But the pistol is too weak also. Not in its killing power, in its mag size.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Halo: Reach |OT7| What are They to Say Now?
- Thread starter The Librarian
- Start date
But the pistol is too weak also. Not in its killing power, in its mag size.
In the newest TU gametypes, this is the situation:
If someone shoots you 4 times with the pistol, your shields will not pop.
If someone shoots you 4 times with the DMR, your shields WILL pop.
In both cases, you are 1 headshot away from death. How does this make sense? What is the point of the feedback system? It seems like they make things even more obtuse trying to justify the existence of bleedthrough outside of classic gametypes. Not even an attempt by increasing the pistol's damage so it'd actually pop your shields on the 4th shot. And they still haven't fixed the health pack bug that bleedthrough causes.
Hey, at least its not H3 weak.
I got a taste of that a few days ago, unbelievable that gun was even in the game. Of course, that AR was worse as well.
I'm fine with AR/Pistol starts, but what we really need is the BR back, maybe with a bit of spread when its not a red-reticule so you can't cross map as easily with it.
H4, Pistol 5sk (obviously without the bloom garbage it has now and maybe an ROF cap), BR 4sk (hitscan burst, very accurate red reticule)? Pistol/AR starts?
Keep track of how many times you've been shot in your brain? If you've been shot 4 times, and your shields haven't popped, it might be time to seek cover regardless.
Or maybe there should be sort of this sound effect or something. It can go off when I'm in the heat of battle, and that would tell me it'd be a good idea to keep my head down because now I can be killed in one headshot. It'd be like a pop or something, a shield to protect me from bad decisions.
Also for the record, the quote from 343 which makes people feel we've been let down:
It's no longer available since it was on the old system, but here's a Forgehub mirror.
The beeping, I think, does get more intense the lower your shield is. However, that may not be as much of an alert as you are thinking. I'm not really sure what they could add that would be sufficient; maybe a red, flashing 'alert' next to your shield bar before it goes down, haha.
Gears has some sort of strange sound effect that goes off right before you are about to be downed.
What in that quote are you objecting to?
squidhands
Member
I'd much rather have the ODST pistol clip, but in theory it would promote a little more movement off spawn to find more pistol ammo/whatever ranged rifle you want. I remember someone mentioning this a few pages back, but I'd love to see the return of ammunition placed on the map rather than just a weapon. At least in some instances.
I think it needs to be said that I enjoy the DMR immensely, I just think the range is too great and the scope is too powerful.
ncsuDuncan
Member
The impression I always had was that in quotes like the one you posted they really meant:
- The TU will give us new knobs to make Anniversary gametypes more classic.
- Don't worry, we aren't going to make every playlist use Anniversary/Classic settings. You'll still be able to play "normal" Reach.
- The TU also makes other tweaks possible, and if the reception in the TU beta playlist is positive we can implement those changes across all playlists.
I never saw it as a guarantee that the TU would never touch any pre-existing Reach playlist. Differences in interpretation, I guess.
-------
0% bloom and 100% bloom can coexist in the playlist lineup. It's pretty obvious which one you're using. Same with 0% and 85%.
85% bloom and 100% bloom can't (or shouldn't). Pick one and stick with it.
-------
Bleedthrough causes more problems than it fixes. It isn't worth breaking the feedback system just to change the melee system. I wasn't a fan of Reach's original melee system, but it wasn't broken.
This is another change that should be all-or-nothing (preferably nothing in this case). A player has no idea if bleedthrough is turned on until he dies, and even then it isn't completely obvious. I can understand keeping bleedthrough in the Classic gametypes though, because those are easily recognized by the lack of AAs.
- The TU will give us new knobs to make Anniversary gametypes more classic.
- Don't worry, we aren't going to make every playlist use Anniversary/Classic settings. You'll still be able to play "normal" Reach.
- The TU also makes other tweaks possible, and if the reception in the TU beta playlist is positive we can implement those changes across all playlists.
I never saw it as a guarantee that the TU would never touch any pre-existing Reach playlist. Differences in interpretation, I guess.
-------
0% bloom and 100% bloom can coexist in the playlist lineup. It's pretty obvious which one you're using. Same with 0% and 85%.
85% bloom and 100% bloom can't (or shouldn't). Pick one and stick with it.
-------
Bleedthrough causes more problems than it fixes. It isn't worth breaking the feedback system just to change the melee system. I wasn't a fan of Reach's original melee system, but it wasn't broken.
This is another change that should be all-or-nothing (preferably nothing in this case). A player has no idea if bleedthrough is turned on until he dies, and even then it isn't completely obvious. I can understand keeping bleedthrough in the Classic gametypes though, because those are easily recognized by the lack of AAs.
And really, there wasn't any need for interpretation, since 343 elaborated many times that they would bubble the new tweaked settings into other playlists over time. It was basically:
--TU changes would expand to other playlists.
--But not all of them, so that 'vanilla' Reach fans still have playlists to call home.
They'd said that many times leading up to the TU release and the current matchmaking update. That's why I'm curious what FyreWulff finds objectionable in the quote.
squidhands
Member
I think he's saying that 343 has now extended the TU to vanilla Reach, making them big fat liars with pants afire.
I think. I've had a lot of coffee this cold morning and now I can't seem to concentr...ooh, something shiny!
Your jib, I like it's cut.
Eh, vanilla Reach is an abomination, it should be minimized as much as possible.
85% bloom only enrages me occasionally, where 100% is pretty much non-stop rage.
Its too bad they didn't change the shield regen/time-till-recharge rates
Playing Halo 3 really reminds you how staggeringly long it takes for you to get your shields back.
I know if bleedthrough is on before I die, because I know what playlist I am in I'd be fine if there was no shooting bleedthrough, but I definitely prefer melee bleedthrough.
Is there some nerd art thread on gaf somewhere? I need other game nerds to share with.
85% bloom only enrages me occasionally, where 100% is pretty much non-stop rage.
Its too bad they didn't change the shield regen/time-till-recharge rates
Playing Halo 3 really reminds you how staggeringly long it takes for you to get your shields back.I know if bleedthrough is on before I die, because I know what playlist I am in
I'd be fine if there was no shooting bleedthrough, but I definitely prefer melee bleedthrough.Is there some nerd art thread on gaf somewhere? I need other game nerds to share with.
Moar like big, sexy saviors.
I'd prefer the headshot thing to be fixed, but the other awesome overrules it.
The Librarian
Banned
Actually I think evade is most annoying in Living Dead.
Pro-pipe is the funnest weapon to be introduced into a Halo game since...well, actually, it's the funnest weapon to be introduced in a Halo game in the series' history.
Reagan's BR
Banned
Gabotron ES
Member
Something really weird happened to me while on the Invasion playlist, I... I'm still shocked.
It was like something I have never seen before...
It was like something I have never seen before...
The Librarian
Banned
Have you ever seen a more beautiful weapon? Such splendor. A sculpture, surely.
squidhands
Member
Hypertrooper
Member
So hot.
Have you ever seen a more beautiful weapon? Such splendor. A sculpture, surely.
I honestly think they are leaving it in so that when Halo 4 comes out, it will be THAT much better.
Yeah I'm getting pretty bored of DMR starts. So much long range pinging. And its funny, the counter to the long range pinging, is the thing we hate most.
I'd like AR starts if the pistol wasn't so shitty. BR >>> DMR
Seriously, Grenade launcher is perfectly balanced. It SHOULD have replaced rocket launcher for Reach, but that would have made too much sense. Instead we have that atomic rocket launcher for some reason
Have you ever seen a more beautiful weapon? Such splendor. A sculpture, surely.
lol you can go like +35 in Boneyard Invasion by just picking up a DMR/Needle Rifle, I love it
Gabotron ES
Member
:lol I actually have more fun playing Invasion than MLG's ultra hardcore insta-death from across the map settings.
What actually happened is, after more than 300 games of Invasion I played freaking Breakpoint for the first time, I almost chocked when I saw the voting screen.
That's it, Breakpoint!
Its a rare situation, but getting the falcon on Breakpoint invasion with 3 competent players is the greatest thing about Reach. Literally unstoppable.
Reagan's BR
Banned
I hated nothing more than getting stuck with invasion breakpoint when that DLC first came out. So many games of the same thing. Over and over.
Tha Robbertster
Member
My god, it's glorious!
Same settings. Except you move faster. No bloom settings don't change much.
You just get teamwork'd on.
Gabotron ES
Member
BlueScrote
Member
I went into MLG for the first time since the playlists introduction last night. I may have went significantly negative in a couple of games, purely being outshot by teams.
The Librarian
Banned
Letters, we need a photoshop of God handing Adam a pro-pipe stat.
ncsuDuncan
Member
Simply deleting the Spartan Laser would be a little drastic - I think it fills a valuable role as an anti-vehicle weapon with zero travel time. Rockets are slow and can be dodged (although I agree about giving Banshee aerobatics a limit/cooldown) but the tradeoff is that you can lock onto air vehicles or fire instantly at ground vehicles without waiting for a lock or charge-up.
Idea 1: What if the Spartan Laser just had an EMP effect? Keep the charge-up and projectile speed mechanics, but make it a non-lethal weapon. Give it a wider beam so it's easier to aim (and so it can hit multiple infantry at a long distance, popping their shields). It would be a great way to harass distant vehicles and ground a Banshee without directly causing their destruction. Would require teamwork for kills though (or intelligent weapon swapping).
Idea 2: Replace the Spartan Laser's single-burst beam with the Focus Rifle's steady beam (only more damaging). Keep the charge-up, but take away the instant kill - you have to keep the beam on an enemy vehicle to eat away its health.
Either way, in both ideas the targeting laser should be more noticeable to the target.
The Librarian
Banned
I think the laser should be dropped all together too. I don't think you can ever make a no-travel time weapon fun. A large part of the fun and tension of driving vehicles comes from being on the lookout and avoiding anti-vehicle weapons. Weapons with no travel time don't give you a chance to avoid it. There's no clever "dance" involved.
Edit: "no-travel time weapon" as it relates to anti-vehicle weapons. Not hitscan weapons and stuff.
Edit: "no-travel time weapon" as it relates to anti-vehicle weapons. Not hitscan weapons and stuff.
I can get behind the 2nd idea. As long as the warning beam is noticeable.
But the 2nd would be just as bad as the laser. They need to keep harassing and can lock you down without killing you. Whereas if you miss with the laser you get a window of opportunity.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Steelyuhas
Member
I was waiting for the GIF, and it did not disappoint. Bravo.
Pro-pipe is the funnest weapon to be introduced into a Halo game since...well, actually, it's the funnest weapon to be introduced in a Halo game in the series' history.
I don't believe you lol.
MLG had the Shotgun in v1 Reach, not sure why they took it out.
The Spartan Laser is basically a sniper rifle for vehicles, and should be timed/placed as such.
At minimum, there should be one present on a map with a Banshee on it. Alternately, make the rocket lock on as hard as the missile pod's.
At minimum, there should be one present on a map with a Banshee on it. Alternately, make the rocket lock on as hard as the missile pod's.
Now I hope Duncan posts so we can complete the wolf avatar combo
Combo breaker.
Laser countering banshee isn't game balance I enjoy (As both are instant death machines).
Same with bloom countering the 3x scope, slow movement speed countering sprint, low jump countering jetpack, etc
Steelyuhas
Member
dick.
I agree. There are far better ways to balance flying vehicles than the laser. The laser should never appear anywhere. Thing is straight terrible.
ncsuDuncan
Member
There is a sniper rifle for vehicles. It's called the sniper rifle and you can use it to headshot a Warthog or Scorpion pilot. (Well, in previous games. Nobody does that anymore because you're better off just shooting the vehicle with the sniper. I hate that.)
When you snipe someone, you only get an insta-kill if you hit them in the head. That takes skill. With the Spartan Laser you don't have to aim for a specific portion of your target.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
I think the needler should counter vehicles. Pink needles that explode when implanted in objects? Should shred vehicles.
I am being fairly serious too.
ElzarTheBam
Member
Agreed, the spartan laser is BTB breaking weapon, get rid of it, the plasma launcher, is a far more balanced weapon.
Well, in the 3 the sniper rifle deflected off vehicles. In Reach it actually hurts them.
People still refuse to shoot down the 'shee with their sniper though.
edit: THE COMBO WILL NEVER HAPPEN
Steelyuhas
Member
I thought that the Plasma Launcher was supposed to replace the Laser in Reach, which I think was a good thing, but then they went and included the laser in the game anyways and nerfed the shit out of the launcher, and not really putting it on maps either.
Wait approximately eight seconds and a new shotgun will spawn.
There, we fixed the map, never have to touch it again! Ship it. Halo Anniversary, in stores this holiday season.
Gabotron ES
Member
Funny cause Reach's needler and nerfle do almost zero damage to vehicles.
There was a lot more anti-vehicle in the beta. I remember flipping over and pinning Warthogs against the gates on Boneyard in the beta with the focus rifle.
Ugh, don't remind me of that. Elite team is high disadvantaged in Invasion Slayer once the vehicle drops get going. The other team's guns tear your vehicles apart, your guns deflect off theirs..
BTW, my Headlong Invasion variant has no Jetpacks and no Armor Lock. I might start Elites with DMRs in the later round due to the vehicle deflection shenanigans, and justify it with their base being in a human building.
I think the concept of a sniper rifle for vehicles is poor design. A vehicle counter is one thing (plasma over charge, plasma grenade, etc.), but the laser is a vehicle trump card from across the map. It provides the vehicle driver virtually no notice that they are about to be instantaneously destroyed by an enemy they often cannot see. Given the role vehicles play in BTB, the counter moves to them should be more nuanced, along the lines that Duncan suggested.
I think the idea of having the Beam Rifle do significant, gradual damage to vehicles is the right direction. Alternately, I suggest a weapon that fires relatively slow moving but homing projectiles that give the pilot/driver a klaxon warning when they are locked onto. That way they know they are being targeted, and have a chance to initiate evasive maneuvers (or a bail out) before the instantly explode.
Steelyuhas
Member
Focus rifle was beast mode in the beta.
Oh beta sandbox, how I miss thee (for the most part, not everything was better).