lol, yes the games in which scum won are extremely good examples of HOW NOT TO DO IT! #scumtell
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Harry Potter [Mafia] |OT| Yer a werewolf, Arry
- Thread starter SalvaPot
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lol, yes the games in which scum won are extremely good examples of HOW NOT TO DO IT! #scumtell
Just cause MGS town took a fake decoy reveal hook, line, and sinker doesn't mean we have to throw the baby out with the bath water. It would be an exaggeration to say the town lost because of a day 1 lynch.
Hyperactivity
Banned
yeah, the game where I figured out you were scum and easy suspicious of Palmer due to votes is a good example
people ignore votes, and they're stupid for it. votes are 290% the best way to find scum minus actual pre (sometimes even better than prs)
fuck your scum tells and scum reads, that means nothing. you always want votes to look at
election I referred to day 2, when palmers post suspecting me shifted the way I played that day
plus no one really looked at the votes. splinter was legitimately absent, but cornbro ended up not voting for me
town lost those games because town never looked at the votes
Blargonaut
Banned
yo
There's like, 28 of us
I mean, 1/28, an early Miller loss isn't that bad a loss, numbers-wise
Remove that doubt early, right
Just sayin'
There's like, 28 of us
I mean, 1/28, an early Miller loss isn't that bad a loss, numbers-wise
Remove that doubt early, right
Just sayin'
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
I missed ya, buddy.
Anyway, I'm all about the Day One lynch and always will be. I've played in two GAF games so far, and both times the events on this day provided solid evidence for the identity of some scum. I was too blind to see it in Cthulhu, but I won't make that mistake again.
In short, Day One is potentially the most damning day of them all, but the reasons why won't become clear until later in the game. Slip-ups only happen with pressure, and there's no pressure if we all agree to hold hands and let scum make the first move.
Burbeting's claim sounds legit.
TheGoddamn
Member
I never liked Snape; even if he's on our side, he's still a git. Let's drown him in shampoo.
Maybe there was something to my "killing Burb" joke, too, once I separate it from the flavor (Snape as Miller really is a great choice) and outside knowledge of Burb.
Vote: Burbeting
Conversely, D1 can also the most exonerating day, which is why it's important for participation now to be just as high as it is on days "when things actually happen". Things don't happen unless we act.
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
This post.
EVERYBODY.
THIS POST.
Again, a little meta discussion. In the Cthulhu game, my proudest moment was building the case against Timeaisis at the very tail end of Day Four, and eliminating the Cult of Cthulhu with his lynch. How did I do that? I analyzed the votes from the first two days and found two names that stuck out. One of those names was Time.
And in the GAFia game, at the end of Day One I narrowly escaped a lynch with four votes on me. Those four votes were the entire scum team. I was dead by the time I realized it, and when things were getting down to the wire I was becoming unbelievably frustrated that nobody in the game was talking about it.
If there's one lesson I can impart to be an effective Town player, it's this: votes don't lie. They're the strongest weapon in Town's arsenal. Stronger than a Cop, stronger than a Doctor. This isn't a game about power roles. It's a game of logic.
MagnumBoy20xx
Neo Member
This is very true. Even though I 'm new to playing, my observations of the other games have shown that in the end logic and votes tend to be the final nail in the coffin for scum.
With that said, we already have one voter for burb, who do you think we should pursue?
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Failing something exceptional I'm going to
VOTE: Burbeting
simply because a) if he's lying then we're storing up trouble and b) if he isn't at the end of the day a role which is not exactly pro-town is removed from the confusion. I mean, if I have sufficient reason to suspect someone strongly enough that I weight that more than just cleaning up town around the edges as per D1 norm then I'll swing with that, but until then this will do.
VOTE: Burbeting
simply because a) if he's lying then we're storing up trouble and b) if he isn't at the end of the day a role which is not exactly pro-town is removed from the confusion. I mean, if I have sufficient reason to suspect someone strongly enough that I weight that more than just cleaning up town around the edges as per D1 norm then I'll swing with that, but until then this will do.
On Day 1 we don't really pursue anyone, just vote for someone if they are inactive or give you reason to suspect them.
On that note:
VOTE: Flame_AC
Just because I want to have a vote on someone right now.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
You'll need highlight tags, then.
You are putting words in my mouth. Hyper claimed the scum wins are good examples of a D1 lynch. And I wholeheartedly disagree, because scum won - q.e.d.
As I said I'm still weighing the options and at least this argument does not convince me at all.
Why is it going to be different this time around? I know YOU will look at the votes, as I will do, but the vibe of "yeah, let's lynch someone for the sake of lynching (who cares about vote patterns anyway...)" is strong. With a no lynch we may give scum an option to act, but our power roles can act as well. The chance of hitting scum is minimal, losing a vanilla or PR far more likely. It's now obviously all about trusting the usefulness of vote patterns.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
The more material scum have to put forward, the more difficult it is for them to remain consistent as the day goes on. If anyone tries to No Lynch today, I will do my hardest to lynch them over the next few days as it is a profoundly anti-town move.
Just lettin' y'all know.
Just lettin' y'all know.
Blargonaut
Banned
Good to be back
I've heel-turned on my Day 1 stance quite quickly, but re: Snape?
sry, but the way I sees it
VOTE: Burbeting
Nakatomi Plaza belongs to the muggles
Lone_Prodigy
Member
I think voting patterns are a bit revisionist. Scum generally know how to vote strategically.
However, you can't analyze voting patterns without bodies, especially a scum body. This is why a lynch is preferred. Scum will bus, but they will always be reluctant to cast a vote unless the situation looks dire.
The situation in Gafia was an exception, not the rule, in my opinion.
However, you can't analyze voting patterns without bodies, especially a scum body. This is why a lynch is preferred. Scum will bus, but they will always be reluctant to cast a vote unless the situation looks dire.
The situation in Gafia was an exception, not the rule, in my opinion.
And if you keep threatening everyone who doesn't play after your fiddle, I will do my hardest to lynch you over the next few days as it is a profoundly anti-town move.
Just lettin' u know.
While 'voting to apply pressure' is an A+ strategy in my books I am going to hold off on mine for a little bit. I don't see anything worth jumping on at this time and I prefer to wait until more people have chimed in so we can get a better mix here. The game started only 4 or so hours ago, I want to give some people time to get their feet wet and let some new folks voice their opinions.
Also, I fully support a Day 1 lynch in these games. It forces people to act and make hard stances, something we can use later on as a detector for scum vs. not-scum. If we end this Day and someone has a No Lynch or doesn't have a vote down I will take a good hard look at you on Day 2 and I think everyone else should as well.
If we're going to catch the Death Eaters we are going have to take some risks that will ultimately lead us towards their capture. It sucks for whoever gets lynched on Day 1 but we need that info and, as some of the other games showed, lynching Scum Day 1 is always a possibility.
Also, I fully support a Day 1 lynch in these games. It forces people to act and make hard stances, something we can use later on as a detector for scum vs. not-scum. If we end this Day and someone has a No Lynch or doesn't have a vote down I will take a good hard look at you on Day 2 and I think everyone else should as well.
If we're going to catch the Death Eaters we are going have to take some risks that will ultimately lead us towards their capture. It sucks for whoever gets lynched on Day 1 but we need that info and, as some of the other games showed, lynching Scum Day 1 is always a possibility.
It's pretty hard to counter your vote-claims, I admit that I might be voting myself, if I weren't me. But still, even if I were lying, there wpuld still be most likely a Severus Snape in the game, and he is not most likely Scum, even if I can say this only because of the theme of this game. But if I was a scum, who was claiming Miller, I should have used some other role, that is far more unlikely to show up in the normal player-roster (maybe Igor Karkaroff, for example), since the real Snape would know for certainly I was a lying scum. And well.. that would basically mean a scum was giving himself on a silver platter right at the start of the game.
I agree, that Day 1 lynch is for the best, since voting gives us most information out of everything.
I agree, that Day 1 lynch is for the best, since voting gives us most information out of everything.
#FalseHopeLeader #LynchCrab #THUNDERDOME #NeverForget
Rats Off To Ya
Banned
Which is something to consider when analyzing the votes. It's not as simple as, "they voted together, they're both scum." Sometimes that's true, but sometimes you have to examine how and why the votes are spread out. It's an art as much as it's a science. But the answers are always there, if you know what to look for.
Okay, so, going out on a limb here and saying Burb is telling the truth about his claim I want to know why those who have votes on him right now think he is a choice lynch candidate. Snape being a Miller makes a good amount of sense ( almost too much sense.. ) but I don't see any real reason as to why Scum would fake a claim like this, especially this early.
Voldemort.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Don't do a Danganronpa. Lynching me (or anyone else) because I (they) know how to play qualifies as a Bad Move. I capitalize to emphasize how Bad it is.
Arkos
Nose how to spell and rede to
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Also as a side-note I disagree re: "votes are everything". They're occasionally useful, but unless you're playing Babbies' First Mafia, scum will not be afraid to bus. Hell, I've known scum who used RNGs to determine their vote so they could be sure it would be patternless. This isn't a logic game, although logic has a small and useful part. It's a game of being able to read people. Votes wouldn't be useful if people didn't have to explain them; it's the justifications that accompany votes that are useful more so than the votes themselves.
Blargonaut
Banned
My Patreon is a squid
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Is it a kid now?
Blargonaut
Banned
shhhh
Blargonaut
Banned
Blargonaut
Banned
so who is Snape?
I am Snape. I was just going through the hypothetical possibility, where I would have lied about this role.
You answer this: Why would I lie that I am Snape, when there would most likely be a real Snape out there?
Blargonaut
Banned
What if I'm Snape
I thought that's kind of implied for most people's position of votes hiding the truth. Even for scum using rng to determine their votes can be useful, because that's not how village aligned roles typically do it. I mean sure the scum will come up with some fake logic, but the more that happens the more difficult it gets to hide the burden of their extra knowledge.
Which basically is what I feel day 1 lynching comes down to. Night phase typically favors scum in terms of impacting the game (maybe less so with such a PR heavy game), and day represents the towns chance to wield the influence of its majority.
What would happen if Blarg claimed Snape: I know I am Snape, but if you would claim that, we would have two Snape-claimers, and most likely one of them would by lynched. If the lynched one is Snape, the other one would get lynched next, because said person lied. If the first lynched one was the liar, that situation would end in that.
Blargonaut
Banned
*checks role PM*
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
No, I agree completely. I'm just saying that, e.g., "all three scum we know about voted for this person, so they must be innocent" or vice versa "none of the three scum we knew about voted for this person, so they must be scum" arguments hold very little weight if the opposing scum team is even moderately competent. This is probably pretty obvious to most people, but I just want to stress it so we're all on the same page. The main reason we get people to vote is not to see what they vote, but to see why they vote.
Blargonaut
Banned
yep
Lord of Castamere
Member
Okay woke up and caught it. So one thing I wanted to say is Day 1 voting isn't just a strategic move. The numbers usually add up and prove that its beneficial to town statistically. Depending on how many kills per night there are. So 1 kill might seem pointless now(even though it assuredly isnt for several reasons) but late game that choice could prove invaluable.
Blubbertings choice seems a little convenient. Ties to get it out asap to curb suspicion, which is a scum tell imo. Then again fake claiming Snape is very risky because Snape is likely in the game. Without a real Snape to call him on it, I'm forced to believe his story for now.
Blubbertings choice seems a little convenient. Ties to get it out asap to curb suspicion, which is a scum tell imo. Then again fake claiming Snape is very risky because Snape is likely in the game. Without a real Snape to call him on it, I'm forced to believe his story for now.
Blargonaut
Banned
Can art be quantified
It also feels like a weird thing to do on Day 1. It's super early and gives Scum a chance to be caught earlier than normal.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I'm plausibly sure either a) the flavours are non-standard (i.e., no Harry/Hermione/obvious characters) or b) mafia have been given safe claims. It's the only way a game this big will work. Otherwise no mafia will dare claim a major character for fear of a counter-claim, which means 'Lynch people who claim unimportant characters' becomes an easy way to win. I think this game will be designed so that's not a strategy.
Zippedpinhead
Member
If we kill burb, and he flips Snape AND is not scum, how do we classify his role. What job would the scum have that would make Snape actually beneficial for town?
Or is the miller role purely a town F-U like burb postulated in his reveal post? At least at this point I can get behind a burbeting vote.
I am going to hold off for a day though. It's day 1, no need to throw anyone under a bus yet.
Or is the miller role purely a town F-U like burb postulated in his reveal post? At least at this point I can get behind a burbeting vote.
I am going to hold off for a day though. It's day 1, no need to throw anyone under a bus yet.
So are you counter claiming Snape here or not, I really can't say, since your posts are not as direct as some other posters.
Biggest problem for me is that even if Blarg counter-claims Snape, I couldn't 100% say if he was scum, since he keeps making the weirdest of claims sometimes, like in NX when his fake roleclaim gave the scum an alibi, even when Blarg was not a scum.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
I agree. My vote is on him because while I have no more reason to suspect him than anyone else, he is still marginally more lynchable because even given equal scum:town ratios to everyone else his town actualization would be less useful. It's not a very strong vote, but I firmly believe in the importance of voting early and voting often.
Alright back from work, and I must say, I am happily surprised by the amount of useful discussion going on right now. Usually, the first few hours/days of a day 1 are just a bunch of useless fluff that doesn't help us to catch scum, but we have only just begun and we already have a lot of topics to discuss and see how people react on!
Lynch VS no lynch: I am heavily in favor for a lynch day 1, it gives us voting and behavioral patterns of everyone that when combined with the lynch target flip and future flips, could tell us a lot. Sure, it is hardly a silver bullet that will give us the complete scum team on a silver platter like in Gafia (again, Rats, sorry that we didn't noticed that
, but it sure gives us a lot more than if it was to become pretty clear we would go to a no lynch today. Without the risk of one of their own getting lynched, Scum would have a lot less pressure and could play a lot more free, and we need to avoid that. Ideally, we will have 2 or 3 lynch candidates that are very close together in votes, so that if one of them is a scum member, scum will hope they can still safe him/her and vote for the other person instead of just a straight up bus.
Burbeting: Miller is a sucky ass role to have, ask Cabot about that. Now, it could be a way for a scum burb to hide, but I am not willing to lynch him just for that. Sure, his role is anti-town, but Burb has proven to be a VERY GOOD town player, maybe even the best, so I think he could be useful for us even with that anti town role. And if he is scum in hiding, he will probably slip up later in the game and we lynch him then based on those events combined with his miller claim, but I will not vote for him purely for the miller claim.
Blarg: Blarg is an enigma, because the way he plays may be very interesting, it is also often quite anti town. He is incredibly hard to read and he often focuses discussion on him, which if he is town is bad for us. The problem is that if we finally are witnessing the mythical "scum blarg", he would probably play....exactly the same. If he then was afraid to get lynched and stopped doing the riddles etc., that would only put more suspicion on him and get him lynched sooner. Blarg is a huge presence in every game he plays in, but he is also incredibly hard to read.
Lynch VS no lynch: I am heavily in favor for a lynch day 1, it gives us voting and behavioral patterns of everyone that when combined with the lynch target flip and future flips, could tell us a lot. Sure, it is hardly a silver bullet that will give us the complete scum team on a silver platter like in Gafia (again, Rats, sorry that we didn't noticed that
, but it sure gives us a lot more than if it was to become pretty clear we would go to a no lynch today. Without the risk of one of their own getting lynched, Scum would have a lot less pressure and could play a lot more free, and we need to avoid that. Ideally, we will have 2 or 3 lynch candidates that are very close together in votes, so that if one of them is a scum member, scum will hope they can still safe him/her and vote for the other person instead of just a straight up bus. Burbeting: Miller is a sucky ass role to have, ask Cabot about that
. Now, it could be a way for a scum burb to hide, but I am not willing to lynch him just for that. Sure, his role is anti-town, but Burb has proven to be a VERY GOOD town player, maybe even the best, so I think he could be useful for us even with that anti town role. And if he is scum in hiding, he will probably slip up later in the game and we lynch him then based on those events combined with his miller claim, but I will not vote for him purely for the miller claim. Blarg: Blarg is an enigma, because the way he plays may be very interesting, it is also often quite anti town. He is incredibly hard to read and he often focuses discussion on him, which if he is town is bad for us. The problem is that if we finally are witnessing the mythical "scum blarg", he would probably play....exactly the same. If he then was afraid to get lynched and stopped doing the riddles etc., that would only put more suspicion on him and get him lynched sooner. Blarg is a huge presence in every game he plays in, but he is also incredibly hard to read.