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Halo Reach Reveal Thread - Matchmaking/Multiplayer Details Revealed
- Thread starter Slightly Live
- Start date
Not a Jellyfish
but I am a sheep
Dirtbag said:
Touche. Well played dirtbag, well played indeed. :lol
Absolutely, that information about Guardian could definitely be useful.
If they wanted, they could probably sort games by rank, run some statistics to see if weapon usage differs, how that usage affects game outcomes, how heatmaps change based on skill level, etc. Balance can be a very mathematical thing when so much data flows forth. I would just love to get my hands on that stuff.
Dirtbag said:
After 2 years of pointing out obvious flaws it gets a little tiring. Laser will stay in the game no matter what logical arguments you bring to the table.
Honestly there's so much new stuff in Reach (which all sounds atrocious to me right now) that I'm going to wait til the beta to complain about anything. Maybe it will all fall into place when I'm in control.
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
The interview article is too long, and the thread is going too fast. Fuck, I am never going to catch up reading all this with all the work I have on my plate 
I miss the college days.
I miss the college days.And Bungie knows Cortana wasn't a good level, and Bungie removed the Spiker from Reach. Mistakes get made, and hopefully fixed the next time around.Dirtbag said:
There's more than one way to balance a weapon. One way is to change it. Another is to change how/when/where it's used. And another is to change the stuff around it that it interacts with. We'll see how the laser pans out soon enough. I suspect it won't be used in exactly the same ways as before.
Heatmaps showing weapon usage, frequency of vehicle kills, how often the laser dominates one team over the other, etc. There's plenty of data. I'm not happy the laser is back, but all the insinuations you keep making about Bungie from that simple fact are a bit over the top.EazyB said:
Broman1978
Junior Member
godhandiscen said:
Yeah, I feel the same =/
Come home from work, click this thread and BAM!! 13-15 new pages =P
Thagomizer
Member
GhaleonEB said:
Camo would only work for the person using it (could be useful for surprise gunners, though)
Lifting a mongoose, assuming the jetpack is physics-based, would probably just result in a fairly spectacular crash-frontflip.
Armor lock protecting vehicles wouldn't even make sense.
Of course, I would say with 90% certainty you can't use AA in vehicles anyway, so the whole thing is moot.
Thagomizer
Member
Trasher said:
Now that we have Hitscan, you won't even have to lead targets
N00b game confirmed.
Stormtrooper30
Member
This. Why the hell is no one commenting on this? A missile-pod that shoots homing plasma nades at you? For fuck's sake.Tashi0106 said:
I'm not sure what the backlash at EazyB is all about. The fact that the lazer is unchanged and back in Reach is biggest letdown I've heard so far. After all the complaining and ruined maps (Standoff, Sand Trap), why the hell is this weapon even in the game still? With all these brand new anti-vehicle weapons, why the hell do we need a lazer? Jesus Christ, Bungie does some stupid shit sometimes.
All the armor abilities sound rad except for the Armor Lock one. Seems to be really overpowered. Imagine playing The Pit and everyone has Armor Lock equipped... It would just be 8 people running around and engaging sheilds for 3 seconds as melees are attempted and people round corners. Do not want.
The new Covenant weapons all sound great. I can see the noob tube getting really frusstrating at time but the human small arms weapons all sound fun, too. Really want to use the new plasma rifle, sounds very unique. Gets more accurate as it heats up? Sounds like tactics could play a huge part in this weapon.
It seems to me that the ramifications of laser are so profound that you couldn't track even a good chunk of it with numbers. How do you put a number on when one team knows the other has thus they don't bother getting into their vehicles? It's stuff like that that I feel can only be felt first hand. Even in your BTB matches I'm sure the laser occasionally ruins matches but it can be felt most at high levels of play that Bungie may not have sufficient experience with to see what's so apparent to other that play BTB at this level.GhaleonEB said:
Like I said earlier, my initial response was filled with some unnecessary vitriol and was more poking fun at Bungie for this oversight than taking the time to give an in-depth response to the news (which I planned and followed through with later). After seeing the new covie anti-vehicle weapon, which seemed like a well-balanced weapon (though locking onto "bipeds" concerns me), I had no doubt in my mind that Bungie had seen the light and realized the mistake that is the Halo 3 laser. When I said "Bungie's praised themselves at how balanced their sandbox is" I may as well have replaced "Bungie" with "I." Disregarding Halo 3's laser they did a great job at creating a fun and blanced infantry/vehicle balance in 3 and they'd no doubt clean up that mistake come Reach. Come to find out the laser is just as powerful as before (don't know how the covie "equivalent" is even in the same league) and they've been perfectly happy with the laser as it exists in 3. Of course not all is known but there's mounting evidence that I'll hate Reach's laser as much as do 3's:GhaleonEB said:
- they've never expressed their dissatisfaction with it in 3
- they haven't edited 3's maps to get rid of it and rebalance the map accordingly
- they're bringing it back in Reach unchanged
No one can know for sure how it'll effect Reach until they have the final game sitting in their 360 but I'd be hard pressed to disregard my concerns.
Stormtrooper30 said:
I think we should be on a wait and see basis with the laser. We don't really know how the vehicles have changed, we don't know the maps or the weapon layout. We also don't know how things will change because of this beta.
edit: I think today I can safely say that I prefer MLG objective game types over MLG Slayer gametypes. My last game of the day today was MLG Pit CTF. We go up 1-0 and my teammate lags out. 3v4 now, we win 3-0. SHIT ON. Too much fun.
Yup, 2 years of attracting people that put up with AR starts and scaring away a lot of the Halo 2 crowd and anyone with the patients not to charge in spraying and praying for a beatdown will do that to a game's community. Poor flag respawns and replacing good shit (3 plots) with dumb shit (land grab) was just enough to bury objective matches in 3. The only objective these kids want is fucking Grifball and even then they'll ignore the actual objective and just run around enjoying the fact that even they can get a kill thanks to the hammer. If you're not into MLG Halo 3 is a pretty poor place for objective games.user_nat said:
But hey, if they can turn a community around like that maybe they can do the opposite and revitalize objective games in Reach. 3 plots seems to be returning, they seem to be focusing a lot on invasion which has some interesting looking objectives, and I'm afraid to make similar assumptions but I'll go ahead and say Bungie probably wasn't happy how objective playlists fared in 3 all of which is hope for something different.
You couldn't be wrong on so many levels, and I removed that stupid gif.Kapura said:
Curious to see those who disliked Halo 2's lock-on Rockets feel about this. I can see if the Plasma launcher locks-on Warthogs, Ghosts, Banshees, and so forth, but WTF infantry?Tashi0106 said:
Self Induced
Member
Ok, am I missing something? Do people actually read this fucking thread before they respond or do they just post their opinion without a fucking care who knows it?
read
the
thread
or I'm drunk, idk
read
the
thread
or I'm drunk, idk
OK fine.Kapura said:
People DO like the laser as it is. Sage's Beard, Sage, and Hamrick for three. And me too, now that I think about it. The spartan laser already forces you to use it wisely. It has less ammunition than any other weapon in the game. It has a charge time and a significant cooldown. It doesn't hone or lock. It's a skill weapon that has tremendous power.
There's also tons of players who dislike it. You can't waver and act like majority of them like it, and I also can't do the same. Fact is, for all of us I'm sure who's endured it in Team Objective, Team Slayer, Squad Battle, and Ranked BTB, it's been a nuisance. Valhalla is controlled by vehicles, and whoever owns the Laser owns the vehicular control, hence owns the entire map. Standoff is owned by the Laser, period. Sandtrap is also included, but isn't nearly as bad since there is two. Now if you're talkin' Heavies....
Specifically for the Standoff example, the Spartan Laser only controls the warthog. If you're getting destroyed by the other team's warthog, there are less effective ways of killing the warthog, but they can still kill it. Additionally, Standoff is small enough that infantry combat is viable. Spartan laser kills dudes too, but it'll use up it's valuable shots. Laser Control is central strategy for any map with a laser, but it is by no means the ONLY strategy.
The Spartan Laser can act like a pin-point laser dart from across the map. How is that even fun to play much less being called upon a "skilled" weapon? If the Laser couldn't destroy infantry across the map like a Sniper Rifle, it wouldn't be nearly a problem. Using up "valuable shots" is moot because you can still save those shots for the first Warthog, the second time it respawns, the third time, and then loose cannon the others for the next respawn the Laser returns. A good, strategic team does this every time. Rinse, repeat.
What's the bigger problems than the Laser? I'm intrigued.Spasm said:
Thagomizer
Member
So at what point does the Beta need to be submitted for certification?
Nothing, imo. I've had countless games where either me or a teammate, usually a friend I'm talking to, has gone on 20-30 kill streaks in the warthog turret. That's only because our team controlled laser. As fun as that is for me/my team, it really sucks when I get matched up against a team that's much better than my team and controls the laser. An easy solution, for a map similar to Standoff in Reach, would be to remove the game breaking laser and put in a plasma launcher at each base.Striker said:
Other team having the laser and hog shouldn't be an issue since there are many other ways to kill hogs, which is why the laser is apparently not needed.advent29 said:
Anyways, the biggest problem with Standoff is spawning without a BR. Of all the maps in the game, this one plays the worse when spawning with an AR against BRs.
Oh, and spawns.
Now to turn this into AR vs BR opposed to Laser vs No laser
Put simply, Spawns.Striker said:
The argument with the Laser usually focuses on Standoff. You hear a little complaining about Valhalla and Avalanche, and even less about Sand Trap, but the majority of it lands squarely on Standoff. If players on Standoff could spawn in relative safety, with reasonable access to even modest anti-vehicle measures, like they can on those other maps, we probably wouldn't even be having this debate.
That being said, I wouldn't mind if the Laser was removed from Standoff (for the same reason I think the Sniper breaks Standoff), but I don't think it would make as big of a difference as sane spawns would.
Demoncarnotaur
Member
Finally got a chance to catch up on todays news. I can say that I am super pumped after reading the interviews about the sandbox.
I am really surprised about loadouts and how they work. It is a refreshingly new direction for halo without completely rewriting it. I like the way they handle the AA's or "classes". I like how the weapon ties with the AA, and how it may change from gametype to gametype. I can say that I am honestly surprised about shotguns and grenade launcher being used as loadout weapons. That makes me kinda nervous and excited at the same time. Also, armor lock sounds really awesome. I wonder what would happen if you engaged it up in the air and landed on a vehicle? :lol
Another really cool thing is that almost all of the Covenant weapons are completely new or rehauled, yet still familiar enough. The Plasma Repeater looks really hot, and sounds pretty cool in the way the overheat function is used. The focus rifle is another sexy looking weapon, and sounds really neat in the way it works.
Overall all the assets look really, really nice. I love the art direction especially. The style of the Spartans, and the worn look on the armor really looks great. Honestly, there is a ton of information to take in and digest from this update. Ill cut this off here, but I barely touched all of the new info.
One last note: the mystery image.. My bet is an april fools joke, but a little more time will tell.
I am really surprised about loadouts and how they work. It is a refreshingly new direction for halo without completely rewriting it. I like the way they handle the AA's or "classes". I like how the weapon ties with the AA, and how it may change from gametype to gametype. I can say that I am honestly surprised about shotguns and grenade launcher being used as loadout weapons. That makes me kinda nervous and excited at the same time. Also, armor lock sounds really awesome. I wonder what would happen if you engaged it up in the air and landed on a vehicle? :lol
Another really cool thing is that almost all of the Covenant weapons are completely new or rehauled, yet still familiar enough. The Plasma Repeater looks really hot, and sounds pretty cool in the way the overheat function is used. The focus rifle is another sexy looking weapon, and sounds really neat in the way it works.
Overall all the assets look really, really nice. I love the art direction especially. The style of the Spartans, and the worn look on the armor really looks great. Honestly, there is a ton of information to take in and digest from this update. Ill cut this off here, but I barely touched all of the new info.
One last note: the mystery image.. My bet is an april fools joke, but a little more time will tell.
les papillons sexuels
Banned
Spasm said:
Agreed.
A good sniper can insta gib spawning players, throw in poor spawn locations in relatively unsafe and open locations, a vehicle patrolling with few useful anti-vehicle measures, and a multitude of other powerful weapons like rocket launchers, shotgun, laser, in a map that heavily favors either long range (top of base to opposing base), or close quarters combat (direct route from base to base or inside base, bubble) and you're going to get balancing issues.
http://www.bungie.net/stats/Halo3/HeatMap.ashx?map=410&wep=255&inf=3
Notice that the majority of deaths on the map occur in almost a straight line from one bast to the the other.
Not a Jellyfish
but I am a sheep
Demoncarnotaur said:
I really hope not.
Just not cool to tease an April fools joke.
You're right, they are. But as far as BTB is concerned, Standoff is small and wide open. When you spawn out in the open on Avalanche or Sandtrap, you're not instantly barraged from 3 different directions. You can get to cover and weapon drops pretty easily. A team of 8 can lock down a small, open map a lot easier.Striker said:
I just don't think it's fair to blame Standoff vehicle rape on the laser. A team that's locked down the level is going to destroy your Warthog with or without the Laser. Or worse, steal it.
godhandiscen
There are millions of whiny 5-year olds on Earth, and I AM THEIR KING.
I read the whole interview. FUCKING NUTS! Bungie basically designed the dynamic class system I dreamed of. OH MY FUCKING GOD.. I can't wait for May 3rd.
Is this it? http://www.youtube.com/user/HaloWaypoint?feature=mhw5Not a Jellyfish said:I really hope not.
Just not cool to tease an April fools joke.
EazyB said:
MLG will save us.
Honestly, I'm hoping Invasion is objective based, I would LOVE to see something like what Killzone 2 did. That game sucked balls, but man was the idea of a game where the objective changes like 5 times during a match a great idea. You went from slayer to flag to assault, etc. I know Invasion probably isn't like this, but I can dream. A Rush type mode would be awesome as well.
Straight up slayer is just so archaic to me at this point...
Interesting... http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1117343&postcount=1823Ramirez said:
Don't forget this classic: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=1478591&postcount=2580Ramirez said:
And this one is for you Nutterbutter: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=2149614&postcount=2809