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[Wizman23]

Interesting how the article mentioned "the last stage" in Invasion. This pretty much confirms that the entire Invasion map is not going to be open from the get go.

The new gametypes really sound fantastic, especially stockpile. Team headhunter sounds awesome as well as I'm not a big fan of FFA games.

Just think in the Halo 3 beta the only new things that were introduced were VIP and shotty snipers. Reach is taking new gametypes to another stratosphere. My biggest concern for May 3rd is going to be choosing what to play. So much goodness!!

 

[Natakuu]

I really like the new info. Screens are looking good as well. Can't wait to get my hands on the new game types in the beta

 

[InvincibleAgent]

Sorry Dani, I tried.

On another note, I excited to play Stockpile. I imagine Headhunter will be flocked to by people who are good at headshots (I'm guessing that's how players drop skulls?).

Anyway, irked to not see Assault mentioned.

 

[nilam01]

Too bad these screens aren't taken from teasers or trailers

You basically decide to take a look at a couple of screenshots and just decide Bungie is going to disappoint. That doesn't really seem to be fair. It's still the Beta, it's still gameplay screenshots.

Wait for the beta and then you can complain like that

Maybe you're right, I'll wait. It's just I've been through this cycle before with halo 2 and 3, so it's kind of dissapointing to see that bungie are pulling the same trick here. Maybe I should have just ignored the vga trailer and went into this blind. I'll be sure to remember that next time bungie anounces a game.

 

[Schmitty]

Maybe you're right, I'll wait. It's just I've been through this cycle before with halo 2 and 3, so it's kind of dissapointing to see that bungie are pulling the same trick here. Maybe I should have just ignored the vga trailer and went into this blind. I'll be sure to remember that next time bungie anounces a game.

The VGA trailer was a cutsccene. Of course it is going to look better than gameplay.

 

[Gui_PT]

Maybe you're right, I'll wait. It's just I've been through this cycle before with halo 2 and 3, so it's kind of dissapointing to see that bungie are pulling the same trick here. Maybe I should have just ignored the vga trailer and went into this blind. I'll be sure to remember that next time bungie anounces a game.

I was also disappointed to see the difference between their initial trailers and the final product(only in terms of graphics, nothing else disappointed at all), but that's no reason to simply assume all Bungie can do is disappoint.

They make awesome games and they themselves admit this is going to be their biggest and best so far. Certainly they wouldn't make those kinds of statements if they weren't true

Believe =P

 

[electricpirate]

Sorry dude, but unlike some of the rabid fanboys around here, I can admit when I'm not impressed. It still looks good, but after all that hype bungie put us through about massively improving their tech and pushing the 360 I was expecting more.

I can still remember the halo 2 teaser in 2002 and the halo 2 e3 trailer in 2003 oh and don't forget the halo 3 trailer in 2007, every single time they claimed that's how the game was going to look.. yeah right. Now you can add the halo reach reveal at the vga's to that list. I love you bungie but ya need to stop hyping up your stuff so much.

Great, I get that you are the lone wolf fighting for the validity of your oppinion. If you are going to keep martyring yourself though, could you at least change the format up? Your, "I like bungie, but its not good enough" shtick gets boring when you overuse it.

 

[nilam01]

The VGA trailer was a cutsccene. Of course it is going to look better than gameplay.

Yes but the difference is pretty significant. It's not just models, but the overall lighting on the characters and environment there is a big difference between the two. \

 

[Schmitty]

Wow, the sword looks so small in that screen

Anyways, I'm reserving judgment until we see more of campaign.

 

[minasodaboy]

...and three-plot Territories (a purposeful return to Halo 2-style Territories).

brilliant.

 

[InvincibleAgent]

Wow, the sword looks so small in that screen

Art people call it fore-shortening. It looks smaller because it's pointed at us.

 

[Wizman23]

Maybe you're right, I'll wait. It's just I've been through this cycle before with halo 2 and 3, so it's kind of dissapointing to see that bungie are pulling the same trick here. Maybe I should have just ignored the vga trailer and went into this blind. I'll be sure to remember that next time bungie anounces a game.

STFU already

 

[Schmitty]

Art people call it fore-shortening. It looks smaller because it's pointed at us.

Excuse my ignorance : (

 

[Gui_PT]

Excuse my ignorance : (

You should've posted "That's what she said"

But yeah, that's why it looks small

 

[nilam01]

Great, I get that you are the lone wolf fighting for the validity of your oppinion. If you are going to keep martyring yourself though, could you at least change the format up? Your, "I like bungie, but its not good enough" shtick gets boring when you overuse it.

Do we know eachother?? If not then please don't try to make it seem like i'm overusing something, if it's the first time we're having this convo. Would you rather I would have said 'God bungie I hate you so much and halo sucks, but i'm still going to buy your game because I like to torture myself'. Now that would be lying.

STFU already

Wow lovely community you guys got going here.

 

[nilam01]

STFU already

Wow lovely community you guys got going here.

 

[Schmitty]

You're free to leave whenever you want.

You should've posted "That's what she said"

But yeah, that's why it looks small

Damn!

 

[InvincibleAgent]

Excuse my ignorance : (

It's cool. Don't mind me, just flexing my academic muscle

:lol

 

[BladedExpert]

Yes but the difference is pretty significant. It's not just models, but the overall lighting on the characters and environment there is a big difference between the two. \

http://img705.imageshack.us/img705/6776/549s.jpg[IMG]

[IMG]http://img135.imageshack.us/img135/3996/reach5.png[IMG][/QUOTE]

You can't really compare a Cutscene from campaign and a screenshot from Multiplayer BETA. Campaign always looks better than Multiplayer. Cut scene or not. As long as the Cutscenes in the final game look similar to the cutscenes we get in the full release Bungie has deceieved no one. If they fall short, we can all call them out for that. Just sayin'.

 

[nilam01]

You can't really compare a Cutscene from campaign and a screenshot from Multiplayer BETA. Campaign always looks better than Multiplayer. Cut scene or not. As long as the Cutscenes in the final game look similar to the cutscenes we get in the full release Bungie has deceieved no one. If they fall short, we can all call them out for that. Just sayin'.

What's wrong comparing something that is on the same engine. At least I can make an argument for how it could have looked like. But yeah i'm done, not much point fighting alone in a bearpit.

 

[Gui_PT]

What's wrong comparing something that is on the same engine. At least I can make an argument for how it could have looked like.

I'm no specialist but I assume the resources required for Multiplayer are completely different so as Bladed said, you can't really compare

 

[Zeouterlimits]

I'd failed to properly prepare myself for the shitstorm that screenshots would bring.

Everyone is entitled to comment on how they feel about how the game looks.
BUT
-Remember that it is a beta
-Have realistic expections (in general)

I fully believe the in-engine cutscenes will/do look how the VGA trailer showed them.
There'll be a difference between real-time gameplay and cutscenes and everyone with a lick of sense knows it and knew it.

And come on! That screenshot Thagomizer posted would have me sticking both hands down my pants if I wasn't in a computer lab working on a bloody 8-page "Human Computer Interaction" report.

 

[InvincibleAgent]

What's wrong comparing something that is on the same engine. At least I can make an argument for how it could have looked like.

What's wrong is they have a lot less control over multi, since there are so many more variables. They have to spread their resources out over many more possibilities.

 

[Gui_PT]

nvm ^^^ Explained it better

 

[dilatedmuscle]

Did Bungie say the multiplayer would be graphically downgraded from the Campaign for performance? Ive heard people say that but idk where they seen that.

THe pictures look great! The knee caps are working now lolololol the Textures are looking phenominal, the ground is super detailed.

Did anyone esle notice that the Skulls now look much better and have way better lighting then in the Multiplayer Trailer? They look REALLY good, they are casting shadows on one another and even self shadows that look phenominal.

 

[Domino Theory]

Heck, there's even a Slayer Pro variant, where your only ability is Sprint, you don't have a motion tracker, and you start with either a Designated Marksman Rifle or a Needle Rifle.

HOLY FUCKIN' DOGSHIT YESSSSSSSSSSSS.

 

[BladedExpert]

What's wrong comparing something that is on the same engine. At least I can make an argument for how it could have looked like. But yeah i'm done, not much point fighting alone in a bearpit.

Pretty much this:

I'd failed to properly prepare myself for the shitstorm that screenshots would bring.

Everyone is entitled to comment on how they feel about how the game looks.
BUT
-Remember that it is a beta
-Have realistic expections (in general)

I fully believe the in-engine cutscenes will/do look how the VGA trailer showed them.
There'll be a difference between real-time gameplay and cutscenes and everyone with a lick of sense knows it and knew it.

And come on! That screenshot Thagomizer posted would have me sticking both hands down my pants if I wasn't in a computer lab working on a bloody 8-page "Human Computer Interaction" report.

You can make an argument for how it could have looked, sure, but if you thought the Multiplayer aspect of the game would look like the cutscene, you were being extremely optimistic, to say the least.

 

[InvincibleAgent]

Did Bungie say the multiplayer would be graphically downgraded from the Campaign for performance? Ive heard people say that but idk where they seen that.

THe pictures look great! The knee caps are working now lolololol the Textures are looking phenominal, the ground is super detailed.

Did anyone esle notice that the Skulls now look much better and have way better lighting then in the Multiplayer Trailer? They look REALLY good, they are casting shadows on one another and even self shadows that look phenominal.

They haven't made it explicitly clear, but it's the case with just about any game that assets from campaign are downgraded such that many can fit onscreen at once in multi (Like a Spartan, or weapons strewn across the ground). Think of times in Halo 3 where you've got dozens of guys and their guns laying on the ground. Those have to have less polys and effects considering the number of objects, or we'd see slow-down.

 

[Thagomizer]

What's wrong comparing something that is on the same engine. At least I can make an argument for how it could have looked like. But yeah i'm done, not much point fighting alone in a bearpit.

Because Multiplayer always has a significant visual downgrade from single player. This is most visible on Invasion, which is missing environmental effects and has a much simpler, flatter lightmap in the network test version than the Campaign asset.

 

[electricpirate]

Do we know eachother?? If not then please don't try to make it seem like i'm overusing something, if it's the first time we're having this convo. Would you rather I would have said 'God bungie I hate you so much and halo sucks, but i'm still going to buy your game because I like to torture myself'. Now that would be lying.



Wow lovely community you guys got going here.

This thread is pretty insular, so when you enter at regular intervals and post nearly the exact same thing its ocvious. expect some well deserved razzing, move on without getting defensive.

 

[DualX]

Because Multiplayer always has a significant visual downgrade from single player.

And there's a reason for that. Utilizing the online portion of any game also occupies a bit of the console's (or PC) processor ontop of all of the action that normally goes on during a match. Just sum it up to optimization.

 

[SpudBud]

HOLY FUCKIN' DOGSHIT YESSSSSSSSSSSS.

Spoiler

I just wanted to use this .gif

 

[dilatedmuscle]

I dont mean to sound like a jackass but I think this game will have the best textures of any 360 game by a long shot. Halo CE made me texture spoiled, the bump mapping in that game was insane, the ice was super detailed and Halo continues to do the same in this generation. Cant wait until next gen to see some real-time lighting at 1080p running at 60fps and 16X AA on Halo

 

[Brainboy]

Hmm... I don't quite understand why a 3v3 gametype is designated as the 'Network Test' gametype. Surely a 6v6 or 8v8 gametype is a bigger strain on the network? (The actual gametype itself sounds absolutely fantastic, though. I love small objective games, and this sounds like a really refined idea.)

 

[Pennybags]

It would be pretty neat if the Longsword weapon drops were being tested for possible inclusion in Invasion.

I wonder, what is stressing the network in Generator Defense? The campaign-style weapon pod drops, the destructible generators, or something else?

 

[Thagomizer]

Hmm... I don't quite understand why a 3v3 gametype is designated as the 'Network Test' gametype. Surely a 6v6 or 8v8 gametype is a bigger strain on the network? (The actual gametype itself sounds absolutely fantastic, though. I love small objective games, and this sounds like a really refined idea.)

6 person test.

The single player squad?

6.


Edit: as a side note, what is that circle behind the foramen magnum on the Headhunter skulls?

 

[Demoncarnotaur]

I love this screenshot:

I also really like the picture of the 2 Spartans taking down the Elite outside. Wow does that one look nice. The Elites are huge.. :lol

I really am digging all of the new gametype, Headhunters and Stockpile sound like they will be pretty fun. What I am most looking forward to is Generator Defense. It pains me to think it may not make the final cut of the game. The weapon drops sound awesome..


On the graphical debate: I honestly think these screens look really nice. While they do not define graphics by any means, I don't think they look horrible. My one major complaint is that the lighting in some of the shots looks severely reduced giving them a stale, empty look.

 

[kylej]

My only consolation is they wouldn't last two games in my shoes before ragequitting, as evidenced by kylej's furious posts about those rare occasions when someone in e.g. France gets host.

I have a hard time believing the founding fathers of America underwent the Revolutionary War because they wanted my BR to be less effective.

 

[metareferential]

It looks like a lot of the effects are missing, like shadowing, shaders effect and so on.

The multiplayer aprils fools vidoc is much better.

 

[JaggedSac]

Hmm... I don't quite understand why a 3v3 gametype is designated as the 'Network Test' gametype. Surely a 6v6 or 8v8 gametype is a bigger strain on the network? (The actual gametype itself sounds absolutely fantastic, though. I love small objective games, and this sounds like a really refined idea.)

That depends on what exactly they are testing. There could easily be some non-visual things going on in the background. Code snoopers might be able to see once the beta is released.

 

[electricpirate]

I don't really see the technical reasons for the flatter lighting compared to the trailer, it seems more like a gameplay decision to me. Halo is all about bright gumdrop colors that make your targets stand out against clean enviroments. Really dramatic lighting that obscures details is more for splinter cell mp than halo mp.

 

[chess]

6 person test.

The single player squad?

6.


Edit: as a side note, what is that circle behind the foramen magnum on the Headhunter skulls?

That's what I was thinking. Maybe it's using coop/firefight multiplayer code and features.

 

[derFeef]

It´s a bit unfair that everyone jumps on nilam´s throat. Bungie is never good at taking screenshots sadly and Halo always looks better in motion, but honestly, I cringed a bit as well seeing this shots.

 

[Devin Olsen]

All this graphic hate really makes me wonder if this is why developers shy away from showing their game until it nears completion.

I personally think the screen-shots all look great, and the game-type sound even better. I am definitely hyped and looking forward to the Beta.

Not to sure what to think of certain game-types opening up later on during the beta... I wonder if it will be a matter of days or weeks until we have all the game-types open to us.

 

[feel]

Loving the screens. Don't know what you guys are on about. It'll look better in motion anyway.

Slayer PRO! H2 territories!

 

[CrazedArabMan]

Ugh, I really want to know what invasion is, some of these other gametypes sound good, but I'm still looking forward to invasion info.

 

[GhaleonEB]

Hmm... I don't quite understand why a 3v3 gametype is designated as the 'Network Test' gametype. Surely a 6v6 or 8v8 gametype is a bigger strain on the network? (The actual gametype itself sounds absolutely fantastic, though. I love small objective games, and this sounds like a really refined idea.)

Presumably, while the gametype is limited to 3v3, there's more going on behind the scenes that during a "normal" gametype. They could be testing a different set of net code, be simulating AI in the background for Firefight, or any number of other possibilities. It seems clear from the hints Bungie has doled out that they're testing more than just straight-up multiplayer with NT1.

You can't really compare a Cutscene from campaign and a screenshot from Multiplayer BETA. Campaign always looks better than Multiplayer. Cut scene or not. As long as the Cutscenes in the final game look similar to the cutscenes we get in the full release Bungie has deceieved no one. If they fall short, we can all call them out for that. Just sayin'.

And it's also a cut scene that was pushed up to a final state of completion, not beta. Cut scenes will look better than gameplay, finished imagery will look better than Beta. Compare when the game ships.

Graphically, the MP stuff is huge leaps ahead of Halo 3's beta, and that's all that I really care about.

Interesting how the article mentioned "the last stage" in Invasion. This pretty much confirms that the entire Invasion map is not going to be open from the get go.

Not necessarily. It could refer to escalating weapon drops, or shifting objectives - not map section unlocks. I'm not sure how you'd restrict access to parts of a map that has jetpacks and Banshees on it (unless they were small indoors sections).

 

[nilam01]

All this graphic hate really makes me wonder if this is why developers shy away from showing their game until it nears completion.

I personally think the screen-shots all look great, and the game-type sound even better. I am definitely hyped and looking forward to the Beta.

Not to sure what to think of certain game-types opening up later on during the beta... I wonder if it will be a matter of days or weeks until we have all the game-types open to us.

Nobody's hating here. I was just trying to express my dissapointment with how bungie manages their hype, the game looks a lot better than halo 3, especially the models which are some of the best in the industry. It's just that bungie hyped me up expecting something truly groundbreaking, with that in mind I was dissapointed with the new screens. The environment have some really sterile texture work, the lighting is flat and the special effects like explosions etc. seem outdated. I can't judge how the game is going to play through screenshots, the only thing we CAN judge is how the game is going to look, in that regard i feel letdown.

 

[Trasher]

It's finally complete. Not a chopper montage, but more A Love Letter to the Chopper.

Link to the video without music for when/if the audio gets cut on my many copyright infringing soundtracks.

Spoiler

Forget you've ever seen Bladed's montage and forgive all aspects of the production value, both visual and audio.

Bravo sir. Thanks for betraying me you jerk(@9:12)! Last two seconds of the clip are my favorite btw.

So everyone freaks out about 3 Plots now? We've known this since the multiplayer trailer!

 

[The Librarian]

Halo Reach Preview (1up.com)

Reading now... Apparently it outlines some of the new game types (except invasion)

Thanks for this, Devin. Definitely worth a read.

I noticed this when they were talking about generator defense, and I haven't seen it brought up yet:

On the topic of what gear players will have, he further notes, "In general, the Loadouts are designed to be shared across multiple modes, but you'll definitely see some surprises in this [mode]. They are more in line with the final stage of an Invasion game, which means it's pretty crazy from the beginning. Add in the [aforementioned] dynamic Weapon Drop, and you get some nice variety."

If I'm not mistaken, this line further expands upon what Urk was teasing in the last BWU: progression of load outs throughout a particular gametype. Given what he said, it sounds like at the start of certain gametypes the load outs are very simple, but as the game goes on, the load outs become more complicated. Hence why NT1 is similar in craziness as the final stage of Invasion from the get-go.

It's a gametype that was crafted specifically to test Bungie's netcode during the beta, hence why it's referred to as "Network Test 1" by the developers. And yes, IIRC, someone at Bungie said depending on how the community responds to the gametype, and no doubt some behind the scenes data/discussions, it may or may not make it into the final game.

I wonder what Bungie is testing with their netcode if it's only 3v3.

The game looks decent, but I expected more from a bungie game that is pushing the 360. Especially considering the screens are bullshots.

Edit:

http://img687.imageshack.us/img687/1779/545s.jpg[/IMG

Wow some pretty significant clipping of the AR right there.[/QUOTE]
Damn. I'll give you credit for trying.

*looks at screenshot*
*watches first Reach MP trailer*
*notes that this is from the alpha version of the game*
*compares screenshot with in-game footage.

Looks about the same to me.