Giving people their basic rights is not addressing the problem, its acknowledging that was the problem in the first place. Guess what happened after the slaves were freed and got the right to vote? Share cropping popped up, then Jim Crowe laws were introduced and then KKK came about and started killing and intimidating people and so on and so forth. Just because we did the bare minimum after fighting one of the worst wars in our countries history isn't addressing the problem if you ask me.
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HBO Boss Regrets Announcement of Confederate, but Not its Concept
- Thread starter ElectricBlanketFire
- Start date
Giving people their basic rights is not addressing the problem, its acknowledging that was the problem in the first place. Guess what happened after the slaves were freed and got the right to vote? Share cropping popped up, then Jim Crowe laws were introduced and then KKK came about and started killing and intimidating people and so on and so forth. Just because we did the bare minimum after fighting one of the worst wars in our countries history isn't addressing the problem if you ask me.
What good is the right to vote if you've been warned not to vote for threat of violence, your ballot office is five hours away, they need three forms of id, etc.
Right to Vote only as useful as your ability to do it unimpeded.
Abolishment of slavery only useful if you're no longer a slave in the eyes of your oppressor.
Meaningful measures on paper ain't worth shit.
Where did I attack you, what are you talking about?
Temeculan3000
Member
What exactly are you trying to get at?
Youth Crew
Member
Its easy to see why after reading this.
We don't need a show about how "the confederacy won" when we're still dealing with the fallout of the civil war and the lack of commitment to really enforce it.
Black people were freed and America has been spending countless amounts of time trying to make them regret it.
The end of slavery and the south's idiocy was dealt with kids glove. We don't need an alt history "boy, we really dodged the bullet eh?" show when the state and public is all too willing to turn a blind eye when black people get mowed down and dehumanized to this day.
That is becoming increasingly obvious in this thread.
My question was quite straight forward. "Where did I attack you, what are you talking about?"
I don't know what to tell you guys anymore. I feel like I've made it pretty clear in this thread that I am in full agreement about how the ways we deal with racism, both in the past and today, has still left things on every level far below satisfactory for black people in this country, from voting access to socio-economic status to the goddamn police. I feel like I have made this point clearly many times in many posts already. But if you don't believe that, or believe that the United States has literally done nothing in its history to address racism and slavery -- which is the only statement in this argument that I took issue with -- then fine. I give up. I can't keep writing the same thing over and over again, and if I haven't been able to convince you that I am truly in agreement with you on everything but the idea that we've done literally nothing to address racism or slavery in our history, then I guess I can't do it.
So do you still think Man in the High Castle an apt comparison?
Temeculan3000
Member
If you say you didn't then I accept that. I am asking what are you trying to get at with your posts? What is the point you are trying to make?
Who is preventing it? Why did you even need to point that out?
You seem to think I did, so by all means point out exactly where I was attacking you.
Temeculan3000
Member
I just said I moved past that.
It appeared to me that you were ascribing some viewpoint to me that I didn't hold. And attempting to bait me into some sort of gotcha. Just by the tone of your posts. If you deny that then I accept that. But then I am still curious what your objective was?
I asked you a simple question and nothing more, yet my "tone" made you think I was baiting you? Yeah I am sure it was my "tone" that you have issue with.
What did he mean by this?
Member
Thank you for this insight. I see why you are the TV expert
I thought it was interesting at first but after looking into it, started to turn against it pretty fast myself.
If you're a pasty white guy like me, it sounds kind of harmless at the beginning but if you're black and still understandably pissed about getting fucked over in 2017 by the government and police, I imagine not so much.
Seems to me like people ran with the hypothetical potential problems of these depictions and basically then complained about those made up hypothetical issues. The show has potential to be terrible, tasteless, and insensitive. But all the complaints I see about it are made on assumptions of what the show will be. For example , "cool slave hunters". Like where did people get that the show will have slave hunters that are portrayed as awesome, and that people will idolize them? Or that the hero of the story will be white? I see where y'all are coming from and I agree that odds are it's gonna be handled horribly, but I don't get how you go from this cautious pessimism to outright complaining about these things that we made up as things that could easily go wrong. It could very easily end up being that it shits on white people and they are the ones that get pissed off and complain that the show is reverse racist when it airs, labeling it as more liberal propaganda. IDK maybe I'm just out of the loop on this one
Temeculan3000
Member
Please spell it out then. What are you accusing me of?
"What if white people in America held all the power and people of color were treated like dirt" seems like a great premise to you?
Boy, don't they ever.
Also, regretting the announcement of this piece of shit, WS What-If WETDREAM, but not the ACTUAL show doesn't seem like much in the way of regret, TBH.
Because TV media, in no way, has ever had an influence on the masses. Stop playing dumb.
With D&D running this, there is a good chance the star of the show will be white. Most likely the white savior trope.
The only person doing the accusing is you. There was clearly no "tone" to my posts yet I am somehow bating you? You okay am I sure my "tone" was the issue. Anyway I am done responding to this nonsense.
I would've hoped in the world of Trump people would realize that something being fictional doesn't mean it's innocuous.
Temeculan3000
Member
Great trolling today. 10/10 would post again.
Yeah.... probably...
You're making the mistake of thinking that NeoGAF threads reflect the evolving intellect of a single mind when in reality it's a bunch of people with different opinions joining different conversations at different times and who don't read all previous threads nor even posts within a thread. Why don't you just explain to them why you think its wrong, instead of assuming your opinion is a foregone conclusion that was already reached by consensus on NeoGAF and that everyone is stupid that hasnt reached that consensus along with you by reading arguments in a previous thread? I've been in quite a few of these threads and I've yet to see some definitive subjective answer that should have halted everyone asking about why this is frowned upon and having the audacity to compare it to other alternate history tv shows, like that's crazy for them to dare to do.
If there isn't going to be a anti-hero white slave hunter that's also attractive; if there isn't attempts to show emotionally strained slave owners who don't do shit but are more or less relatable, I'll stop coming to this site. Straight up.
Battlezone
Member
How can you complain about people criticising this show without having seen it, then say that it's "obviously" not going to be pro-slavery...without having seen it?
Ok, I mean it's likely, but where is this coming from? Lol Im just confused as to where people are getting all this info
Their body of work in GoT as well as their statements regarding the show so far make a pretty good case to me about what will happen.
Ah...i'm on ep. 6 of GoT maybe that's why I'm out of the loop
It's a slow about slavery, do you think there won't be slave hunters?
Also, I remember there being talk of handling both sides with "nuance" so I think that's where people got the whole "sympathetic, conflicted slave owner" thing.
John Rabbit
Banned
Pack it up, we're done.
I still dont get the hate, I mean it depends what they do with it. They need to be extremely sensitive with a concept like that, but if done right it can be very interesting.
The man in the high castle is a good implementation of a similar ideia, but that could have gone sideways very easily.
Will cautiously watch.
The man in the high castle is a good implementation of a similar ideia, but that could have gone sideways very easily.
Will cautiously watch.
KimonoNoNo
Member
Well duh.
Is that even a question; Of Course that's exactly who they're aiming at.
D&D took the only House in GOT/ASOIAF that had brown people (House Martell) and wrote them like trash outside of Oberyn. The Dothraki, who are all brown, are all pretty interchangeable, barely get lines, and are never developed past being portrayed a bunch of raping savages until Dany, who is basically treated almost like a white savior on the show, comes along and somehow magically stops this. It's especially noticeable when comparing Jon's journey with the Widlings which almost parallels Dany's journey with the Dothraki except for the fact that the Wildings are actually developed and treated like characters (and surprise they all happen to be white! Although this is also a problem with the Dothraki and the books too).
There was also this:
So yeah...I think people have valid concerns about being worried.
You should read the thread.
Massive Duck. C.M.
Banned
Anyone else remember that the descendant of a confederate general named for confederate generals who was once deemed to racist for office is now the Attorney General?
Yeah, the confederacy really lost
Yeah, the confederacy really lost
SaviourMK2
Member
I have to say, I've written at least two paragraphs at least three times trying to argue in favor of the show only to constantly re-evaluate my thoughts in fear of shooting myself in the foot.
I agree, the title is.... maybe a little inaccurate, but I'm giving the show a chance because I love alternate history.
I agree, the title is.... maybe a little inaccurate, but I'm giving the show a chance because I love alternate history.
More_Badass
Member
I believe the point that people are making is that alternate history implies that the world presented isn't like our own, that it presents something worse or better or different, that lets us reflect upon our time through contrast.
Except our world today and the kind of alternate history where slavery and the Confederacy still exists today are so similar, that presenting such as an alternate history, distant and different from our own history, comes across as a tone-deaf slap in the face
I don't think this is guaranteed to be awful, but I'm surprised that they're sticking with after so much backslash.
Now that's something I very much doubt. This is hardly going to celebrate racism
From a cynical perspective, no show the year Confederacy comes out will have more think pieces written about it. It will be the show everyone is talking about which, from HBO's perspective, is good. As long as you subscribe to the theory that there's no such thing as bad publicity.
Now, will it last more than one season? Who knows. But I'm guessing it's worth the financial risk for one season.
Read the thread.
Stiler
Member
Do you honestly think HBO would even let the idea move forward if that were the case?
No way in hell would they touch it with a 10 foot pole if they thought it was a pro-slavery show or story idolizing slavery and the people for it.
They probably wouldn't pitch it like that. However, to say that a work cannot eventually take on unintended messages through the framing of its characters and conflicts is silly. Like, seriously, no one sets out to make shit, but magically shit gets made all the time.
Baraka Obama
Banned
HBO has seriously been struggling to make compelling TV for years. They made stuff like Westworld from a super interesting idea to a by the numbers drama. My guess is that theyll just never mention the show again or change the name because first impressions are everything and this doesnt bode well for it.
Westworld was a by-the-numbers drama? HBO struggles to make compelling TV? This post is the exact opposite of reality. I don't know how you came to either of those conclusions. How many sex robot cowboy shows with
hidden flashback sequences