K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
I can't wait to play on Sanctuary again. <3
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HaloGAF |OT: Anniversary| So fades the great harvest of our betrayal.
- Thread starter User 73706
- Start date
What? (I mean, it mostly consists of four groups of 7 notes (although I always hear the first part as eight, counting the opening tone), but what do you even mean by "on repeat"?)
Semi-ditto what?
That says more about CEA's overall execution just plain not aligning with the original than anything else.
There are all kinds of tracks on the Halo 1 soundtrack where the CEA version either works totally differently or doesn't work well at all. Mostly because Marty's composition *was* designed as exotic shenanigans with a low number of performers and some cheapo synth; hand that to a full orchestra, and it shouldn't be a shocker that people throw their arms in the air and do something totally different.
Not that I feel terribly inclined to defend Marty's larger compositions on his soundtracks; they do come off as awkward, though being presented like that isn't the core purpose of the music that went into them, so I find it hard to criticize the music of the game itself on those grounds.
(IMO most of the stuff in the Library Suite serves its purpose extremely well in-game.)
Biggest problem is forgetting we're talking about the music in a first person shooter video game. So of course you're going to have music or audio guys pick apart something completely different than people just playing the game. It's like Neil Degrasse Tyson watching Titanic and saying the stars are wrong in the night sky as the ship sinks.
Give me Marty's themes over whatever Davidge or even Jinnouchi are doing any day, even if they're poor, not using modern sound design techniques or what is currently "in" in the music design scene. Whether that's nostalgia, I don't know. Music is very subjective though.
One example is, the first two Harry Potter movies used almost the same John Williams suite he composed. The third switched it up, and then the remaining films barely used any or had their own music. And yet, play the Hedwig theme for anyone who's seen the movies, and they'll recognize it more than any theme from the other movies.
Orochinagis
Member
NobleGundam
Banned
That last game we just played got really laggy
Had fun though
Had fun though
I really loved Reach music and how it was used in the game. Really won over a lot of people who said Marty could only do one theme, he can never make music as good as CE/2/3. Same with ODST.
When I judge music of the games, I just go on how it sounded in game, what was going on in game and how the music impacted my mood etc.
There's a huge difference say doing a warthog run at the end of a game and hearing music, or sitting in your room with headphones listening to the full suite soundtrack that may or may not even be in the game or be used poorly.
When I judge music of the games, I just go on how it sounded in game, what was going on in game and how the music impacted my mood etc.
There's a huge difference say doing a warthog run at the end of a game and hearing music, or sitting in your room with headphones listening to the full suite soundtrack that may or may not even be in the game or be used poorly.
Sure, melodies are just a series of notes, but looking at things that way is like comparing paintings by saying "well, it's just a bunch of colors".
For example, in "To Galaxy" (not necessarily trying to single out this one track, it's just a good example), the four-note motif - It's not really the number of notes used in a melody that's the problem. It's that it doesn't go anywhere. It's an overstatement to really call it a melody, because it's not much of one. It's a quasi-melodic line that doesn't have much of any musical direction or development.
Compare that to the Halo title theme. The "monk theme" actually ends by around 40 seconds in, at which point the second (also iconic) theme takes over and is developed. Multiple musical motifs show up in that piece that also appear later throughout the soundtrack.
This seems like a pretty poor excuse for taking one generic melodic line and repeating it over and over and over again and then layering some other stuff on top of it as an excuse for "development". If the only way you can make a melody memorable is by repeating it a hundred times, you're doing it wrong.
Well, now we're going to start getting into discussion about what makes music memorable, and I'm not sure we'd get anywhere. So I don't know - all I can say is that Marty's music is almost universally identifiable by most gamers, and Davidge's isn't. And I don't think it's because his music has been around longer. It didn't take 10 years for the themes from the first Halo to become memorable - I knew them from the first time I beat the game, and most everyone else did too. Same for Halo 2.
In contrast, I highly doubt anyone is going to remember Davidge's Halo 4 music 10 years down the line. Why? Because hardly anyone can remember it now.
Honestly, I'm actually not really sure what your main problem with Marty's music is. Are you criticizing them on a musical basis, or are you criticizing them on a more technical basis? Your reply makes it sounds like you have issues with the fact that it "sounded" low budget, not just with the actual musical content.
Personally, I don't see how that really has anything to do with the musical quality of a composition. The fact is that someone could arguably create an 8bit soundtrack that is more musically inspired by someone with a full live orchestra and state of the art sound design. (in fact, I'm sure you could find some examples of this very thing in video game music) IMO, Marty achieved way more with cheap synths, drum tracks, and strings than Davidge accomplished with the full orchestra.
Again, not really sure what you're trying to say here, so maybe I'm misunderstanding. (also... Halo 2 was terrible in terms of musical content? whaaa? Halo 2 had some of the best tracks in the entire series, both melodic and atmospheric)
All in all, I guess I'll just have to agree to disagree, man. We both clearly have our preferences, and debating musical quality and worth (and what's more "memorable") can be a murky discussion. (I'd prefer not to start analyzing Davidge's and Marty's music track by track, lol)
Orochinagis
Member
The music in Reach was perfect in most of the levels, Ashes is a perfect example of how Marty did something completely new in action FPS enviroment because you can heard it in several levels as an echo of an inevitable fate as the players know what will happen to Reach.
lizardwizarding
Neo Member
I'm a music guy, and I don't think Speedy knows what he's talking about quite honestly!
Reach and ODST handily had the strongest soundtracks. Halo 4 is a contrived, apathetic, indecisive mess. I found it incredibly amateur actually and I dig Davidges' other work and his production skills but the dude can't score a videogame for shit.
I thought it was great !
have you heard Revival, Belly of the beast, awakening, Legacy, Atonement, etc... In my opinion, its one of the best OST from Halo. The only thing I missed was the lack of the original tunes.
lizardwizarding
Neo Member
I played the game and own the soundtrack. I think the second disc of remixes is far better than the actual original orchestrations. It's a competent score but I don't find it remarkable or nuanced at all. Marty had eclectic and interesting phrasing which gave his themes a deep sense of an original and alien place (unlike Davidge's heavily borrowed themes and motifs).
I think the music itself is really good however I do agree with those saying it wasn't integrated that well into the game.
4 didn't really have that many moments where the music really added to the scene making it more memorable. It was a poor soundtrack but I thought the music was great.
4 didn't really have that many moments where the music really added to the scene making it more memorable. It was a poor soundtrack but I thought the music was great.
lizardwizarding
Neo Member
The moment you crash and look around and then walk out and see the floating structures right by the Warthog are the only I can think of. Possibly the part leading up to the Pelican section as well. Every other section the themes were buried or mastered away to the point where you could take that score and sub-plant it over any year 0-600 A.D war movie and wouldn't be able to make any distinction.
User 73706
Banned
I was just throwing his hyperbolic "to galaxy is only 4 notes" crap back at him.
And I agree, the Library Suite does a good job of backing the actual encounters in-game and CEA tried adding a few recurring melodies into the mix, but if we're going by sheer "memorability" then it has a harder time holding its own weight.
I'm in agreement that we have different tastes when it comes to music, and while Davidge didn't necessarily nail the Halo feel on his first try it still came out pretty strong. I think the evolving chord progressions that explode into more bombastic riffs at the end turned out pretty well, like with what you see in Belly of the Beast, Nemesis, Revival, etc. I'm not going to start going track-by-track either because we can't really statistically way "marty has X more memorable notes than davidge's Y," and on top of that Davidge is also being backed pretty substantially by Kazuma Jinnochi in-game.
I will say though, if you haven't already, check out how they integrate the music in Halo 4's terminals. Actually syncing the media to the music and not trying to get it to fit during in-game encounters goes a long way, and has my favorite implementation of Revival so far.
As far as lasting impact goes, I think this is another one of those situations where we also still need to give 343 a chance in putting out other games with more music because, well, we're comparing one game fed through the proverbial paper shredder of focus groups and further diluted with a ton of outsourcing compared to a major endeavor mostly done in-house along the lines of the Halo 3 or Halo Reach.
I think part of this isn't really Davidge's fault, or Jinnochi's. I mean, think about it. The entire game is focusing on the Chief-Cortana relationship and the entire experience is more grounded in humanity regardless of whatever megastructures you end up on, so of course it's going to sound a little more like Human Music than some of the eccentrically-arranged ambient-meets-aggressive scoring that Marty put out.
lizardwizarding
Neo Member
I think that's a cop-out honestly. All the militaristic arrangements are the worst ones in the game. Sure the production is great, but who cares about pristine competent arrangements? It wasn't interesting and was fairly generic. I'm not saying there isn't any redeeming aspects to the score -- I have some vested jams in there, but they're segments of movements, and that's like saying you like a song because that one chorus is alright.
edit- On second thought listening to it again now, it's probably not worth making a exhaustive time-stamped write-up about it. I still think small segments of it are pretty good and a good amount of it is inoffensiveness but there's some really annoying progression changes and missed opportunities to naturally extend out sections to their conclusion that are passed up. That coupled with a tonal shift that doesn't do itself favors all of the time and it just comes off as a really sterile, well-made but disappointing thing for me. The actual mastering in the game is what ruined it for me though while playing, it gets buried and elements are toned down or outright missing and it comes off as really un-impactful at times.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
Sweet, I just got one, too. I think we're XBL friends already, but if not I'll add you. I'll mostly be playing BF4, Titanfall, and eventually Destiny.
K
kittens
Unconfirmed Member
You're weird.
RIP in peace MobileGAF
Or my phone just sucks
That looks really beautiful. Wish we could have this kind of stuff on consoles.
--
So I think that Halo theme will be back in some way for 5. The monks are definitely back after how much they've been in lately. Has it been confirmed yet whether or not Davidge is coming back for 5 as lead or will Jinnouchi be stepping in? I wonder if Marty really would come back to work on Halo. He and Kazuma could probably make some magic together.
I remember that little piece that played when Chief looked at his ruined Cortana chip at the end of the "Halo Xbox One" teaser. Was short but sweet. The more recent stuff seems to have been mostly monks which is awesome because starting up Halo 4 for the first time and hearing that tribal "wailing" killed the mood more than I thought possible for an opening theme. That's not Halo. That's... I don't know what that is.
You're upset about the Gungoose??
User 73706
Banned
343 shot themselves in the foot by making the Mongoose more accessible to players by strapping a gun on it, it's absolutely in no way an attempt to consolidate and balance portions of the sandbox to make sure people actually enjoy their game instead of just leaving it to the niche goosetage-ers that'll take it and rely on high aim assist and explosives to fly around and pick people off. Halo culture is being defiled, and honor and shame are huge parts of it (trust me, I'm an expert).
Should have made a scarab gun goose. Or a sword goose.Ah, I understand now.
They should have made a SplaserGoose:
Nirvana
Member
Baby Chopper. This I can get behind.
I eagerly await the fuel rod cannon armed ghost.They should have made a SplaserGoose:
Ragnarok Flames
Banned
I stand by what i said. Strapping SMGs or SAWs to a mongoose takes away the Risk vs Reward factor that the goose had in earlier games.
its a light recon vehicle. its meant to get players into enemy base quickly and out again. that speed coming at the expense of firepower. Whats the risk now that the Goose has guns on it?
person A sees that and decides that the driver wont need any help in Exfil, and leaves them to their own devices.
Person B sees the goose, gets on and charges blindly into battle because "hey, its got guns now"
Say Person B is in Enemy base, and just attempting to kill whatever moves; Person C gets the flag/bomb/what have you and gets on the goose. Person B just continues to kill.
User 73706
Banned
I don't think they're trying to make the goose a killing machine so much as they are giving it a little boost up to Ghost-tier.
Ragnarok Flames
Banned
But its not a ghost. they occupy two separate niches in the sandbox. I mean by that logic, put a passenger seat on the ghost.
Please dont
Enter The 36 Chambers
Member
This is crap advice. But don't play alone. Even having one person in a party makes a huge difference. Playing alone isn't viable in halo anymore.
In halo 2 you could play high level team slayer and you had a high chance of getting decent team mates, people cared about their ranks. In turn team work and communication was just another tool to use towards winning.
Now winning and losing doesn't mean anything to other players so you will get "bad" team mates.
People won't try as hard unless they care about the outcome of the game. Halo 2 had the perfect storm of everyone having a mic, no party chat, a decent ranking system etc.
In halo 2 you could play high level team slayer and you had a high chance of getting decent team mates, people cared about their ranks. In turn team work and communication was just another tool to use towards winning.
Now winning and losing doesn't mean anything to other players so you will get "bad" team mates.
People won't try as hard unless they care about the outcome of the game. Halo 2 had the perfect storm of everyone having a mic, no party chat, a decent ranking system etc.
Seems more like the Revenant(?) now with firepower + passenger.
I don't get it, I thought the 'goose was there as a choice versus the hog (firepower vs speed). Giving it a gun seems weird, like giving the ghost a sidecar as Ragnarok says.
I hear you, I was shit at Halo 2 (I charged about with SMGs and didn't take it seriously :S ) but in Halo 3 I was slightly less shit and playing ranked Slayer alone was sweet. Everyone called out to each other, games were often tense and it was great fun.
Then party chat came along and everyone stopped talking then Reach/Halo 4 came along and everyone stopped caring. Bleh.
Poodlestrike
Banned
The Warthog is still slower and more heavily armed, though. It also offers better protection for the passengers. The dichotomy is still there, but it's not so severe as to make being stuck with the 'goose a big deal.
Orochinagis
Member
Ah, I understand now.
They should have made a SplaserGoose:
Put some Halo 1 magnuns instead, best vehicle ever.
They should bring this bad boy back:
I can't wait to see what this looks like in the new graphics
Now we're talking. I've used that more than the Mongoose in any of its games.They should bring this bad boy back:
I don't think the difference between the 'hog and 'goose is too severe, I thought it was balanced pretty well tbh.
They should bring this bad boy back:
Yes! I forgot about the Spectre.
I think maybe a dozen people posting in this thread play Halo, but I'll be there.
Leaving aside 343 and especially Bungie's horrible misuse of the FRG, a "heavy ghost" would be an interesting vehicle. The power is at least partially balanced by the fact you could just snipe the Grunt out of it at well.
NobleGundam
Banned
Mongoose + Rail Gun + Propipe = Gungoose pro
Worst name ever
Nice one! I only have Titanfall at the moment, but I'll be getting Destiny for sure as well.
Haha yeah to be honest I barely play Halo any more myself. Stuck with 4 for as long as I could, but I just wasn't enjoying it too much. The Master Chief Collection has me pretty pumped though, so I'll definitely be playing that a lot.
A commonly held assumption. This test isn't the most scientific method but it clearly proves the Warthog is much faster than a Goose.
Goose just feels faster when driving and may handle better over rough terrain.