-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
Halo Reach Reveal Thread - Matchmaking/Multiplayer Details Revealed
- Thread starter Slightly Live
- Start date
Metroidvania
People called Romanes they go the house?
2 Minutes Turkish said:
We've been down this road before, and iirc, the consensus was that it depends on the level of play/amount of time you spend in the various playlists.
In other words, we all argued about it until it was overlapped by a new issue/rumor/info drop.
Revengeance
Member
Damn; I was never a huge fan of the laser, but I must have missed the part where it went and killed everyone's family.
Yeah I think so. The swing advantage to a team with the lazer is pretty noticeable on any vehicle centric map - standoff being the worst offender, avalanche and valhalla not far behind.2 Minutes Turkish said:
I don't find the infantry uses to be nearly as cheap as some others do, as you at least get the red beam warning and it's not as easy a kill as a distance vehicle kill. I know I pretty much avoid the vehicles entirely when the other team has the lazer, and it's pretty much the #1 question of "Do we have lazer?"
It's definitely the most powerful weapon in halo to date, in terms of gameplay effect.
Shake Appeal
Member
Still think it should be locked into firing once you press the trigger. Or the warm-up time should be longer by at least a second or two (this should be a given, if you're serious about it being an "anti-vehicle" weapon and not just a "free kills, come on down!" win button). Or the reticle/width of the beam should be decreased. Or some combination of the above.EazyB said:
They have 3 years of Halo 3 data to see that the laser breaks the sandbox. If they haven't acknowledged that at this point 3 weeks of people using at laser with one less shot isn't going to get it through to them.Blueblur1 said:
No chopper or chopper equivalent would be a bummer.LukeSmith said:
Good stuff all around. I'm reserving judgment on the laser until I see it in action... "basically unchanged" could mean it still fires a beam of red death across the map, but maybe there's slight changes that nerf it tremendously and they didn't want to go into that in this interview.
Probably didn't affect it at all. Different weapon Loadouts is the answer of 2 plus years of the fanbase bitching about preferring some starting weapon over another.2 Minutes Turkish said:
wtf he was in??? :lolManCannon said:
Shake Appeal
Member
You may take our friendship and our families, but you will never take our freedom to state that in this new, BR-less universe, the laser is the single most overpowered thing in the sandbox.ManCannon said:
riskVSreward
Member
Why even have it if that's the case? I wouldn't argue with another second charge, but 4 shots is plenty-a-nerf as far as I'm concerned.Shake Appeal said:
Captain Blood
Member
Oh shit. :lolManCannon said:
People DO like the laser as it is. Sage's Beard, Sage, and Hamrick for three. And me too, now that I think about it. The spartan laser already forces you to use it wisely. It has less ammunition than any other weapon in the game. It has a charge time and a significant cooldown. It doesn't hone or lock. It's a skill weapon that has tremendous power.Gui_PT said:
Specifically for the Standoff example, the Spartan Laser only controls the warthog. If you're getting destroyed by the other team's warthog, there are less effective ways of killing the warthog, but they can still kill it. Additionally, Standoff is small enough that infantry combat is viable. Spartan laser kills dudes too, but it'll use up it's valuable shots. Laser Control is central strategy for any map with a laser, but it is by no means the ONLY strategy.
And finally, a single shot and a three minute respawn is a recipe for hate. If you miss your only shot, your team will be riding your ass for being such a noob or a retard or douche or any manner of other insults. Even if you only have a few more shots, it's still enough to give yourself the hope of redemption by lasering the enemies in the warthog who are making a flag run.
Unrelated: wtf bungle thread has jumped off the Halo forums into Gaf. I posted a rebuttal of his points, but I thought it was funny that he obviously went through the effort of creating his extended graphic.
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
EazyB said:
What is this I don't even...
I seriously don't get killed that often from the sp'laser in 3, I don't see what the big deal is. Sure it could be nerfed a bit, but when 8 vehicles are rolling around and you are on foot, you need to have some way to kill them.
The Librarian
Banned
Hm. Well, that's certainly a slight improvement on it, but I'm still really apprehensive about it. Of course there could be a whole host of changes to the vehicles that makes it not as effective as it was in Halo 3....Shishka said:
Eh. I'm done talking about the laser until the beta is out. There's really nothing much more to say about it, and I can't really say anything definitive until I see it in action in the Beta. Plus, as I said before, I'll give Bungie benefit of the doubt.
riskVSreward
Member
Try playing without the damn Warthog for a few minutes. Shit, how many people here are fine with Warthog's being so beastly yet get so butt hurt about one of the only viable options for stopping one?Gui_PT said:
And how is the laser such a noob weapon? A noob isn't going to be any better with the laser than they are with a sniper. I'd say the missile pod is the ultimate noob weapon in terms of anti-vehicle, and even that isn't much of a problem for a skilled player.
bobs...onGaf
Member
ManCannon said:
Its a sad loss, but that just means someone else can take his place right :lol
Personally as much as I DO think the laser kills vehicle combat, if it wasnt in Vehicle combat would kill Halo :lol - Its the great equalizer when both teams have one, and something REALLY worth fighting over if only one exists. Controlling the laser isnt easy so you deserve the reward of its power while you have it in my opinion. If your team is good enough to control laser you could probably beat the opponent without it anyway.
riskVSreward said:
I barely use the hog. But I can see how the Laser usually prevents people from being able to use it.
And I never called any weapon a noob weapon. Ever.
Edit: Dax is right though. Usually, when Bungie changes something, it's for the best. And they seem to be making awesome changes for Reach.
Believe I will
The Librarian
Banned
Do you stand above Sage's beard?urk said:
Deadly Cyclone
Pride of Iowa State
user_nat said:
I guess. Seriously, if I see that targeting beam anywhere near me I start going haywire and usually cause a miss unless he happens to get me while I don't see it.
With the new vehicles (many unannounced remember) as well as more long range weapons, those with a sp'laser won't last long due to its long charge time.
Shake Appeal
Member
Is it, though?Kapura said:
Look, the laser debate has been lengthy and divisive in the past, and is second only to AR vs BR in terms of recycling the sandbox discussion around here. I guess I will play the beta and see how I feel about it, but I am worried the laser will continue to be something terrifying to behold in the hands of even a moderately skilled player. As it is, it changes the character of a game and restricts the options available to the people in it drastically once it is picked up, let alone fired.
That's it, that's all I will say until I have seen its Reach iteration in action.
I'm sorry, but I've never held back my opinions for the chance of getting maps, gifts, or getting invited to HQ and I'll never begin sucking up to continue getting these favors. Yes I'm a little fired up about this reveal and thus my comments are fueled some unnecessary vitriol but I still think the fact that it's gone untouched to be a horrendous oversight.ManCannon said:
AwesomeSyrup
Banned
I don't understand the laser hate. Without lock on rockets there aren't many very effective anti vehicle weapons in Halo 3. The missile pod is way too easy to dodge, rockets are useless unless close, and the power drain is pretty easy to avoid also unless it's thrown by somebody close to you. I see far more people dominating with Warthogs and Banshees than with the laser.
2 Minutes Turkish
Banned
Personally, I never had an issue with the Laser. I'm fucking useless with it anyway, so I try and take vehicles in other ways anyway.
I think simply adjusting the warm up so that once the trigger is pulled, thats it, you're locked in and you have only a few seconds to line up your shot.
Surely that's a happy medium without having to remove it all together?
I think simply adjusting the warm up so that once the trigger is pulled, thats it, you're locked in and you have only a few seconds to line up your shot.
Surely that's a happy medium without having to remove it all together?
I don't think the Laser is overpowered. I think it just doesn't fit in with maps such as Avalanche, Standoff, and Valhalla where there are wide open spaces and once someone has the laser primed, you can't do much. So I think if they are keeping the Laser as well as the inclusion of a new anti-infantry weapon (although that could be a replacement for the missile pod), the maps that are meant for big-team battle will be different in a way that vehicles can move around without any annoyances and that if you're not careful with the laser, you may end up using it on an obstacle that the vehicle drove behind.
AwesomeSyrup
Banned
Yeah the mongoose better not be out in Reach. I gotta be able to do drivebys with the sniper.wwm0nkey said:
Shake Appeal
Member
Somewhere in Bungie headquarters, a lowly intern is totting up the posts for and against the laser. Once the posts are balanced, he presses a button.
The button says: "Ship it."
The button says: "Ship it."
Revengeance
Member
OH GOD I WAS ABOUT TO BE ANGRYManCannon said:
riskVSreward
Member
No, other people said it was a noob weapon, so I mentioned that in a separate paragraph. IMO, the hog is very powerful on the large maps. How many times do you see someone with a running riot thanks to the hog? Having something that's capable of destroying one in a single shot isn't an issue to me. We're also assuming that the laser is controlled by the other team and is also in capable hands. Without a laser on the map, what's the risk to getting into the hog in the first place, missile pods? :lol Unless you're playing CTF, there isn't much worry about energy drains.Gui_PT said:
With no laser on the map, it would just degenerate into Banshee/hog showdowns and that would be pretty damn boring.
AllIsOneIsNone
Banned
Maybe they didn't nerf the laser but instead made all of the other weapons better to catch up...ever thought of that?
"unnecessary vitriol" fuels a pretty big swath of your posts, dude.EazyB said:
I'm decidedly miffed at the inclusion of the laser relatively unchanged, but there are also a host of other factors that may mitigate this, including: placement, frequency of appearance, damage dealt and (for infantry) the ability of various armor abilities to avoid it. I've always thought the anti-vehicle sandbox was robust enough without it. But I'm content to wait until the beta - rumor has it there is one - to really get worked up about it. (Or anything, really.)
On a different note:
The scale of gameplay changes from Halo 3 to Reach is at least as dramatic as the evolution from Halo 1 to Halo 3. While I'm not thrilled with everything, I'm just glad they're being so aggressive in expanding and refining the game.
In particular, there's a big emphasis on adding layers to everything (sometimes literally). The targeting bloom, depth of the radar, shield/health models, abilities (camo is a perfect example) all are much more nuanced than before. There's going to be a big separation between great and good players. Loving it.
The problem with the lazer vs. vehicles that we haven't seen in the other weapons, is that it's more effective the further away you are. The further the vehicle is away from you, the slower its movement appears and thus its easier to track. So at mid to long range, its like wielding the hand of god and I think that's my biggest issue with it. Since infantry can change direction or jump instantly, unlike a vehicle, I find their movement's more erratic, combined with their smaller footprint at range, I don't find lazer sniping infantry that much cheaper then a human sniper kill. Vs vehicles however, I have some issues.
Maybe if the lazer weakened the further away it blasts, so it's not a direct kill at long-range....
I duno but I hope something happens.
Maybe if the lazer weakened the further away it blasts, so it's not a direct kill at long-range....
I duno but I hope something happens.
Shake Appeal
Member
I think if it's in the beta trailer, it's in the beta.wwm0nkey said:
...with the possible exception of the Phantom, because hey, what's up with that? An invasion, you say?!