Zeouterlimits
Member
*tears hair out*Slightly Live said:
This shit has to stop.
Anyway, thanks for that Dani, I'll give the first 3 a proper read and decide then.
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Halo: Reach |OT6| There Are Those Who Said This Day Would Never Come
- Thread starter GhaleonEB
- Start date
This shit has to stop.
Anyway, thanks for that Dani, I'll give the first 3 a proper read and decide then.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Ghaleon may still be residing in Bansville but he's delivered this week's sleepy sunday Beyond the Frontline.
BTF #5 : Fragging Health
Beyond the Frontline is a regular feature on Forward Unto Dawn where the staff here get up on the soapbox and put forward an idea or idea relating to Halo. Each BTF is a talking point designed to start a dialogue and unlike our regular word blasts and articles, the entries are short and sweet.
If you agree or disagree with any of the points raised we strongly encourage you to reply and be part of the conversation!
_______________________
Halos two layered recharging health system is one of its most defining traits, mimicked in countless shooters and action games since its release. It was the key that allowed Bungie to focus on refining moment to moment encounters in ways the DOOM-style classic health meter didnt. The developers could safely assume players would have a minimum threshold of life thanks to the recharging shield, and build out encounters accordingly.
But for such a key aspect of Halos game design, Bungie were unable to settle themselves on how to utilize it, and have made changes large and small with every subsequent Halo game. Bungie has changed the pace of the shield recharge, speeding up in Halo 2 and 3, which accelerated the pace of combat. Less time waiting for a shield recharge is less time spent hiding around a corner.
More drastically, Halo 2 and 3 actually hid the layer of health beneath the shields from players entirely, creating an invisible layer of recharging health once shields are depleted (and ditched health packs in the process). This cut out the process of hunting down health packs, which meant players spent more time in combat.
The removal of visible health also creates a tension between the aims of the game designers and the need for players to be kept aware of their condition. On paper, it sounds strange to restrict players from being able to see how much health they have left. After all, knowing how much health we have left is probably the most important thing for us to keep tabs on.
Bungie addressed this in two ways. The first was by simply observing how Halos shield system and weapon designs motivated players to behave, particularly in Multiplayer. Once shields are depleted were motivated to seek safety because were vulnerable to head shots from precision weapons. It doesnt matter how much health we have left under the shields: once theyre gone, we can be killed instantly, and we respond accordingly.
The second way was through weapon balance. Frag grenades and sniper rifle body shots strip fully loaded shields. Should either cut deep into player health below, they would appear to have inconsistent behavior, sometimes killing us when our shields the only visible indicator of health was full, and sometimes not.
A look at how visible health bar, recharging health and health packs points to another aspect of how Bungie has used the dual health system.
Until Reach, a recharging health meter has only been used when its hidden from us, likely also with combat pacing in mind. If health also gradually recovered, wed be motivated to stay in shelter until it was also recharged, which would slow down combat as everyone turtled up even longer between encounters. Motivating faster play was particularly important since Halo 3 (and to a greater degree, Reach) added elements such as Regens and Bubble Shields that extend the duration of encounters and often slow combat down. Adding in more incentives to slow the pace of the game would have a significant impact.
(ODSTS return to the heath pack system was done without the need to balance Multiplayer, and was in step with that games more methodically paced gameplay.)
We see this on display in Reach, which essentially splits the difference in the past approaches, using a partially recharging health bar that still necessitates a health pack for players to become whole. But as implemented, the approach is an odd one, since players with full shields and 1/3 health depleted can be instantly killed by a lone frag grenade; the partial recharge still sends us scurrying for health packs just as fast as before. When combined with the many other ways Reach slows down combat, though base traits and armor abilities, Reachs encounter time and the duration between them is often very long.
The return of a health bar in Reach also likely shifted the way weapons are balanced, in much the way the hidden bar did in Halo 2 and 3. Its hard to imagine Reachs grenades, which are fatal at full shields and marginal health damage (and vice versa), being included were health invisible. If health were hidden in Reach, wed have a grenade that would sometimes kill when we had full shields, and sometimes not; a reduction in damage and a return to their shield-stripping nature would have been the natural solution.
The ways Bungie has evolved the health model and pace of combat from game to game presents a challenge any time the idea of classic Halo game types come up. Changes in the health system, and related shifts in player traits have made each Halo title play distinctly different from the others. Which game sets the baseline for classic Halo? The answer will yield dramatically different games.
All of which raises the question of what route 343i will go with Halo 4. The Reach title update has been a clear signal that they are listening to the player base, and its telling that nearly all of the new options (damage bleed, Armor Lock adjustment, classic Magnum and Active Camo nerf) all accelerate the pace of combat. Whatever approach they take, our first look at the Halo 4 HUD will tell us much about their thinking, and what the pace of combat in Halo 4 is likely to be. The question is whether to build on Bungies latest effort, or to reach back for a more classic style of Halo. The question is, what is classic?
-GhaleonEB
Do you agree or disagree with us? Tell us what you think. Feel free to check out other BTF entries here.
BTF #5 : Fragging Health
Beyond the Frontline is a regular feature on Forward Unto Dawn where the staff here get up on the soapbox and put forward an idea or idea relating to Halo. Each BTF is a talking point designed to start a dialogue and unlike our regular word blasts and articles, the entries are short and sweet.
If you agree or disagree with any of the points raised we strongly encourage you to reply and be part of the conversation!
_______________________
Halos two layered recharging health system is one of its most defining traits, mimicked in countless shooters and action games since its release. It was the key that allowed Bungie to focus on refining moment to moment encounters in ways the DOOM-style classic health meter didnt. The developers could safely assume players would have a minimum threshold of life thanks to the recharging shield, and build out encounters accordingly.
But for such a key aspect of Halos game design, Bungie were unable to settle themselves on how to utilize it, and have made changes large and small with every subsequent Halo game. Bungie has changed the pace of the shield recharge, speeding up in Halo 2 and 3, which accelerated the pace of combat. Less time waiting for a shield recharge is less time spent hiding around a corner.
More drastically, Halo 2 and 3 actually hid the layer of health beneath the shields from players entirely, creating an invisible layer of recharging health once shields are depleted (and ditched health packs in the process). This cut out the process of hunting down health packs, which meant players spent more time in combat.
The removal of visible health also creates a tension between the aims of the game designers and the need for players to be kept aware of their condition. On paper, it sounds strange to restrict players from being able to see how much health they have left. After all, knowing how much health we have left is probably the most important thing for us to keep tabs on.
Bungie addressed this in two ways. The first was by simply observing how Halos shield system and weapon designs motivated players to behave, particularly in Multiplayer. Once shields are depleted were motivated to seek safety because were vulnerable to head shots from precision weapons. It doesnt matter how much health we have left under the shields: once theyre gone, we can be killed instantly, and we respond accordingly.
The second way was through weapon balance. Frag grenades and sniper rifle body shots strip fully loaded shields. Should either cut deep into player health below, they would appear to have inconsistent behavior, sometimes killing us when our shields the only visible indicator of health was full, and sometimes not.
A look at how visible health bar, recharging health and health packs points to another aspect of how Bungie has used the dual health system.
Until Reach, a recharging health meter has only been used when its hidden from us, likely also with combat pacing in mind. If health also gradually recovered, wed be motivated to stay in shelter until it was also recharged, which would slow down combat as everyone turtled up even longer between encounters. Motivating faster play was particularly important since Halo 3 (and to a greater degree, Reach) added elements such as Regens and Bubble Shields that extend the duration of encounters and often slow combat down. Adding in more incentives to slow the pace of the game would have a significant impact.
(ODSTS return to the heath pack system was done without the need to balance Multiplayer, and was in step with that games more methodically paced gameplay.)
We see this on display in Reach, which essentially splits the difference in the past approaches, using a partially recharging health bar that still necessitates a health pack for players to become whole. But as implemented, the approach is an odd one, since players with full shields and 1/3 health depleted can be instantly killed by a lone frag grenade; the partial recharge still sends us scurrying for health packs just as fast as before. When combined with the many other ways Reach slows down combat, though base traits and armor abilities, Reachs encounter time and the duration between them is often very long.
The return of a health bar in Reach also likely shifted the way weapons are balanced, in much the way the hidden bar did in Halo 2 and 3. Its hard to imagine Reachs grenades, which are fatal at full shields and marginal health damage (and vice versa), being included were health invisible. If health were hidden in Reach, wed have a grenade that would sometimes kill when we had full shields, and sometimes not; a reduction in damage and a return to their shield-stripping nature would have been the natural solution.
The ways Bungie has evolved the health model and pace of combat from game to game presents a challenge any time the idea of classic Halo game types come up. Changes in the health system, and related shifts in player traits have made each Halo title play distinctly different from the others. Which game sets the baseline for classic Halo? The answer will yield dramatically different games.
All of which raises the question of what route 343i will go with Halo 4. The Reach title update has been a clear signal that they are listening to the player base, and its telling that nearly all of the new options (damage bleed, Armor Lock adjustment, classic Magnum and Active Camo nerf) all accelerate the pace of combat. Whatever approach they take, our first look at the Halo 4 HUD will tell us much about their thinking, and what the pace of combat in Halo 4 is likely to be. The question is whether to build on Bungies latest effort, or to reach back for a more classic style of Halo. The question is, what is classic?
-GhaleonEB
Do you agree or disagree with us? Tell us what you think. Feel free to check out other BTF entries here.
ElzarTheBam said:
There were alot of tricks you had to know when arming the bomb on Halo2. Like, how to sit when arming to make sure the bomb doesn't fly out when they rocket you. Or how to rocket someone so the bomb flys out of the circle(lol). Or just throwing bodies down at the arm site on Terminal.
TERMINAL ASSAULT = ONE OF THE GREATEST GAMETYPES EVER
Hypertrooper
Member
I tried to play the TU playlist. My first time I played since Tuesday. I got matchmade with Mexicans. Perfect. It's 4pm here and there are no Europeans, who play the game right? Laggy experience confirmed. And it was laggy.
The Librarian
Banned
I want regenerating health in Halo 4 like in 2/3. Though just as important, I feel, is making sure Halo 4 doesn't adopt that SCREEN=RED WHEN HURT system. I don't like it. Make it like 2/3/Reach.
Gabotron ES
Member
Quitters and jerks are TU's playlist biggest problem.Hypertrooper said:
Hydranockz
Member
You don't ever play with Americans? Weird.Hypertrooper said:
Hypertrooper
Member
lol. When I play, I play with REAL Americans AND some Irish guys, who are always drunk.Hydranockz said:
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Hypertrooper said:
So, are Canadians fake Americans? =P
Hydranockz
Member
Actually, yeah, when I was in Mexico, I was getting 0.1 down... it didn't even get an upload for me lol.Hypertrooper said:
bobs...onGaf
Member
kylej said:
Dedicated servers wouldnt stop international interaction, they would just make the game unbearable for the people who dont live in the same country as the servers. They also wouldnt help with lag to the extent people think they would :S You would still get people with better pings.
P2P for life, until I play dedicated servers that change my mind of course.
BF3 says hi. You can filter by the region of the server if you feel like playing with or without aliens.bobs99 ... said:Dedicated servers wouldnt stop international interaction, they would just make the game unbearable for the people who dont live in the same country as the servers. They also wouldnt help with lag to the extent people think they would :S You would still get people with better pings.
P2P for life, until I play dedicated servers that change my mind of course.
bobs...onGaf
Member
kylej said:So it would be the same as now except people closer to each other would have better games.
P2P for life!! dat
Can I use that banner on my myspace?
MrBig said:
I dont know much about dedi servers, but if they set up a rack in the UK and I could play against UK people I would be quite happy. If I was forced to play on International Servers I would be pissed, that would be worse than PVP. I feel for the people who are in countries that wouldnt get the servers and would either have to play on International servers or would basically have to wait years to get a game.
The Henery
Member
It's incredible how an otherwise fine videogame like Halo Reach can be utterly ruined, desecrated, debased, defiled and smeared in 10 day old tramp semen simply by:
1. Allowing access to an AA like evade off of spawn
and
2. Putting up a challenge that incentivises 100 AR kills.
Scary how utterly broken the AR is in this game; I was using it earlier in multi-team, half asleep and shredding spartans that were barely within the outer areas of the reticle.
Why is evade still in this game off of spawn??? Anyone know?????
1. Allowing access to an AA like evade off of spawn
and
2. Putting up a challenge that incentivises 100 AR kills.
Scary how utterly broken the AR is in this game; I was using it earlier in multi-team, half asleep and shredding spartans that were barely within the outer areas of the reticle.
Why is evade still in this game off of spawn??? Anyone know?????
Gabotron ES
Member
I consider evade to be most annoying than armor lock, it needs to be specific to elites and invasion.thee henery said:
Gabotron ES
Member
Since when you can spawn with a power weapon? it is good implemented in MLG but it needs to be removed from default matchmaking.Tashi0106 said:
Hopefully 343 notices this before Halo 4 launches.
I know, it's ridiculous that you can start with it. I was playing some TU playlist last night and I'm amazed that there are still gametypes that use the full loadout list. For real?Gabotron ES said:
Also, I have an issue. You know when you go to get a health pack or pick up an armor ability you're forced to reload your gun if it needs reloading? Yea well, that shouldn't be like that. Those pick ups should block the reloading. It really makes me mad when I'm in a battle at a health pack and am waiting to pick it up, do so but am forced to reload.
I've been bitching (along with many others) about Evade on Spartans since forever. It baffles the fucking mind how 343 nerfed camo an armor ability which hardly anyone uses but then leaves Evade untouched. They may have listened about bloom and bleed through but they need to get their heads out of their asses on that one. And the AR is a complete fucking joke. I really would like to see multi team turn to ZB sometime down the line. For someone who primarily uses the pistol it's unbearable most times in there. It's like Bungie tried their damn hardest with bloom, low ammo count, and the pistol rate of fire nerf to make pistol users frustrated. I have to fucking aim a tiny ass reticule on the screen while the clown using the AR just has to aim in the general direction. Ridiculous damage, range, ammo count, and stopping power. The fucking bullets with their retarded stopping power making my screen shake violently whenever I get shot at by one of those weapons so like as if it wasn't difficult enough using the pistol the damn AR throws off my aim the entire time. Not to mention also that bloom doesn't matter at all for that weapon and they can aim from like a mile away and still cause significant damage. As someon who prefers precision weapons it feels like I have an arm tied behind my back. That's clearly what Bungie was going for.
Anyway back to Evade... You can Evade forwards, sidewards, and backwards. Didn't anyone at Bungie think that was retarded at all? The fucking Evade + Sword combo people. Hello? Also, you all know how fucking slow the aiming analog stick is so how the hell can you have something so stupid in the game? At least give us an option to set the sensitivity on the damn thing. It's so frustrating when I see some jackass fly up with the jet pack a few feet from me and then it takes forever for my aiming stick to get up to his point because the damn thing is so freaking slow. Now also consider how unbearable aiming can get with people rolling all over the place.
Anyway back to Evade... You can Evade forwards, sidewards, and backwards. Didn't anyone at Bungie think that was retarded at all? The fucking Evade + Sword combo people. Hello? Also, you all know how fucking slow the aiming analog stick is so how the hell can you have something so stupid in the game? At least give us an option to set the sensitivity on the damn thing. It's so frustrating when I see some jackass fly up with the jet pack a few feet from me and then it takes forever for my aiming stick to get up to his point because the damn thing is so freaking slow. Now also consider how unbearable aiming can get with people rolling all over the place.
The Librarian
Banned
Some people can't appreciate good art.Tashi0106 said:
*turns nose up at Tashi*
Steelyuhas
Member
Tashi0106 said:
There is a trick to not reload when picking up a healthpack, but I can't remember what it is. I'll see if I can find it.
For default settings, if 343 doesn't get evade back with Elites in Invasion only where it belongs we are going to have some problems (not really cause I'll never playing anything outside of an Anniversary gametype playlist once CEA drops).
Steelyuhas
Member
Here it is! Here it is! Here it is!Tashi0106 said:
A melee huh? Nice find bro, thanks. I'm gonna try this later. I was hoping for a complete solution but this certainly helps. The thing is though that I still can't go right into battling. There's still a delay. There has to be a way to have no animation at all.Steelyuhas said:
Steelyuhas
Member
Tashi0106 said:
Welcome to Reach.
What do you think this is, Halo CE?
A27_StarWolf
Banned
Kibbles said:
What if I don't want to pick up the health pack?
xxjuicesxx
Member
Disregard objectives, acquire blains.
StalkerUKCG
Banned
Id like to think id be played by paul walker.
A27_StarWolf
Banned
heckfu said:
Really though, even though it seems silly its pretty reasonable....
Tha Robbertster
Member
Yeah, in ODST it was pretty anoying when you picked up a healthpack when you didn't really need one.A27_StarWolf said:
Gabotron ES
Member
Do you guys ever boot someone when it's obvious it wasn't on purpose? For me, each time I accidentally betray someone BAM! instant boot.
For Halo 4 we should have ingame messages just like when you kill someone, something like:
You betrayed Gabo.
You were forgiven by Gabo.
What do you guys think?
P.S: Evade, Paradiso and Utopie sucks. Kill them, kill them all.
For Halo 4 we should have ingame messages just like when you kill someone, something like:
You betrayed Gabo.
You were forgiven by Gabo.
What do you guys think?
P.S: Evade, Paradiso and Utopie sucks. Kill them, kill them all.
Gabotron ES said:
One of my favorite behaviors is, in a close game, someone on your team is curious about your armor, so they shoot you a couple of times. As if it's some kind of magnifying glass. And they do it another four or five times, often just enough to wack your shield.