Whenever people who don't like Blackout play it, they're grading it based on how good of a remake it is. In that department it fails, but as a map itself, it's actually pretty good. I do however miss the epic matches that I used to have on Lockout back in the day. Everyone knew the set up and the standoffs used to be epic.
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Halo Reach Reveal Thread - Matchmaking/Multiplayer Details Revealed
- Thread starter Slightly Live
- Start date
The artists at Bungie had their way with it and went overboard. Filled every nook and cranny with random shit to jump on or have grenades bounce wildly off of.Kenak said:
Either way I don't have much nostalgia for lockout and actually prefer Guardian if radar is on. With radar, both blackout and lockout turn into camping the to of BR and snipe and spawning at the bottom is almost a guaranteed death. Without radar I really like how even blackout plays and would rather play slayer on it than on The Pit with radar (which turns into camping your side of the huge wall too often for my taste).
See I never did get those same encounters that I got from playing Lockout on Halo 2. My tactics were also completely different but I think that's just because of the changes they made into Halo 3 from Halo 2.enzo_gt: said:
The spawning was my biggest problem, that's what gave it a different feel for me.Shishka said:
bobs...onGaf
Member
Shishka said:
Wait the spawns were changed in Tu2 - I dont remember anything about this!??
I actually think that Heretic suffers from the aesthetic changes thing more, Midship was so much more streamlined, and if you compare the two, it seems to have less chunky architecture. I keep getting trapped on the map on Heretic which wasnt a problem with Midship which also seemed to have cleaner lines of sight?
dslgunstar
Banned
Hahaha, I didn't expect my comment about Halo 3 maps to start a huge discussion about map quality.
Pointless to talk about Halo CE maps since all the best ones have been remade and the rest wont even work with a properly balanced weapon set. (ie. no pistol)
Halo 2 had some great standout maps, and like someone already mentioned, the majority of the memorable ones were asymmetrical maps designed for objective games. Zanzibar is the obvious one, but Headlong and lots of the DLC maps like Relic and Terminal were utterly fantastic too.
The problem I have with a lot of the Halo 2 maps is that some of them werent quite big enough for proper objective based games, but they werent symmetrical enough for really fun, competitive, balanced slayer games. Lockout gets alot of love, but it is such a freaking cinch to just dominate that map once one team has a couple BRs and a sniper rifle. Ascension was downright broken for most of its existence. Midship was a great slayer map, by contrast. Ivory Tower wasnt bad either, despite being really really ugly.
The best maps in Halo 3 are also asymmetrical. Obviously Last Resort, which is an enhanced remake, but High Ground is a fucking blast for objective gametypes (not so much slayer, when the spawn points can get screwed with). Like Halo 3, lots of great asymmetrical maps came in the DLC too. What separates Halo 2 and Halo 3 for me, is that there really arent many maps on Halo 3 I absolutely cant stand, and I think thats because Bungie made the large, symmetrical maps a lot better this time. Granted, some of them are remakes, like Valhalla and Avalanche, but they are greatly IMPROVED remakes.
When I said Valhalla had more 'routes', I meant there are more options for crossing the map safely, without getting gunned down by snipers parked at their side of the map. Cover provided by differences in elevation through the middle and near the river, as well as the rocks on one side and the caves on the other.
My favorite maps:
Valhalla
Last Resort/Zanzibar
Headlong
Avalanche
High Ground
Containment
Midship
Rat's Nest
Standoff
Ghost Town
The Pit
Standoff
Ivory Tower
Relic
Terminal
Again, keep in mind that for me objective modes > slayer
Longshore
Pointless to talk about Halo CE maps since all the best ones have been remade and the rest wont even work with a properly balanced weapon set. (ie. no pistol)
Halo 2 had some great standout maps, and like someone already mentioned, the majority of the memorable ones were asymmetrical maps designed for objective games. Zanzibar is the obvious one, but Headlong and lots of the DLC maps like Relic and Terminal were utterly fantastic too.
The problem I have with a lot of the Halo 2 maps is that some of them werent quite big enough for proper objective based games, but they werent symmetrical enough for really fun, competitive, balanced slayer games. Lockout gets alot of love, but it is such a freaking cinch to just dominate that map once one team has a couple BRs and a sniper rifle. Ascension was downright broken for most of its existence. Midship was a great slayer map, by contrast. Ivory Tower wasnt bad either, despite being really really ugly.
The best maps in Halo 3 are also asymmetrical. Obviously Last Resort, which is an enhanced remake, but High Ground is a fucking blast for objective gametypes (not so much slayer, when the spawn points can get screwed with). Like Halo 3, lots of great asymmetrical maps came in the DLC too. What separates Halo 2 and Halo 3 for me, is that there really arent many maps on Halo 3 I absolutely cant stand, and I think thats because Bungie made the large, symmetrical maps a lot better this time. Granted, some of them are remakes, like Valhalla and Avalanche, but they are greatly IMPROVED remakes.
When I said Valhalla had more 'routes', I meant there are more options for crossing the map safely, without getting gunned down by snipers parked at their side of the map. Cover provided by differences in elevation through the middle and near the river, as well as the rocks on one side and the caves on the other.
My favorite maps:
Valhalla
Last Resort/Zanzibar
Headlong
Avalanche
High Ground
Containment
Midship
Rat's Nest
Standoff
Ghost Town
The Pit
Standoff
Ivory Tower
Relic
Terminal
Again, keep in mind that for me objective modes > slayer
Longshore
InvincibleAgent
Member
You can get 2-flag shotties there, I think in action sack.Shake Appeal said:
InvincibleAgent
Member
Am I the only one who thinks flag return time should depend on how far away from the base it is? :lol
That loadout was just an example... It might be only available in a match type people don't play much.Dirtbag said:
Where can I see these statistics?Shishka said:
Kenak said:
Because it's nothing like Lockout? Maybe...
Some of the jumps don't exist anymore, the lift is so slow, the shotgun area is an abortion compared to Lockout, the library window is closed, the geometry on the stairs results in frustrating grenades, etc. etc. etc.
After the newness of it wore off, it revealed it's true colors for me...
Rat's Nest...smh.
Rat's Nest over Terminal? :lol :lol :lol
As for Blackout, it's best played with a BR start and no radar. Otherwise, I find it unplayable due to a lot of camping at the BR-tower/Sniper tower. Due to that, players will often spawn at the vent and elbow which is easily falling into a death trap with our trusty AR.'
Turf had its moments, also, and was fan-fucking-tastic with 3 Plots. One Bomb and One Flag were also pretty good. Team Slayer Pro another goodie.
As for Blackout, it's best played with a BR start and no radar. Otherwise, I find it unplayable due to a lot of camping at the BR-tower/Sniper tower. Due to that, players will often spawn at the vent and elbow which is easily falling into a death trap with our trusty AR.'
Turf had its moments, also, and was fan-fucking-tastic with 3 Plots. One Bomb and One Flag were also pretty good. Team Slayer Pro another goodie.
Zeouterlimits
Member
<3'ing FUD, but who isn't?Dani said:
Unfortunately won't make customs this week, came home to 360'less land for Easter, so spent the day playing Heavy Rain.
On a more Halo-related note.. strongly considering/planning to go to PAX Seattle...
Perfect timing for Bungie to bring sexy Reach goods and they've always had a good presence there (certainly a big part of my motivation in going)
Devin said he's going, any of the rest of HaloGAF going?
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
Zeouterlimits said:
I will, most likely. I loved PAX' 08 and now that Reach and other MS goodies will be at PAX, I want to be there.
I know if I get plane tickets now I can get them super cheap so I need to decide within the next month.
Zeouterlimits
Member
Domino Theory said:I know if I get plane tickets now I can get them super cheap so I need to decide within the next month.
Same, ~610 ($825) are some of the cheapest I'm finding now.
The possibility has me nervously excited.
Anyone watched The Return (part one)? How'd it turn out?
Apologies Gui, if I could I definitely would.
Hydranockz, some friends and I had a little Reach geek out/discussion on Thursday and I've been really itching to play since.
dslgunstar
Banned
Striker said:
If this was in response to my list, there wasn't any order to it, just off the top of my head. I love the hell out of Terminal and every other map on that list, it would take me awhile to decide a definitive order.
Stormtrooper30
Member
Make my babies. Maps that should be in every Halo game:Thermite said:
Headlong
Ascension
Ivory Tower
Instant win. Would be fine with these three for the rest of my life.
Also, didn't see anyone talk about this:
This means that both 4 headshots and 4 body shots do the exact same thing. Do not want. Should be rewarded for accuracy, not mediocrity.BWU said:
Edit: Allowing headshots to slightly leak through the shields and damage health while not allowing body shots to do the same would be interesting to see. Would reward accuracy without sacrifycing the core gameplay.
The regenerator is the worst thing to happen to Halo, ever. So many ambiguous situations that just turn into people circle strafing one another hoping their melee will somehow be the one that does it.
And I officially suck at Halo now. I think every one of my games I was negative in my K/D ratio, making for some unsatisfying victories. I want to de-rank back into the teens =[
And I officially suck at Halo now. I think every one of my games I was negative in my K/D ratio, making for some unsatisfying victories. I want to de-rank back into the teens =[
Been that way in every Halo, except now with Reach you won't be able to headshot through the shield (CE's 3 shot) and health doesn't regenerate so getting a headshot after popping the shields isn't as vital because their health might already be down so spraying their body will result in a more consistent kill and even if you don't kill them you'll do permanent damage to their health. Really wish they added more emphasis on headshots to widen the skill gap. It's not terribly hard to land 4 body shots and when you reach a certain player skill pretty much everyone BRs on a similar level so it feels like its just chance most of the time. Landing headshots to give you the upper hand would help this.Stormtrooper30 said:
The laser just about ruins many competitive valhalla matches but it still trumps Coag in its map design. Coag was better than Blood Gulch in that there was a bit more elevation change across the field but not nearly enough. The lines of sight were completely ridiculous and anyone with a sniper could view the whole arena and ping off whoever they pleased. If you didn't have rockets than the warthogs and banshees would just destroy you as there wasn't many places to run. If Valhalla's turret area was at a higher elevation and controlling center wasn't quite as easy it'd be the perfect evolution of that map type.Kuroyume said:
Deputy Moonman
Member
I'm ready to hold hands now! :lolGhaleonEB said:
Just quoting this because it made me laugh. I love it when passion leads to colorful commentary.Ramirez said:
You are now ready to become a Jedi.Kenak said:
I've never been a big Valhalla fan, but probably for different reasons. I don't like the mid-point of the map being such an effective control point, where if your team is pinned down, you can't get out of your own base, but the other team can lazily wander halfway across the map without anything to worry about. As far as the colors of Valhalla, I do think it's bland. Looks like the colors have been bled or washed out. I guess I like sunny maps like Standoffenzo_gt said:
Cuban Legend
Member
My list:
1. Snowbound
2. Isolation
3. Epitaph
1. Snowbound
2. Isolation
3. Epitaph
The Librarian
Banned
Can't think of a much better Halo MP experience than a match on Valhalla...preferably BR starts.
Blueblur1 said:
I am with you on this one. I would love Reach to have all new maps so everyone has to learn them at the same time.
Plus I hope Bungie will be making maps in Reach based around the Armour Abilities. Hopefully some more Vertical maps to make use of the Rocket Packs etc.
Not a Jellyfish
but I am a sheep
Letters said:
This. Even having a steady stream of news coming every week isn't enough.
Deputy Moonman
Member
Honestly, I think I'm cool with no remakes. Ready for all new material.
bobs...onGaf
Member
Deputy Moonman said:
Im definatly excited to see some new material, but im gonna miss a lot of maps, I think Guardian and The Pit are the 2 maps I would miss the most, with Valhalla being a close 3rd
InvincibleAgent
Member
I'm fine with no remakes for most playlists, but I want some way for us to have or recreate our favorites in a throwback/custom mm playlist.
dslgunstar
Banned
Kuroyume said:
Regarding the bolded comment, I think you should adjust the color settings on your TV.
Valhalla looks less cartoony than Coag thanks too a boost in texture detail, but its absolutely gorgeous with tall grass blowing in the wind, rolling rivers, blue skies and scenic mountains. It even has a cliff-side view over an ocean at one of the bases! I think the map design on Valhalla is orders of magnitude greater than Coag. Coag was basically just a flat open area for snipers and vehicles to run free. There was little strategy to approaching the enemy base other than amassing the biggest group you could muster and approaching with vehicles from both sides of the map.
Valhalla's varied terrain cuts the sight lines way down and offers cover from snipers, vehicles, even lasers. It also limits vision enough for vehicles to 'sneak' across the map on the less crowded side of the map, which, combined with the alternate routes through the caves, rocks and through the river along the lower side of the middle hill, gives infantry more options for approaching with the bomb or escaping with the flag.
Plus, man cannons.
Valhalla is really the best version of that simple two-base-in-a-canyon map concept that Bungie has pulled off to date. Cant wait to see what they do with the Reach version!
Dax01 said:
Agreed. Well, maybe 1flag on Last Resort...
Domino Theory
Crystal Dynamics
There needs to be a Halo: Reach FlashForward Map Pack that comes free with every new copy of the game and 1600 points on XBLM for anyone who buys the game used.
The FlashForward Map Pack should come with:
Hang 'Em High
Prisoner
Ivory Tower
Sanctuary
Headlong
The Pit
Win.
The FlashForward Map Pack should come with:
Hang 'Em High
Prisoner
Ivory Tower
Sanctuary
Headlong
The Pit
Win.
bobs...onGaf
Member
RdN said:
At first I hated it, but in my opinion its an amazing map for FFA, I play a lot of FFA customs with friends and its always our top choice.