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[Amir0x]

What were the numbers for the PS2 version of Viewtiful Joe PS2 anyway?

It performed worse than GC version from all indications. I have month of August NPD and it says Viewtiful Joe GC sold 11,000 vs. PS2 9,800. Ironically PS2 Viewtiful Joe brought in more revenue because it was sold for more.

 

[Shard]

That is the sort of irony that leads to Microsoft losing more money as they sell more X-Boxes.

 

[Robert-GCA]

Capcom announces sales expectations for fiscal year 2003; to ship more than 1 million copies to Japan.

Or what about this!?

Capcom expected to sell 1.42 million RE0; sells only 1.12 million

Yay lets source gamespot. Oh wait, weren't they, yes the first ones to post the $399 price point for US rumour coming out of TGS for PSP, but then their post magically disappeared. And how bout that sourcing press releases that are old! That news post on there is dated from April of 2003. You don't think the game might have sold 300k copies globally in a year and a half since then?!

And what about Viewtiful Joe? Oh, maybe you're still skeptical!

Let's hear it from Capcom's mouth:

Capcom states Viewtiful Joe performing under expectations

Yay, another old source. That is dated March 31 of 2004. Theres another 8 months from then till now. Plenty of time to sell more units. I still stand by my numbers. My source for them is another GAFer.

*cough*

Uhm, development for Xbox is slowing down. There will always be development until the end, but it's the rate at which we begin to see this slow down that is important. Once Xenon is "officially" announced then the spigot will officially begin to be turned off. For Gamecube, the same applies.

Its a moot point then and doesn't matter.

Was this post 'baseless' enough for you, Odnetnin? Or do you want to sink with the junior member ship?

Don't bring the membership status crap into this. It means nothing. I don't have time to make 50 posts a day on this forum like you do. So go back to your posting of old info across the forums k?

 

[Amir0x]

Yay lets source gamespot. Oh wait, weren't they, yes the first ones to post the $399 price point for US rumour coming out of TGS for PSP, but then their post magically disappeared. And how bout that sourcing press releases that are old! That news post on there is dated from April of 2003. You don't think the game might have sold 300k copies globally in a year and a half since then?!

Oh, that's fine. Please show the source where now suddenly it has performed beyond expectations!

Yay, another old source. That is dated March 31 of 2004. Theres another 8 months from then till now. Plenty of time to sell more units. I still stand by my numbers. My source for them is another GAFer.

Oh, I see! Capcom must have called it wrong! Certainly they must have mentioned something about it since then, right?

Oh what's that? You don't have any sources? I see. Well when you do, post them. I assure you I will take back what I said.

But wait!

It was a "GAFer"! That sure is a good source. It's not a cop out of any kind. Hey guys, I know a GAFer too. This GAFer tells me you are wrong. Which GAFer will win?

Its a moot point then and doesn't matter.

Moot in that you really almost to the point of it being painful want for the Gamecube not to be a dying system. So much so that you actually say if a system is selling at all it's not dying. Yes, that Wonderswan Crystal is alive and thriving alright.

Don't bring the membership status crap into this. It means nothing. I don't have time to make 50 posts a day on this forum like you do. So go back to your posting of old info across the forums k?

It obviously means something because so far you have:

a.) Listed no viable sources for ANY of your information
b.) Called me ignorant depsite having no sources, even though I have listed several sources.
c.) Thinking that "old" information from the company themselves is somehow less viable than "some GAFer"

Keep on diggin' that hole!

 

[-SRV-]

Isn't the next gen of Handheld gaming already kinda, sorta here already?

One third of it is. The PSP and DS need more software.

Just to clarify, I want next gen consoles. This gen is over the hill.

 

[Bishman]

OMG I just saw the commercial on SpikeTV. WATCH WWE RAW NOW!!!!

 

[SantaC]

OMG I just saw the commercial on SpikeTV. WATCH WWE RAW NOW!!!!

capture and let us download

 

[nightez]

OMG I just saw the commercial on SpikeTV. WATCH WWE RAW NOW!!!!

Good?

 

[Bishman]

It was actually good. It is similar to Movie C at the Capcom site.

EDIT: They just showed it again!!!!

 

[DrGAKMAN]

I've heard both sides...I've heard reports on how GCN CAPCOM have under-performed and other reports on how they didn't. To me it all depends on who you talk to and what their agenda is. It's obvious there's conflict within CAPCOM itself especially over the GCN support so some of them are gonna be happy with sales, but as a whole, CAPCOM as a publisher wasn't happy with ALOT of thier game's performances across ALL platforms.

But what does it matter? Does it make your weiner bigger to know that a game on a Nintendo system undersold? Oh-nos!!1!

 

[Lemurnator]

The wave of hype will arrive as soon as the GC game is released. At the end of the ad when the announcer states the games rating and availability, "For Nintendo GameCube and Coming Soon to the Playstation 2 Entertainment System with exclusive features."

 

[Silent_Echo]

It showed at least 3 times that I saw during Raw. Good commercial, but when it showed the box art, it only showed it for a few seconds and it didn't specify the platform. So a lot of casuals are going to assume it's on PS2.

Oh well, it was still a very good commercial. The whole thing was gameplay and cutscenes. No yappin', they let the game speak for itself pretty much.

 

[The Interrobanger]

I've seen the comercial twice today on the Comedy Network in Canada.

It's definately one of the best video game commercials I've seen in a while, with only Call Of Duty: Finest Hour beating it out.

So, Canadians, keep an eye on the Comedy Network if you want to see it.

 

[SantaC]

wait, did the commerical say GC or ps2? Capcom is really stupid if they say GC & PS2 at this point. Casuals will go in and ask for the PS2 version and be disappointed when it's not out, and then the manager will say it will come later, and many will casuals wait. And capcom expect this game to sell on GC?

 

[Red Dolphin]

"For Nintendo GameCube and Coming Soon to the Playstation 2 Entertainment System with exclusive features."

Capcom is fucking stupid if this is the case. WE WANT TO PROVE THAT 3RD PARTY GAMES DO NOT SELL ON GAMECUBE BY REPEATLY MENTIONING THERES A PS2 VERSION ON THE WAY BEFORE THE CUBE VERSION IS EVEN OUT!

 

[koam]

The commercial I saw said "only for Gamecube" or "available soon for Gamecube", something to that extent, it made it sound exclusive.

 

[Baron Aloha]

Heh. Every single game Capcom has put on GC has failed to meet expectations.

That statement is completely false. Overall for 2003-2004 their GC game sales actually exceeded their expectations. It was their PS2 and Xbox software that fell short. Capcom said so themselves a while back.

 

[Amir0x]

That statement is completely false. Overall for 2003-2004 their GC game sales actually exceeded their expectations. It was their PS2 and Xbox software that fell short. Capcom said so themselves a while back.

I'm sorry I listed sources where Capcom themselves stated they failed to meet expectations. Of course, you can feel free to list your own sources where they recently changed this. I know some PS2 and Xbox software that "fell short", but definitely not all of them. Onimusha 1/2 and Devil May Cry sold spectacularly well and exceeded their expectations. Gamecube, on the other hand, has failed to reap successes that have met expectations according to my research and the words of Capcom themselves which I have posted in this thread.

Feel free to find a recent source which rejects these ideas. I will gladly admit I am wrong. And it better not come from some place like GAMECUBEADVANCED.

This news is pre-Viewtiful Joe, so take this in conjunction with the post-Viewtiful Joe report of Capcom's own mouth. View it here:

Devil May Cry 2, for example, underperformed significantly – selling 1.4 million copies rather than the expected 1.66 million. Resident Evil 0 sold 1.12 million copies rather than 1.42 million; Clock Tower 3 sold 250,000 rather than 450,000.

Capcom recently issued a statement indicating that it was re-evaluating its relationship with Nintendo, which had seen it developing a number of exclusive titles for the GameCube, as its software was not selling as well as expected on Nintendo platforms.

 

[Baron Aloha]

Capcom recently issued a statement indicating that it was re-evaluating its relationship with Nintendo, which had seen it developing a number of exclusive titles for the GameCube, as its software was not selling as well as expected on Nintendo platforms.

I love how you left out the next sentence. The full paragraph:

Capcom recently issued a statement indicating that it was re-evaluating its relationship with Nintendo, which had seen it developing a number of exclusive titles for the GameCube, as its software was not selling as well as expected on Nintendo platforms.Now that it appears that Capcom games simply aren’t selling no matter what the platform, it’ll be interesting to see what effect this has on the Nintendo relationship.

And I am looking for a link on what I posted earlier. I read it at MagicBox, so I've got to dig through their news archives and track down the press release.

 

[Amir0x]

I love how you left out the next sentence:

Now that it appears that Capcom games simply aren’t selling no matter what the platform, it’ll be interesting to see what effect this has on the Nintendo relationship.

I left out the next sentence because that didn't apply to your assertion that the Gamecube titles "exceeded expectations." I like to keep my arguments focused. My statement was not that all PS2/Xbox games exceeded expectations, it was that the vast majority of Gamecube games did not. And this is true.

In other words, that next sentence was absolutely pointless in forwarding my point that Capcom Gamecube games have not met expectations.

You seem to want to argue that Gamecube Capcom games did better than PS2 games for expectations, and all you have to do is look to the spectacularly selling Onimusha 1/2 and Devil May Cry to see why that's wrong.

And I am looking for a link on what I posted earlier. I read it at MagicBox, so I've got to dig through their news archives and track down the press release.

I hope you find it

 

[Baron Aloha]

You seem to want to argue that Gamecube Capcom games did better than PS2 games for expectations, and all you have to do is look to the spectacularly selling Onimusha 1/2 and Devil May Cry to see why that's wrong.

I'm not denying those titles sold well. I'm saying several PS2 titles since then have failed to meet expectations and it all started with DMC2. Go back and read what I said. I'm talking about the past 2 years (2003-2004).

Back to what you were saying before....you keep harping on about how RE0 and REmake bombed but those japanese projections are flat out ridiculous. Can you please post a link to the Gamespot article that you quoted? I'm finding it hard to believe they actually projected 1 million units for RE0 in Japan alone when, to date, RE:CV only put up ~404,000 on DC and ~338,000 on PS2 in Japan. Even RE3 on PSX failed to sell that much in Japan alone. I'm inclined to believe that Gamespot was mistaken when they wrote that. Either that, or the people making the projections were on crack. The Viewtiful Joe expectations are similarly ridiculous. VJ was a niche game, in a forgotten genre, that was developed on a shoe string budget. Suddenly that kind of game selling ~400,000 copies worldwide on the GC is a disappointment?

Going back to your original quote:

Every single game Capcom has put on GC has failed to meet expectations.

The bottom line is that if you can't show that "EVERY SINGLE" game has fallen short then you shouldn't be making such statements.

 

[Amir0x]

I'm not denying those titles sold well. I'm saying several PS2 titles since then have failed to meet expectations and it all started with DMC2. Go back and read what I said. I'm talking about the past 2 years (2003-2004).

Back to what you were saying before....you keep harping on about how RE0 and REmake bombed but those japanese projections are flat out ridiculous. Can you please post a link to the Gamespot article that you quoted? I'm finding it hard to believe they actually projected 1 million units for RE0 in Japan alone when, to date, RE:CV only put up ~404,000 on DC and ~338,000 on PS2 in Japan. Even RE3 on PSX failed to sell that much in Japan alone. I'm inclined to believe that Gamespot was mistaken when they wrote that. Either that, or the people making the projections were on crack. The Viewtiful Joe expectations are similarly ridiculous. VJ was a niche game, in a forgotten genre, that was developed on a shoe string budget. Suddenly that kind of game selling ~400,000 copies worldwide on the GC is a disappointment?

Whether the expectations are ridiculous or not is clearly not the point. Capcom sets an expectation and they want it to be met. When it is not met they are disappointed. In the case of several PS2 titles, the expectations were surpassed. In the case of the Gamecube titles, they were not... and I still can't find even a single example where they were even met. I'm sure there might be one or two, but I sure as hell can't find it.

But for information and the one game in your example, look:

Resident Evil 0 sold 1.12 million copies rather than 1.42 million as expected. That's from Capcom's own mouth. That entire Gameindustry.biz article points to many games failing to meet expectations across all platforms. As for the Gamespot article, that source is already listed in this thread. Check it here. Note that in this case shipped ~ sales, as Capcom stated it expected to ship 1 million overall of Biohazard 0 in Japan alone. And logic dictates, including the title of Gamespot's article, that a company doesn't recklessly ship an overabundance of copies unless they expect it to sell at least close to that amount.

Anyway, the point is not whether the people making the projections were on crack - it's whether the company [Capcom] was pleased with the results. They were, obviously, not... as expressed specifically in their own press releases.

The bottom line is that if you can't show that "EVERY SINGLE" game has fallen short then you shouldn't be making such statements.

Everytime someone has asked me to produce a source I have. Someone claimed Viewtiful Joe exceeded expectations and provided no source. I showed a source from Capcom which proved they were disappointed. Someone said RE0 met expectations, I showed them sources which proved it did not. In case after case I am showing this to be true, but do you really expect me to find a source for EVERY SINGLE UNIQUE TITLE on Gamecube?

No. That is not my duty at this point. At this point it is on you and certain other people to produce competent sources that claim otherwise. Because I am the only one who has backed up my statements.

 

[Baron Aloha]

As for the Gamespot article, that source is already listed in this thread. Check it here. Note that in this case shipped ~ sales, as Capcom stated it expected to ship 1 million overall of Biohazard 0 in Japan alone. And logic dictates, including the title of Gamespot's article, that a company doesn't recklessly ship an overabundance of copies unless they expect it to sell at least close to that amount.

That same article mentions that they planned to ship 850,000 units of Auto Modelista. That went on to sell far fewer copies. I'm looking for an exact number but it's not even registering on Shrine of Data. The lowest selling Japanese PS2 game listed there at #200 on the list has 124,000 units sold.

Hell, Capcom only sold 3,000,000 units of software across all platforms in 2003 for Japan. They expected RE0 to make up approximately a third of all their sales? :lol :lol :lol

Everytime someone has asked me to produce a source I have. Someone claimed Viewtiful Joe exceeded expectations and provided no source. I showed a source from Capcom which proved they were disappointed. Someone said RE0 met expectations, I showed them sources which proved it did not. In case after case I am showing this to be true, but do you really expect me to find a source for EVERY SINGLE UNIQUE TITLE on Gamecube?

No. That is not my duty at this point. At this point it is on you and certain other people to produce competent sources that claim otherwise. Because I am the only one who has backed up my statements.

You posted links to articles that talked about two games. 2 games != the entire Capcom Gamecube lineup my friend! When you make ridiculous statements like the one you made it is precisely your duty to back it up. I for one fully intend to back up what I said earlier and I am still searching through MB. I'll probably have the link in a few hours. I've been clicking through each day's news and searching for "Capcom".

The GC may have been home to a few of Capcom's more public disappoints but that doesn't change the fact that when all was said and done it was the PS2 projections that fell short.

 

[Culex]

Whether the expectations are ridiculous or not is clearly not the point. Capcom sets an expectation and they want it to be met. When it is not met they are disappointed. In the case of several PS2 titles, the expectations were surpassed. In the case of the Gamecube titles, they were not... and I still can't find even a single example where they were even met. I'm sure there might be one or two, but I sure as hell can't find it.

But for information and the one game in your example, look:

Resident Evil 0 sold 1.12 million copies rather than 1.42 million as expected. That's from Capcom's own mouth. That entire Gameindustry.biz article points to many games failing to meet expectations across all platforms. As for the Gamespot article, that source is already listed in this thread. Check it here. Note that in this case shipped ~ sales, as Capcom stated it expected to ship 1 million overall of Biohazard 0 in Japan alone. And logic dictates, including the title of Gamespot's article, that a company doesn't recklessly ship an overabundance of copies unless they expect it to sell at least close to that amount.

Anyway, the point is not whether the people making the projections were on crack - it's whether the company [Capcom] was pleased with the results. They were, obviously, not... as expressed specifically in their own press releases.



Everytime someone has asked me to produce a source I have. Someone claimed Viewtiful Joe exceeded expectations and provided no source. I showed a source from Capcom which proved they were disappointed. Someone said RE0 met expectations, I showed them sources which proved it did not. In case after case I am showing this to be true, but do you really expect me to find a source for EVERY SINGLE UNIQUE TITLE on Gamecube?

No. That is not my duty at this point. At this point it is on you and certain other people to produce competent sources that claim otherwise. Because I am the only one who has backed up my statements.

If you're making a statement that ALL GC games from Capcom have failed to meet projections, you are entitled to give the facts to back it up. Otherwise, you're just a fanboy on crack.

 

[jarrod]

but do you really expect me to find a source for EVERY SINGLE UNIQUE TITLE on Gamecube?

No. That is not my duty at this point. At this point it is on you and certain other people to produce competent sources that claim otherwise. Because I am the only one who has backed up my statements.

Heh. Every single game Capcom has put on GC has failed to meet expectations.

Neat!

 

[jarrod]

And hey look what I found...

Capcom Announces yearly Financial Issues

Capcom today announced their worldwide sales data for the fiscal year 2002 and their projections for the future.

On the PS2 front, things have been far lower than expected, with the firm selling around 2 million less than their 8,750,000 target. The final numbers come in at 6,830,000. Capcom has blamed disappointing sales of Clock Tower 3 and the Western release of Devil May Cry 2 for the slump.

Despite Tekki selling out worldwide, the Xbox results paint a similar picture, with just 280,000 units sold overall, less than half of their 600,000 target.

On the Game Boy Advance, 4,800,000 games were sold, but strangely Capcom's cutting back support on the platform this year, cancelling 10 of their planned games.

And contrary to certain reports, the firm actually sold more GameCube games than they expected to. Total sales are at 3,230,000, 200,000 units above their initial expectations of 3,200,000.

For the fiscal year 2003, Capcom's expecting the following sales.

PS2: 6,830,000 target (34 releases) GameCube: 3,230,000 target (18 releases) Xbox: 280,000 target (10 releases) Gameboy Advance: 2,040,000 target (17 releases)

Capcom's vice president Heiji Oshima has said they're banking on games like Biohazard Outbreak and Dino Crisis 3 to improve PS2 and Xbox figures. He also mentioned that Resident Evil 4 may not be released until the next fiscal year.

Capcom have announced their sales for the fiscal year 2002 and GameCube sales were higher than anticipated.
Capcom revealed today that their target of 8,750,000 sales in the year 2002 has unfortunately not been achieved, the company has only sold 6,830,000. The company blame low sales of such titles as Clock Tower 3 and of Devil May Cry 2, the latter in the west, for the bad sales.

Microsoft’s Xbox also had a disappointing year, a target of 600,000 sales was set but the machine only managed to sell 280,000.

4,800,000 titles were sold on the Game Boy Advance, however, despite this Capcom have canned 10 titles that were originally planned for this format.

However the GameCube did Nintendo proud, the console was predicted sales of 3,200,000 but sold more, in total 3,230,000 titles were sold.

Capcom also announced their expected sales for the fiscal year of 2003. Check the list out below..

PS2: 6,830,000 target (34 releases)
GameCube: 3,230,000 target (18 releases)
Xbox: 280,000 target (10 releases)
Gameboy Advance: 2,040,000 target (17 releases)

Gamespot ran the same story, for some reason leaving out that PS2/Xbox had failed to meet expectations while GBA/GC surpassed them. Instead they concerntrated on how Capcom lowered future expectations for GC/GBA while raising them for PS2/Xbox. Nice slant there. :/

 

[ge-man]

It still shocks me that Capcom didn't increase support for the GC. I don't see why the GC couldn't get Street Fighter AC or some late ports of Onimusha and DMC. They don't have a problem releasing ports of VJ or RE4 nearly a year later on the PS2 so what's blocking them on the GC front?

 

[jarrod]

Just checked Capcom's Fiscal 2003 report. In the finalcial analysis they divide down select notable releases by...

Failed to meet expectations
-auto modellista (PS2)
-Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter (PS2)
-Clock Tower 3 (PS2)
-Devil May Cry 2 (PS2)
-Resident Evil 0 (GC)

Met or exceeded expectations
-Gyakuten Saiban 2 (GBA)
-MegaMan Battle Network 3 (GBA)
-MegaMan Zero (GBA)
-Onimusha: Warlords GH (PS2)
-Resident Evil (GC)
-Resident Evil Code: Veronica X GH (PS2)

...so Amir... happen to have any source that stated REmake failed to meet expectations? Along with every single other GameCube release for that matter? Or are you ready to admit being wrong for once?

 

[Deg]

Can i see any adverts?

 

[radioheadrule83]

edit: Inaba has said VJ was not ported to PS2 for financial reasons, and that they wanted it to reach the largest audience possible because they feel they made a good product. They're evaluating an Xbox release of the VJ games.

And as you can see, they don't seem to be mentioned in Capcom's reports as under-performing.

 

[jarrod]

It still shocks me that Capcom didn't increase support for the GC. I don't see why the GC couldn't get Street Fighter AC or some late ports of Onimusha and DMC. They don't have a problem releasing ports of VJ or RE4 nearly a year later on the PS2 so what's blocking them on the GC front?

Even stranger was that they cut back GBA support, even though it came in around a million over expectations. Not to mention GBA R&D being dirt cheap... this was all after Nintendo rejected Capcom's stock offer though, so that might've played into things.

And yeah, Capcom (along with more Japanese companies) need to jump on the multiplatform bandwagon. Games like RE4 or DMC3 should really be releasing on all 3 consoles these days... I'm still amazed we aren't getting Ookami on GameCube or Monster Hunter on Xbox when those userbases seem like a perfect fit. Placing all bets on PS2 has never helped Capcom in the past, in fact it's usually hurt more than any single other platform. :/

 

[jarrod]

Looking at Capcom's most recent report (as of November 19th 2004)...

Failed to meet expectations
-Onimusha 3: Demon Siege (PS2) NA
-Resident Evil Outbreak: File #2 (PS2) JP

Met or exceeded expectations
-Grand Theft Auto: Vice City (PS2) JP
-MegaMan Anniversary Collection (GC) NA
-MegaMan Anniversary Collection (PS2) NA
-MegaMan Battle Network 4 (GBA) NA
-MegaMan Battle Network 4.5 (GBA) JP
-MegaMan Zero 3 (GBA) JP
-Mobile Suit Z-Gundam: AEUG Vs Titians DX (Arcade) JP
-Onimusha 3: Demon Siege (PS2) EU
-Resident Evil Outbreak (PS2) EU
-Street Fighter Anniversary Collection (PS2) NA
-Super Mario Wonder Janjanland (Medal) JP

 

[Deg]

I dont think Capcom want to bother with Xbox. They gave it a solid go and the games did even worse than they should have.

 

[jarrod]

I dont think Capcom want to bother with Xbox. They gave it a solid go and the games did even worse than they should have.

I dunno. A warmed over Onimusha port (months before PS2 got a full blown sequel), a crappy Dino Crisis sequel from a different team, a $200 mech sim and various 2D fighter ports isn't exactly what I'd call "a solid go". At the least online games like RE Outbreak and Monster Hunter (both of which were developed on Capcom's inhouse multiplatform middleware btw) should probably see Xbox release.

And games like Under the Skin, MegaMan X8 or Ookami seem like a great fit with the GC base. I dunno why Capcom's suddenly gone PS2 only, the platform's given them far more bombs than all other consoles combined.

 

[Baron Aloha]

Thank you Jarrod!!!

 

[Catchpenny]

Met or exceeded expectations
[. . .]
-Onimusha 3: Demon Siege (PS2) EU

Heh. I wonder if the Onimusha 3 EU projection was made before or after the game underperformed in Japan.

And games like Under the Skin, MegaMan X8 or Ookami seem like a great fit with the GC base. I dunno why Capcom's suddenly gone PS2 only, the platform's given them far more bombs than all other consoles combined.

Agreed. You'd think a company struggling like this wouldn't put all their eggs in one basket, especially when that basket has seen a lot of smashed eggs for Capcom. There's no reason not to have Maximo and new Megaman titles on Gamecube, and Devil May Cry on Xbox.

 

[Wario64]

Huge RE4 marketing = building fan sites to win a Ipod

http://www2.capcom.com/fanbuilder/

 

[Amir0x]

If you're making a statement that ALL GC games from Capcom have failed to meet projections, you are entitled to give the facts to back it up. Otherwise, you're just a fanboy on crack.

But whenever prompted I have backed it up. The insurmountable task of finding every single title is negligible because if the big ones can't meet expectations what are the chances that the tiny ones are? So far, aside from jarrod, no one has backed anything up. Similarly, it was not meet who continually tried to turn this into a PS2 vs. Gamecube thing - the "fanboy on crack" comment uniformally reveals you have no idea what my stance is.

My stance is to reveal the truth, no matter the consequences. On Gamecube I have heard nothing but failed expectations. Jarrod's link suggests otherwise for fiscal year 2002, but... well... I'll answer my speculative questions below.

That same article mentions that they planned to ship 850,000 units of Auto Modelista. That went on to sell far fewer copies. I'm looking for an exact number but it's not even registering on Shrine of Data. The lowest selling Japanese PS2 game listed there at #200 on the list has 124,000 units sold.

Hell, Capcom only sold 3,000,000 units of software across all platforms in 2003 for Japan. They expected RE0 to make up approximately a third of all their sales?

This is a good point, but we DO have a solid number. They expected it to sell 1.42 million to which RE0 sold only 1.12 million. This seems to be the most accurate, so this we can indeed put behind us - RE0 sold under expectations.

You posted links to articles that talked about two games. 2 games != the entire Capcom Gamecube lineup my friend! When you make ridiculous statements like the one you made it is precisely your duty to back it up. I for one fully intend to back up what I said earlier and I am still searching through MB. I'll probably have the link in a few hours. I've been clicking through each day's news and searching for "Capcom".

The whole argument started by making balloon statements. No one in their right mind would expect someone to find every single game, only major titles. And when someone asked me to find numbers for specific titles I did my duty and found just that. But, really, you have to be joking if you think that just because someone makes a blanket statement they would undertake such a ridiculous thing due to skepticism. If Capcom's "bigger" games can't meet expectations why would I go through the trouble to prove that its smaller games didn't either?

What was Capcom's biggest titles for Gamecube? Resident Evil 0? Viewtiful Joe? You decide. But either way both those sold under expectations according to Capcom themselves, which you can see in their press release and in various sites which reported that news.

In the end it comes down to this: I revealed more than a few sources, and up until jarrod nobody had even had a single one to counter it. Jarrod at least deserves props for finding something, however weak.

The GC may have been home to a few of Capcom's more public disappoints but that doesn't change the fact that when all was said and done it was the PS2 projections that fell short.

PS2 unsuprisingly still the dominant consumer platform for Japanese giant Capcom.

Poor retail performance spurs re-think of Cube exclusivity plans.

It seems to me that they are not, once again, happy with Cube performance. And that they continue to support the PS2 the most, either because it has by far the largest userbase or because they realize they can expect to meet their goals the majority of the time on that platform. And even then, this is so far away from the original discussion that started in this thread that's it's absurd.

It's conceivable that the PS2 and Xbox (especially Xbox) continaully underperform. Hell, it's even possible (although I'd say it's all but impossible)) that it underperforms the Gamecube. But in the end, what we were discussing was that Gamecube titles consistently do not meet expectations. And nearly every shred of evidence we have, outside of jarrod's late link, suggests that this is true.

Gamespot ran the same story, for some reason leaving out that PS2/Xbox had failed to meet expectations while GBA/GC surpassed them. Instead they concerntrated on how Capcom lowered future expectations for GC/GBA while raising them for PS2/Xbox. Nice slant there. :/

This seems interesting. For one, that Gamerfeed story is no longer up. For two, console-specific sites are about as trustworthy as the Iraqi Information Ministry pre-war... so Cube-Europe doesn't seem to be the BEST site to rely on for unbiased information regarding such an important matter... and I can't seem to find anything via google outside of Cube-Europe for source.

Additionally you say Gamespot reported it, and that they reported it with a different slant. Before you have some conspiratorial rant, Gamespot is much more trust worthy than Cube-Europe, I'm sorry to say. And not only that you failed to list a source for the Gamespot story, which might have put things in a different light. But then...

Just checked Capcom's Fiscal 2003 report. In the finalcial analysis they divide down select notable releases by...

Failed to meet expectations
-auto modellista (PS2)
-Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter (PS2)
-Clock Tower 3 (PS2)
-Devil May Cry 2 (PS2)
-Resident Evil 0 (GC)

Met or exceeded expectations
-Gyakuten Saiban 2 (GBA)
-MegaMan Battle Network 3 (GBA)
-MegaMan Zero (GBA)
-Onimusha: Warlords GH (PS2)
-Resident Evil (GC)
-Resident Evil Code: Veronica X GH (PS2)

...so Amir... happen to have any source that stated REmake failed to meet expectations? Along with every single other GameCube release for that matter? Or are you ready to admit being wrong for once?

I have listed sources for Biohazard 0 and Viewtiful Joe failing to meet expectations. Read the thread. No, I will not find a source for every single Gamecube release - don't be freakin' ridiculous. That is not my job. Doesn't matter if I claimed something like that, because the undertaking itself would be phenomenal. I'd have to spend days getting every shred of information together for the over 30 Capcom Gamecube releases. This is not a reasonable expectation, despite what was said. If their major release failed to meet expectations why the hell would their little no name games exceed expectations? One can draw the appropriate conclusions.

However, based on this very post, I now admit that Resident Evil met expectations on Gamecube... and that's because you listed a viable source, where I could find none.

In the end, though, the topic at hand was simple.

Someone said they thought the success of RE4 would mean more releases for Gamecube. I said the generation is almost over, and that Capcom would not invest more in GC (after Killer7 and maybe one or two other releases) even if RE4 was successful because of the vast amount of titles that underperformed. Even if REMake was successful, which I now admit it was due to the source, that is not a compelling case for vast success. Note that unlike you, however, I do not expect you to find a source for every game I did not find a source for.

 

[Culex]

But whenever prompted I have backed it up. The insurmountable task of finding every single title is negligible because if the big ones can't meet expectations what are the chances that the tiny ones are? So far, aside from jarrod, no one has backed anything up. Similarly, it was not meet who continually tried to turn this into a PS2 vs. Gamecube thing - the "fanboy on crack" comment uniformally reveals you have no idea what my stance is.

My stance is to reveal the truth, no matter the consequences. On Gamecube I have heard nothing but failed expectations. Jarrod's link suggests otherwise for fiscal year 2002, but... well... I'll answer my speculative questions below.



This is a good point, but we DO have a solid number. They expected it to sell 1.42 million to which RE0 sold only 1.12 million. This seems to be the most accurate, so this we can indeed put behind us - RE0 sold under expectations.



The whole argument started by making balloon statements. No one in their right mind would expect someone to find every single game, only major titles. And when someone asked me to find numbers for specific titles I did my duty and found just that. But, really, you have to be joking if you think that just because someone makes a blanket statement they would undertake such a ridiculous thing due to skepticism. If Capcom's "bigger" games can't meet expectations why would I go through the trouble to prove that its smaller games didn't either?

What was Capcom's biggest titles for Gamecube? Resident Evil 0? Viewtiful Joe? You decide. But either way both those sold under expectations according to Capcom themselves, which you can see in their press release and in various sites which reported that news.

In the end it comes down to this: I revealed more than a few sources, and up until jarrod nobody had even had a single one to counter it. Jarrod at least deserves props for finding something, however weak.



PS2 unsuprisingly still the dominant consumer platform for Japanese giant Capcom.

Poor retail performance spurs re-think of Cube exclusivity plans.

It seems to me that they are not, once again, happy with Cube performance. And that they continue to support the PS2 the most, either because it has by far the largest userbase or because they realize they can expect to meet their goals the majority of the time on that platform. And even then, this is so far away from the original discussion that started in this thread that's it's absurd.

It's conceivable that the PS2 and Xbox (especially Xbox) continaully underperform. Hell, it's even possible (although I'd say it's all but impossible)) that it underperforms the Gamecube. But in the end, what we were discussing was that Gamecube titles consistently do not meet expectations. And nearly every shred of evidence we have, outside of jarrod's late link, suggests that this is true.



This seems interesting. For one, that Gamerfeed story is no longer up. For two, console-specific sites are about as trustworthy as the Iraqi Information Ministry pre-war... so Cube-Europe doesn't seem to be the BEST site to rely on for unbiased information regarding such an important matter... and I can't seem to find anything via google outside of Cube-Europe for source.

Additionally you say Gamespot reported it, and that they reported it with a different slant. Before you have some conspiratorial rant, Gamespot is much more trust worthy than Cube-Europe, I'm sorry to say. And not only that you failed to list a source for the Gamespot story, which might have put things in a different light. But then...



I have listed sources for Biohazard 0 and Viewtiful Joe failing to meet expectations. Read the thread. No, I will not find a source for every single Gamecube release - don't be freakin' ridiculous. That is not my job. Doesn't matter if I claimed something like that, because the undertaking itself would be phenomenal. I'd have to spend days getting every shred of information together for the over 30 Capcom Gamecube releases. This is not a reasonable expectation, despite what was said. If their major release failed to meet expectations why the hell would their little no name games exceed expectations? One can draw the appropriate conclusions.

However, based on this very post, I now admit that Resident Evil met expectations on Gamecube... and that's because you listed a viable source, where I could find none.

In the end, though, the topic at hand was simple.

Someone said they thought the success of RE4 would mean more releases for Gamecube. I said the generation is almost over, and that Capcom would not invest more in GC (after Killer7 and maybe one or two other releases) even if RE4 was successful because of the vast amount of titles that underperformed. Even if REMake was successful, which I now admit it was due to the source, that is not a compelling case for vast success. Note that unlike you, however, I do not expect you to find a source for every game I did not find a source for.

What it all boils down to is that you made a blanket statement that ALL Capcom-based GC games did not meet expectations.

That clearly is not true, as both the RE remake and Mega Man Anniversary Collection met or exeeded.

 

[Catchpenny]

Even if REMake was successful, which I now admit it was due to the source, that is not a compelling case for vast success.

Sure, but again, Capcom's games have not seen much success on any platform lately. Gamecube's base has been at least as receptive to Capcom games as the PS2 base, perhaps even more receptive.

It's interesting that the games you listed as big Capcom successes, Onimusha 1/2 and DMC, came pretty early this generation. Seems like their profile has been slipping all-around in the past couple of years.

 

[radioheadrule83]

PS2 unsuprisingly still the dominant consumer platform for Japanese giant Capcom.

Poor retail performance spurs re-think of Cube exclusivity plans.

It seems to me that they are not, once again, happy with Cube performance. And that they continue to support the PS2 the most, either because it has by far the largest userbase or because they realize they can expect to meet their goals the majority of the time on that platform. And even then, this is so far away from the original discussion that started in this thread that's it's absurd.

It's conceivable that the PS2 and Xbox (especially Xbox) continaully underperform. Hell, it's even possible (although I'd say it's all but impossible)) that it underperforms the Gamecube. But in the end, what we were discussing was that Gamecube titles consistently do not meet expectations. And nearly every shred of evidence we have, outside of jarrod's late link, suggests that this is true.

I don't think you're far wrong, I don't think you'll find anyone arguing with you that PN03 tanked for example. But aside from that and RE0, there really isn't much else to speak of. Nothing that there would be lofty expectations for at any rate. I do think you're drawing a more heavily pessimistic picture with regards the Gamecube than is necessary.

With half the userbase, and half the amount of titles released for it, the Gamecube has performed relatively above par. There's a post on this very page that suggests the idea that they re-evaluated such strong Gamecube support, because of poor sales on the other consoles. It makes sense. Porting the unique, strong titles like Viewtiful Joe and Resident Evil will boost sales on the other consoles. Especially, as you rightly point out, one of them has the largest userbase. Why limit themselves to the Gamecube?

But this is not to say their business on Gamecube has been poor.

I don't think there's going to be much from Capcom this generation after RE4, but I still think there will be very decent Nintendo support next generation. As someone else has said - games that have as high a profile as some of these Capcom games, should be multiplatform anyway.

 

[Amir0x]

What it all boils down to is that you made a blanket statement that ALL Capcom-based GC games did not meet expectations.

That clearly is not true, as both the RE remake and Mega Man Anniversary Collection met or exeeded.

What it comes down to is that I shouldn't make blanket statements.

The base point still stands, however.

Capcom has seem more than a few failures on Gamecube to the point that, as you can see from my sources, they continue to lean toward other platforms to bring in the major revenue. And to the larger point, that RE4, no matter how successful, will not be the catalyst for more support on Gamecube; only, if anything, more support on Revolution. To wit, Capcom has seen enough failure on Gamecube that they have a bad taste in their mouth. Another example of this is the "exclusive 5", which turned out to be the "not really that exclusive but still coming to Gamecube first 5...wait, make that 4." And why is this? Well, again, come to your own conclusions.

The bottom line is that they would not continually shift to PS2 support if Gamecube was serving them better. They're in business for money.

Sure, but again, Capcom's games have not seen much success on any platform lately. Gamecube's base has been at least as receptive to Capcom games as the PS2 base, perhaps even more receptive.

It's interesting that the games you listed as big Capcom successes, Onimusha 1/2 and DMC, came pretty early this generation. Seems like their profile has been slipping all-around in the past couple of years.

I'm not even arguing about whether or not Capcom is slipping. I might even agree with that statement. But actually I think the problem is they spread themselves so wide that they can't even manage to support all their products with enough advertising/budgetary resources to meet expectations. I'd suggest more focus.

I don't think you're far wrong, I don't think you'll find anyone arguing with you that PN03 tanked for example. But aside from that and RE0, there really isn't much else to speak of. Nothing that there would be lofty expectations for at any rate. I do think you're drawing a more heavily pessimistic picture with regards the Gamecube than is necessary.

With half the userbase, and half the amount of titles released for it, the Gamecube has performed relatively above par. There's a post on this very page that suggests the idea that they re-evaluated such strong Gamecube support, because of poor sales on the other consoles. It makes sense. Porting the unique, strong titles like Viewtiful Joe and Resident Evil will boost sales on the other consoles. Especially, as you rightly point out, one of them has the largest userbase. Why limit themselves to the Gamecube?

But this is not to say their business on Gamecube has been poor.

I don't think there's going to be much from Capcom this generation after RE4, but I still think there will be very decent Nintendo support next generation. As someone else has said - games that have as high a profile as some of these Capcom games, should be multiplatform anyway.

You make some valid points. That said, I don't think there has been sufficient evidence to suggest that one console has been more successful than the other in terms of ratio-ized success (i.e., userbase to software sales). But in terms of revenue, I think it goes without saying the PS2 pulls in just a bit more.

 

[MadOdorMachine]

It still shocks me that Capcom didn't increase support for the GC. I don't see why the GC couldn't get Street Fighter AC or some late ports of Onimusha and DMC. They don't have a problem releasing ports of VJ or RE4 nearly a year later on the PS2 so what's blocking them on the GC front?

Maximo seemed like a perfect fit as well.

 

[jarrod]

But whenever prompted I have backed it up.

Have a source for REmake missing expectations?

My stance is to reveal the truth, no matter the consequences. On Gamecube I have heard nothing but failed expectations.

Maybe you should look at Capcom's IR pages I keep linking to rather than scouring Gamespot and Google?

This is a good point, but we DO have a solid number. They expected it to sell 1.42 million to which RE0 sold only 1.12 million. This seems to be the most accurate, so this we can indeed put behind us - RE0 sold under expectations.

Now about REmake....

The whole argument started by making balloon statements. No one in their right mind would expect someone to find every single game, only major titles.

If someone says "every single game" has underperformed, why would the burden of proof not be on them to back such a statement up?

If Capcom's "bigger" games can't meet expectations why would I go through the trouble to prove that its smaller games didn't either?

Well, maybe because I have proved at least one "bigger" game (REmake) met expectation? We've also seen MMAC (a smaller game) did the same so there goes that trickle down theory of yours.

What was Capcom's biggest titles for Gamecube? Resident Evil 0? Viewtiful Joe? You decide. But either way both those sold under expectations according to Capcom themselves, which you can see in their press release and in various sites which reported that news.

I'd argue REmake was their biggest.... it being their best selling and most hyped GC title and all.

Jarrod at least deserves props for finding something, however weak.

Capcom IR materials are weak? No I think that's your credibility.

And that they continue to support the PS2 the most, either because it has by far the largest userbase or because they realize they can expect to meet their goals the majority of the time on that platform.

Most likely the first option given the performance of Onimusha 2-3, DMC2, RE Outbreak 2, auto modellista, Dragon Quarter, Clocktower 3, Chaos Legion and Onimusha Blade Warriors among others in various regions.

But in the end, what we were discussing was that Gamecube titles consistently do not meet expectations. And nearly every shred of evidence we have, outside of jarrod's late link, suggests that this is true.

I'd say Capcom is a pretty good source. Have better?

This seems interesting. For one, that Gamerfeed story is no longer up. For two, console-specific sites are about as trustworthy as the Iraqi Information Ministry pre-war... so Cube-Europe doesn't seem to be the BEST site to rely on for unbiased information regarding such an important matter... and I can't seem to find anything via google outside of Cube-Europe for source.

Gamerfeed seemingly lost some old links in their revisions. Cube-Europe is fairly established though... I'm not sure the problem there, outside it being format centered.

Additionally you say Gamespot reported it, and that they reported it with a different slant. Before you have some conspiratorial rant, Gamespot is much more trust worthy than Cube-Europe, I'm sorry to say. And not only that you failed to list a source for the Gamespot story, which might have put things in a different light. But then...

Well, I'd say Capcom's the most trustworthy source out there.

And here's the link to Gamespot's story, where you'll see the exact same numbers as Cube-Europe quoted btw. In fact, I think all numbers originally came from GameFront, who got them direct from Capcom's IR meeting on March 12th or 15th 2003 (which is mentioned in Capcom's IR schedule).

I have listed sources for Biohazard 0 and Viewtiful Joe failing to meet expectations. Read the thread. No, I will not find a source for every single Gamecube release - don't be freakin' ridiculous. That is not my job.

Your "job" is to back up your statements. And unless you provide a link to every GC game failing to meet expectations, you haven't come close to doing that.

Doesn't matter if I claimed something like that, because the undertaking itself would be phenomenal.

So you're justifying making broad reaching statements you don't have to back up with concrete evidence. I'll have to remember that.

If their major release failed to meet expectations why the hell would their little no name games exceed expectations? One can draw the appropriate conclusions.

Problem being you're drawing inappropriate conclusions based off slim evidence. REmake and MMAC meeting/surpassing expectations alone already disproves what your insisting.

However, based on this very post, I now admit that Resident Evil met expectations on Gamecube... and that's because you listed a viable source, where I could find none.

Y'know... that's all I really wanted.

the vast amount of titles that underperformed. Even if REMake was successful, which I now admit it was due to the source, that is not a compelling case for vast success.

Who's saying "vast success"? We're just asking you to prove "vast failure".... which you still can't by any stretch. I'm only seeing one "vast failure" in this thread, and for once it's not Capcom's doing.

Note that unlike you, however, I do not expect you to find a source for every game I did not find a source for.

Note that unlike you, however, I haven't made any sweeping generaliziations based entirely off sales of 2 lower budget games.

 

[Bishman]

The wave of hype will arrive as soon as the GC game is released. At the end of the ad when the announcer states the games rating and availability, "For Nintendo GameCube and Coming Soon to the Playstation 2 Entertainment System with exclusive features."

This is bs! It said only for Gamecube, no mention of "coming soon to the PS2."

 

[Catchpenny]

I'm not even arguing about whether or not Capcom is slipping. I might even agree with that statement.

It has a lot to do with your argument, though. If Capcom is troubled as a company and not seeing much success on any platform, then it hardly seems fair to pick on their Gamecube showing. As jarrod said, to back up your statement you need to show that Capcom's GCN games have been a vast failure overall. Merely showing a lack of vast success proves nothing, since Capcom as a whole has not seen such success recently.

The bottom line is that they would not continually shift to PS2 support if Gamecube was serving them better. They're in business for money.

Sure, but businesses are not always optimally run. Egos are present, and scapegoats are handy. It's a lot easier to blame another company's product (Gamecube doesn't sell, Xbox users hate Japanese games) than to say your product wasn't good enough or your marketing sucked. Don't we criticize Nintendo for similar bullshit, saying that the users and trends are the problem instead of their product?

Capcom's best bet recently has been milking 2D Megaman games, which is exactly where they were fifteen years ago. That's not a good sign, and it's not an indication of a well-run company.

 

[MetaKnight]

:lol :lol :lol Some major ownage here :lol :lol :lol

Now it's only big releases, which is based off opinion rather than facts :lol :lol :lol

 

[neptunes]

Have a source for REmake missing expectations?

Sorry to enter trainwreck, but I remember capcom was disappointed with the sales of RE0 (didn't meet expectations?)

Capcom Halts Development of 18 Titles
04.18.03 - 11:39 PM

Capcom has announced that the development of 18 of its 100 titles currently in development has been put on hold, following lower than expected sales of key titles throughout the last fiscal year. Among the offenders were Breath of Fire V: Dragon Quarter, Clock Tower 3 and Biohazard Zero (Resident Evil Zero). Recently released, innovative titles like Chaos Legion or P.N.03 also didn't live up to expectations and hence couldn't fill the gap.

Hence it is not surprising that Capcom has posted a worse than expected consolidated loss of 19.5 billion yen (163.07 million USD) during the fiscal year ending on March 31st 2003. Sales have totalled at 61.9 billion yen (517.65 million USD), compared to previous estimates speaking of 70.5 billion yen (589.56 million USD). For the current fiscal year, the company predicts a consolidated net profit of 4.2 billion yen (35.12 million USD) and sales of 63 billion yen (526.84 million USD).

http://rpgfan.com/news/2003/1376.html

Can't find other sources, I'll search for under a different name.