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[Oppo]

Yesterday I discovered how Texas changed the law after the West, Texas chemical plant explosion. If you remember the town was flattened by an explosion caused because flammable chemical plants in Texas aren't required to have SPRINKLERS.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Fertilizer_Company_explosion

so they changed the law. Not sprinklers, no you still don't need them. No they changed the law so that citizens are no longer able to find out what chemicals are stored or manufactured in those places.

Texas.

when I was an 8 year old boy, I took my first flight ever, to Texas (from Canada), to visit family. This was around Fort Worth.

while I was there, a relative took us to the drive-thru liquor store, in his convertible, and purchased a daiquari of some sort, and i remember thinking to myself, this place is really different.

I think most of the south wants to be a mix of Hong Kong, Moscow and Rapture.

 

[FullMetalx117]

I wonder if there is some data available that compares the economics of having a city planned like Houston and the damage caused by the flood.

Like does 20 billion in damage from this hurricane beat the 50 billion in revenue gain of no zoning? These numbers are made up but the point is that perhaps everyone knew but didn't care because there was more economic benefit than harm.

 

[studyguy]

NPR did a piece on it as well, its fucking crazy how much building was done on a literal flood plane next to a large body of water with 0 concern for open land that could absorb rainfall. They mentioned that some homes had racked up almost annual flood damage claims within the past decade.

Imagine living with the expectation that every year your home would be damaged by flood waters.

 

[Kthulhu]

Tokyo might stand a chance. They have some massive drain infrastructure like you wouldn't believe.

http://edition.cnn.com/2012/10/31/world/asia/japan-flood-tunnel/index.html

http://www.abc.net.au/catalyst/stories/4112766.htm

Damn Japan.

 

[Oppo]

Imagine living with the expectation that every year your home would be damaged by flood waters.

Venice

and now parts of Florida as well

all low lying islands

huge chunks of India

and China now that I think about it

...point is, we're there, or many are

 

[Kthulhu]

when I was an 8 year old boy, I took my first flight ever, to Texas (from Canada), to visit family. This was around Fort Worth.

while I was there, a relative took us to the drive-thru liquor store, in his convertible, and purchased a daiquari of some sort, and i remember thinking to myself, this place is really different.

I think most of the south wants to be a mix of Hong Kong, Moscow and Rapture.

I have never seen something like that here in Texas. It certainly isn't common.

 

[studyguy]

Venice

and now parts of Florida as well

all low lying islands

huge chunks of India

and China now that I think about it

...point is, we're there, or many are

The point is these homes were all built within the last decade. Not so much that it's some historical precedent set or rising waters. But newer homes built into sections where they're so prone to flooding that it's almost an annual occurrence.

 

[Stinkles]

NPR did a piece on it as well, its fucking crazy how much building was done on a literal flood plane next to a large body of water with 0 concern for open land that could absorb rainfall. They mentioned that some homes had racked up almost annual flood damage claims within the past decade.

Imagine living with the expectation that every year your home would be damaged by flood waters.

One home had been flooded 11 times in 12 years if I remember rightly.

 

[studyguy]

One home had been flooded 11 times in 12 years if I remember rightly.

It was definitely in the double digits which is fucking crazy, I can't imagine how that even impacts your home's net worth.

 

[Earthbound64]

I have never seen something like that here in Texas. It certainly isn't common.

I mean, the poster did say when they were 8.
For all we know, that might be 50 years ago.

 

[The Lamp]

It must have taken you really long time to question every white person around the Houston area to see how they felt.

It did. It took 19 years!
Relax, it's a joke.
But considering how conservative the suburbs are and considering I lived in them for 19 years, I'd say there's some truth to every joke.

 

[WedgeX]

Yeah this has unfortunately been a long-term concern about Houston. Sad that lobbyists and stubbornness in government potentially made Harvey that much more worse. With our climate continuing to change, hopefully others do not repeat the mistake. Although the governments of Houston and Texas had time to learn post-Katrina.

I wonder if there is some data available that compares the economics of having a city planned like Houston and the damage caused by the flood.

Like does 20 billion in damage from this hurricane beat the 50 billion in revenue gain of no zoning? These numbers are made up but the point is that perhaps everyone knew but didn't care because there was more economic benefit than harm.

I imagine the total costs of Harvey will actually outweigh the benefits of short-term economic growth. All that wealth, lost. What I could imagine is that people's value of short-term gains overriding long-term stability could be explored. And I believe it often is, although along retirement savings rather than disaster preparedness trade-offs. As with Katrina, I can see the well-off coming out basically neutral from this while most others come out substantially worse.

 

[Jeels]

It did. It took 19 years!
Relax, it's a joke.
But considering how conservative the suburbs are and considering I lived in them for 19 years, I'd say there's some truth to every joke.

How is that any different from the suburbs in the Dallas metroplex? Richardson reminds me of Stafford, Plano reminds me of Sugar Land. You have to get as far out to Mckinney and despite it being a suburb you are reaching Trump territory. The suburbs in all the Texas cities might be red but have been trending blue. It's the reason the sun belt is opening up to Democrats.

 

[The Lamp]

How is that any different from the suburbs in the Dallas metroplex? Richardson reminds me of Stafford, Plano reminds me of Sugar Land. Get to Mckinney and despite it being a suburb you are reaching Trump territory. The suburbs in all the Texas cities might be red but have been trending blue. It's the reason the sun belt is opening up to Democrats.

It's not any different. My comment trailed a specific statement that Houston is the most racially diverse city, joking that white people in the surrounding conservative suburbs hate that reality.

 

[Spinluck]

I grew up with hurricanes in the earlier half of my life in Florida. We are pretty much a swamp and got so used to them, some came and went and it was just like whatever. But the ones that were powerful left a mark, no matter how prepared we were.

I can't imagine how it is for other cities that just aren't used to getting them. I remember when people just ignored evacuation warnings with Katrina due to inexperience with what hurricane are capable of. Same with Sandy just being a category 3 and tearing NY apart. In Florida a cat 3 means some flooding, palm tree branches everywhere, power outages, and some light structural damage in most parts. I remember being without power for 3 fucking weeks when hurricane Wilma hit back in 2005.

It's just one of those things that can be hard to gauge if you're not used to going through them.

 

[TyrantII]

I wonder if there is some data available that compares the economics of having a city planned like Houston and the damage caused by the flood.

Like does 20 billion in damage from this hurricane beat the 50 billion in revenue gain of no zoning? These numbers are made up but the point is that perhaps everyone knew but didn't care because there was more economic benefit than harm.

Don't forget, infrastructure spending is some of the best spending that can be done to grow economies. Multiplier effect is pretty much as good as you'll get besides just giving cash to poor folks.


So that's not really just spending, since you'll probably get $2.50 back in growth for every $1 spent. That's an investment, on top of mitigating a disaster down the road which just destroys wealth.

 

[Jeels]

It's not any different. My comment trailed a specific statement that Houston is the most racially diverse city, joking that white people in the surrounding conservative suburbs hate that reality.

Gotcha. I just don't think they do. A large enough chunk do to make it disgusting. But those suburbs voting Republican is more out of habit than social value.

 

[FyreWulff]

Yesterday I discovered how Texas changed the law after the West, Texas chemical plant explosion. If you remember the town was flattened by an explosion caused because flammable chemical plants in Texas aren't required to have SPRINKLERS.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Fertilizer_Company_explosion

so they changed the law. Not sprinklers, no you still don't need them. No they changed the law so that citizens are no longer able to find out what chemicals are stored or manufactured in those places.

Texas.

je

sus


fuck

 

[TyrantII]

The point is these homes were all built within the last decade. Not so much that it's some historical precedent set or rising waters. But newer homes built into sections where they're so prone to flooding that it's almost an annual occurrence.

What amazed me was the two flood reservoirs has houses not 20 feet from the downhill retaining levees. Literally new construction right at the foot of the first place should they fail, their back yard basically the reservoir itself.

The state didn't even own any of the land besides the Addick and Barker itself.

That's terrible planning. Granted they're not for potable water, but watersheds up here in the northeast around reservoirs are protected with huge swaths of land that can't be developed. Of course those were hammered out in a different time, where people had different ideas on land management and government.

 

[hydragonwarrior]

I'm sure any additional infrastructure spending would have been dismissed due to claims of "big gubment"

 

[Muppet of a Man]

Yesterday I discovered how Texas changed the law after the West, Texas chemical plant explosion. If you remember the town was flattened by an explosion caused because flammable chemical plants in Texas aren't required to have SPRINKLERS.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Fertilizer_Company_explosion

so they changed the law. Not sprinklers, no you still don't need them. No they changed the law so that citizens are no longer able to find out what chemicals are stored or manufactured in those places.

Texas.

Exactly. Outside of Austin, Texas has its shit on backwards. Even much of the "liberal" population are actually left-leaning libertarians. So, even in cities like Austin there is an incessant resistance to zoning and other planning related regulations.

And while I agree that the NIMBY-related sentiments of much regulations found in other expensive, liberal cities like San Fran and Seattle are also bad, all things considered, those cities at least heed the warning of scientists on natural-disaster-related regulation and zoning.

 

[geomon]

I grew up with hurricanes in the earlier half of my life in Florida. We are pretty much a swamp and got so used to them, some came and went and it was just like whatever. But the ones that were powerful left a mark, no matter how prepared we were.

The geology of Florida is very different to that of Houston. Florida sits on a thick sheet of limestone, which is very porous. So any time it floods in Florida, the water will sit for a day or two at most. Some places quicker than others because of drainage but you get the idea, I hope. It's also why we get those lovely sinkholes so often.

Houston sits on clay and sand deposits, which are porous but not nearly as much as Florida. The water will drain but it'll be much slower. So when it floods there, the water sits and it'll sit for a long ass time unless drained out by pumps.

 

[Raven117]

Houstonians wear the lack of zoning laws like a badge of honor.

"it gives Houston personality! You'll never know what you'll find! A cool bar or specialty boutique could be around the corner, or a strip club or a daycare! Could be anything, really!"

Meanwhile Dallas citizens look down at Houston and think it's beyond ugly because of those things. Houston thinks it makes them eclectic. And so goes the everlasting war of culture between Dallas and Houston.

But Dallas would have weathered Harvey far better than Houston because of its better city planning.

Please. There have been articles and articles about the Trinity River leeves not being up to par. Downtown Dallas would be underwater.

 

[br0ken_shad0w]

Cheap land and low cost of living which is why there's such a builder's craze especially in the last decade. Could there have been better planning and infrastructure? Sure but families want their cheap homes and builders are willing to build wherever they can be allowed to. Either that means [shoddy] townhomes closer to downtown or suburbs in what used to be farm and prairie land in the outskirts.

 

[Andrew Korenchkin]

I'm really curious to see how this will change the topic of land use in Houston.

 

[-tetsuo-]

Houstonians wear the lack of zoning laws like a badge of honor.

"it gives Houston personality! You'll never know what you'll find! A cool bar or specialty boutique could be around the corner, or a strip club or a daycare! Could be anything, really!"

Meanwhile Dallas citizens look down at Houston and think it's beyond ugly because of those things. Houston thinks it makes them eclectic. And so goes the everlasting war of culture between Dallas and Houston.

But Dallas would have weathered Harvey far better than Houston because of its better city planning.

 

[captive]

That's the point. As far as damage goes, they would fair better. Way to not even engage with the subject at hand.

Even the thread title was too much to read, huh?

Read the OP smh.

Sandy hit the densely populated north east in several states (remember that Canada was even damaged a lot), but it still only resulted in around a much lower total damage number of $71 Billion.

you guys are joking right?

https://www.accuweather.com/en/weather-news/sandy-statistics-rain-wind-snow/876665
4 to 8 inches of rain? Seriously?

sandy isn't even in the top ten of most rainfail from tropical systems.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_wettest_tropical_cyclones_in_the_United_States

A month and half ago i got 6" of rain at my house in about 2 hours from a freak thunderstorm. We didnt flood.

 

[trembli0s]

I don't care what kind of engineering you have, you aren't going to redirect +40" of rain spread out over the entire SE portion of Texas which is the size of basically the entire NE seaboard.

If this had happened anywhere else in the country other than SE Texas or Florida, you would be talking about thousands of dead folks.

The lack of "zoning" also doesn't even impact Houston all that much more than any other city in the US because each neighborhood/city within Houston has its own land-use regulations which closely mirror what you will find in any other big US city.

All the lack of zoning does is allow for easier development, which is a large reason why the city is so affordable for poor and lower middle class folks, who would be unable to live in a place like San Francisco, Seattle, or LA.