gametypes, but from my perspective it seems odd that it would take so long.

And it isn't like you need to worry about balancing or tweaking... The gametypes will be uploaded for use in CUSTOM games so if people do not like it or there is an issue they can just simply not play that specific gametype.
 
B

bobs...onGaf

Member
Devin Olsen said:
Perhaps I don't understand the intricacies involved in putting out these new gametypes, but why exactly do we have to wait a month to try out the 3-shot kill pistol? I don't understand why we cannot have 0 bloom Slayer, CTF, KOTH, etc and 3 Shot Kill Pistol Slayer, CTF, ETC - Today.

Like I said I don't understand the work involved in making these gametypes, but from my perspective it seems odd that it would take so long.
Click to expand...

Gotta hard sell Halo CEA somehow lol. :p
 
B

BigShow36

Member
Devin Olsen said:
Perhaps I don't understand the intricacies involved in putting out these new gametypes, but why exactly do we have to wait a month to try out the 3-shot kill pistol? I don't understand why we cannot have 0 bloom Slayer, CTF, KOTH, etc and 3 Shot Kill Pistol Slayer, CTF, ETC - Today.

Like I said I don't understand the work involved in making these gametypes, but from my perspective it seems odd that it would take so long.

And it isn't like you need to worry about balancing or tweaking... The gametypes will be uploaded for use in CUSTOM games so if people do not like it or there is an issue they can just simply not play that specific gametype.
Click to expand...

It took Bungie three years to admit that SMG starts was bad, and that doesn't take any work at all.
 
N

ncsuDuncan

Member
Devin Olsen said:
Perhaps I don't understand the intricacies involved in putting out these new gametypes, but why exactly do we have to wait a month to try out the 3-shot kill pistol? I don't understand why we cannot have 0 bloom Slayer, CTF, KOTH, etc and 3 Shot Kill Pistol Slayer, CTF, ETC - Today.
Click to expand...

Not enough File Share spots. Can't get Bungie Pro anymore.

trollface.jpg
 
C

cory021

Neo Member
Domino Theory said:
Lol, we're getting "hyped" and waiting for the announcement of an announcement for a gametype. Can't believe this is what default Reach has made us do.
Click to expand...
Exactly what I'm thinking. I mean the changes will be nice, but it's not going to change anyone's opinion on the game drastically.

Although I am kind of interested to hear what my friends have to say about the TU. They disliked Reach and stopped playing it within like 2 months. I've tried to get them to play occasionally, but every time they end up disliking even more. Just the idea of even playing Reach is distasteful to them. In the TU, most of the things they disliked (pretty much what everyone else complains about: bloom Armor Lock, etc) is being patched. I'm kind of curious to see what they think after the changes.
 
H

heckfu

Banned
BigShow36 said:
I'm not telling you how to think, I merely stated that any player who wants to be treated fairly would value a balanced game. If you value the feeling of community over fairness, then thats fine too. Maybe I worded it poorly or maybe I was just wrong, but regardless, that part of the conversation has nothing to do with balance. Like I said, that was the result of Frankie presenting me with a false dichotomy.



My definition of balance states that success is directly proportional to the abilities, actions, and choices of the players. I fail to see how you came up with "removes options" from that definition. You can have a vast multitude of abilities and weapons and still have a balanced game. What I'm not okay with is programmed randomness and hamstringing or artificially bolstering a players ability.

Minimizing choice is the last thing I want.
Click to expand...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5hfYJsQAhl0
 
S

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
I was hoping for Zero Bloom Slayer today. C'est la vie.

Hydranockz said:
Can someone explain why the threads on the Waypoint forums merge so often??
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BS Angel sent notice that the forums would be moderated heavily and tidied up just after HaloFest - guess that moderation policy has been extended.

It's a good thing. Mostly.
 
H

Hydranockz

Member
So guys, to pass the time I figure I'd let you know what I think of Hologram.

I think it's great /post

Seriously though, after seeing the GL and it's cool use of secondary functions, it got me thinking of an alt use of Hologram.

How about, by holding down the AA button (instead of a tap), you could control the Hologram. The catch would be, you're Spartan would be standing still. You'd be pretty vulnerable but you could dupe other players, perhaps the more skilled players, into thinking it is a real character. The fact that you would be standing still also means you would not accurately be able to guide your hologram around corners in a convincing manner.

Edit: Perhaps this idea of zero bloom will make players feel like super soldiers who have mastered their arms after years of extensive training :/
 
K

Karl2177

Member
Who the fuck was in charge of grenades? I died more times last game than I would like to admit by a shot + grenade(not the standard grenade + shot!).
 
Kibbles

Kibbles

Member
OuterWorldVoice said:
The custom game type today includes bloom tweaks, armor lock tweaks and a bunch of other stuff. No pistol (or maps, obviously) until Nov 15th. But lots of other stuff.
Click to expand...
Bloom tweaks is not good enough, needs no bloom.
 
T

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Am I bugging out or did you guys change the load screen? I feel like those lights that shine through the Auntie Dot symbol are way brighter.
 
N

ncsuDuncan

Member
Devin Olsen said:
Uploaded
by Bungie on 9.13.2010
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"Zero Bloom Slayer DMRs
by davidav on 9.14.2011
DMR starts with default loadouts. 50 points to win."

That's what I see, but it looks like the file type is bugged: it's listed as a screenshot.
 
S

senador

Banned
ncsuDuncan said:
"Zero Bloom Slayer DMRs
by davidav on 9.14.2011
DMR starts with default loadouts. 50 points to win."

That's what I see, but it looks like the file type is bugged: it's listed as a screenshot.
Click to expand...

Wow it didn't show like that before but now it does. That looks very odd.

--

This thread has been a big downer today. Lots of people with a sense of self-entitlement it seems. :(

I watched some Gears 3 vids. Man, I didn't even finish Gears 2 but I think I'll do it while Amazon still has the $20 credit and just take a Halo break. I've played too much Reach regardless of opinions on it (plus it won't work for me on promo disc at moment anyhow).
 
H

Homeboyd

Member
Didn't gametypes that Jeremiah released recently have an uploaded on date of 9/13 or 9/14? I just remember everyone freaking out that they "had those since launch and were holding out on us." Same with the noble maps. I can't remember the specifics.
 
D

Devin Olsen

Member
Alright well if that gametype is anything to go off of we are going to be getting 0 bloom slayer today. We should get a custom game going on, who all is down to join?
 
F

feel

Member
Devin Olsen said:
Alright well if that gametype is anything to go off of we are going to be getting 0 bloom slayer today. We should get a custom game going on, who all is down to join?
Click to expand...
"davidav" is a known 343i tag or something?
 
K

Karl2177

Member
Homeboyd said:
Didn't gametypes that Jeremiah released recently have an uploaded on date of 9/13 or 9/14? I just remember everyone freaking out that they "had those since launch and were holding out on us." Same with the noble maps. I can't remember the specifics.
Click to expand...
Yep. And when Defiant released they were also 9.13.2010 but by 343Industries, not Bungie.
 
G

Gui_PT

Member
Devin Olsen said:
Alright well if that gametype is anything to go off of we are going to be getting 0 bloom slayer today. We should get a custom game going on, who all is down to join?
Click to expand...

Gah, too late for me =\
 
D

Devin Olsen

Member
Letters said:
"davidav" is a known 343i tag or something?
Click to expand...
It isn't... But the fact that moments ago that url pointed to a regular TS gametype uploaded by Bungie and now says "Zero Bloom Slayer" and is very oddly broken, makes me think it's going to be the gametype their uploading.
 
N

ncsuDuncan

Member
lybertyboy said:
The gametype is not quite ready for public consumption just yet. Hang on.
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Sorry, I'll be patient.

I like my steaks medium-rare, but if the chef says it needs more time to cook I trust his (or her) judgement.
 
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