Poodlestrike
Banned
I think bittersweet would hit the nail on the head. Chief works out (some) of his issues, confronts what was done for him, ends the threat du jour, maybe even makes the galaxy a better place in the process, but dies doing it.
-
Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.
HaloGAF |OT: Anniversary| So fades the great harvest of our betrayal.
- Thread starter User 73706
- Start date
I think bittersweet would hit the nail on the head. Chief works out (some) of his issues, confronts what was done for him, ends the threat du jour, maybe even makes the galaxy a better place in the process, but dies doing it.
Was thinking like: "Humankind (barely) survives, but every single named characters manages to die, and the situation is precarious" And "Individual characters do not most likely die happy".
...
What do you mean that's not even bittersweet, just plain depressing?
Poodlestrike
Banned
See, I'm pretty sure you're joking, but I just want to say that that's basically my worse-case scenario. I cannot stand depressing stories.
I don't mind depressing stories, but I do think that you have to "earn" them the same way as a good ending. If you don't, you end up with bullshit like Elizabeth dying in Bioshock Infinite to save a single giant-headed monster child, complete with a Edith Piaf song.
There hasn't been a "happy ending" in Halo, anyhow. Sure, humanity wasn't destroyed, the Flood didn't infest the galaxy, but all of the games come with a pretty big cost--the crew of the Autumn (and by extension, Reach), millions of lives on Earth, millions again when the Didact composed New Phoenix...
Happy endings are "they all lived happily ever after", which for simple reasons of self preservation seem unlikely to happen in Halo the same way as "they all died". If you do that there's no point in telling more stories.
There hasn't been a "happy ending" in Halo, anyhow. Sure, humanity wasn't destroyed, the Flood didn't infest the galaxy, but all of the games come with a pretty big cost--the crew of the Autumn (and by extension, Reach), millions of lives on Earth, millions again when the Didact composed New Phoenix...
Happy endings are "they all lived happily ever after", which for simple reasons of self preservation seem unlikely to happen in Halo the same way as "they all died". If you do that there's no point in telling more stories.
Actually i'm semi-serious, i really wouldn't mind seeing even a quite sad ending. Triumphant endings are too predictable, too common. Hell, bittersweet ones seem to be too common too.
Just don't give us something like Mass Effect 3 had, even with the extended edition, it is shit.
EDIT actually, happy or just "good" endings are ok, if they're well done. That's rare though.
Poodlestrike
Banned
See, selecting an ending based on how common that kind of ending is sounds batshit to me. People are too jaded to accept a genuinely positive ending, fine, but depressing endings are just... depressing. Pass.
I want unpredictability. Not only in the type of ending, but what happens in it. Sad endings are more unpredictable, if only because they're rare in the first place. EDIT i don't really mean "everything dies", more like "It isn't a happy victory by any means". Simple destruction is too predictable, and boring.
Besides, Halo isn't the kind of world that should have a happy ending. I think most of its endings have been too happy so far. It is the kind of world where a good ending should require far, far more work than its endings so far required.
And bittersweet ones... well, none of Halos bittersweet ones really work so far, IMO. Halo 4 especially is bad in this regard. A piece of software "dies", a blank character feels sad, and a million is a statistic.
EDIT not that predictability is necessarily a bad thing, but if something is predictable, it should be also damn good while at it. It is easy to predict what happens in Mass Effect 2 if you ignore every side quest and ship upgrades... but the ending works well even then. And it is easy to predict how it goes if you do everything, but it is also awesome then.
FUNKNOWN iXi
Member
Master Chief can't die.
NobleGundam
Banned
The Librarian activated the seeds within him which the composer is ineffective to compose the chief.
Spartans can die.
I'd say that the running theme of Halo has been that we can overcome most anything but not without loss. Generally though it's been fairly optimistic which I'm fine with (yes I'd say humanity actually surviving in the position it was in at the start of the series was optimistic). I think it was all rather well done.
I could see Chief making it out of this alive too.
I'm just not sure how they'll swing it. Given how it has to actually make sense for Chief. On the one hand I don't really see him wanting to return to a corrupt system (especially after going rogue which we know he will). However he doesn't seem like wants to just quit being a hero though. It's highly dependent on how he develops as a character and as a human rather than just a soldier.
Either way I agree it's been rather one sided.
Are you thinking that it's a case of unreliable narrator (no narrator but the actual name escapes me) and we've been given a skewed perspective? That'd be... interesting to say the least.
I could see Chief making it out of this alive too.
I'm just not sure how they'll swing it. Given how it has to actually make sense for Chief. On the one hand I don't really see him wanting to return to a corrupt system (especially after going rogue which we know he will). However he doesn't seem like wants to just quit being a hero though. It's highly dependent on how he develops as a character and as a human rather than just a soldier.
Chiefs mental state or Halsey having her arm chopped off for a (within the context of the series) minor bullet wound?
Either way I agree it's been rather one sided.
Are you thinking that it's a case of unreliable narrator (no narrator but the actual name escapes me) and we've been given a skewed perspective? That'd be... interesting to say the least.
That is amazing.Someone took the dating sim episode of Gravity Falls and did this.
mixed feelings
I still need to watch Gravity Falls
Poodlestrike
Banned
Disagree. Unless it's a last-second swerve sort of deal, sad endings are generally just as (if not more) predictable than any other kind. Halo 4's ending really worked for me (since, by that point, I had developed an attachment to Cortana as a character, rather than "just a piece of software"), as did the other bittersweet ones; CE's falls under that category, as does 3.
The last edit, though, I am inclined to agree with. Predictability doesn't matter so much if you enjoy the ride. ME3's ending was no better for being unexpected.
The only thing i can remember having a sad ending (not counting games with options, and those are often lame) is Starcraft: Brood War. Sure didn't expect it. Indeed it is one of the best endings i can think of (ignoring some stupidity in the story that was required for the ending to happen), it really can't be even described as bittersweet. Now i might be reading and playing wrong things... but i really wouldn't mind seeing them occasionally, more of them.
(Not sure if Star Wars episode 3 ending can be counted as sad, but i tend to look Star Wars as a whole, so it has only one ending and it is a good, happy ending.)
I have to note that i realized i'm not quite sure if i mean bad (not badly done ofc) or evil ending instead of a sad one. Unhappy ending?
Halo 4's ending works as long as i ignore the Chief and Cortana, and that goddamn romance (can't interpret it any other way). Cortana was fine as a character until that, IMO (and the Chief i have never liked as a character, or player avatar).
Agreed.
Though I must say an ending can make or break a story.
Woorloog, out of curiosity why do you say that Cortana is just a piece of software? Chief being sad I can understand being underwhelmed at given that as a character he still has some work to do but Cortana dying (assuming she is actually dead) is a pivotal moment in the series. She can't just be replaced either. Or did you just mean that as a sort broad statement?
*edit*
The ending of the third Star Wars was crap and should never be considered as a good example of anything except maybe cool fight scenes. None of Anakins actions made ANY sense.
Poodlestrike
Banned
Episode 3's ending is actually a good example of why I don't like sad stories. It's very much the result of a series of astonishingly poor decisions by the characters, to the point that you really have to step back and wonder what the hell they were thinking. It's not a universal constant, of course (1984 pulled off a tragic ending without either telegraphing it or making it feel undeserved), but that does tend to be the pattern. Besides, my RL is depressing enough without actively seeking out misery
Also, I think the "romance" really worked. It's just so deeply, incredibly dysfunctional on so many levels.
Because that's how i see AIs (they're tools, not beings as far as i'm concerned. Doesn't mean they can't be good characters though, And no, i don't see contradiction here). And because Cortana was fine as a character before Bungie (and 343i) started pushing this romance between her and the Chief.
Am i supposed to care about some in-human cyborg falling in love with an AI, a cyborg with a personality of a brick and an AI with personality that sure doesn't seem to have any romantic aspects (making the whole thing unbelievable in the first place)? And that death... ugh... Should have left out the part where the Cortana says goodbye and leave the Chief hanging and it might have been better.
I happen to like the implication the Spartans are broken, sociopaths, and if the Chief-Cortana relationship is interpreted as some kind of twisted dependence (since Halsey is kind of pseudo-mother for the Spartans, and Cortana resembles Halsey...), Cortana's death works nicely. But that doesn't mean i like either character. Nor do i see Cortana as more than software.
And unfortunately i expect she isn't permanently dead as far the series is concerned.
EDIT yeah, the romance works if you look at it as something dysfunctional. But then it is the romance that's "good", not the characters. IMO.
Now i might be defining Cortana a bit too much based on her relationship with the Chief... but since Halo 3 and 4's plots seem to be running based on it, what else am i supposed to do?
ViewtifulJC
Banned
what do you think that little hole in the middle of the disc is for einstein
Prinz Eugn
Member
Obvs. you need the 1.2 update
Steelyuhas
Member
Nanomachines, sci-fi's very own "because reasons"
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Love it.Someone took the dating sim episode of Gravity Falls and did this.
mixed feelings
Up until two days ago I thought the show was a spiritual successor to Twin Peaks. I think the name gave me that impressions somehow? I... uhh, don't pay much attention to TV, lol.
Yes, yes you do. It's fantastic.
I'm going for John and Hasley clones either stored somewhere for a rainy day or Librarian magic then memory transfers. Young human Cortana and John live the good life after saving the galaxy.
Hasley righting her wrongs, giving John a real life and Cortana the chance to be the person she could never be.
I really need to get on Halo more. Here I am, reading reviews for some HG Gunpla kits I need for a kitbash, and here comes motherfucking Prinz Eugn circa 2010 talkin' bout this Tallgeese III EW model. You're calling me back.
Are there other 1/144 Tallgeese kits? Preferably the original or III.
For a second I thought I walked into a Gundam thread over in OT Community.
Also the EW models are the shit.
Prinz Eugn
Member
Kaos! Sorry... my other, other hobby. You should probably PM if you want to know more, I could walltext about building Tallgeese kits...
There are only the original Wing kits for the Tallgeese at 1/144, plus the Endless Waltz version which uses the original kit for almost everything but includes a new flexible torso (for the blowing up MOIII pose). You can build any of the Tallgeeses from the EW kit (same for the 1/00 Kit).
Unfortunately they are all very shitty compared to HGUC kits, or even other HG kits. Depending on what you need it might even make more sense to rip parts off one of the action figures.
B-Club had a resin "detail up" set for the EW model but I'm not sure if you can even find it anymore, and they would probably cost more than ten times what the models do.
GringoSuave89
Banned
The way this season has been going, it is definitely a kid version of Twin Peaks. So good.
As for the Chief/Cortana thing, it's pretty whatever. I'd like them to keep her dead, but I doubt that'll happen. On the brightside, 343 is trying to expand the roster of characters when they finally retire/kill off MC. I just hope Locke is more of a success than Palmer (who really needs a rewrite to improve. It's doable, just an uphill battle).
I had an interesting conversation with a friend about Halo 5's story. Here is what we have come up with:
Cortana's main program is currently on a save place with the Librarian. She will become the first human technology based AI, that will "live" forever.
ONI will find clues/proof of Cortana not being dead and they will withhold that information from Chief. Master Chief will then find it out/go crazy and be pissed at ONI. That's when he starts to search for more clues about Cortana on his own, without permission from ONI. ONI will send Agent Locke after him and he'll visit the Arbiter on Sanghelios to find out more about him (reveal trailer). When he has enough information, he will start chasing the Chief through the universe. Meanwhile, Chief will rescue Dr. Halsey from the Covenant Storm faction and together, they will rescue Cortana.
---
Thoughts?
Cortana's main program is currently on a save place with the Librarian. She will become the first human technology based AI, that will "live" forever.
ONI will find clues/proof of Cortana not being dead and they will withhold that information from Chief. Master Chief will then find it out/go crazy and be pissed at ONI. That's when he starts to search for more clues about Cortana on his own, without permission from ONI. ONI will send Agent Locke after him and he'll visit the Arbiter on Sanghelios to find out more about him (reveal trailer). When he has enough information, he will start chasing the Chief through the universe. Meanwhile, Chief will rescue Dr. Halsey from the Covenant Storm faction and together, they will rescue Cortana.
---
Thoughts?
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Is 343 still using the "Reclaimer Saga" moniker for Halo 5, or did they ditch that?
NobleGundam
Banned
I think they changed it to just the "Halo Saga" when mentioning tmcc.
Ok let's see it hotshot
GringoSuave89
Banned
Not sure. Been a while since I heard it used officially.
I always felt Halo 4 should be seen as a bridge, and the new trilogy goes Halo 5, 6, and 7. After all, Halo sure does love the number 7.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
I'm excited for another decade of Halo. I hope 343 can balance keeping true to the series' roots while also keeping relevant. Can't wait to get more Halo 5 beta info!
ElzarTheBam
Member
YourExWife
Member
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
cute cosplay elzar
Gnome Scat
Member
Poodlestrike
Banned
11/7
ElzarTheBam
Member
Just for the record I didn't actually create that.
But the responses slayed me.
But the responses slayed me.
Slightly Live
Dirty tag dodger
Lag has murdered many a Halo co-op session, especially Halo 3/ODST and trying to play games cross the ocean.
Sad times.
Reach and 4, the lag got better.
Sad times.
Reach and 4, the lag got better.
The games didn't.
ElzarTheBam
Member
Firefight. Endure. The real villain here was the netcode.
Getting better isnt hard to do when you set the bar so low. None of the Halo games come close to the smoothness of Destiny, which was my point over there.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Mix, please, no. Save us from having to look at that all the time. lol
ViewtifulJC
Banned
Had to put Mix on ignore, damn thing is terrifying yo
Similar threads
- Locked