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Halo Reach Reveal Thread - Matchmaking/Multiplayer Details Revealed
- Thread starter Slightly Live
- Start date
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Smokey said:
The reveal cut-scene references Ghosts of Onix and other EU elements, Pegasai and ONI (also featured heavily in ODST). It's good to see Bungie continue to incorporate Expanded Universe material (novels, comics et al) in the main Halo games.
Although the heightened reflexes, strength, et I think are already present in the games, with Master Chief flipping tanks left and right, jumping metres into the air effortlessly and punching the hell out of the Brutes. The only thing I think they have missed out on is the awesome eyesight, but I don't think it was incorporated because there wasn't any space for it gameplay wise.
I wouldn't be surprised if Reach features much more from the Expanded Universe than we know now. The whole Spartan II stuff for example is entirely originated in the EU and I cannot imagine the game not making mention of the other Spartans on the ground and Dr Halsey or ONI's CASTLE at least in passing.
BattleMonkey
Member
Dani said:
Bungie has always worked closely with the EU development, so they know their history. Bungie does have their huge Halo Lore bible which they give out to those that produce expanded material for their universe as well to keep people on the same page.
They still make mistakes though with lot of little details, but only the anal notice these things.
Halo Wars was probably the worst when it came to sticking with the lore with little details and in general shitty presentation of the technology when it was set almost 20 years before the main Halo games.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Smokey said:
I mean the VGA trailer, which is a cut-scene from the game, which was the first reveal of Reach's visual style, presentation and engine. :lol Sorry for the confusion.
Fook, Zayne is fast today.
In any Halo game, you can flip the vehicles upright if they become wrongly situated, warthogs, tanks, etc. In the Halo 3 multiplayer, if you manage to overturn an Elephant, you get a nice message when you flip it over. :lol
The cut-scene in your avatar...? What's going on? EDIT: I meant that the scene in your avatar is from the reveal cutscene. I was confused how you didn't know what it was.Smokey said:
And it wasn't like, a cutscene in Halo for the tank flip. It's the fact that you can walk up to a tank and "Press B to flip Scorpion"
Ohhhhh ok
I am so used to flipping over tanks/warthogs etc., that I never really thought of it like that:lol .
The Lone Wolf is walking into the area where the rest of the Spartans are to meet the commander and the rest of the team. He comes through the door like a OG all the while showing off the amazing lighting that Bungie has incorporated into their new engine.
I am so used to flipping over tanks/warthogs etc., that I never really thought of it like that:lol .
big ander said:
The Lone Wolf is walking into the area where the rest of the Spartans are to meet the commander and the rest of the team. He comes through the door like a OG all the while showing off the amazing lighting that Bungie has incorporated into their new engine.
Smokey said:
I've never really dug multiplayer Halo for this exact reason. You're supposed to be this bad-ass guy but I feel like I'm moving in water most of the time. The floaty jumping and no running contributes the most to this. Plus I don't like the sensitivity of the controls. I play Halo 3 with sensitivity to 10 and I still feel like there's a ball and chain around me. It's like I'm the Michelin Man trying to navigate quicksand. I feel handicapped, not all powerful.
I feel like I have way more "power" or "bad assery" in a game like CoD4 or MW2. I can run fast, jump, go prone. I can equip perks and call in back-up when I need it. My aiming is nice and fast and super precise. I feel like the Halo soldier is from present time and the MW2 is from Bungie's universe. Put the MW2 soldier/Infinity Ward's controls in Halo and you'd have the perfect game.
BattleMonkey
Member
Smokey said:
Might have confused you with ODST too since they somehow had the regular humans able flip vehicles by themselves. It was obviously a gameplay decision but it was odd of them when they clearly took out other features to make the ODST seem more human.
RSTEIN said:
A lot the control that you feel in MW2 has to do with it being 60FPS. Before my 360 red ringed last week I went back to Halo 3 after getting tired of the shitstick that is MW2. It definitely feels weird not being able to sprint and the game does feel more sluggish than MW/MW2 IMO with regards to aiming and movement.
Reading about what the suits do to the Spartans I'm like...damn. This sounds crazy, but why don't I really feel like I have this type of destructive power when playing?
I haven't played ODST yet, but I guess that's when you really notice the difference between the Spartans and other units?
BattleMonkey
Member
Smokey said:
The only difference was the ODST can take less hits before dying, and they can't dual wield. But otherwise they didn't change that ODST can flip vehicles, rip off and carry giant turret weapons (though can't dual wield two small weapons).
Also spartans can fall from insane heights and not take damage but the ODST will take damage from high falls.
I think it's just a problem in scale. If you move forward in Halo 3 campaign, the marines fall back quickly. They can't keep up. When you enter a tunnel where you just barely clear it, Marines are impressed at how roomy it is. The scale on the Halo games is very very large, so it fits a Spartan perfectly. We're just never really given the opportunity to notice how powerful we really are.RSTEIN said:
BattleMonkey
Member
Halo games do have an odd feel when compared to other games when it comes to weight. I mean just the jumping you do has very little weight at all. It's also a matter of feedback/sound in the game. I mean jumping off a building as a spartan should have some kind of sound/impact to it. There should be a strong thud that makes you feel like your a heavy ass super soldier in armor but it's silent. It would be awesome if they added an impact effect for spartans to halo reach or something. Like ground breaking underneath them, dust kicking up into the air.... something to make em look badass. Right now the spartans seem like they are jumping around on the moon with how they look in MP.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
RSTEIN said:
I see the jumping mechanics as an extension of the Spartan's strength, despite wearing a suit that weighs half a ton you can still jump over a full human sized height. I've never seen someone relate Halo's pace (which is obviously not the twitchiest or fastest) to the feeling of power. I've never felt that faster = more powerful.
Have you ever experimented with the speed options in Custom games? You can change the speed up by quite a bit. In multiplayer, the MLG playlist actually has increased movement speed too.
10 not enough? The average person keep it on default, you must have some serious issues needing to crank it up all high like that. Do you play other games with max sensitivity?
RSTEIN said:
Fair enough that COD has more movement option, sprinting, prone. I hate the pathetic jump though, I'm too ingrained with Halo and it's annoying not being able to jump over the smallest of geometry pieces.
However stuff like equipping perks and getting free computer assisted kills is just a cheap reward method which doubly punishes the losing team (they are punished by being out gunned firstly and then by having an unfair advantage against them with AI kills which furthers the distance of kills between the teams).
I don't see much difference between the aiming in both games, bar COD's iron sights, you can have perfect accurate aiming already in Halo so a forced mechanic that lessens and degrades standard aiming to promote using sights probably wouldn't be welcomed into the Halo gameplay style.
BTW, are you suggesting Halo adopt MW2's gameplay in addition to it's controls?
Personally, whilst I acknowledge that there is plenty of scope for improving or touching up Halo's already great controls, I don't think MW2 is the thing to emulate. Doubly so with any MW2 gameplay mechanic.
BattleMonkey
Member
LCfiner said:
and apparently the battle rifle *shakes fist*
The Librarian
Banned
For the better. Dual-wielding made a lot of Halo's weapons weaker. In Halo: CE, the plasma pistol and the plasma rifle were actually useful. Not so much in 2/3.Smokey said:
BattleMonkey
Member
Dax01 said:
The plasma rifle has always been useful even by itself, they just made it ridiculous by letting you dual wield it. The plasma pistol has always sucked outside of the overcharge shot. In ODST it still was a piece of crap even though we were forced to use only one. Only reason to use it was because there was so many laying around and lack of ammo for other guns.
ODST just made many of the weapons that we couldn't dual wield anymore useless.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
BattleMonkey said:
I welcomed the loss of the BR for a change, forced you to use other weapons.
Like the Carbine! =P
Smokey said:
I'm not so sure about that. A lot of the very obvious differences are highlighted like the lack of MJOLNIR armor or the reduced speed/height of the main character. Any enemy in the game can outrun you and if you play Halo like me you're going to find this out the hard way.
However some parts of the gameplay that I attributed to the Spartan's special skillset in the trilogy were left untouched. I always felt that the weapons should've had more recoil when you're not playing a Spartan and maybe Bungie should've taken a couple of elements from Killzone 2's first person view to make the weapons feel heavier and to make the movement a bit less smooth. It's never a good idea to limit the player too much so I respect Bungie's decision to leave some of the more superhuman stuff that the Master Chief could do in ODST.
I think what makes Spartans so special compared the regular marines above any physical enhancements/superpowers is their ability to pilot any vehicle and use every weapon, human or alien (man I loved that trailer). Where the regular Marines would need to call in a specialist the Spartans just cover any of the different warfare categories. Every Spartan is a Medic, Sniper, Vehicle Specialist and Close Quarters Combat expert, some more than others but everyone of them is expertly trained even with Covenant equipment.
That aspect isn't well portrayed in ODST because you can use every weapon and almost any vehicle in the game just like the Master Chief could.
Some of the differences like superior eyesight or better reflexes are hard to portray in a game. Especially in a series where you are used to having these abilities but end up losing them in the next installment. Should Bungie have blurred/smeared the screen in ODST or should they have lowered the sensitivity settings and reduced the FOV even further?
There is a fine line between making the player feel different and punishing the player.
Vast Inspiration
Banned
There is a fine line between adhering to story quibbles and ruining the bloody gameplay.
BattleMonkey
Member
Vast Inspiration said:
No there isn't. Who says you can't keep gameplay in line with some minor changes? We wouldn't know for sure since no one tried it. Just because you couldn't flip over vehicles the gameplay was ruined? Perhaps they should fix the shitty physics so that any little thing doesn't flip over said vehicles?
The bigger problem seems to be that they just fear actual change. They like to add, but not change what has come before out of fear of backlash.
The Librarian
Banned
The plasma rifle and the plasma pistol in Halo: CE are far more deadly than their 2/3 counterparts. Dual wielding ruined both.BattleMonkey said:
Interesting. I didn't know the suit weighs so much.Dani said:
I feel like my movement is being constricted. I'm certainly in powerful in the sense that I can jump high. I can lift heavy things. But strength is one part of power. Where's the finesse? Speed? Agility? Walk, walk, walk, juuuuuuuuuuuuuump, walk, walk, walk. As someone above said, it's like you're trying to navigate the moon or something. Then I try to turn around because someone is shooting me from behind and it's like I'm trying to do a 3 point turn in a Mack truck.
No, never experimented with that.Dani said:
Yeah, always max. I'm a PC gaming convert so maybe that's it.Dani said:
I agree. I wish there was a killstreak free playlist.Dani said:
I certainly feel the difference. It could just be 60fps vs. 30fps. Halo just feels so much slower and less precise.Dani said:
I'm not suggesting anything, just responding to Smokey's post RE: feeling powerful in the game.Dani said:
I think every game should try to beat Infinity Ward's controls. Best I've ever had in console gaming. So precise and buttery smooth. The closest feeling I get to the control of a mouse and keyboard. I also think every game should try to best Bungie's matchmaking and netcode (which as far as I can tell is the best).Dani said:
Vast Inspiration said:
I wouldn't call them story quibbles but yeah, you're right. This issue almost has me questioning whether ODST was really worth it since the classic Halo gameplay and encounter design would have suffered a lot more if Bungie had sticked 100% to the canon.
But on the other hand the ODST's abilities weren't downgraded enough compared to the Spartans we know and the game made it seem like the only difference between the ODST's and the Spartans is a bulky green high-tech suit that gives you shields and makes you run faster.
It's a very interesting challenge and I would love to have more insight about this particular aspect of game design.
RSTEIN said:
This I agree with. I prefer H3 MP to MW, but one thing I will give IW props for is the controls. Again, I dunno if it's because of the difference in 60FPS and 30FPS, but it feels super smooth. That's about the only thing they have over Halo (and I've put 80 something hrs of MP into MW2). God knows it certainly isn't matchmaking:lol
Smokey said:
Only because it was pretty much the equivalent of the AR. H2/H3 added the short-range weapon class that the SMG and Plasma Rifle fit in, and they have their own niche. Still works pretty well IMO. I can still pair up Spikers/SMGs/Plasma Rifles and be competitive at close range with enemies. They're situation-specific weapons, but they have their uses, which are constantly proven for me anyway at close range. I swap out my pistol for a spiker whenever I can.
Now all they need is a weapon to replace the purpose the plasma rifle served in CE, to be the covenant version of the AR.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
BattleMonkey said:
Oh come on. Halo has the most engaging interactive game spaces of any video game. Being propelled on a mongoose over an edge, boosted with a brute, tumbling high into the air whilst barrel-rolling twice a second, straight into an enemy flying over the man cannon.
The physics are what makes Halo enjoyable. Games can have so much variety, so much utter silliness and mayhem. Things are both predictable in one sense and unpredictable in another, the replayablity is huge, as the weekly LIVE activity lists will attest for the past few years.
Vehicle handling in Halo in nigh on perfect. Maybe practice a bit? I can easily steer out of multiple flips and barrel rolls in a hog, it took practice and it doesn't work every time, but I can do it. Trust me, if the physics were shit, many folks would be agreeing with you.
BattleMonkey said:
Oh come on(again). Bungie took out the main weapon going from Halo to Halo 2. Introduced dual wielding, introduced the Arbiter and the Covenant perspective, change the properties of almost every weapon each game and more besides.
However, the old saying, if it ain't broke, don't fix it, applies. There's little reason to change something if it ain't broken, but Bungie do change things up and do suffer the backlash from fans when they fail to get it right.
SMHenzo_gt said:
As for ODST vs. Spartan gameplay design: the changes implemented mostly reflect hwo Bungie feels Halo should play as a whole. Be it spartan or ODST it doesn't matter. Those working on ODST didn't like dual wielding and are haunted by the memories of 11 year olds 4 shotting them online. So they made some changes, they wanted to put something in to give players long-term tension, so they put the health bar back in. It really had nothing to do with making some palpable difference between ODSTs and Spartans. These changes are very likely to carry over to Reach as they serve as the most recent look into Bungie's Halo design; of course things could change and they can see the errors in their ways (BR). But as hinted by T. Morello they may've gotten the false impression that gamers enjoy a non-regenerative system that forces players to walk around the map seeking aid.
Some changes to ODST that could just be exclusive to that game are radar and equipment. Personally I think radar should stay gone (it'll be there) and equipment can come back (may've been replaced/added alongside "perks").
The Librarian
Banned
Oh no! He doesn't like playing Halo in the exact same manner as you do! Sound the alarm!EazyB said:
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Dax01 said:
To be fair, dropping a pistol for a single spiker is not a wise move. The pistol, even Halo 3 pistol can aid you much more effectively than s single spiker.
We also do not need another AR for that matter, Covenant clone or whatever. I'd rather they implement something new.
The Librarian
Banned
I think the spiker is a lot more fun to use than the Halo 3 pistol.Dani said:
The plasma pistol in Halo 1 was basically the AR equivalent of the Covenant (hell, in most situations, I'd take plasma rifle from CE over the MA5B). It worked out fine in Halo 1.
BattleMonkey
Member
Dani said:
And it's over minor things, I can see why Bungie is afraid of doing any real major changes to the formula since they will get roasted for it. Being massively successful and having a hardcore fanbase is also a handicap for developers as they are confined in what they can can't do. Even if something would be for the better, the fans will often hiss and get touchy about any type of change. The most silly things such as weapon balance changes creates a frenzy, how are they expected to try any major game changes? "if it ain't broke" is just a strawman for fans to hold onto something they hope to not see changed.
Can they improve on things? Sure, does it need massive overhaul? No. But will they change things with how much pressure is on them? Doubt it.
It's not a matter of bungie failing to get it right, it's all opinion and even if they are in the right, the fans will still be vocal about it and claim it's bad change.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
BattleMonkey said:
See all the bitching fans have been making comparing Halo 2 and 3. :lol
BattleMonkey said:
Those things don't exist because of performance reasons. Similar to the fire grenades being in the campaign but not MP. Go to top green on Guardian and stare at the vines crawling up the wall between gate jump and blue elbow. As you walk towards blue room all the detail of the foliage will gradually fade in. There are a lot of clever performance tricks.
Vast Inspiration
Banned
Oh shut up please. Lets have Bungie completely change the physics of the vehicles (which are perfect currently) so that they can't flip over...AND when they do, the regular ODSTs can't flip them back. Lets make it so the ODST can't carry turrets. Lets make it so that ODSTs can't drive all vehicles.BattleMonkey said:
Lets ruin the fucking sandbox in the name of minor story consistencies. Are you listening to yourself? Have Bungie change the fucking physics so that ODSTs wouldn't have to flip vehicles! It really does boil down to annoying fucking assholes who constantly nerd-out over every tiny minor thing when the final explanation is....THE GAME IS MORE FUN THIS WAY!
I shake my head every time Voc or Urk or Frankie try to give detailed plausible explanations for changes. You know what, fuck the 6 people who are so anal about story consistencies. You're playing a fucking videogame...why don't you make the gameplay your bloody priority rather than bitching about 3 sentences someone wrote in a book almost 10 years ago. Shit.
BattleMonkey
Member
Vast Inspiration said:
Cry me a river. And I never said to completely change things or remove shit from the game. Little tweaks here or there is perfectly fine and I think definitely needed. But like I already said, as with most things halo fans, they go apeshit about minor things or the possibility of change. Thanks for proving my point.
Boohoo someone else concerns don't match my own, boohoo fuck them. :lol give me a break.
Vast Inspiration
Banned
Are you kidding me? I'm saying that vehicle flipping and turret carrying are the type of gameplay changes which make the game more fun. Getting rid of dual wielding make the entire weapon arsenal more fun. I'm saying that everything Bungie does should be first and foremost about gameplay.BattleMonkey said:
Your argument is about story quibbles. As you yourself stated that Bungie should've changed the fucking physics engine so that we wouldn't have the dilemma and story inconsistency of ODSTs being able to flip vehicles. You are the joke.
I don't play competitive multiplayer online that much. I play campaign, coop, and splitscreen multiplayer. Bungie can make all the changes they want! I'm just saying that those changes should be improvements to make the game more fun to play, not so that people like you can rest easy because Bungie adhered to the one paragraph from a book.
BattleMonkey
Member
Vast Inspiration said:
The story things are minor, I even said I understood their reasoning for keeping things as is, but still does not change the fact that I feel things need to be tweaked. Removing things entirely, complete overhauls? Never said it was needed but of course making some tweaks and fixes is always a good thing.
Not being able to flip vehicles over is a minor thing, I'm more interested in them working on a less floaty and touchy physics as it's a bit much as is and has been for a while now. In Halo CE it was unique and made Halo something special but now that physics have been embraced by so many games and I think done better in some ways, it would be nice to see overall more weight and feel put into the game as I was talking about floaty physics as a whole and lack of impact in the game.
Will little tweaks ruin the game? I doubt it but obviously you think so, but hey your opinion is so much more important than others.
NullPointer
Member
Any ODST can do the same ;pLCfiner said:
Edit: Man, this place has way too much kool-aid. Someone gives the game any criticism and out comes the defenders of Bungie's absolute fucking perfection of gaming that is all things Halo. C'mon guys. Give it a rest, relax, open up to alternate viewpoints, or just get less defensive about discussion on a discussion forum.