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[Trojita]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/features/2017-08-31/a-hard-rain-and-a-hard-lesson-for-houston

There's a discussion going around right now about how Houston's city planning, or lack thereof, made damage from the storm and flood than they needed to be. The author of the piece was on NPR discussing most of the main points of the article.

The basic gist of it is that Houston is the only major city in the United States without zoning laws. If you want to build a skyscraper, you can build it wherever you want and as tall as you want. There was unchecked growth with little to no planning or regulation. "Green areas" that would help absorb water disappeared.

The Category 4 hurricane that hung around as a stationary tropical storm punished greater Houston with rainfall measured in feet, not inches. No city could have withstood Harvey without serious harm, but Houston made itself more vulnerable than necessary. Paving over the saw-grass prairie reduced the ground’s capacity to absorb rainfall. Flood-control reservoirs were too small. Building codes were inadequate. Roads became rivers, so while hospitals were open, it was almost impossible to reach them by car.

Attitude is partly to blame. Michael Talbott spent 35 years with the Harris County Flood Control District trying to protect Houston, mainly by seeking funds for widening drainage channels and bayous. But he resisted the notion that more drastic measures such as preserving green space and managing growth were required. Shortly before retiring as executive director in 2016, Talbott gave an interview to ProPublica and the Texas Tribune in which he disputed the effect of global warming and said conservationists were antidevelopment. “They have an agenda … their agenda to protect the environment overrides common sense,” he said. Talbott, now retired, couldn’t be reached for comment.

It’s not only Houston that’s hands-off. Texas, despite being among the states most vulnerable to storms, has one of the nation’s most relaxed approaches to building codes, inspections, and other protections. It’s one of only four states along the Gulf and Atlantic coasts with no mandatory statewide building codes, and it has no statewide program to license building inspectors. Corpus Christi uses codes that reflect national standards, minus the requirement that homes be built 1 foot above expected 100-year-flood levels. But Nueces County, which encompasses Corpus Christi, has no residential building code.

Houston has a clay soil, it does not absorb water well at all.

Houston’s clay soil doesn’t absorb water quickly, so when a hard rain comes, much of it runs off to pool elsewhere. Authorities have made matters worse by allowing developers to pave over much of Harris County and beyond; it’s spent its flood-control budget on culverts, canals, drains, levees, berms, pumps, and other “gray” (as in concrete) infrastructure to flush the water away—but that hasn’t been enough. It builds new roads with curbs and gutters designed to channel water away from buildings. Roads make good sluices in an ordinary storm, but in Harvey they couldn’t shed their water fast enough and became rivers.

The consequence of loose or nonexistent codes is that storm damage is often worse than need be. “Disasters don’t have to be devastating,” says Eleanor Kitzman, who was Texas’ state insurance commissioner from 2011 to 2013. She now runs a company called MyStrongHome that helps homeowners upgrade their homes to qualify for lower homeowners’ insurance premiums. “We can’t prevent the event, but we can mitigate the damage.”

One of the major barriers to any kind of regulation progress is the homebuilders lobby in Texas that are very powerful.

Any measure introduced in Texas that increases costs draws opposition from homebuilders, a powerful group in state and local politics. At the end of this year’s state legislative session, the Texas Association of Builders posted a document highlighting its success in killing legislation it didn’t like. That included a bill that would have let cities require residential fire sprinklers. Another would have given counties with 100,000 people or more authority over zoning, land use, and oversight of building standards—something the builders’ group called “onerous.”

The FEMA administrator even proposed that cities/states that don't take proper precaution should not be "rewarded" with tax payer money.

There’s a glimmer of a possibility that Harvey could lead to a détente between environmentalists and Trump administration officials in charge of disaster response. Some of the codes the homebuilders blocked had been proposed by the Federal Emergency Management Agency, which is on the hook when homes collapse, flood, or wash away. In an interview before Harvey hit, FEMA Administrator William “Brock” Long expressed support for an Obama administration proposal to spur more local action on resilience, such as better building codes, if states want to keep getting first-dollar disaster relief from Washington. States that didn’t reduce their risks would have to cover a deductible before qualifying for federal aid. “I don’t think the taxpayer should reward risk,” Long told Bloomberg.

A look to the east could give an example to follow

Singapore could be a role model, says Michael Berkowitz, president of 100 Resilient Cities, a nonprofit founded by the Rockefeller Foundation. While its population has more than doubled since the 1980s, the city-state, which is in the path of monsoons, has increased to 46 percent from 35 percent the area of land with green cover, according to the government’s Centre for Liveable Cities.

Now of course this is a touchy subject. Some people think that a discussion of this kind is too soon. This isn't meant to distract or diminish the damage and arduous task ordinary Texans have in front of them. Please donate to a well regarded charity, one that is known to spend most of the donated money on victims, if you have the capitol to do so. Volunteer if you have the time and resources.

 

[Hobbles]

Dump 50" of rain on any major city and let's see how it fairs.

 

[Trojita]

Dump 50" of rain on any major city and let's see how it fairs.

That's the point. As far as damage goes, they would fair better. Way to not even engage with the subject at hand.

 

[Mammoth Jones]

Dump 50" of rain on any major city and let's see how it fairs.

Yea I don't know how you can engineer that. Hurricane Sandy sucked and it was nowhere close to that amount of rain.

 

[Linkstrikesback]

Dump 50" of rain on any major city and let's see how it fairs.

Even the thread title was too much to read, huh?

 

[ShdwDrake]

Dump 50" of rain on any major city and let's see how it fairs.

Read the OP smh.

 

[30yearsofhurt]

Dump 50" of rain on any major city and let's see how it fairs.

Tokyo might stand a chance. They have some massive drain infrastructure like you wouldn't believe.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/31/world/asia/japan-flood-tunnel/index.html

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/4112766.htm

 

[Trojita]

Yea I don't know how you can engineer that. Hurricane Sandy sucked and it was nowhere close to that amount of rain.

Sandy hit the densely populated north east in several states (remember that Canada was even damaged a lot), but it still only resulted in around a much lower total damage number of $71 Billion.

 

[TheCochese]

Tokyo might stand a chance. They have some massive drain infrastructure like you wouldn't believe.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/31/world/asia/japan-flood-tunnel/index.html

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/4112766.htm

Excuse me, no porn allowed.

 

[kamineko]

Dump 50" of rain on any major city and let's see how it fairs.

Well, you got the first post. Now what

 

[Dirtyshubb]

Even the thread title was too much to read, huh?

Lol

This is what happens when you get right wing politicians cutting red tape. *edit I realise it's blue held now* It's exactly what the Conservatives here in the UK are like and it likely helped cause the deaths of at least 100 people in the Grenfell Tower fire.

They are also salivating at the thought of leaving the EU since they are responsible for a lot of our protection laws.

You need to have regulations and rules otherwise businesses will do whatever the fuck they want and people always get hurt.

 

[#sorrynotsorry]

I'd wager Houston being built on a bayou had a greater effect than this. If you've been to Houston, you'll know that even without zoning, it's still basically zoned. Just because you can build a skyscraper anywhere doesn't mean there are skyscrapers everywhere.

Lol

This is what happens when you get right wing politicians cutting red tape.

Houston is blue.

 

[The Lamp]

Houstonians wear the lack of zoning laws like a badge of honor.

"it gives Houston personality! You'll never know what you'll find! A cool bar or specialty boutique could be around the corner, or a strip club or a daycare! Could be anything, really!"

Meanwhile Dallas citizens look down at Houston and think it's beyond ugly because of those things. Houston thinks it makes them eclectic. And so goes the everlasting war of culture between Dallas and Houston.

But Dallas would have weathered Harvey far better than Houston because of its better city planning.

 

[Dirtyshubb]

Houston is blue.

Well colour me (pun intended) surprised, I always thought it was red.

I forget how big America actually is and how much each state is split up.

 

[ahoyhoy]

Tokyo might stand a chance. They have some massive drain infrastructure like you wouldn't believe.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/31/world/asia/japan-flood-tunnel/index.html

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/4112766.htm

Shit is that Khazad Dum?

 

[The Lamp]

Well colour me (pun intended) surprised, I always thought it was red.

I forget how big America actually is and how much each state is split up.

No large city in Texas is red except for like Fort Worth I think. The suburbs are usually red though.

Houston is blue and the most racially diverse city in the US. The outlying suburbs of white oil job citizens hate it lmao

 

[Cosmo Clock 21]

Tokyo might stand a chance. They have some massive drain infrastructure like you wouldn't believe.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/31/world/asia/japan-flood-tunnel/index.html

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/4112766.htm

I played this area in Mirror's Edge

 

[Dirtyshubb]

No large city in Texas is red except for like Fort Worth I think. The suburbs are usually red though.

Houston is blue and the most racially diverse city in the US. The outlying suburbs of white oil job citizens hate it lmao

Very interesting, the more you know

 

[lazygecko]

The FEMA administrator even proposed that cities/states that don't take proper precaution should not be "rewarded" with tax payer money.

What does this mean exactly? That disaster victims should not receive as much aid as punishment for bad state policy?

 

[zelas]

The FEMA administrator even proposed that cities/states that don't take proper precaution should not be "rewarded" with tax payer money.

Especially those who balked at the idea of disaster relief for other states. I'm all for this. In areas where natural disasters are relatively common those governments shouldn't be building infrastructure as if they're at zero risk of natural disasters. It's a waste of money and its ruining the lives of people who have no clue what's going on. We're supposed to learn from history.

 

[One Eyed Willy]

Houston is blue and the most racially diverse city in the US. The outlying suburbs of white oil job citizens hate it lmao

It must have taken you really long time to question every white person around the Houston area to see how they felt.

 

[DarthWoo]

I know that against a hurricane it's only a pittance, but I really hate when I hear people whining about stormwater management taxes/fees and calling them "rain taxes." Well gee, what do you suppose will happen when everything is paved over and there is neither sufficient open space to absorb some of the stormwater nor sufficient drainage systems?

 

[Eidan]

I'm still stunned that Houston has no zoning laws. Like...what the hell do their city planners even do there?

 

[Blader]

Dump 50" of rain on any major city and let's see how it fairs.

You're not fooling anybody into thinking you read that entire article in the 60 seconds between the OP and your post. So why bother posting if you're not even reading what the thread is about?

 

[nitewulf]

Not "likely", assuredly from what I am reading. There basically has been no planning to drain rain water in the recent years (decades).

 

[this_guy]

I'm still stunned that Houston has no zoning laws. Like...what the hell do their city planners even do there?

Hey! We don't allow titty bars within like 500 feet of an elementary school I think. That's something.

 

[LegendofJoe]

The lack of building regulation is also THE reason why homes are affordable in Houston.

Obviously, there needs to be a reasonable balance struck between sustainable/safe development and allowing enough homes to be built to keep them affordable. When you go too far in one direction (San Fran versus Atlanta, Houston, etc.) there will be consequences.

 

[KojiKnight]

Houston is blue.

It is, but the state is red, and the state doesn't enforce any universal building code which is ridiculous. It's a failure on both levels as the state should have universal building codes and Houston on the city level for not doing so regardless.

(edit) To be clear, it's not a red or blue issue, it's a Texan issue.

 

[Man-is-Obsolete]

Houston is just a microcosm for the rest of the nation. Tax payers don't want to pay for things until it directly affects them. Even then some will argue there was nothing anyone can do and believe more tax cuts are in order.

Katrina and Sandy alone should have been enough to convince every coastal city to double down on infrastructure, but taxes and government have been made into the boogeyman.

 

[Line_HTX]

Hey! We don't allow titty bars within like 500 feet of an elementary school I think. That's something.

Or a ahem... toy store next to a giant mall, oh wait.

 

[Red]

It's worth reading ProPublica's story from last May:
https://projects.propublica.org/houston/

 

[Fuchsdh]

Especially those who balked at the idea of disaster relief for other states. I'm all for this. In areas where natural disasters are relatively common those governments shouldn't be building infrastructure as if they're at zero risk of natural disasters. It's a waste of money and its ruining the lives of people who have no clue what's going on. We're supposed to learn from history.

Yep. Especially if states and localities want to be ignorant about the effects of climate change, the country at large shouldn't be ponying up to help them not learn the same lessons each and every time. It's going to get out of control soon enough at this rate.

 

[Carpe Carnim]

FEMA and the NFIP are just as culpable. The fact that our flood protection programs subsidize construction in all manner of known floodzones, is a travesty.

It took Andrew for Floriduh to finally wise up and adopt State wind-codes and a standard building code. Maybe Texas will wise up as well, but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

[LegendofJoe]

Houston is just a microcosm for the rest of the nation. Tax payers don't want to pay for things until it directly affects them. Even then some will argue there was nothing anyone can do and believe more tax cuts are in order.

Katrina and Sandy alone should have been enough to convince every coastal city to double down on infrastructure, but taxes and government have been made into the boogeyman.

Most of the time the problem isn't the cities themselves. They usually do as much as they can to prepare for stuff like this, but money is limited. And when your state and national legislatures are controlled by people who live by the mantra of "penny wise, pound foolish" their isn't enough money to do what needs to be done.

 

[TyrantII]

Dump 50" of rain on any major city and let's see how it fairs.

No difference between 20 billion and 50 billion in damages!

Amirite?!

 

[Akuun]

Any measure introduced in Texas that increases costs draws opposition from homebuilders, a powerful group in state and local politics. At the end of this year's state legislative session, the Texas Association of Builders posted a document highlighting its success in killing legislation it didn't like. That included a bill that would have let cities require residential fire sprinklers. Another would have given counties with 100,000 people or more authority over zoning, land use, and oversight of building standards—something the builders' group called ”onerous."

Are you fucking shitting me? Once again, more lobbying against measures that save lives so that some fuckwads can save money?

 

[TyrantII]

The lack of building regulation is also THE reason why homes are affordable in Houston.

Obviously, there needs to be a reasonable balance struck between sustainable/safe development and allowing enough homes to be built to keep them affordable. When you go too far in one direction (San Fran versus Atlanta, Houston, etc.) there will be consequences.

This should read affordable up front.

Houses were plopped down cheap with good margins for everyone building them, but they're not so cheap now that homeowners a left with cleaning up this mess.

Even worse state and federal taxpayers are likely going to have to foot the bill. That's real money that developers basically leveraged and stole in the name of "cheap housing".

That's not cheap, it's a long con.

 

[Vyer]

The truth, as usually the case, is somewhere in the middle. There is absolutely an issue of planning, and politics, and the attitude of some of the officials ProPublica interviewed is unacceptable and damned unforgivable.

But it's also true that Harvey was powerfully devastating, and the pure weight of 50" of water getting dropped on top of you is an extreme level of damage no matter how you slice it. You look at what the storm did to those cities east of Houston, rural and coastal areas, and understand what a monster this was, and was one of the largest rain events in the history of the country.

Just a tragic and horrible situation on all fronts.

 

[Mashing]

Not surprised lobbyist fucked everything up. Can we just ban corporate lobbying? They only have their interests in heart and not the publics.

 

[Future]

Human nature at work. Don't do any work until you absolutely have to. If suffering from a freak event that planning could have prevented, blame the freak event more than yourself. Embrace being the victim and ignore prevention steps you could have taken

 

[Eidan]

Hey! We don't allow titty bars within like 500 feet of an elementary school I think. That's something.

Hahaha, just to be clear, I didn't mean to insinuate that Houston's planners don't do anything. The question was more about HOW they're able to do their job. I feel like it must be a nightmare.

 

[Steejee]

Weather Channel just had a guy on who's house flooded only 2 years ago and had just finished rebuilding, and now it's flooded again. That made me clench my jaw a bit...

 

[Carpe Carnim]

Weather Channel just had a guy on who's house flooded only 2 years ago and had just finished rebuilding, and now it's flooded again. That made me clench my jaw a bit...

If he had flood insurance and our Federal government wasn't dysfunctional, he would probably qualify Repetitive Loss dollars. But Trump is looking to gut grant money from NFIP's Mitigation programs.

SAD!

 

[Jeels]

Houstonians wear the lack of zoning laws like a badge of honor.

"it gives Houston personality! You'll never know what you'll find! A cool bar or specialty boutique could be around the corner, or a strip club or a daycare! Could be anything, really!"

Meanwhile Dallas citizens look down at Houston and think it's beyond ugly because of those things. Houston thinks it makes them eclectic. And so goes the everlasting war of culture between Dallas and Houston.

But Dallas would have weathered Harvey far better than Houston because of its better city planning.

Stay in Dallas.

We'd never know if Dallas would survive a storm like Harvey because it's several hundred miles away from the coast.

Also Dallas is an ugly and boring city.

 

[jmdajr]

No doubt we can do much better.

 

[MogCakes]

Houston's urban sprawl and complete neglect of urban planning has long been an issue. It was only a matter of time before it crumpled from a natural disaster.

 

[Earthbound64]

Dump 50" of rain on any major city and let's see how it fairs.

And for a follow-up post from this illustrious first-poster, we have...

...

...

Oh, wait...

 

[DarkJediKnight]

Tokyo might stand a chance. They have some massive drain infrastructure like you wouldn't believe.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/31/world/asia/japan-flood-tunnel/index.html

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/4112766.htm

I'll bet there's a Balrog down there as well.

 

[Stinkles]

Yesterday I discovered how Texas changed the law after the West, Texas chemical plant explosion. If you remember the town was flattened by an explosion caused because flammable chemical plants in Texas aren't required to have SPRINKLERS.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Fertilizer_Company_explosion

so they changed the law. Not sprinklers, no you still don't need them. No they changed the law so that citizens are no longer able to find out what chemicals are stored or manufactured in those places.

Texas.

 

[MogCakes]

Dallas is inland so its infrastructure and drainage systems would not be up to par for handling a hurricane. I guess people could take shelter on the massive highway exchange stacks to avoid flooding.