• Hey, guest user. Hope you're enjoying NeoGAF! Have you considered registering for an account? Come join us and add your take to the daily discourse.

Hawaiian poke has never been trendier. But the mainland is ruining it.

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
Absolutely not. I see you've never been to a gentrified community in a large metro area. Drain the culture, make it "marketable", get rid of all of the undesirable minorities attached to the food and culture. The conversations are intertwined.

"Get rid of all the undesirable minorities".... so you're saying you can't open a burrito shop unless you literally have Mexican ladies preparing it in the back?

This is a mad road to go down. No one can tell anyone on earth that they can't prepare and serve the food they like.


Oh course, these are probably the same people who will eat quinoa sushi.

Meanwhile the Japanese are selling pizza with egg and corn on it, and they didn't even ask Italians' permission.

Food changes hands and evolves. It's what humanity does.
 

ponpo

( ≖‿≖)
Sure because it is largely an ocean (pelagic) fish dish. But poke tends to include reef and shore fish. Both techniques mutilate the natural flavor so it's moot.

Isn't Ceviche mostly just like salt and lime? Does it "mutilate" the flavor that much? Guess it depends on how much is added but I've never had it.
 

cdyhybrid

Member
Putting fruit and corn in poke is pretty much putting A1 and ketchup on steak.

If that's how you roll, more power to you. Just be real with yourself.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
Absolutely not. I see you've never been to a gentrified community in a large metro area. Drain the culture, make it "marketable", get rid of all of the undesirable minorities attached to the food and culture. The conversations are intertwined.

Oh course, these are probably the same people who will eat quinoa sushi.

This idea, of course, comes with the assumption that certain culture is more "authentic" and worth more, with that worth primarily being driven by a hipster-like distaste of other people enjoying stuff that you like.

Cultural appropriation would happen even if people were never racist. There is no causal factor here. It's just a lot easier to get upset about people not making "your" food the way you're used to.
 
At the same time, it's always a good thing to increase everyone's knowledge so you know a little more about the origins of the trendy dishes you eat
 

Rizific

Member
Yep, noticed this years ago. Instead of just poke and rice, mainland poke joints just throw a bunch of other shit in it. It's good and all but yeah. I'll take poke over chilled sushi rice over the other shit any day.
 
"Get rid of all the undesirable minorities".... so you're saying you can't open a burrito shop unless you literally have Mexican ladies preparing it in the back?

This is a mad road to go down. No one can tell anyone on earth that they can't prepare and serve the food they like.

No, I'm saying you should respect the cultures and preparation of the food you claim to love and be inspired by. Too often, it doesn't work this way. Often enough to be a sore spot. Everything from the assertion that it's "better than" the original after you took out what made it taste good and added kale and radish or whatever, to the fact that white people are so often seen as the ultimate authority on foods that came from Asian, South American, and African sources. The ones who are "famous" chefs, have best selling cookbooks, run popular fusion restaurants, etc.It's easy to say it's "just food", because yes, food is meant to be shared, spread and passed around. But when you see the embrace of bastardized foods while everything else about your being is demonized and mocked, it's pretty shitty. See also, that white sushi chef in New York using a "funny Japanese accent" with customers.

Do you really think Japanese pizza is equivalent in power or impact to how internationally famous and popular white culture vultures have become?
 
I don't understand why people get so mad when people make food however they want to make it. If I want couscous I could serve it in a tagine but if I want I could put it in pita bread for no damn reason other than to hold it.

What is wrong with that?
 

joe2187

Banned
I don't understand why people get so mad when people make food however they want to make it. If I want couscous I could serve it in a tagine but if I want I could put it in pita bread for no damn reason other than to hold it.

What is wrong with that?

Profit.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
No, I'm saying you should respect the cultures and preparation of the food you claim to love and be inspired by. Too often, it doesn't work this way. Often enough to be a sore spot. Everything from the assertion that it's "better than" the original after you took out what made it taste good and added kale and radish or whatever, to the fact that white people are so often seen as the ultimate authority on foods that came from Asian, South American, and African sources.

These are subjective opinions. A Hawaiian native's taste buds are not superior to any random person from any other continent. They like what they like, that has no bearing on what anyone else does.
 

n0razi

Member
Best thing from Hawaii

maxresdefault.jpg
 
When I vacationed in Maui last year I got a simple bowl of shoryu poke (it's the one in the middle in the pic below) at one of the Tamura liquor stores on the island...that was some excellent ish, yo.


Other than different sauces and seasonings to one's taste, and along with some scallions and onions, that's all that poke should be.
 

Einchy

semen stains the mountaintops
These are subjective opinions. A Hawaiian native's taste buds are not superior to any random person from any other continent. They like what they like, that has no bearing on what anyone else does.

The idea had I have to respect the food's preparation by not adding anything extra is redunk.
 

Tuck

Member
Poke isn't the first, nor will it be the last.

American Chinese food and american sushi are both very different from their origins.

They all sort of follow a similar trend (particularly sushi and poke). Take the original, and super size it, add lots of unique crazy toppings. Just the american way I guess.

I'm conflicted. On one way, food (and culture in general) changes, and intermixing of cultures will create new implementations from the old, but I can also see why the original source would get upset at this, especially if they aren't the ones in control. As far as I know, american sushi and chinese developed by american japanese and chinese people, not white hipsters trying to get in on a trend using someone else's culture/food.
 
When I vacationed in Maui last year I got a simple bowl of shoryu poke (it's the one in the middle in the pic below) at one of the Tamura liquor stores on the island...that was some excellent ish, yo.



Other than different sauces and seasonings to one's taste, and along with some scallions and onions, that's all that poke should be.
Lmao as soon as I saw that display I recognized that it's from Tamura's
I worked at one for a while lol.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
No, I'm saying you should respect the cultures and preparation of the food you claim to love and be inspired by. Too often, it doesn't work this way. Often enough to be a sore spot.

In a world where 99% of ethnic restaurants are actually fetishized versions of the original culture (i.e. sushi places all have pictures of geisha and shit on the walls, Mexican places have piñatas and sombreros everywhere), I'm not worried about this at all. Most preparers of ethnic food are reverent of the original culture to a fault.

Actually I think we could use more ethnic restaurants that aren't just "it's a small world" style celebrations of each culture. I find it refreshing when a sushi place isn't another Japanworld...

Everything from the assertion that it's "better than" the original after you took out what made it taste good and added kale and radish or whatever, .

I don't care about this at all. Different cultures have different tastes. It should adapt to other cultures' local tastes.

They're doing it to American food worldwide. Did they ask our permission? Do we really care?

the fact that white people are so often seen as the ultimate authority on foods that came from Asian, South American, and African sources. The ones who are "famous" chefs, have best selling cookbooks, run popular fusion restaurants, etc.I.

I think this is only true in an American bubble of high restaurant culture meant for foodies actually dining in America. I wouldn't say white people are seen as the ultimate authority on most foreign foods worldwide, unless they are literally European or American foods.

t's easy to say it's "just food", because yes, food is meant to be shared, spread and passed around. But when you see the embrace of bastardized foods while everything else about your being is demonized and mocked, it's pretty shitty. See also, that white sushi chef in New York using a "funny Japanese accent" with customers.

Now that's a bit different. That's literally making a racist characature and it would be racist even if he wasn't selling sushi. It just makes him even more of a hypocrite for doing so.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
Isn't Ceviche mostly just like salt and lime? Does it "mutilate" the flavor that much? Guess it depends on how much is added but I've never had it.

Oh, Don't get me wrong, ceviche is almost better than the fresh fish it is made of but there's no way you can claim it's a subtle change. I mean mutilate as in drastically alter the original form of.
 

Laekon

Member
Crap like this cracks me up. How about an article on how Hawaiian's have desecrated spam by mixing it with everything or putting chocolate on macadamia nuts? Those are their foods so how dare they.
 
There's definitely a line between reverence and fetishization. I would say they co-exist in a harmony of grossness.

The idea had I have to respect the food's preparation by not adding anything extra is redunk.

You can add whatever you want. All I'm saying is that it is understandable that people from the areas where this food comes from gives a side eye. Nothing, for any non European cultural or ethic community in the US exists outside of the vacuum of imperialism. I don't mind people enjoying foods from my culture! I love it. Seriously, it'd be great to be able to find lots of ingredients outside of the tiny international sections in big grocery stores and small "ethnic" supermarkets. BUT, you can't completely separate the euro centrism and undertones of articles that declare "X is suddenly a thing now because it just got the upper middle class white seal of approval" when it's always been a thing, and the fact that those are the same people who laughed at my grandparents for their accents, traditions and way of life when they came to this country, and still don't care much for or about them.

But enjoy the food.
 

Minus_Me

Member
It's actually amazing how Poke went from totally unknown in Montreal, to basically being sold everywhere seemingly overnight.

Amazing dish
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
You can add whatever you want. All I'm saying is that it is understandable that people from the areas where this food comes from gives a side eye. Nothing, for any non European cultural or ethic community in the US exists outside of the vacuum of imperialism. I don't mind people enjoying foods from my culture! I love it. Seriously, it'd be great to be able to find lots of ingredients outside of the tiny international sections in big grocery stores and small "ethnic" supermarkets. BUT, you can't completely separate the euro centrism and undertones of articles that declare "X is suddenly a thing now because it just got the upper middle class white seal of approval" when it's always been a thing, and the fact that those are the same people who laughed at my grandparents for their accents, traditions and way of life when they came to this country, and still don't care much for or about them.

But enjoy the food.


Sure but in the specific case of poke, which this thread certainly is, it's a genuinely global food preservation recipe that shifts based on latitude and longitude based ingredients rather than (broad)culture. Lime, salt, acids, alkali.
 

finalflame

Banned
This happened to açai when it came to the U.S.

I've never fucking had it anywhere where it wasn't bastardized to shit from it's original and correct preparation (frozen açai berries, a banana, thick guaraná syrup, ice, blend). EVERYWHERE you go, it's blended with a bunch of shit that makes no fucking sense to anyone who's had the real deal.

Fuck.
 

Fuchsdh

Member
When we reach someone complaining about the cultural appropriation of empanadas or something, we will have reached peak lunacy. Because I'd love to see someone try and say with a straight face that their culture is the first one to invent "we stuck some savory stuff into something else we then fried".
 

finowns

Member
This happened to açai when it came to the U.S.

I've never fucking had it anywhere where it wasn't bastardized to shit from it's original and correct preparation (frozen açai berries, a banana, thick guaraná syrup, ice, blend). EVERYWHERE you go, it's blended with a bunch of shit that makes no fucking sense to anyone who's had the real deal.

Fuck.

OUTRAGEOUS!!
 

finalflame

Banned
OUTRAGEOUS!!

I don't care from an "appropriation" perspective, but I do care because the proper preparation is absolutely delicious and adding a bunch of shit just takes away from how good it is. I'm sure most places do it because it's cheaper to put in just about any other filler than açai due to the berry being pretty expensive to import.
 

BocoDragon

or, How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Realize This Assgrab is Delicious
There's definitely a line between reverence and fetishization. I would say they co-exist in a harmony of grossness.

I wouldn't even say it's gross. If you're going to make a restaurant about any culture, you're going to plaster a bunch of stereotypical shit on the wall. Open a Canadian restaurant and even a Canadian will start to put up maple leaves, mounties, beavers and shit.

I don't think it's required to honour the culture of the food you are serving, nor do I think it's bad if that's what you want to do.
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Poke in NYC tastes almost identical to tuna rice bowls.
 

Phu

Banned
This happened to açai when it came to the U.S.

I've never fucking had it anywhere where it wasn't bastardized to shit from it's original and correct preparation (frozen açai berries, a banana, thick guaraná syrup, ice, blend). EVERYWHERE you go, it's blended with a bunch of shit that makes no fucking sense to anyone who's had the real deal.

Fuck.

What's your context for acai? I've just known them to be a fruit.
 

joe2187

Banned
Putting couscous in pita bread is wrong because of profit?

No, do whatever you like.

But when businesses start marketing your culture without being involved or respecting it, that's when people get pissed because you're profiting from another culture without actually coming up with something on your own.
 

Stinkles

Clothed, sober, cooperative
This happened to açai when it came to the U.S.

I've never fucking had it anywhere where it wasn't bastardized to shit from it's original and correct preparation (frozen açai berries, a banana, thick guaraná syrup, ice, blend). EVERYWHERE you go, it's blended with a bunch of shit that makes no fucking sense to anyone who's had the real deal.

Fuck.

Calm your tots boo

If it was chocolate or pizza we'd have your back but ain't nobody got time for dry ass Acai.
 

finalflame

Banned
What's your context for acai? I've just known them to be a fruit.

I'm Brazilian, lived in Brazil for about half my life. I drank a lot of açai growing up by the beach in Rio. Then I moved back to the U.S. for college, and a few years into that açai became the new fad super berry. When I first heard a juice shop had açai, it was some juice shop in a mall inside of a shoe store. I was stoked, since açai was practically nonexistent in the U.S. up until then.

I decide to try a smoothie, and to my surprise it has fucking APPLE JUICE in it. What? No no, that's not how you make this, I thought. So I kindly asked the dude behind the counter if he could just make it for me with the açai, guaraná, and banana. He looked at me like I was insane, and said that's now how it's made and he didn't know what guaraná was, and it's just açai, apple juice, and some other handful of ingredients I can't recall. I asked if in that case he could just do banana, açai, and ice. Again, no, sorry, they can't prepare it that way.

So my dreams ended there. Then fast forward through the last nearly a decade, and getting açai almost ANYWHERE at these trendy "bowl" places (açai IS in fact often served in a bowl in Brazil, but that's generally the larger portion option), and it comes topped with about half a dozen to a dozen different things and blended with a million juices. Not only that, but just about every place I've been to is lacking the actual classic and delicious preparation from where it originated, Brazil. I even once found an açai food truck in SF and tried to order it classically, but was shot down. So the owner came over to have a chat since he had heard I was brazilian and his partner who owned the truck with him was brazilian too. Turns out, to sell shit in the U.S., it helps to spin it with a bunch of extra stuff on top. Just the plain jane, delicious, fruity, tarty, sweet and somewhat earthy flavor of açai in its traditional preparation won't cut it.

Anyways, my rant is over, but it's just of the same nature as what is being done with poke. People want to take something simple and delicious and fuck it with a million different necessary modifications. I think that's fine as long as you also give people who want the dish in its original preparation an option of ordering that, but most places simply think what they're doing is "better" than where the dish/whatever came from, and it's usually not.

Calm your tots boo

If it was chocolate or pizza we'd have your back but ain't nobody got time for dry ass Acai.

Dry? : O

It's supposed to look like this:

12052325.jpeg
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Yeah I remember the Acai fad. Went away pretty quickly though. We're still on kale as the popular "superfood".
 

Kieli

Member
Cultural appropriation of food is such a dumb concept. No culture "owns" a particular dish.

If I want to slap a wiener between some buns and call it a sammich, by the powers that be, I shall.
 
Top Bottom