Support NeoGAF

[dilatedmuscle]

Are people really making conclusions with regards to the physics of Halo Reach with a still screenshot?

I can say the same about the final version of Halo 3.

Look! Fail Bungle! Stiff body!

Exactly the point i brought up a few pages behind. They need a new physics engine.

 

[Warm Machine]

OK guys, im gonna post something i posted on another forum. Its a bit harsh but it was due to the nature of the thread (new screens critisism thread) where i wrote it. Its a lot so i didnt want to rewrite it. hope its not annoying. This is my screen name on another forum (bungie.net) so this is me.



Can someone who knows more then me about the technical side of things prove me wrong so that i can be a bit more optimistic about the final version? I did think the H3 was improved from the Beta to the Final version (character model detail, first person weapons lighting and other lighting glitches) .

The framerate of a game such as this is ALWAYS bad up until beta. Darksiders and Far Cry 2 for instance had a horrid framerate when I played it in Leipzig. Every game I've ever worked on had framerate problems all the way until the end. The reason is, you can't optimize properly until you know all the stuff you need to optimize and you only know that after Alpha which is meant to be "feature complete"

Most games at Bungie's stage of development here look FAR worse, which leads me to believe it is all in development and the material they are showing is the most stable most complete looking, which doesn't mean it is complete in the least.

 

[Future PhaZe]

Agree. As I've said before, I am hoping we get a remake pack or a nice handful of remakes for launch. And I'm talking about Heretic type remakes, not Blackout or Avalanche. The medium and large sized Halo 2 maps were the biggest enjoyment for me, as well as the c competitive and challenging Rank System.

Personally, I don't care for Firefight and wouldn't shed a tear if it were not included into Reach. Tons of maps, custom game browser, and a map editor is all I'm asking for (not a simplistic modifier like Forge).

I think Firefight is fun but it's not something I want to go back to over and over. Give me achievements for doing something hard on each map that goes towards an armor unlock or something and that will add to the value of that mode for me. Go ahead and copy and paste assets from the campaign to make it cheaper.

As for remakes I'm a huge fan of Middy, Creek, Lockout, and original maps but if Halo Reach works effortlessly with those maps then I question whether or not I'll be playing it for that long. Being able to thrust the new gameplay mechanics into old maps means that Bungie didn't give me the update I'm looking for.

 

[WJD]

Character models look great as already stated.

Really disappointed in environment textures though, unless they're placeholders - which they could well be.

 

[DiabolicalBagel]

Are people really making conclusions with regards to the physics of Halo Reach with a still screenshot?

Well, Merg, some people... are morons. Just let them keep all their stupidity to themselves.

 

[Merguson]

Exactly the point i brought up a few pages behind. They need a new physics engine.

Oh boy.

It's a STILL screenshot. A second later. The arms will be down. A few seconds before. The spartan was standing.

Do you get it?

 

[dilatedmuscle]

Bungie has a history of releasing early, unpolished screenshots (like this or this)that don't do the final game justice. That's the trade off for getting this stuff a year before release.

I'm sure we'll look back to this stuff the same way we look back to the early Halo 2 SP pics.

I agree with mos of your post (the deleted parts) but the links you posted are pretty much what Halo 2 looked like... Unflattering shots, yes, but sights like that are not hard to come by in Halo 2

This is one of the pictures that bugs me... look at the ledge of the cliff... its comical that stuff like this gets passed on a game at the calibur of Halo

 

[Flipyap]

Do you really think my posts reek of troll? I think I'm presenting my case in a fair and reasonable manner.

No, I don't. You do make a lot of sense, but I don't know what you want to hear at this point. Making comments about damage control probably won't help.
Most people will agree that graphics in Halo 3 are messed up. Hell, Halo fans complain about every single thing in the games they love, it's not like there's a defense force riot when someone explains why they can live with its graphical shortcomings (that "something about saved films, and 'the lighting'")

 

[BattleMonkey]

It has nothing to do with physics engine, the main problem was the animations sucked and made lot of things stiff in past Halo. In reach they are supposedly fixing that up so in motion it hopefully will be looking pretty swanky.

 

[Warm Machine]

Character models look great as already stated.

Really disappointed in environment textures though, unless they're placeholders - which they could well be.

The textures are actually pretty nice. I doubt if there has been a complete prop or decal pass done on the environment yet and I'm not sure if they have done a complete level lighting pass. I'm expecting a full dynamic environment lighting solution based on their tech they talked about a few months ago and much of this looks precalculated instead. It is probably due to them needing to do a dog and pony show to get media out, so they fell back to the Halo 3 lighting tech they have, but I think you can see the character assets are using a version of the new tech.

 

[feel]

I'm hoping for no firefight in the beta. It's campaign gameplay, and I don't want to be allowed to play that until I have access to the full campaign, to experience the story and that gameplay fresh at the same time.

 

[Defenstrate]

I'm hoping that my Super Space Marine can move faster than a shuffling geriatric this time around.

 

[dilatedmuscle]

Oh boy.

It's a STILL screenshot. A second later. The arms will be down. A few seconds before. The spartan was standing.

Do you get it?

Yes but how will his arms go down? they will move down stiffly with no movement based on the shoulder joint. The halo physics have always been stiff even up to H3. Its not wrong to want GTA or GoW2 type of physics on our favorite franchise of all time.

 

[bobs...onGaf]

Yea, the very last Friends and Family that came out after the beta had SP, if I recall correctly.

I hope Bungie does an event like the IMAX one they did for Halo 3 again.

Is that the UK imax event your talking about? - That was awesome but seemed really limited, was lucky to get tickets, I really hope theres something similar for Reach.

I think the Halo dead body physics for spartans are really well done, perhaps a little stiff but you kind of expect that with those kind of suits.

 

[squidhands]

Its like they really stopped caring for it.

I'm sure this is exactly the case. Bungie has never taken pride in their work, and only care about the money they receive from suckers like us. :lol

 

[dilatedmuscle]

It has nothing to do with physics engine, the main problem was the animations sucked and made lot of things stiff in past Halo. In reach they are supposedly fixing that up so in motion it hopefully will be looking pretty swanky.

It does have a lot to do with the physics engine. But the animations are going to be awesome along with mocap they are incorporating better walking- running animations and how his leg placement should be on certain slopes.

 

[op_ivy]

i sure hope the lighting/shadows from the cutscene are in game as well, would make a huge difference in these screens.

also, i'd imagine most of the "decorators" are absent from this batch of screens and would definitely make the environments look LOADS better.

imagine fields of grasses in the game informer pictures

 

[Merguson]

Yes but how will his arms go down? they will move down stiffly with no movement based on the shoulder joint. The halo physics have always been stiff even up to H3. Its not wrong to want GTA or GoW2 type of physics on our favorite franchise of all time.

My point is that:

you will notice that the physics engine hasnt even been implemented yet

You can't assume this based on a STILL screenshot.


ALSO:

I have no idea what you are talking about here.

"Well the game has to go gold before 8 months so that gives it more like 7 months at the most..."

Halo 3 went GOLD on August 29th 2007. The game officially released September 25th 2007. LESS THAN A MONTH.

 

[Future PhaZe]

I feel as if Reach is fixing every problem I had with H3 graphically. Adding AA, improving animations, and drastically improving certain character models goes a long way. Add that to doubling the enemy count and upgrading weapon models and there really is nothing to complain about anymore.

I'm focused purely on the mechanics at this stage. Can't wait until the beta.

 

[dilatedmuscle]

My point is that:



You can't assume this based on a STILL screenshot.

Notice that first quote i said HALO 3... I was corrected a while back that the physics may not even be implemented.

My point is that:

I hope Halo2 body physics and Halo CE flying animations dont return in reach as they have in all the rest.

i sure hope the lighting/shadows from the cutscene are in game as well, would make a huge difference in these screens.

also, i'd imagine most of the "decorators" are absent from this batch of screens and would definitely make the environments look LOADS better.

imagine fields of grasses in the game informer pictures

Thats what i want to see... but its not what im seeing, i hope the final game looks this juicy

... Speaking of Halo.. Game Informer is lagging on the update, usually the updates were posted over 2 hrs from the current time.

 

[BattleMonkey]

I feel as if Reach is fixing every problem I had with H3 graphically. Adding AA, improving animations, and drastically improving certain character models goes a long way. Add that to doubling the enemy count and upgrading weapon models and there really is nothing to complain about anymore.

I'm focused purely on the mechanics at this stage. Can't wait until the beta.

Has AA been really confirmed? The article in GI made no mention of AA as one of the improvements and pics from H3 would have us believe that game had AA as well.

 

[Frenck]

I agree with mos of your post (the deleted parts) but the links you posted are pretty much what Halo 2 looked like... Unflattering shots, yes, but sights like that are not hard to come by in Halo 2

This is one of the pictures that bugs me... look at the ledge of the cliff... its comical that stuff like this gets passed on a game at the calibur of Halo

Yeah I noticed the cliff too and it ruins what would otherwise have been my favourite pic of the bunch. I know it's not an excuse but you will only very rarely see the cliff from that angle when you're playing the game. You either have to jump off the cliff or watch a film of the level in free roaming camera mode which always reveals things that should not be seen by the player.

 

[Future PhaZe]

Has AA been really confirmed? The article in GI made no mention of AA as one of the improvements and pics from H3 would have us believe that game had AA as well.

uh oh

 

[Blueblur1]

There were Bnet members amongst the new batch of juniors??

smh...

But we've had really awesome Bnet members join us in the past. Just look at Za-er, nevermind.

 

[cabottemp]

has this been posted yet?

leaked video of beta loading

http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/27680

 

[The Librarian]

Yes, looks like I'm going to have to make a trip to WHSmiths after all.

Good-lookin' cover. So I guess we'll finally be getting information tomorrow? Good.

Nice to see Bungie/the Media pimpin' the new AR.

 

[Striker]

Thats what i want to see... but its not what im seeing, i hope the final game looks this juicy

... Speaking of Halo.. Game Informer is lagging on the update, usually the updates were posted over 2 hrs from the current time.

That's from the opening cinematic according to Bungie. Either we're being misled or you should just wait and see. Hard to grasp, I'm sure.

 

[DiabolicalBagel]

But we've had really awesome Bnet members join us in the past. Just look at Za-er, nevermind.

Dude... you can't say stuff like that on here.

Spoiler

He knows where you live.

 

[Nutter]

Ah Juniors. They never cease to amaze me.

The stiff suit after death is in the very first chapter of Halo 3. Go replay it again. [The suit freezes]
Now as for the graphics of the game. Do you graphic whores really want something like killzone? then perhaps you should go play your graphics? I need a game that looks better than Halo 3 and have the same addicting MP componant. As so far the looks seem like an improvement over Halo 3. There are things that still look like Halo 3 to me in the screens. However some of the things clearly look better. I will wait till the beta to see the real changes and I suggest you do the same. However until then stop the stupid graphical debate.

 

[Metroidvania]

...While I'm certainly hoping for better graphics in Reach, I just don't understand how some of you can apparently, from your comments, at least, base a large part of your enjoyment of the game on textures of all things.

Granted, Halo 1 DID look good for its time, and while some would argue that the sequels haven't been as advanced for their respective release dates, I don't see why this would greatly hamper your enjoyment. From what I've seen, Bungie has taken steps to address these issues, but that's besides the point.

I guess I just can't see why in a first person shooter, where you are moving fairly constantly and often engaged with multiple enemies, you're going to be thinking to yourself, "Man, this isn't enjoyable at all because of those flat textures on the cliffside," or "I'd much better enjoy shooting these elites if the grass surrounding them wasn't flat".

If it was an exploration/Sandbox game, I'd be more concerned, since the whole point of most sandbox games is exploring the world that's been created, but that's not what Reach is.

Does Reach have the potential to be disappointing from a graphics standpoint if it looks like some of the screenshots posted?

Sure, I'll admit that, who doesn't like seeing a very aesthetically pleasing set/background while they kill covenant.

Is it going to bother you enough while playing Reach to the point that you're not enjoying the game?

If yes, I guess I don't know what to say.

edit: DAMNIT NUTTER.

 

[Nutter]

...While I'm certainly hoping for better graphics in Reach, I just don't understand how some of you can apparently, from your comments, at least, base a large part of your enjoyment of the game on textures of all things.

Granted, Halo 1 DID look good for its time, and while some would argue that the sequels haven't been as advanced for their respective release dates, I don't see why this would greatly hamper your enjoyment. From what I've seen, Bungie has taken steps to address these issues, but that's besides the point.

I guess I just can't see why in a first person shooter, where you are moving fairly constantly and often engaged with multiple enemies, you're going to be thinking to yourself, "Man, this isn't enjoyable at all because of those flat textures on the cliffside," or "I'd much better enjoy shooting these elites if the grass surrounding them wasn't flat".

If it was an exploration/Sandbox game, I'd be more concerned, since the whole point of most sandbox games is exploring the world that's been created, but that's not what Reach is.

Does Reach have the potential to be disappointing from a graphics standpoint if it looks like some of the screenshots posted?

Sure, I'll admit that, who doesn't like seeing a very aesthetically pleasing set/background while they kill covenant.

Is it going to bother you enough while playing Reach to the point that you're not enjoying the game?

If yes, I guess I don't know what to say.

They should go play Killzone 2.

 

[Dash Kappei]

 

[NullPointer]

I will wait till the beta to see the real changes and I suggest you do the same. However until then stop the stupid graphical debate.

I'll do the same, but really, you can't complain about people discussing graphics after screenshots get officially released.

What else would you expect to happen? Screenshots showcase the graphics and some game elements - that's the whole point.

I see the disconnect here between people comparing the shots to Halo 3/ODST and people comparing the shots to other AAA shooters on the market. BOTH are fair comparisons, even if it doesn't paint Reach in the best light.

Personally, I was impressed by the cinematic, but not these shots. We won't know anything for sure until we can see this game in motion, so bring on the beta!

 

[kylej]

I guess I just can't see why in a first person shooter, where you are moving fairly constantly and often engaged with multiple enemies, you're going to be thinking to yourself, "Man, this isn't enjoyable at all because of those flat textures on the cliffside," or "I'd much better enjoy shooting these elites if the grass surrounding them wasn't flat".

Helps immerse you while you're playing. Uncharted 2 would be good if it weren't drop dead gorgeous. That game is cinematically taken to another level through its realistic environments.

 

[rar]

wow i can post

 

[big ander]

Work resumed on my ODST article. I know you guys have either forgotten or will roll your eyes, but I was reminded today of things I loved about ODST that haven't received much (any?) attention, as far as I know, so I'm back at it.

Just passed 4K words.

To be honest, I've been anticipating it. Do you know when it will be done?

I'm hoping that my Super Space Marine can move faster than a shuffling geriatric this time around.

I have never understood the complaints of spartans moving slow. It's all about the scale of the game. And I think they feel just fine.

Notice that first quote i said HALO 3... I was corrected a while back that the physics may not even be implemented.

My point is that:

I hope Halo2 body physics and Halo CE flying animations dont return in reach as they have in all the rest.

The body physics in Halo 3 are excellent. In other games (MW1, for example) the body falls to the ground. MW2 improved on those body physics, but even MW2's body physics aren't as good as Halo 3, where the bodies roll in a way that seems more realistic, and you can move the bodies and everything.
Also, while that may have been your point, it seemed like you were judging Reach's body physics without seeing them. That was the point Merg was getting at.

But we've had really awesome Bnet members join us in the past. Just look at Za-er, nevermind.

I like Zayne. He was just a little...emotional at times. And duardo is cool.

has this been posted yet?

Yeah, we all decided it was probably fake.

http://media.ebgames.com.au/images/screenshots/149459_screenshot_08_l.jpg[img]
[IMG]http://i45.tinypic.com/2e4j3nq.jpg[IMG]
:-P[/QUOTE]
:lol :lol awesome

[QUOTE=rar]wow i can post[/QUOTE]
Congrats, welcome, etc. Oonsk t-shirts are in the back, make sure not to play on the same team as Dani if you want to win. [spoiler];)[/spoiler]

 

[DeadGzuz]

Ah Juniors. They never cease to amaze me.

The stiff suit after death is in the very first chapter of Halo 3. Go replay it again. [The suit freezes]
Now as for the graphics of the game. Do you graphic whores really want something like killzone? then perhaps you should go play your graphics? I need a game that looks better than Halo 3 and have the same addicting MP componant. As so far the looks seem like an improvement over Halo 3. There are things that still look like Halo 3 to me in the screens. However some of the things clearly look better. I will wait till the beta to see the real changes and I suggest you do the same. However until then stop the stupid graphical debate.

You want to shut down a discussion in a thread made for Reach discussions? What do you want to discuss if not the latest info to be released in the

Halo Reach Speculation and Reveal Thread

?

 

[BattleMonkey]

They should go play Killzone 2.

You mean Crysis.

They should also have the right to talk about the graphics of a game in the games "official" thread.

 

[The Librarian]

The only thing physics-wise I have to say about Halo 3/ODST is the weird way bodies fall through the air after you die: that "fly-falling" animation. But I don't know if Bungie should change that because that's become one of the little staples of the franchise.:lol

 

[clashfan]

Helps immerse you while you're playing. Uncharted 2 would be good if it weren't drop dead gorgeous. That game is cinematically taken to another level through its realistic environments.

Lets not bring up uncharted, we know its the current bible of video games.

 

[gibonez]

I can't help but wonder if Bungie dropped the split screen mode from the multiplayer and the sp would it be possible for much better graphics ? Is that the reason Halo 3 did not look all that impressive ?

 

[Nutter]

Helps immerse you while you're playing. Uncharted 2 would be good if it weren't drop dead gorgeous. That game is cinematically taken to another level through its realistic environments.

I agree. I would love for Reach to be that good looking. So now it comes down to 2 things. Either A, the 360 just isnt powerfull enough or B, Bungie cant program graphics worth shit. So now with that said, even Modern Warfare 2 imo looks better than these screenshots and that game is using a modified Quake 2 Engine.. See I can be harsh on Halo too. Halo 3 isnt that great looking and Reach "looks" almost like Halo 3, however guess what I do enjoy playing Halo much more than COD.

Spoiler

that was mainly for people who come in here and say we just damage control on bungies part about graphics and do not listen to their concerns

And yes it is fair play when we compare it to the current market shooters. So once again pick an answer from above and move on. Sure it will be dissapointing that the graphics are still not "great" but if they are good enough while the gameplay being offered is that much better than other shooters. Ill take gameplay over graphics any day; thank you very much.

I just wanted to add, that yes I want a good graphical show case Bungie. So take out some features if you have to in order to give me something new. either 60fps or better graphics. And yes this is the reveal thread, Just troll Reach when you see the beta, if the beta is underwhelming in graphics.. then by all means troll as much as you like.

 

[kylej]

Lets not bring up uncharted, we know its the current bible of video games.

I'll take Uncharted 1 environments in Reach. Shit, I'll take Tomb Raider Anniversary environments.

 

[dilatedmuscle]

They should go play Killzone 2.

Im sorry im a junior... But i would much rather play Halo then Killzone 2... And i would much rather play the Halo shown in the VGA's then play the Halo that we are being showed in these EBgames screens. Its all im trying to say and is that too much to ask?

I love the halo gameplay and feel.. but i want it to look like the VGA trailer because my hopes were set that high by bungie. Bungie already admitted that at the time they showed the VGA trailer the frames per second were in flux so even they dont know if the game will end up looking that good once they lock in the frames. It is a scene from the opening of the game but its not necessarily the graphics with locked Frames Per Second. maybe people should read between the lines more often.

on a side note.. I love how some members assume a person is immature or a child based on their time of acceptance to a forum. I am an artist and im sorry if i want to be capture visually by the greatest FPS franchise ever.

 

[Captain Blood]

But we've had really awesome Bnet members join us in the past. Just look at Za-er, nevermind.

Hey at least he keeps that junk to twatter.

Lets not bring up uncharted, we know its the current bible of video games.

Father Drake who art in half-tucks, hallowed be thy game.

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

We know that Bungie will add tons of decorators and other small atmospheric effects later on. The screens look fine for what they are. You can see how big the environments will be, what the tone and setting looks like and what we can expect from the lighting.

It looks comparable to Gears 2 in these pics, very much in the upper echelon of 360 games (Nowhere close to PS3 exclusives like Uncharted 2 or Killzone 2 of course).

The textures and the geometry will likely stay the same but we can expect a lot of vegetation and random objects to be littered throughout the levels once the game moves closer to completion.

The only thing that really disappoints me is the barren landscape but as I said there are only few decorators like bushes or tall grass in there and the scenes that have them look awesome.

Bungie has a history of releasing early, unpolished screenshots (like this or this)that don't do the final game justice. That's the trade off for getting this stuff a year before release.

I'm sure we'll look back to this stuff the same way we look back to the early Halo 2 SP pics.

I really hope they do. That is about the only main thing lacking from these pictures. It will go a long way to really show off the game and its art. As posted recently with the spike announcement I really hope to see fields of grass like that, rather than mostly flat ground. It also helps hide the sharp contrasting changes like from a cliff face to ground.

I do also hope to see some additional atmosphere effects, although nothing over the top like what is in so many shooters.

I cant wait to see more guns. So far the guns look really, really nice.

 

[Metroidvania]

I'll take Uncharted 1 environments in Reach. Shit, I'll take Tomb Raider Anniversary environments.

While I know that's an exaggeration, love it or hate it, Halo's always been more of a "sterile" FPS than Uncharted, which has been focused on Indiana Jones style Exotic locations.

While it would be kickass to see Lone Wolf stealthing through a dark themed jungle section that looks as good as Uncharted 2's, that's not what the focus has been on since the first game, and I can't really see Bungie changing it that much for their last foray (at least for a long while) through the series.

on a side note.. I love how some members assume a person is immature or a child based on their time of acceptance to a forum. I am an artist and im sorry if i want to be capture visually by the greatest FPS franchise ever.

Unfortunately, it's been reinforced through enough juniors that the stereotype has arisen. There's a reason you don't start off as a full-fledged member.

Fortunately, if you can prove yourself not to be said immature child, even though some of us don't agree on various things regarding Halo, most of us thankfully avoid some of the shit that goes down in other threads.

 

[big ander]

I didn't see this posted, so I thought I'd go ahead and put it here:
Mythic Part 2 is coming to Marketplace for 800MSP on February 2nd
Belittle and ridicule me if old.

 

[Why For?]

Only just picked up Game Informer yesterday and man, the scans aren't done justice online.

This game is going tolook amazing.

Also, would anyone else want the option to add silencing to their weapons using the dpad? I was thinking since we can stealth through this game, then surely our weapons should have the option to be silenced. It's not like the dpad really gets used for anything in Halo.

Can we add silencers please Bungie? I love playing Halo games stealthily.

 

[The Librarian]

I didn't see this posted, so I thought I'd go ahead and put it here:
Mythic Part 2 is coming to Marketplace for 800MSP on February 2nd
Belittle and ridicule me if old.

Not old. This is the first time I'm hearing about it, and I'm glad to see that the map pack finally available for those that don't want/haven't bought ODST. So, MS, how 'bout lowering the prices of the other map packs?