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Halo: Reach |OT7| What are They to Say Now?

Yeah, Reach's perceived population issues are due to the gameplay.. this is why the TU Beta list and the MLG playlist with the superior Feels Like Halo Again Settings have over 50% of the online population at any moment.


I absolutely think that Reach's population issues are down to gameplay. In game itself fun is subjective, but generally if a game doesnt keep players interested the population will drop. If players arent retained they wont recommend the game to friends.

I know your of the opinion that the population issues are down to a more diverse market, so I guess we can agree to disagree. :p

this is why the TU Beta list and the MLG playlist with the superior Feels Like Halo Again Settings have over 50% of the online population at any moment.

1) I dont really want to go there, but as I said, in game fun is subjective.
2) The MLG and hardcore crowd have always been in the minority general population wise. Not because it sucks, but because like in any medium most people dont really have that level of involvment in games. Just as you wouldnt expect the average cinema go'er to want to really get involved in film. When I say hardcore, I dont even just mean in terms of MLG skill, I just mean in terms of the guys that will go back and play the game a lot and get really invested in it. Whether thats in forge, theatre,campaign, firefight or multiplayer. Not catering to your most dedicated demographic is a pretty big mistake, because those are the guys who will really help push the game and keep it going.
3) That said... for people who have already given up on Reach of course a DLC playlist would be underpopulated. Your not going to sell DLC to people who have given up on the core game.

Maybe im wrong, but im willing to bet Halo 4 wont have the same population issues against a crowded market, as long as the gameplay lives up to expectations. I guess we will only really see when its out though. I do think that Halo 4 will have a large initial player base.
 

GhaleonEB

Member
I absolutely think that Reach's population issues are down to gameplay. In game itself fun is subjective, but generally if a game doesnt keep players interested the population will drop. If players arent retained they wont recommend the game to friends.

I know your of the opinion that the population issues are down to a more diverse market, so I guess we can agree to disagree. :p

Aye.
 

monome

Member
My Halo 4 dreamlist :

1/ Gameplay first (just as nailed as Jesus), the Return of The Ballerine Tankman
2/ innovative and awe inspiring MP maps (alien technology, physics from other worlds, vistas from ther universes)
3/ SP exploration and hub structure (drools)
4/ a very aggressive (energy handheld weapon + big gun) ennemy that draws on covies with a solid pattern that finds a good balance between hard to kill and a choir to kill + a second new ennemy that draws on flood (swarm of smart AI controled semi organic robots) so I can fuck it up with grenades and other heavy weapons butcher-style.
5/ covenants in the game for three-way gunfights
6/ humans that use forunner tech on weapons and vehicles
7/ vehicular sections within forunner tech (Sphinx>banshee, in my dreams at least)
8/ Story DLC ( without Chief but using Halo 4 engine)
9/ enough maps and playlists to satisfy my fellow Gaffers, but not so much as to spoil them (which Bungie with its all-encompassing love did)
10/
forunner armor accessible in MP without me having to cease all love/social life


It goes without question the story has to rock, ROCK. Time to slap George Lucas' constipated face and get Spartans throw pussy Jedis down the pit.
 

FyreWulff

Member
I absolutely think that Reach's population issues are down to gameplay. In game itself fun is subjective, but generally if a game doesnt keep players interested the population will drop. If players arent retained they wont recommend the game to friends.

I know your of the opinion that the population issues are down to a more diverse market, so I guess we can agree to disagree. :p

The only people that seem to have a problem with Reach's gameplay are the ones that would rather every single Halo game play like Halo 1 or 2. And since Halo 4 seems to be trending towards being a Halo 2 clone with the TU settings 343 feels that Reach "needed", I guess they'll get their wish.

I really want to see someone explain to me what they don't like about Reach without going 'well, it doesn't feel like PREVIOUS_HALO_GAME'. I'll tell you what I don't like about Reach without referencing the other games:

1) Evade is overpowered and only an idiot would choose Armor Lock or Sprint over it. It's faster than Sprint for getting you across a map, can be used for launches, and is better at getting you out of a bad situation than Armor Lock. It should have never been on Spartans, or the spartan variant should have had smaller impulse and travel distance.


1b) Then making a zombies gametype where previously Evade was all you had because somebody decided that spawning the humans with a bloomless-on-the-first shot pistol was a great idea, and then took away your Evade for Sprint, so that you're basically feeding humans kills until they run out of ammo.

2) Bungie's decision to lock spawns on maps just because people whined loudly until they got them, sharply dropping the amount of safe locations to spawn in for Slayer gametypes (why do I want to spawn in the base? I'm not defending an objective inside of it) and increasing spawncamping. They have a great spawn engine in Reach and they undersell it big time.

3) Bungie's decision to make Team Objective 99% DMR start. I swear nobody at Bungie plays Objective gametypes.

4) Oversight on allowing the Gauss Warthog to fire through Forge World objects, which means no community made variants can use it.

5) Re-using Crater's geometry for campaign but not making it a Firefight mission.

6) Giving the Spartans everything and Elites about nothing in Invasion gametypes. Spartans always spawn with and near headshot capable weapons for the first phase, Elites do not.

7) Removing the banshee's angle limiter that it had in Halo 3 and not having the tricks use meter, making it a scorpion of the skies. It seems obvious that all their attention was on the Falcon.

8) Failing to give us an actual geometry editor, then unlearning all their tricks from the Halo 3 DLC and shipping maps with extremely limited Forge palettes

8a) Speaking of editing, shipping the Juggernaut gametype in it's condition and then doing nothing to give it better features or choices before they handed it off to 343.

9) Making the grav lift on Sword Base unForgeable then removing the disabled grav lift and the 1 flag setup from the beta. It was unique and now it's derivative.

9b) Making the flag cap and spawn the same object.

10) 343 for completely failing to fix Evade, the gauss hog glitch, or any other of the known bugs in Reach in their title update.

11) The fact that 343 lied about elements of the update. Claiming they had done something to counter the bloomless DMR's Rate of Fire (nope), claiming vanilla Reach would stay vanilla Reach, then pushing the unpopular TU playlist's settings into existing playlists, and playlists where it doesn't even make sense why (Multi Team? really?)

12) The fact that they've attempted to implement bleed through without re-implementing the feedback system to account for this addition, and seem to not care that they've broken a fundamental game design component. When bleed through was touted as for allowing a further simulation of the Halo 1 experience for Anniversary modes and nothing more.

13) 343's acknowledgement that the banshee is overpowered, oh no it was out of scope of the TU to be changed, then allowing the banshee to remain in matchmaking and in fact allowing it to be put on NEW DLC maps. Every match on Breakneck devolves into Catch The Banshee.



Movement speed? Fine. If you made it faster, the designers of the maps would have just stretched them out horizontally to counter it so there'd be the same travel times. Jump height? Same thing again - maps would have had vertical scaling to counter it, just like Tombstone was. Bloom? I understand it completely, have no problem with it, and have never gotten a lucky kill from spamming. Before the 343 TU, I never got angry at a bullshit kill because I knew my shields had popped a few seconds before and I was 1-shot. Now depending on whatever gametype I'm in, I can have shields and then just suddenly die.


Maybe they should contract out Bungie for Reach 1.2 so they can show 343 how a title update is supposed to work. Not like Microsoft is going to put the money behind a 1.2 anyway, so now we're stuck with Reach with broken fundamentals and half-assed stupid decisions or Reach with solid fundamentals and stupid decisions. They spend all their time contracting out all their work on Anniversary, it shouldn't be too far a stretch to contract out further Reach support to Bungie, who seemed more enthusiastic about supporting their game post-launch even though they didn't own the IP anymore and was going to no longer make any more titles in the franchise than the developer that permanently has the reigns to it.

So now that I've put my cards on the table, please for the love of god tell me why you think Reach has gameplay bad enought that it would be driving away people while ignoring the fact that Halo no longer exists in an online vacuum. IMO, people got spoiled by Halo being #1 for so long while ignoring the fact that Halo 2 held the charts for so long because it was the only game worth playing on the original Xbox live. If Halo 2 came out this generation, it would have been dead within a couple of months from all the exploits, cheats and glitches it had.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Counter-strike and Star Wars Battlefront weren't worth playing?

I had both those games. (I even ran a OXbox Dedicated Server overnight for Counterstrike) Their populations were a tiny fraction of Halo 2's population, and didn't have Halo 2's interface.

Halo 2 was basically the replacement for the OXbox Live dashboard for many people.
 
The only people that seem to have a problem with Reach's gameplay are the ones that would rather every single Halo game play like Halo 1 or 2. And since Halo 4 seems to be trending towards being a Halo 2 clone with the TU settings 343 feels that Reach "needed", I guess they'll get their wish.

I really want to see someone explain to me what they don't like about Reach without going 'well, it doesn't feel like PREVIOUS_HALO_GAME'. I'll tell you what I don't like about Reach without referencing the other games:

1) Evade is overpowered and only an idiot would choose Armor Lock or Sprint over it. It's faster than Sprint for getting you across a map, can be used for launches, and is better at getting you out of a bad situation than Armor Lock. It should have never been on Spartans, or the spartan variant should have had smaller impulse and travel distance.


1b) Then making a zombies gametype where previously Evade was all you had because somebody decided that spawning the humans with a bloomless-on-the-first shot pistol was a great idea, and then took away your Evade for Sprint, so that you're basically feeding humans kills until they run out of ammo.

2) Bungie's decision to lock spawns on maps just because people whined loudly until they got them, sharply dropping the amount of safe locations to spawn in for Slayer gametypes (why do I want to spawn in the base? I'm not defending an objective inside of it) and increasing spawncamping. They have a great spawn engine in Reach and they undersell it big time.

3) Bungie's decision to make Team Objective 99% DMR start. I swear nobody at Bungie plays Objective gametypes.

4) Oversight on allowing the Gauss Warthog to fire through Forge World objects, which means no community made variants can use it.

5) Re-using Crater's geometry for campaign but not making it a Firefight mission.

6) Giving the Spartans everything and Elites about nothing in Invasion gametypes. Spartans always spawn with and near headshot capable weapons for the first phase, Elites do not.

7) Removing the banshee's angle limiter that it had in Halo 3 and not having the tricks use meter, making it a scorpion of the skies. It seems obvious that all their attention was on the Falcon.

8) Failing to give us an actual geometry editor, then unlearning all their tricks from the Halo 3 DLC and shipping maps with extremely limited Forge palettes

8a) Speaking of editing, shipping the Juggernaut gametype in it's condition and then doing nothing to give it better features or choices before they handed it off to 343.

9) Making the grav lift on Sword Base unForgeable then removing the disabled grav lift and the 1 flag setup from the beta. It was unique and now it's derivative.

9b) Making the flag cap and spawn the same object.

10) 343 for completely failing to fix Evade, the gauss hog glitch, or any other of the known bugs in Reach in their title update.

11) The fact that 343 lied about elements of the update. Claiming they had done something to counter the bloomless DMR's Rate of Fire (nope), claiming vanilla Reach would stay vanilla Reach, then pushing the unpopular TU playlist's settings into existing playlists, and playlists where it doesn't even make sense why (Multi Team? really?)

12) The fact that they've attempted to implement bleed through without re-implementing the feedback system to account for this addition, and seem to not care that they've broken a fundamental game design component. When bleed through was touted as for allowing a further simulation of the Halo 1 experience for Anniversary modes and nothing more.

13) 343's acknowledgement that the banshee is overpowered, oh no it was out of scope of the TU to be changed, then allowing the banshee to remain in matchmaking and in fact allowing it to be put on NEW DLC maps. Every match on Breakneck devolves into Catch The Banshee.



Movement speed? Fine. If you made it faster, the designers of the maps would have just stretched them out horizontally to counter it so there'd be the same travel times. Jump height? Same thing again - maps would have had vertical scaling to counter it, just like Tombstone was. Bloom? I understand it completely, have no problem with it, and have never gotten a lucky kill from spamming. Before the 343 TU, I never got angry at a bullshit kill because I knew my shields had popped a few seconds before and I was 1-shot. Now depending on whatever gametype I'm in, I can have shields and then just suddenly die.


Maybe they should contract out Bungie for Reach 1.2 so they can show 343 how a title update is supposed to work. Not like Microsoft is going to put the money behind a 1.2 anyway, so now we're stuck with Reach with broken fundamentals and half-assed stupid decisions or Reach with solid fundamentals and stupid decisions. They spend all their time contracting out all their work on Anniversary, it shouldn't be too far a stretch to contract out further Reach support to Bungie, who seemed more enthusiastic about supporting their game post-launch even though they didn't own the IP anymore and was going to no longer make any more titles in the franchise than the developer that permanently has the reigns to it.

So now that I've put my cards on the table, please for the love of god tell me why you think Reach has gameplay bad enought that it would be driving away people while ignoring the fact that Halo no longer exists in an online vacuum.

Your really going to play the "people just want Halo .5" card? Halo has changed over the years and retained its population. With Reach I would argue that the changes where bad, rather than it was bad that there were changes.

Im in a break at work, so cant exactly write up a detailed list of mechanics and explain them. If anything I really hope your not going to pretend that others havent already done the same thing? I can remember some VERY detailed posts explaining why various mechanics dont work. Ghaleon wrote articles during the beta and im pretty sure he didnt need to compare them to older Halo games to explain the fualts. If no one else can link you to his posts I will actually hunt them down myself rather than writing lengthy posts which have already been written multiple times.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Your really going to play the "people just want Halo .5" card? Halo has changed over the years and retained its population. With Reach I would argue that the changes where bad, rather than it was bad that there were changes.

Im in a break at work, so cant exactly write up a detailed list of mechanics and explain them. If anything I really hope your not going to pretend that others havent already done the same thing? I can remember some VERY detailed posts explaining why various mechanics dont work. Ghaleon wrote articles during the beta and im pretty sure he didnt need to compare them to older Halo games to explain the fualts. If no one else can link you to his posts I will actually hunt them down myself rather than writing lengthy posts which have already been written multiple times.

I specifically want your reasons. I've already read other reasons from other people, yes.
 

monome

Member
you think Reach has gameplay bad enough that it would be driving away people while ignoring the fact that Halo no longer exists in an online vacuum.

Most people are stisfied with COD, and COD gameplay is nowhere near Halo. The gameplay problem is inexistent for the mass of players.

What I saw happen is Halo moving from the de facto MP game to a MP experience that tries too hard which I guess echoes some people desires to get back to better times aka Halo 2 (when the King was King).

If 343i is a smart business then I hope they realised that :

1st spot on XBL is unachievable but 2nd makes it easier to please a tighter crowd
or
they have to muscle-up Rocky Balboa style ifthey want to live the american dream (which I thought they would but the choice of disclosing the game to be part of a trilogy is both ballsy and tame and reinforces my belief MS will support Halo as an entertainment brand jsut as much as a game franchise)
 

monome

Member
I have a love hate relationship with Fyre, I generally love the guy but also hate his opinions on Halo. :p

Despite differing opinions we can play and enjoy the game.

Yeah that's what enchants me. Bird on wolf action baby!

Can I have some halogaf love even though i ain't a super player? add me, i want to play!!!
 

FyreWulff

Member
eh too mean

Fast edit there. I STILL LOVE YOU MAN. Especially since you missed that I wasn't defending Bungie at all for the entire first half of that post :p


Also holy shit the Skyrim player's guide is a goddamn phonebook. It wouldn't matter if there was bloom, if you threw this at someone they would die.


edit: this guide really loves the phrase "In short,"
 

kylej

Banned
Fast edit there. I STILL LOVE YOU MAN.

I didn't want to come off that dickish, just saying your passion for Reach/Halo/Bungie is wasted on us miserable assholes. I think a lot of the regulars are just too burned out to have serious conversations about the games. I agree with a lot of your sentiments however, especially #8. The fact Forge is the way it is in Reach still blows my mind.

vvv now THERE's a kid whose posts I'm not gonna read
 
I didn't want to come off that dickish, jsut saying your passion for Reach/Halo/Bungie is wasted on us idiots. I think a lot of the regulars are just too burned out to have serious conversations about the games. I agree with a lot of your sentiments however, especially #8. The fact Forge is the way it is in Reach still blows my mind.

So you actually read his post and then just posted "does anyone read these posts?". Or maybe you didn't read his post, saw it was too dickish and then read his post. I mean, it's not like Fyre is the only poster who writes up long posts about Reach here. Heck, it's almost as if there are quite a few posters here who contribute greatly to Halo fansites.

Gotta love calling those that don't read his posts idiots and those that do read his posts nerds.

^^^ Gotta love dem edits brah :D
 

monome

Member
Fast edit there. I STILL LOVE YOU MAN. Especially since you missed that I wasn't defending Bungie at all for the entire first half of that post :p


Also holy shit the Skyrim player's guide is a goddamn phonebook. It wouldn't matter if there was bloom, if you threw this at someone they would die.


edit: this guide really loves the phrase "In short,"

Skyrim guide was out of stock everywhere I checked last week in London. ebay prices are disgusting.

Can we not all agree Bungie being done with Halo before Reach came out is the reason why Reach is less appreciated.
Rewritting history, I can't see such negative opinions freely flowing if Bungie had sustained Reach the way the did 3.
 

daedalius

Member
I read most of it, well probably more like skimmed. I still got most of the information, but its all stuff that has been said before in here, just not in one big list.

I don't need the game to play just like CE or 2, but I certainly dislike some of Bungie's design decisions on Reach.
 

Tawpgun

Member
The accumulated filth of all the Armor Abilities and Bloom will gather up about their sluggish moving bodies, and all the Halo fans and MLG players will look up and shout 'Save us!' And Frankie will look down, and whisper....

"k"

And show us Halo 4.

Beli343
 

kylej

Banned
The accumulated filth of all the Armor Abilities and Bloom will gather up about their sluggish moving bodies, and all the Halo fans and MLG players will look up and shout 'Save us!' And Frankie will look down, and whisper....

"get waped"

And delay Halo 4.

fixed
 
"The first game of [game] franchise is better. Give me more of that instead of [Sequel number]. What was [developer] thinking?"
It's the best balanced game in the series. Everyone started with the best weapon but there were still rockets and power ups to promote map movement.
 
The only people that seem to have a problem with Reach's gameplay are the ones that would rather every single Halo game play like Halo 1 or 2. And since Halo 4 seems to be trending towards being a Halo 2 clone with the TU settings 343 feels that Reach "needed", I guess they'll get their wish.

I really want to see someone explain to me what they don't like about Reach without going 'well, it doesn't feel like PREVIOUS_HALO_GAME'. I'll tell you what I don't like about Reach without referencing the other games:
uh, no. There's a lot of things I wish were different in Reach, but I don't think I'd ever say I want the game to be just like Halo 1 or 2. I appreciate that Bungie wanted something that set Reach apart from the other Halo games. They took a lot of bold moves, but in my opinion about half of them (maybe) worked out.
My gripes:
-Armor Abilities are a great concept, but the generic loadouts were poorly executed by not having them segregated at a playlist level. Everyone has issues with Evade outside of Living Dead, it's beyond fucked up that it's still included in Spartan gametypes.

-Reach gave us some fantastic new weapons, but most of them got wrongly nerfed after the beta (does anyone even use the Face Melter?). The Plasma Launcher is largely useless on vehicles now, which I guess doesn't even matter considering you can take out most vehicles with a rifle. :-/ Plasma Repeater seemed really redundant to begin with, but lowering it's effectiveness from the beta makes it another weapon I'll never pick up.

-Vehicles across the board were changed to the point of being ridiculous. Warthogs being knocked around by rifle fire (the same vehicles that can supposedly survive a collision into a planet), the most powerful Banshee in any Halo game to date that ruins any map that it's on, the absurdly broken Revenant, etc. This all seemed to be changed just for the sake of change, which is NEVER a good idea.

11) The fact that 343 lied about elements of the update. Claiming they had done something to counter the bloomless DMR's Rate of Fire (nope), claiming vanilla Reach would stay vanilla Reach, then pushing the unpopular TU playlist's settings into existing playlists, and playlists where it doesn't even make sense why (Multi Team? really?)
I don't know how you came to the conclusion that the TU settings were unpopular. Maybe for you and a small circle of regulars you play with, but that's really just a false statement to make. In fact, 343 announced a while back that if the TU settings were popular enough based on their data, they would be incorporated into other facets of matchmaking, so yeah...
 

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
<3 long posts

The discourse on HaloGAF can be quite as high as any other Halo community. Whether you participate in the discussion or not, don't be criticizing people for using a message board like a message board.

Otherwise stick to twitter "communities" or something.
 

FyreWulff

Member
I don't know how you came to the conclusion that the TU settings were unpopular. Maybe for you and a small circle of regulars you play with, but that's really just a false statement to make. In fact, 343 announced a while back that if the TU settings were popular enough based on their data, they would be incorporated into other facets of matchmaking, so yeah...

Everybody's been able to see the TU playlist's population the entire time it's been up. It didn't have many people in it and the playlists who's settings have now been superceded with it's settings outpopulated it by a significant margin, except for Team Objective, but Team Objective is like the Carson Daly of Halo, he has a show but nobody cares to watch.
 

Slightly Live

Dirty tag dodger
Everybody's been able to see the TU playlist's population the entire time it's been up. The playlists who's settings have now been superceded with it's settings outpopulated it by a significant margin, except for Team Objective, but Team Objective is like Carson Daly, he has a show but nobody cares to watch.

Do you still believe adding DMR starts increased that populations's rate of decline rcently?
 

FyreWulff

Member
Do you still believe adding DMR starts increased that populations's rate of decline rcently?

Yes. Because adding global DMR starts is perceived as a hardcore gametype and will always make a playlist lose population. It did it in 3 when BR starts were added globally to a playlist and it still occurs in Reach. Halo 3's Social Skirmish took a noticable drop when it became a social Team Throwback.

Add in gametypes like Flag Slayer that everyone votes for constantly and Team Actionsack becomes a more reliable playlist for getting Objective gametypes than Team Objective. If you're talking about the TU playlist, I assume it was heavily DMR start in the first place to feature the changes to the DMR.


The Plasma Launcher is the best new weapon in the series since the Battle Rifle. It's largely used in Hemorrhage and against Falcons in whichever map it appears in.

RIP Beta Plasma Launcher
 

Striker

Member
-Reach gave us some fantastic new weapons, but most of them got wrongly nerfed after the beta (does anyone even use the Face Melter?). The Plasma Launcher is largely useless on vehicles now, which I guess doesn't even matter considering you can take out most vehicles with a rifle. :-/ Plasma Repeater seemed really redundant to begin with, but lowering it's effectiveness from the beta makes it another weapon I'll never pick up.
The Plasma Launcher is the best new weapon in the series since the Battle Rifle. It's largely used in Hemorrhage and against Falcons in whichever map it appears in.
 

monome

Member
Is anybody fluent enough and both Halo's lore and gameplay to promote a few weapons and maps additions that would set our burning hearts at peace?

Can I bypass the spoiler tags to promote a few things I envisionned from my readings?
 
Yes. Because adding global DMR starts is perceived as a hardcore gametype and will always make a playlist lose population. It did it in 3 when BR starts were added globally to a playlist and it still occurs in Reach. Halo 3's Social Skirmish took a noticable drop when it became a social Team Throwback.

Add in gametypes like Flag Slayer that everyone votes for constantly and Team Actionsack becomes a more reliable playlist for getting Objective gametypes than Team Objective.

Aren't Objective gametypes considered 'Hardcore' from the start, regardless of the weapons on the map?

Edit: With all the slack Reach's DLC has given people, it still trumps quite a few other games in terms of how it's handled as Slightly Live and I just discovered :p
 

vhfive

Member
<3 long posts

The discourse on HaloGAF can be quite as high as any other Halo community. Whether you participate in the discussion or not, don't be criticizing people for using a message board like a message board.

Otherwise stick to twitter "communities" or something.

didntreadlol.gif
 

monome

Member
Aren't Objective gametypes considered 'Hardcore' from the start, regardless of the weapons on the map?

Even bad players want to spice up their game sometimes and get away from BIG Team and such, so a moderate weapon set easily calms down average players like me.
 

Tawpgun

Member
Yes. Because adding global DMR starts is perceived as a hardcore gametype and will always make a playlist lose population. It did it in 3 when BR starts were added globally to a playlist and it still occurs in Reach. Halo 3's Social Skirmish took a noticable drop when it became a social Team Throwback.

Add in gametypes like Flag Slayer that everyone votes for constantly and Team Actionsack becomes a more reliable playlist for getting Objective gametypes than Team Objective. If you're talking about the TU playlist, I assume it was heavily DMR start in the first place to feature the changes to the DMR.




RIP Beta Plasma Launcher

dat playerbase.

I am disappoint.

filthy AR starts.
 

FyreWulff

Member
Aren't Objective gametypes considered 'Hardcore' from the start, regardless of the weapons on the map?

In the Halo playerbase, yes. Which means Objective kind of starts out with a smaller possible field in the first place.

It was explained to us in the CC that even optional objectives in a playlist will drop the population. Something like the average was once a player was voted into objective gametypes that he didn't want to play 2 times, they leave the playlist and don't come back.

Adding 100% DMR/BR start is basically "yo dawg, we put hardcore in yo hardcore so you can hardcore while you hardcore"ing a playlist.
 

daedalius

Member
Non-precision starts are garbage.

Although I think BR starts were a bit less obnoxious than DMR starts, especially in 3, since the BR is pretty ineffective at range for doing any real damage (of course, the meh-ness of the H3 BR is a different discussion). This still doesn't mean I'd rather start with a shitty AR.
 

Tawpgun

Member
So would allowing people to pick if they want DMR/AR starts in certain playlists BEFORE they go into them help?

Sure, you have a lower pool of players to choose from, but it would be optional. And the skill thing might fix itself, as the higher skilled tend to prefer DMR's anyway.

Hire me.
 

daedalius

Member
In before the Grenade Launcher Defense Force shows up with funny gifs of disagreement.

Thankfully this means Striker will never take the grenade launcher from me.

I think its a great weapon ;) You can 1 shot people with the secondary fire if you can time it correctly. Its kind of shit with its primary fire though, I pretty much never use it. Being able to control when the projectile explodes is pretty awesome.
 
Everybody's been able to see the TU playlist's population the entire time it's been up. It didn't have many people in it and the playlists who's settings have now been superceded with it's settings outpopulated it by a significant margin, except for Team Objective, but Team Objective is like the Carson Daly of Halo, he has a show but nobody cares to watch.
How does one even see the playlist numbers now? All I found on Waypoint is the listings of the playlists, no numbers. Regardless, it seems like you're suggesting that because 343 spent the time and effort on the TU, that they were going to implement it despite any data they had to back up those claims.

The Plasma Launcher is the best new weapon in the series since the Battle Rifle. It's largely used in Hemorrhage and against Falcons in whichever map it appears in.
I do my best to stay well clear of Hemorrhage and don't really enjoy Invasion with it's utter lack of quality maps, so I rarely ever see the Warthog of the Sky (except not, since you can't ride with objectives).

So would allowing people to pick if they want DMR/AR starts in certain playlists BEFORE they go into them help?

Sure, you have a lower pool of players to choose from, but it would be optional. And the skill thing might fix itself, as the higher skilled tend to prefer DMR's anyway.

Hire me.
Pistol starts, AR secondary for most playlists. DMR is far too accurate at range for it to be a regular starting option IMO.
 

FyreWulff

Member
How does one even see the playlist numbers now? All I found on Waypoint is the listings of the playlists, no numbers. Regardless, it seems like you're suggesting that because 343 spent the time and effort on the TU, that they were going to implement it despite any data they had to back up those claims.

I check the playlist populations from inside Reach. Considering the complaints over bleedthrough breaking the feedback system have been ignored and they're insinuating by pushing 85% with bleedthrough into vanilla lists that the gametype is no longer beta, actually, yeah. I am suggesting that. They might as well implement it system wide anyway now to reduce the utter confusion over which pistol you have at any time, at least it'd be brokenly consistent across all of Reach multiplayer. They already went back on their word anyway (bleedthrough for classic modes, vanilla Reach staying vanilla), might as well go the rest of the way.
 

daedalius

Member
I wouldn't say headshot bleedthrough BREAKS the feedback system, but you need to be aware if you take incidental damage from a grenade or something else, you are at risk of taking a headshot before your shield breaks.
 
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