• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Halo: Reach |OT6| There Are Those Who Said This Day Would Never Come

The moment Epic charged ten dollars for games and skins that were already on the disc (and then there's still the goddamn weapon skins) I just said "fuck it". Season passes are good ideas, but not if you're planning on screwing the customer over.
 
bobs99 ... said:
That said im really worried that CEA multiplayer wise wont have a population to sustain the anniversary maps. I know they will be put up on the marketplace at a later date but considering how poor the current dlc intergration is what are the odds of the classic maps getting intergrated well? Low populations mean that the classic++ playlist may be doa.
Well, myself, a lot of the people here, and potentially quite a few others are going to only play CEA, so it shouldn't be too bad
 
FyreWulff said:
I don't have the Bungie Update on hand, looking for it now, but Shishka said that the majority was on Mythic. Here's an IGNboards post from stephen08 where he quoted the BWU:

http://boards.ign.com/xbox_360_general_board/b8266/187078197/p1/

Wow, that is interesting and surprising. Didn't seem to help H3 matchmaking at all in my experience. Don't think I ever saw a Mythic 2 map in H3 when it wasn't required.

Bottom line is, COD has more permutations than Reach currently does, and it's system works flawlessly. If you use that system or not, as a developer of a AAA multiplayer title that is going have high-production DLC, and in Reach's case, relies on DLC to honestly give the game a complete list of MP maps, you need to find a way to have good DLC integration in your game.
 

FyreWulff

Member
bobs99 ... said:
Ah thanks. Its understandable. ODST was a 2 disk collection which probably cost more to manufacture which probably meant we had to pay more as consumers. 343 are probably just trying to avoid that by not including all of the maps.


That said im really worried that CEA multiplayer wise wont have a population to sustain the anniversary maps. I know they will be put up on the marketplace at a later date but considering how poor the current dlc intergration is what are the odds of the classic maps getting intergrated well? Low populations mean that the classic++ playlist may be doa.

I'm hoping they're integrated well, I want to play Headlong without having to deal with Zero Bloom and/or the Classic ruleset.

What I'd like to see is one week playlists that center around a single DLC map for the entire holiday season:


Week One: Prisoner Party
Week Two: Damnation Dance
Week Three: Headlong Hoedown
Week Four: Highlands Hootnanny

etc. Just one map, on a variety of gametypes, like when Cold Storage was released. Throw Triple Jackpots in that playlist. Get feedback for later changes and really reward people for buying the DLC.

Or maybe I just wanted a reason to write "hootnanny" in a Halo thread
 

senador

Banned
thezerofire said:
Yeah, but it doesn't seem like Reach puts preference on DLC, but I'm pretty sure CoD does. It would be nice if there were options for you to pick which is most important to you.

It does, it just very light I think. Like if it doesn't find someone in seconds it drops that parameter. I almost wonder if its broken though, not just functioning (poorly) as they intended.. But yeah, I was saying what you said basically and want the same thing.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
Just watched the Behind the Scenes video. Now, I don't really care too much about graphics like I used to when I was a kid but holy fuck Anniversary looks good. Maybe it's just because I'm used to seeing these environments how they were originally and the updated version is just that much better looking but damn, it's fuckin fine looking.
 
Question for the firefight enthusiasts: is the Defiant map pack worth $5, just for the firefight map? There's a sale this week:

Halo: Reach Defiant Map Pack 18-Oct 400 (50% off)
Halo: Reach Noble Map Pack 18-Oct 400 (50% off)
 

NOKYARD

Member
squidhands said:
It's time to ditch the child/building block mentality with Forge, and give the community the ability to produce some better-than-decent results with Halo's next map editor. Please.
Agreed.

It took 4 years but i finally figured out how to make a perfectly flat floor out of Forge pieces without using a Grid. At the very least, floor and wall pieces need to be scalable.

Variety and simplicity. If terrain editors are out of the question i believe the ideal situation would be to have Halo 4 ship with 2 or more Forgeworlds and the best possible Forge the new team can manage (simplicity). Then have Certain Affinity (or whoever) make DLC Forgeworlds with the full Forge pallet re-skinned to match the new map's decor, and have the 'Buildings' section exclusive to the individual map (variety).

Here's a freebee: Re skin the energy barrier as flowing water for pools, streams and waterfalls.
 
FyreWulff said:
And it finds that server by.... magic?
Don't turn this into another .map fiasco. Right now, Reach puts players together in a Matchmade game, then checks to see whether they all have the DLC map it might want to use. If they do, it uses the map; if they don't, tough shit. Switching the order of these steps would make an enormous difference in enjoyment for those who have purchased DLC: oh, you have the DLC and you want to play it? I'll make sure the room I put you in has players in the same boat as you. You may not play the DLC maps because the map selection is still randomized, but you at least have a chance. In the latter case, odds are something like 1 in 3 that you'll get presented with the opportunity to vote to play a DLC map. In the former, odds are tiny because even one player in the room without the maps ruins it for everyone even if the rest have purchased every piece of DLC.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Neuromancer said:
Question for the firefight enthusiasts: is the Noble map pack worth $5, just for the firefight map? There's a sale this week:
Depends how much you play Firefight. In many ways Unearthed is better than most of the shipping maps, but it's got some maddening flaws.
 

MrBig

Member
Zee-V70 said:
lttp, but:
http://cache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/8/2011/10/halo6.jpg[img]

I don't know 100% if it's the Package or the end of Cortana, but the level of atmosphere/graphics fidelity/etc are pretty spot-on with Reach if you do the Banshee easter egg on the Package, go to the mountains, and fly back towards the map. Random, I know, but I've done that before and it was the first thing I thought of when I saw this.[/QUOTE]
That was an art test to develop the atmosphere and color pallete of The Package.
 

FyreWulff

Member
NOKYARD said:
At the very least, floor and wall pieces need to be scalable.

Jonnyothan answered this over on HBO. The reason we can't scale Forge objects is due to a limitation of Havok.

Jonnyothan on HBO said:
Any object can be scaled but physics models are never scaled (this is a limitation of Havok and also why you can't scale objects in Forge) - so it's not smart to do it on anything other than a certain small set of objects.

http://carnage.bungie.org/haloforum/halo.forum.pl?read=1101488

Syracuse022 said:
Don't turn this into another .map fiasco. Right now, Reach puts players together in a Matchmade game, then checks to see whether they all have the DLC map it might want to use. If they do, it uses the map; if they don't, tough shit. Switching the order of these steps would make an enormous difference in enjoyment for those who have purchased DLC: oh, you have the DLC and you want to play it? I'll make sure the room I put you in has players in the same boat as you. You may not play the DLC maps because the map selection is still randomized, but you at least have a chance. In the latter case, odds are something like 1 in 3 that you'll get presented with the opportunity to vote to play a DLC map. In the former, odds are tiny because even one player in the room without the maps ruins it for everyone even if the rest have purchased every piece of DLC.

Halo 3 did that. Reach has a (soft) option to search for other DLC owners first before actually putting you together. This was right in a BWU. Of course, it won't work as well if not enough people actually buy the DLC.
 
senador said:
It does, it just very light I think. Like if it doesn't find someone in seconds it drops that parameter. I almost wonder if its broken though, not just functioning (poorly) as they intended.. But yeah, I was saying what you said basically and want the same thing.

I kind of think it's broken because they were stating that a algorithm was in for DLC before the game came out, and then when the Noble pack came out they quietly didn't really mention that there was a DLC algorithm in place and that 'you had to have everyone in the map with the maps', but didn't say that the game would try to actually make that happen for you.

That's probably just reading into it too much with a combination of frustration of poor DLC integration, but who knows.
 
Neuromancer said:
Yeah I realized that after I posted, and stealth edited. Thanks though!
Oh, didn't notice, sorry. I read your post quoted in Ghaleons post, wanted to make sure you didn't get nastily surprised. :lol

Not that the Noble maps are bad, far from it. I still think Tempest is pretty cool.
 

Karl2177

Member
FyreWulff said:
Jonnyothan answered this over on HBO. The reason we can't scale Forge objects is due to a limitation of Havok.




Halo 3 did that. Reach has a (soft) option to search for other DLC owners first before actually putting you together. This was right in a BWU. Of course, it won't work as well if not enough people actually buy the DLC.
You should really get in the habit of actually posting your source instead of mentioning it briefly.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
Neuromancer said:
Yeah I realized that after I posted, and stealth edited. Thanks though!
FWIW, the Noble and Defiant maps are generally better that the shipping maps. But outside of the DLC playlist you're going to have a hard time finding them, as the ongoing discussion indicates.

I wish I could recommend Unearthed more strongly. It made a very strong initial impression on me, and is interesting in how they leveraged pathing to address some of the flaws in the Firefight AI design. But the rough edges are crazy rough, and I no longer enjoy most games on it.
 
GhaleonEB said:
FWIW, the Noble and Defiant maps are generally better that the shipping maps. But outside of the DLC playlist you're going to have a hard time finding them, as the ongoing discussion indicates.

I wish I could recommend Unearthed more strongly. It made a very strong initial impression on me, and is interesting in how they leveraged pathing to address some of the flaws in the Firefight AI design. But the rough edges are crazy rough, and I no longer enjoy most games on it.
Dat Rocket Hog.

:(
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Blue Ninja said:
Dat Rocket Hog.

:(


vR7UM.jpg
 

kylej

Banned
Holy shit. There's actually an easily navigable way to browse MLG tournament footage at their website. I'm stunned that the MLG organization did something competent. Must be Global's doing.

edit. yo Devo there's some random ass chick playing Halo on JTV and she has like 80 viewers. http://www.twitch.tv/absolutely

You could probably make like 30 bucks a week playing Halo just for being a ~*GIRL GAMER*~.
 

Tashi

343i Lead Esports Producer
That's Abs. He's had a stream for years and pulls a decent amount of viewers when the pros aren't on. I guess that's his girlfriend?

edit: oh god her voice is so fucking annoying.
 

lybertyboy

Thinks the Evil Empire is just misunderstood.
Regarding DLC and matchmaking in Reach.

We are actively looking at implementation changes we can make which will allows users with DLC to be more likely to find other DLC users for matches. It's always a touchy balance weighing specific options like connection speeds, dlc latency with the need to find matches quickly. Nothing specific to report atm, but just want to let you know (even from my hotel room at 1:35am in Spain) that it's something we care deeply about.
 

wwm0nkey

Member
lybertyboy said:
Regarding DLC and matchmaking in Reach.

We are actively looking at implementation changes we can make which will allows users with DLC to be more likely to find other DLC users for matches. It's always a touchy balance weighing specific options like connection speeds, dlc latency with the need to find matches quickly. Nothing specific to report atm, but just want to let you know (even from my hotel room at 1:35am in Spain) that it's something we care deeply about.
I think you have told us this before lol Still great to know you guys are actively looking into it.
 
NOKYARD said:
Variety and simplicity. If terrain editors are out of the question i believe the ideal situation would be to have Halo 4 ship with 2 or more Forgeworlds and the best possible Forge the new team can manage (simplicity). Then have Certain Affinity (or whoever) make DLC Forgeworlds with the full Forge pallet re-skinned to match the new map's decor, and have the 'Buildings' section exclusive to the individual map (variety).

Here's a freebee: Re skin the energy barrier as flowing water for pools, streams and waterfalls.

Agree with the general sentiment. But at the bolded, forge worlds should never be considered again. I hear people pining for a covie forgeworld; it would simply harbor all of the problems of the current FW sans a hundred shades of grey.

The original FW was five separate maps. Isn't this far preferable to one giant amalgamation in which only a small portion is used for forging whilst the rest of the unused space just adds to overall performance woes as we witness with the likes of Asylum et al?

Imagine four, foundry sized forge canvasses, with largely similar forge pieces but an individual aesthetic to each of the four spaces. Heck even a different colour to the pieces. With that, you've minimised framerate problems and helped to avoid the chronic visual fatigue we've experienced with the dull and characterless forgeworld.

Notice I haven't included a btb sized forge canvass. I honestly believe btb shouldn't have forge maps. Player count means the forge budget has to be spread thinner when making a 8v8 map in order to avoid framerate problems. DLC should tend to btb's needs and DLC only. Forge simply isn't capable of creating interesting play spaces for btb's scale. I can't recall many even playable btb forge maps, much less one's I'd deem as good, solid btb maps.
 

feel

Member
bobs99 ... said:
Now that you mention it im worried. 343 hasnt really talked about the classic playlist at all have they? I know they are still doing it but if its so low on the priority list I doubt it will be done very well.
They'll just drop it on us on Nov 15, it'll inevitably be bad (nothing personal, it's just the way things always go with halo nowadays..), and then it will take forever for them to do a thing because the forums are going wild with the fixes they want to the higher priority bloom/AA shit side of the game.

OuterWorldVoice said:
http://i.imgur.com/vR7UM.jpg[IMG][/QUOTE]
my eyes!
 

wwm0nkey

Member
Solution to the Forge problem, don't make forge like previous games. Just let us make our own maps.

Also maybe expand the map maker with DLC items or something, just please don't make it like Halo 3 or Halo: Reach forge.
 
lybertyboy said:
Regarding DLC and matchmaking in Reach.

We are actively looking at implementation changes we can make which will allows users with DLC to be more likely to find other DLC users for matches. It's always a touchy balance weighing specific options like connection speeds, dlc latency with the need to find matches quickly. Nothing specific to report atm, but just want to let you know (even from my hotel room at 1:35am in Spain) that it's something we care deeply about.

Good to know.

Also worth noting to David and everyone else. Among my ranting about DLC implementation today, I realize that the options to improve DLC implementation for Reach are probably limited, and I don't expect 343 to be implementing some radical DLC implementation changes to Reach. Any changes they do make to try to help are very welcome though.

Bungie dropped the ball with DLC implementation with Reach. It was a disaster in H3, and for some reason they didn't come up with a good solution for Reach. Hopefully 343 has made sure that they have a good system set up for DLC implementation for Halo 4.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Steelyuhas said:
Good to know.

Also worth noting to David and everyone else. Among my ranting about DLC implementation today, I realize that the options to improve DLC implementation for Reach are probably limited, and I don't expect 343 to be implementing some radical DLC implementation changes to Reach. Any changes they do make to try to help are very welcome though.

Bungie dropped the ball with DLC implementation with Reach. It was a disaster in H3, and for some reason they didn't come up with a good solution for Reach. Hopefully 343 has made sure that they have a good system set up for DLC implementation for Halo 4.

I've said it before:

do the Fable 2 model. Free version of a map pack and a paid version. Only paid version can unlock achievements and allow you to save Forge variants or screenshots and films from that map.

That way you keep the userbase together but still have an incentive to purchase.

Requires the publisher to be behind it though.
 

Willeth

Member
FyreWulff said:
I've said it before:

do the Fable 2 model. Free version of a map pack and a paid version. Only paid version can unlock achievements and allow you to save Forge variants or screenshots and films from that map.

That way you keep the userbase together but still have an incentive to purchase.

Requires the publisher to be behind it though.
Or the Gears 3 model, where instead of offering a free download you put it on the disc, which has all of the same advantages but has the added bonus of your audience hating you for it.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Willeth said:
Or the Gears 3 model, where instead of offering a free download you put it on the disc, which has all of the same advantages but has the added bonus of your audience hating you for it.

And then forget to make it so your dedis ignore the locked content so nobody can actually use them in matchmaking.
 
FyreWulff said:
I've said it before:

do the Fable 2 model. Free version of a map pack and a paid version. Only paid version can unlock achievements and allow you to save Forge variants or screenshots and films from that map.

That way you keep the userbase together but still have an incentive to purchase.

Requires the publisher to be behind it though.

Any word on if that worked well or not?
 

ZalinKrow

Member
Zeouterlimits said:
I know rite, Zalin is such a scrub.

Why you complain all tiem?

Dat trueskill, those alt accounts

Haha the truth, it hurts :p

I don't think I'll be playing Grifball again for a while, I suck some major ass in that playlist. I pretty much had to start betraying that guy back too, just to try and survive. Oh well, "Welcome to Reach" and all that heh.
 

stephen08

Member
FyreWulff said:
I've said it before:

do the Fable 2 model. Free version of a map pack and a paid version. Only paid version can unlock achievements and allow you to save Forge variants or screenshots and films from that map.

That way you keep the userbase together but still have an incentive to purchase.

Requires the publisher to be behind it though.

That does not seem like it would be worth it. The whole appeal of new maps is that they are new playspaces. Everything else just supplements that.
 

NOKYARD

Member
thee henery said:
Agree with the general sentiment. But at the bolded, forge worlds should never be considered again. I hear people pining for a covie forgeworld; it would simply harbor all of the problems of the current FW sans a hundred shades of grey.

The original FW was five separate maps. Isn't this far preferable to one giant amalgamation in which only a small portion is used for forging whilst the rest of the unused space just adds to overall performance woes as we witness with the likes of Asylum et al?

Imagine four, foundry sized forge canvasses, with largely similar forge pieces but an individual aesthetic to each of the four spaces. Heck even a different colour to the pieces. With that, you've minimised framerate problems and helped to avoid the chronic visual fatigue we've experienced with the dull and characterless forgeworld.
That's what i meant and should i have explained it further. My vision sees medium-large size maps like Highlands, Battle Canyon and High Noon ship with the structures and scenery being forge pieces (or blank versions of the same space). Once cleared they would make for excellent blank canvases, while being able to make maps similar to the original. For instance, you could make the buildings on Battle Canyon protrude from higher up the walls leaving the ground open, or make High Noon symmetrical.
 
Top Bottom