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[The Librarian]

I like at least having the option to knock them out of it, but yeah, I'd like to see a bump in the damage transfer.

Listening to the podcast and hearing them say that they know there is unpleasant stuff in there on purpose so they can get data on it makes me a little more hopeful. It certainly puts the objective offerings in a new light. However, I do have a bit of an issue with bloom decisions: Since we're unable to change that setting ourselves, we only get to experience what are basically the two extremes in ZBS and 85, which I can't imagine not taking the place of 100% since nobody seems to have a problem with it. I'd like to know what a 60% feels like, for example, because I might like it better than either 85 or 0, but I have no way of knowing. I dunno. It's a real bummer that these settings aren't available to the end user.

85% bloom doesn't feel that different for me. Personally, I'd like to see it drop down to 50%, or 60% as you said.

Voting data is not the main datapoint we're gathering for Zero Bloom. (That's not to say we're not looking at it.)

We're much more interested in continuing to grab inforation on average encounter time, distance from opponent upon death, weapon usage, heat maps, etc.

Ooh. That's interesting stuff!

Anyway, the beta playlist seems to have a healthy population and it's only 7:30 in the morning.

Also, is it just me, or are there more quitters in this playlist than usual?

It's a fake, but the menu looks really good imo.

That looks really, really good.

 

[wwm0nkey]

It's a fake, but the menu looks really good imo.

Wow, who ever did a great job

 

[TheOddOne]

It's a fake, but the menu looks really good imo.

Looks cool.

 

[The Librarian]

Some more first impressions: I definitely like ZB more than 85% bloom, which feels messy in comparison.

And I really don't like sword with sprint. Nightmares!

 

[Hypertrooper]

That person should get a job working on UIs. But a retail game isn't going to have a Quit to Dashboard menu option, that's only for Arcade titles, and it'd say "Quit to Arcade" or "Quit to Game Library" at that.

I prefer something like Halo 3, ODST or Reach. Simplistic and clear.

 

[erpg]

Yeah, sorry, but I never want a repeat Metroid Prime 2: Echoes' main menu UI ever again.

 

[The Librarian]

I love it when half your team quits, but you win anyway.

 

[MrBig]

I prefer something like Halo 3, ODST or Reach. Simplistic and clear.

Absolutely. Bungie has made some of the best UIs in the industry, and since 343 should have access to the amazing metro UI designers at MS they should be set.

 

[Deadly Cyclone]

Sorry, been away from the thread for a few days. Did the new playlists come out? How are they?

 

[Photolysis]

I prefer something like Halo 3, ODST or Reach. Simplistic and clear.

Halo's UI is generally excellent, but I think it's kind of unwieldy in places with Reach, with all the sub-menus they have due to the complexity of the options you can configure.

 

[HiredN00bs]

Yet suggesting that multi kill medals be disabled is a bad idea. In fact, the notion that "hey you got a double kill but there's a flag on the map so it doesn't count" is asinine. Players like skillful play to be acknowledged, and get pissed off when it doesn't. Just like I was pissed off when my 16-0 Perfection didn't count because the game fucked up the other day.

Great example, you'll note that Perfection medals are only available in Slayer. My idea is basically an extension of that, not to remove reward for playing well, but to draw the attention of players and thus focus the game towards the objective. Players in objective games should receive rewards for playing the primary objective, not just slaying. For instance, let's say in a neutral bomb game you push to the other team's base and get a triple kill and a killing frenzy, while the last player on the other team arms and detonates the bomb on your base. Do you really believe that is skillful play?

 

[king picollo]

Zero Bloom feels so sharp, loving it, maybe need to nerf the pistol a little.

It just takes the frustration out of the game, seems a lot fairer.

Not sure about 85% didn't feel that much different.

 

[kylej]

lollin at the pages of discussion about Halo Honor. shit's hysterical.

 

[Photolysis]

let's say in a neutral bomb game you push to the other team's base and get a triple kill and a killing frenzy, while the last player on the other team arms and detonates the bomb on your base. Do you really believe that is skillful play?

Situational, but quite possibly yes. There have been plenty of times during my Halo career where I've - intelligently - locked down a map and controlled much of it, dominating most of the other team in the process, only for my incompetent teammates to be unable to stop a single objective carrier because I can't be everywhere at once.

On the other hand if I'm racking up a huge killing spree by spawn-camping some poor bastard while the rest of his team go in and arm the bomb, then that's bad play, pure and simple.

Players in objective games should receive rewards for playing the primary objective, not just slaying

They should. Previously winning was a reward (thus gaining a higher rank), and hopefully fun in its own right.

My general philosophy in objective games is that a dead opponent is an opponent who can't offer any resistance against you achieving your objective. I protect the person taking care of that, while they run the flag / arm the bomb / take the hill / ball. Winning is the aim of the game, and my tactics form a useful part of that, not just mindlessly slaying opponents who are a minimal threat to make myself look good.

 

[Homeboyd]

Great example, you'll note that Perfection medals are only available in Slayer. My idea is basically an extension of that, not to remove reward for playing well, but to draw the attention of players and thus focus the game towards the objective. Players in objective games should receive rewards for playing the primary objective, not just slaying. For instance, let's say in a neutral bomb game you push to the other team's base and get a triple kill and a killing frenzy, while the last player on the other team arms and detonates the bomb on your base. Do you really believe that is skillful play?

Objective is already bleeding enough as it is. Taking away any more incentives to play in the playlist (which is what you're suggesting) certainly isn't going to bring it back to life. What's considered 'the right thing to do' isn't always going to be the popular decision and obviously 343 is looking to incentivize players to play their playlists. Not turn them away.

Gamers nowadays are motivated by systems that can display their 'value' to a team or skill in a game. If those statistics can't be displayed for themselves or their opposition, they aren't intertested. How do you suggest they reward players for playing the objective of the game as intended, without simultaneously damaging the system further by removing these associated self-motivated incentives?

 

[Deputy Moonman]

I got a few games in yesterday morning and my experience was anything but great. Had quitters in at least half of my games, not so great players in a few other games, and got destroyed. I also had one or two games where my shots were not registering or something weird was going on. Has anyone had any issues with people eating a bunch of shots during an entire match? I didn't see any connection issues and everyone had green bars. But still. Something was up.

lollin at the pages of discussion about Halo Honor. shit's hysterical.

I think the concept of Halo honor is retarded. But there is something to be said about being considerate of other players' experiences and proper gaming etiquette. But that's just me.

 

[Photolysis]

Objective is already bleeding enough as it is.

I can only speak for myself, but this is because the playlist has generally been mishandled from H3 onwards.

 

[Louis Wu]

What's the deal with the golden ranger elite challenges with random cR rewards? We're getting a bunch of those lately and today's payout is about half of the norm for 343.

http://halo.bungie.org/showchallenges.php?d=gold
It's exactly the same payout (for exactly the same challenge, difficulty-wise) as we saw in April (twice - Bungie), July (Bungie), and August (343). In September (343), there were three challenges - all three on Normal - and two were worth 5000 cR, while one was worth 2500 (like today's).

Really, my only question is what is the difference between 'If It Bleeds' and 'Golden Opportunity', other than the misspelled 'Range' in 'If It Bleeds'?

 

[kylej]

I think the concept of Halo honor is retarded. But there is something to be said about being considerate of other players' experiences and proper gaming etiquette. But that's just me.

If you're not having fun just quit out. Good lord it's a video game. Reminds me of all the people who worry about their k/d ratio; nobody looks at your Bnet profile besides yourself. Nobody gives a shit. Quitting one game or going negative or whatever means nothing.

I swear half the people at HaloGAF never played competitive sports or like a challenge. Losing sucks. Take it like a man or quit.

 

[Homeboyd]

http://halo.bungie.org/showchallenges.php?d=gold
It's exactly the same payout (for exactly the same challenge, difficulty-wise) as we saw in April (twice - Bungie), July (Bungie), and August (343). In September (343), there were three challenges - all three on Normal - and two were worth 5000 cR, while one was worth 2500 (like today's).

Really, my only question is what is the difference between 'If It Bleeds' and 'Golden Opportunity', other than the misspelled 'Range' in 'If It Bleeds'?

Yeah my comment was based on the payout discrepancies between the 343 golden elite challenges (not referring to actual title - just the action of "killing a golden elite"). I am certainly happy with what 343 has done with the challenge payouts compared to Bungie's system, but I couldn't figure out why 2 of them from 343 were worth 5k (with a lower allowable difficulty) and another was worth half that. Most likely just a missed challenge that wasn't caught in time.

Im not sure what the difference in the titles of these challenges is either.

 

[Gabotron ES]

85% bloom feels awesome, not really liking zero bloom :I

 

[PooBone]

Played a lot of the Beta playlist last night, and I just wanna say that Reach has never been better. Gonna go articulate my thoughts a little better in the Waypoint threads, but I feel like if two guys get the drop on me, I'm not suddenly giving up mentally. I can usually get at least one kill when I'm outnumbered, and that makes for an incredibly satisfying feeling. Also, maybe it was just me, but it seemed like I had a lot of really close games. 50-49, 50-48, and even when you lose those you still have a lot of fun.

 

[The Real Napsta]

ZBS in MM isn't fun. Movement needs to be faster, jump needs to be higher, and the pistol needs to be a pickup.

I understand its a beta though and i look forward to tweaked ZB settings and Halo CE gametypes.

 

[PooBone]

If you're not having fun just quit out. Good lord it's a video game. Reminds me of all the people who worry about their k/d ratio; nobody looks at your Bnet profile besides yourself. Nobody gives a shit. Quitting one game or going negative or whatever means nothing.

I swear half the people at HaloGAF never played competitive sports or like a challenge. Losing sucks. Take it like a man or quit.

kylej, if you get into a game on MM, you shouldn't quit, whether you're having fun or not. Getting your ass kicked usually isn't fun, but there's no point ruining it for everyone else. If you aren't man enough to lose in a 5 minute game of Halo, then don't play the game, period. Fuckin hate quitters.

And yes I played sports. STFU.

 

[Homeboyd]

ZBS in MM isn't fun. Movement needs to be faster, jump needs to be higher, and the pistol needs to be a pickup.

I understand its a beta though and i look forward to tweaked ZB settings and Halo CE gametypes.

Drop this in the TU thread at the Waypoint forums:
http://halo.xbox.com/forums/games/f/7/p/22731/176499.aspx

I'm sure they take the feedback from here as well but at least you know it's not getting missed over there. (linked for lurkers who were unaware too)

 

[GhaleonEB]

http://halo.bungie.org/showchallenges.php?d=gold
It's exactly the same payout (for exactly the same challenge, difficulty-wise) as we saw in April (twice - Bungie), July (Bungie), and August (343). In September (343), there were three challenges - all three on Normal - and two were worth 5000 cR, while one was worth 2500 (like today's).

Really, my only question is what is the difference between 'If It Bleeds' and 'Golden Opportunity', other than the misspelled 'Range' in 'If It Bleeds'?

If it Bleeds..... requires Normal or higher difficulty, while Golden Opportunity requires Heroic or higher.

Golden Opportunity - 2500 cR
October 5, 2011
Find and kill the Gold Ranger-class Elite in any Campaign mission on Heroic or harder.

If It Bleeds... - 2500 cR
September 14, 2011
Find and kill the Gold Range-class Elite in any Campaign mission on Normal or harder.

 

[daedalius]

Pistol is pretty insane in ZBS.

I'm looking forward to the Anniversary pistol, but this one... damn.

Still think they need to move 85% down just a tad(maybe try like 60%?), liking everything else though, especially the bleed-through.

 

[Homeboyd]

If it Bleeds..... requires Normal or higher difficulty, while Golden Opportunity requires Heroic or higher.

Golden Opportunity - 2500 cR
October 5, 2011
Find and kill the Gold Ranger-class Elite in any Campaign mission on Heroic or harder.

If It Bleeds... - 2500 cR
September 14, 2011
Find and kill the Gold Range-class Elite in any Campaign mission on Normal or harder.

Yeah we noticed that but we were trying to understand why there's a difference especially considering now that the "If It Bleeds" Challenge has a lower allowable difficulty, and is worth more cR. My guess was that it was just something that was missed due to the confusing challenge names/requirements.

It appears that only 343 has used the "If It Bleeds" challenge and has adjusted the payout accordingly when compared to the similar challenge "Golden Opportunity" used by Bungie. This is the first time 343 has used the "Golden Opportunity" challenge so any associated payouts would've remained the same as Bungie's unless edited. Just missed it (again, guessing).

 

[Louis Wu]

If it Bleeds..... requires Normal or higher difficulty, while Golden Opportunity requires Heroic or higher.

Golden Opportunity - 2500 cR
October 5, 2011
Find and kill the Gold Ranger-class Elite in any Campaign mission on Heroic or harder.

If It Bleeds... - 2500 cR
September 14, 2011
Find and kill the Gold Range-class Elite in any Campaign mission on Normal or harder.

No, i understood that's how it's being used - my question was 'why bother making this two different Challenges?' I'm too lazy to go searching now, but I'm sure there are examples of challenges that are offered on different difficulty levels, but share the same name.

This had me wondering as well, so I checked my Challenge spreadsheet (which runs through last week), and nope - they're all unique to difficulty level. The only variables that change within the same Challenge name are the requirement count (X kills) and cR payouts. Everything else is pre-baked and unique to the name. I was surprised to see this, but it implies how fixed the Challenge templates are.

Huh. I stand corrected.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Yeah we noticed that but we were trying to understand why there's a difference especially considering now that the "If It Bleeds" Challenge has a lower allowable difficulty, and is worth more cR. My guess was that it was just something that was missed due to the confusing challenge names/requirements.

Yea, I think that's a payout management issue. The Heroic difficulty should always payout more than the Normal one.

It appears that only 343 has used the "If It Bleeds" challenge and has adjusted the payout accordingly when compared to the similar challenge "Golden Opportunity" used by Bungie. This is the first time 343 has used the "Golden Opportunity" challenge so any associated payouts would've remained the same as Bungie's unless edited. Just missed it (again, guessing).

That's my guess as well. All of these have to be individually adjusted, which is hugely time consuming, and it's natural that little instances like this will happen.

No, i understood that's how it's being used - my question was 'why bother making this two different Challenges?' I'm too lazy to go searching now, but I'm sure there are examples of challenges that are offered on different difficulty levels, but share the same name.

This had me wondering as well, so I checked my Challenge spreadsheet (which runs through last week), and nope - they're all unique to difficulty level. The only variables that change within the same Challenge name are the requirement count (X kills) and cR payouts. Everything else is pre-baked and unique to the name. I was surprised to see this, but it implies how fixed the Challenge templates are.

 

[daedalius]

People on waypoint still saying 'spam' in reference to zero-bloom... don't they understand how this works?

Is it spamming if someone 5 shots you in (kill time for 5 perfect shots on zerobloom)? Silly people. They seem to be confusing 'very fast RoF' with 'spam'.

I really find it surprising how many people are in love with vanilla reach and they want to see absolutely no changes. Sheesh, guess I'll only ever be playing in the Anniversary playlists in the future. I kind of like to see games evolve with new ideas and, imo, improvements.

How anyone can think that vanilla armor lock is fine... sheesh. I love it for toasting Ghosts, but that's about it. Would still much rather just have equipment back, I loved throwing those power drains at vehicles and then following it up with plasma 'nades.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Challenge payouts, by week, through Sunday (excluding launch weeks so as to only show full seven day weeks):

Average Challenge payouts since 343 took over. Five weekly Challenges, two weeks of daily Challenges:

         Bungie     343
Weekly   9,545      26,293 
Daily    41,709     84,192

There are actually several more interesting ways to dice this up, but I'm out of time this morning. Still, it shows the scale of the cR increase. They've made Challenges worth going for again, the Campaign ones in particular.

 

[Rickenslacker]

There are actually several more interesting ways to dice this up, but I'm out of time this morning. Still, it shows the scale of the cR increase. They've made Challenges worth going for again, the Campaign ones in particular.

Yeah, I immediately noticed that. The challenges weren't just the equivalent of playing one match in MM and maybe a little extra. Weeklies in particular have been given that extra incentive.

 

[The Librarian]

I'm in the mood to do a campaign weekly so long as the following are met:
1. It's not a LASO
2. Payout is big enough.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

People on waypoint still saying 'spam' in reference to zero-bloom... don't they understand how this works?

Is it spamming if someone 5 shots you in (kill time for 5 perfect shots on zerobloom)? Silly people. They seem to be confusing 'very fast RoF' with 'spam'.

I really find it surprising how many people are in love with vanilla reach and they want to see absolutely no changes. Sheesh, guess I'll only ever be playing in the Anniversary playlists in the future. I kind of like to see games evolve with new ideas and, imo, improvements.

How anyone can think that vanilla armor lock is fine... sheesh. I love it for toasting Ghosts, but that's about it. Would still much rather just have equipment back, I loved throwing those power drains at vehicles and then following it up with plasma 'nades.

That just shows you yet again that HaloGaf isn't the majority some think it is. We're a minority when it comes to Halo.

 

[Homeboyd]

The only variables that change within the same Challenge name are the requirement count (X kills) and cR payouts. Everything else is pre-baked and unique to the name. I was surprised to see this, but it implies how fixed the Challenge templates are.

That is... ehh...

A new challenge title for each difficulty offered? Even if it's the exact same challenge?!

Baked.

 

[Rickenslacker]

That just shows you yet again that HaloGaf isn't the majority some think it is. We're a minority when it comes to Halo.

What if those guys are a minority too? Because certainly that doesn't encapsulate the entire Waypoint opinion for Reach.

 

[feel]

Crysis does the same shit Reach does with reducing the default walk speed to awful levels to justify and make Sprint look good, yet it's even much worse there, it makes the Reach base speed look great in comparison... uggggghhhh

edit-
holy shit people are getting good at these fake UI things

 

[darthbob]

Crysis does the same shit Reach does with reducing the default walk speed to awful levels to justify and make Sprint look good, yet it's even much worse there, it makes the Reach base speed look great in comparison... uggggghhhh

edit-
holy shit people are getting good at these fake UI things

I know that feeling.

Also, in the PC version, you can still run, rather than 'Speed', and if you select 'Speed', and don't sprint, you'll walk a tad faster.

Still, I prefer it on my awesome rig, but the console version is okay too.

 

[JohnOfMars]

2 quick questions, if someone doesn't mind answering:

1) Is the title update bloom reduction going to carry over into campaign as well?
2) Did they announce any other parts to the title update like strafe speed increase or warthog rejiggering? or still just bloom & armor lock debuffs?

 

[Rickenslacker]

I really hate sprint in FPS games because of the way it changes how I do movement. I'm adding an extra button press there for no reason. Oh but I do get to hear obligatory pants and groans, woo, totally what I want to hear.

SPRINTwalkSPRINTwalkSPRINTwalk, it's always felt clumsy to me. I like me some competent base speeds.

2 quick questions, if someone doesn't mind answering:

1) Is the title update bloom reduction going to carry over into campaign as well?
2) Did they announce any other parts to the title update like strafe speed increase or warthog rejiggering? or still just bloom & armor lock debuffs?

1. No, it's strictly a matchmaking/multiplayer gametype thing.
2. Nope. Just bloom, damage bleed, hooks for Anniversary pistol, camo nerf, and armour lock nerf as far as I know.

 

[daedalius]

Crysis does the same shit Reach does with reducing the default walk speed to awful levels to justify and make Sprint look good, yet it's even much worse there, it makes the Reach base speed look great in comparison... uggggghhhh

edit-
holy shit people are getting good at these fake UI things

Apparently genetically enhanced super-soldiers all have something in common: they enjoy a nice meandering stroll in combat situations.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

I really hate sprint in FPS games because of the way it changes how I do movement. I'm adding an extra button press there for no reason. Oh but I do get to hear obligatory pants and groans, woo, totally what I want to hear.

SPRINTwalkSPRINTwalkSPRINTwalk, it's always felt clumsy to me. I like me some competent base speeds.


1. No, it's strictly a matchmaking.
2. Nope. Just bloom, damage bleed, hooks for Anniversary pistol, camo nerf, and armour lock nerf as far as I know.

I agree. That's one reason I say all AA's should just go away with Halo 4. Just put the movement speed back up to earlier games levels and remove that shit along with the rest of the armor abilities.

 

[ShortBizzle]

I love it when half your team quits, but you win anyway.

This happened to me twice last night...

One

Two

I'm liking the new settings

 

[Rickenslacker]

I agree. That's one reason I say all AA's should just go away with Halo 4. Just put the movement speed back up to earlier games levels and remove that shit along with the rest of the armor abilities.

Seriously. I hope 343 doesn't feel the need to try an one up Bungie and include all these features and all that again. I just want some concentration on a multiplayer experience that at the core is what Halo is truly about. Not this Frankenstein monster that Reach has become.

 

[Slightly Live]

Seriously. I hope 343 doesn't feel the need to try an one up Bungie and include all these features and all that again. I just want some concentration on a multiplayer experience that at the core is what Halo is truly about. Not this Frankenstein monster that Reach has become.

Loadouts have become a staple of modern console FPS....

 

[Hypertrooper]

That just shows you yet again that HaloGaf isn't the majority some think it is. We're a minority when it comes to Halo.

But... but... we have Juice, Tashi and the whole TJ clan.

 

[Homeboyd]

Loadouts have become a staple of modern console FPS....

More like a staple in my side!!!

OMG BURNNNNNNNNNNNN!




I'm here all week... try the veal.

 

[ElRenoRaven]

Loadouts have become a staple of modern console FPS....

That doesn't make them good.

 

[TheOddOne]

Apparently genetically enhanced super-soldiers all have something in common: they enjoy a nice meandering stroll in combat situations.

MAXIMUM ENJOYMENT ENGAGED.