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HDMI video support for next-gen consoles

S

Shawn

Banned
Do you think it's likely Sony, Microsoft and Nintendo will offer HDMI cables for their upcoming consoles? With HDTVs becoming more and more popular, don't you think it would make sense for the console makers to offer the absolute best in video support technology?

As much as I love component video, I hope (and expect) to say goodbye to it once Xbox 2, PS3, and "Revolution" come out.

Any thoughts?
 
Eh, somehow I doubt it. I mean, maybe on the Xbox 2, but Nintendo didn't even put a digital audio out on the GC, and they've removed the digital video out from all 'Cubes currently being produced. Cheap bastards. Freakin' get with the times, Nintendo.
 
Well since the next-gen systems are supposed to do HD-DVD and blu-ray, the answer must be yes. The real issue is that HDMI/DVI chips from Silicon Image are going add additional cost for what will clearly be a small portion of the userbase. If the accountants say no, hopefully there will be a way to implement it as an add-on.
 
You could do HDMI cables right now if anyone wanted to bother with the cost of in-betweening an HDMI encoder between say an Xbox and the HD set. It would be expensive though and right now, you'd be adding unecessary security features to a security free video signal. It's likely that if demand for the nice all-in one nature of the cable increases, so will the likelihood of first or third party cables/adapters.

Also, somebody might want to try this (although it would be v. ugly and pointless): Plug a VGA cable from an Xbox VGA adapter into a DVI adapter, and then plug the DVI adapter into and HDMI adapter. That might actually ptoduce a video signal.
 
Certainly.

They better ship with at least component cables.

HD out the box!

Plug a VGA cable from an Xbox VGA adapter into a DVI adapter, and then plug the DVI adapter into and HDMI adapter. That might actually ptoduce a video signal.
Click to expand...

Turn-around city. The weight would be bad for the connector(s).
 
Stinkles, the point of the wanting HDMI is not the single-cable connection, but the all-digital signal quality. That's the key issue.

As sad as it sounds, I don't think they'll even ship with S-Video cables. Of the 74M PlayStation 2's sold world wide, I'd guess that less than 5% are connected to component or S-Video cables.
 
HDMI is no better than DVI for video - it's just DVI + audio - something to consider..

I certainly hope they do include. I do believe Nintendo, oddly, said that they would have DVI-out on revolution and that you'll be able to connect it to computer monitors. This was said at one of their last few conferences or shareholder meetings, apparently, but it seems like a fairly odd thing for them to just throw out there.

edit - but certainly, they won't provide them in the box. DVI cables are still quite expensive and they need to cater to the lowest common denominator (composite).
 
HDMI with HDCP might be mandated by the studios for copy protection. IMO if that happened, the cost would be too high for standard consoles that may never use the connection.

You'd see 'HD DVD' kits that have the necessary bolt on bit at the back, with the necessary protection - and costing $30-50.
 
They will have a proprietary connector that can be broken out with a $34.99 "adapter" to be DVI, component, or HDMI depending on your cabling choice. There will be a simple cable in the box that breaks out SVIDEO or composite. All cables will have a break out for analog audio, but digital audio will be a seperate port.

3 months after launch generic competitor cables will be on eBay for $2.99 that do the same thing. Threads here will argue if $55 monster cables are necessary for DVI and/or HDMI. People with the monster cables will swear their picture is improved.

Guessing, but something similar is likely on all three.
 
XENON and PS3 will almost certainly require HDMI out for playing games in HD res....

There will be options for playing these games on non-DTVs with lower quality connections (Component, Svideo, Compsite and RF) *BUT* I would imagine the >MOST< you will see these games being displayed at would be 480p, even with component.....


No, if you select 720p or 1080i/p video output on these next-gen consoles (either for games or movies) that stuff will be via HDMI...

Keep in mind, the plan is to place some game related extras on BRD/HD-DVD movie disks...and the only way to see those movies in HD will be via HDMI...

Sorry guys....
 
As long as I can plug my consoles into my DVI port and get the best picture possible (well, up to 1080i), I'll be happy.
 
Error Macro said:
Eh, somehow I doubt it. I mean, maybe on the Xbox 2, but Nintendo didn't even put a digital audio out on the GC, and they've removed the digital video out from all 'Cubes currently being produced. Cheap bastards. Freakin' get with the times, Nintendo.
Click to expand...

Which means they could have had DVi support this gen if they wanted to.

It will be interesting what output sockets get chosen. Nintendo are saying it will plug into moniters which makes me think one socket and you have to use plug in adaptors for it. Console comes with analogue adaptor?
 
In the near-future my HDMI up-converting DVD player (mabye...still thinking about it), PS3, XBox 2, Revolution (?), Blu-Ray/HD-DVD player and HDTV will all be competing for the single HDMI port on my LCD rear-projection...yikes. Newer high-end premium HDTV sets are barely coming out with 2 HDMI ports.

Currently a 2-port HDMI switch costs like freakin $250+....once all this HDMI-enabled tech comes out multi-HDMI switches better be dang affordable by then.
 
In the UK HDMI is considered premium. Only afew tv sets support it. Not many even support component video here.
 
Kleegamefan said:
XENON and PS3 will almost certainly require HDMI out for playing games in HD res....

There will be options for playing these games on non-DTVs with lower quality connections (Component, Svideo, Compsite and RF) *BUT* I would imagine the >MOST< you will see these games being displayed at would be 480p, even with component.....


No, if you select 720p or 1080i/p video output on these next-gen consoles (either for games or movies) that stuff will be via HDMI...

Keep in mind, the plan is to place some game related extras on BRD/HD-DVD movie disks...and the only way to see those movies in HD will be via HDMI...

Sorry guys....
Click to expand...

I've only got 1 HDMI port on my TV and that's why my cable box is hooked up to. No fucking way am I going to support a console that forces me to connect it to my TV via HDMI to get full 720p or 1080i content.
 
^^

You know they make receivers with HDMI switching...

Just get a digital receiver.
 
gofreak said:
As long as I can plug my consoles into my DVI port and get the best picture possible (well, up to 1080i), I'll be happy.
Click to expand...


The "problem" with DVI is that it's unencrypted. The reason you don't see DVD players with DVI out is that the MPAA is terrirified of people making "bit-perfect" copies of movies.* Considering that both the X2 and PS3 are expected to play HD movies, I'd doubt they'd ever make an official DVI connector.


*you know, instead of just burning the DVD on a computer with a dual-layer drive, which would be the easy way.
 
Kleegamefan said:
XENON and PS3 will almost certainly require HDMI out for playing games in HD res....

There will be options for playing these games on non-DTVs with lower quality connections (Component, Svideo, Compsite and RF) *BUT* I would imagine the >MOST< you will see these games being displayed at would be 480p, even with component.....


No, if you select 720p or 1080i/p video output on these next-gen consoles (either for games or movies) that stuff will be via HDMI...

Keep in mind, the plan is to place some game related extras on BRD/HD-DVD movie disks...and the only way to see those movies in HD will be via HDMI...

Sorry guys....
Click to expand...

Kelly I wanted to know about Xenon and PS3, how certain are you that both units will output to 1080P?
 
Both Revolution and Xbox 2 will connect to computer monitors. Nothing has been said about what kind of output is supported exactly. Some speculate VGA, but personally I feel DVI/HDMI makes much more sense as they are also for tvs. And VGA being analog is quite simply obsolete.

PS3 with it's BRD support is also likely to have a digital video output.
 
DaCocoBrova said:
^^

You know they make receivers with HDMI switching...

Just get a digital receiver.
Click to expand...

Why should I be forced to spend $300+ on a receiver with digital switching? I don't understand why 720p or 1080i content will not be output through the component cables, and they would force you to use an all-digital connection when a high-bandwidth analog connection is "good enough" visual quality for me. I don't understand how protecting the digital output of a video game console makes any sense. If they're worried about it for HD-DVD or blu-ray, I don't care. But I'm not going to buy a console that doesn't let me take advantage of my current HDTV.
 
Of ocurse they cant let go of analogue. Hell they still sell tv's that support aerial. Its the cheapest way to watch tv for many. there's suppossed to be an anologue switch off in most countries eventually.
 
WordofGod said:
Kelly I wanted to know since both Xenon and PS3 how certain are you that both units will output to 1080P?
Click to expand...
There seems to be a consensus within the dev community that 720p will be the standard. Xbox 2 has a built-in scaler that will output to 1080p (or other resolutions) if so desired.
 
I understand why they would only allow HD movies and television over the digital connections, but why would they limit playing games at higher resolutions to the digital outputs? I don't see what copyright issues there would be for playing games at 720p/1080i over component. Am I missing something?
 
DaCocoBrova said:
They better ship with at least component cables.
Click to expand...


not gonna happen

theyre still going to ship with composite


most consumers just buy a rf adaptor by default never even realizing that even cheap tvs made in the last how ever many years have s-video inputs
 
Why should I be forced to spend $300+ on a receiver with digital switching? I don't understand why 720p or 1080i content will not be output through the component cables, and they would force you to use an all-digital connection when a high-bandwidth analog connection is "good enough" visual quality for me. I don't understand how protecting the digital output of a video game console makes any sense. If they're worried about it for HD-DVD or blu-ray, I don't care. But I'm not going to buy a console that doesn't let me take advantage of my current HDTV.
Click to expand...

I suppose its a good thing that you have already made your decision because you will *NOT* be able to watch BRD or HD-DVD HD 720/1080 content (be it movies or games) over an un-encrypted, non-HDCP video output...

Some BRD/HD-DVD players (perhaps even most) will not even have component video outs (Composite, Svideo and HDMI only) and indeed the Toshiba and Sanyo HD-DVD prototypes @ CES had no component video outs...

For better or worse, this is the way it will be so you might as well draw your lines now....
 
Kleegamefan said:
I suppose its a good thing that you have already made your decision because you will *NOT* be able to watch BRD or HD-DVD HD 720/1080 content (be it movies or games) over an un-encrypted, non-HDCP video output...

Some BRD/HD-DVD players (perhaps even most) will not even have component video outs (Composite, Svideo and HDMI only) and indeed the Toshiba and Sanyo HD-DVD prototypes @ CES had no component video outs...

For better or worse, this is the way it will be so you might as well draw your lines now....
Click to expand...

and the erosion of consumer rights continues ....

Like I said, there's no reason why they can't include component connections but disable those for movie playback. I'm sick of corporate America trampling our rights as consumers. Maybe I'll buy it when the HDCP content protection is cracked and I can buy an adaptor.

Edit: This wouldn't be such a big deal if current TVs were actually being sold with more than 1 HDMI input (there's a few that have 2, but not many - and they're all very high end). It's ridiculous that they're going to FORCE you to buy a $200+ HDMI switcher to run multiple inputs on TVs in the future.
 
There's this 2-port HDMI switcher that's currently out:

hdmi-front.jpg

hdmi-back.jpg


Thing is, though, it's too expensive ($249) and it's ugly. =P

When HDMI products become more commonplace in the (near) future, hopefully there will be more affordable HDMI switching options. I remember having to special order S-video switch boxes back in the days for $75+ (like the ASCII AV Selector) =P

EDIT: There's also a 4-port HDMI switch coming out soon...but it's $399 and still ugly =P
 
The End said:
The "problem" with DVI is that it's unencrypted. The reason you don't see DVD players with DVI out is that the MPAA is terrirified of people making "bit-perfect" copies of movies.
Click to expand...

You mean you don't see DVD players like this?:
B00009RTBX.01.PT01._SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg


That's the back of the Samsung DVD-HD931 (which I own). One of at least several on the market with DVI output.

Honestly, I think there are more HDTV's out there with HDCP DVI than there are those that have HDCP-less DVI. As someone else pointed out, they'll sell you an adapter for HDMI->DVI (HDCP) and you'll be fine. There was at least a full model year in TV's when there were almost no HDTV's being released with HDMI but most were being released with HDCP DVI, so I wouldn't worry about it too much.

Also, what is everyone so worked up about 1080p all of a sudden for? The sets that do it are still unbelievably expensive, and no networks (that I know of) have even hinted at supporting it since it's such a bandwidth hog. I bet we don't see any support for this format (excepting perhaps one or two token titles like we have 1080i on Xbox this gen) until Xbox3/PS4...
 
Eh, somehow I doubt it. I mean, maybe on the Xbox 2, but Nintendo didn't even put a digital audio out on the GC, and they've removed the digital video out from all 'Cubes currently being produced. Cheap bastards. Freakin' get with the times, Nintendo.
Click to expand...

Seeing how the Xbox 2 is expected to be the first out, I don't see why it would be the most likely.

From prior experience, I would assume Revolution wouldn't have it - but Nintendo may be moving in a new direction?

Sony is the most likely canditate imo, with MS coming in at number 2. At a minimum, both will have DVI. Actually I would think Revolution will even havec that.
 
It's ridiculous that they're going to FORCE you to buy a $200+ HDMI switcher to run multiple inputs on TVs in the future.
Click to expand...

Beyond switchers going down in price, and the fact we'll see them in low end receivers soon - why wouldn't TV's eventually have more than one input? A few years back, most HDTVs had either one dual-purpose Component input, or one 480i and one 480p/1080i.
 
Inumaru said:
Also, what is everyone so worked up about 1080p all of a sudden for? The sets that do it are still unbelievably expensive, and no networks (that I know of) have even hinted at supporting it since it's such a bandwidth hog. I bet we don't see any support for this format (excepting perhaps one or two token titles like we have 1080i on Xbox this gen) until Xbox3/PS4...
Click to expand...

It's just that it should be very easy to support as the fill rate for 720p and 1080p isn't that different. Might as well support it as by the end of this console’s lifespan it should be everywhere.
 
gohepcat said:
It's just that it should be very easy to support as the fill rate for 720p and 1080p isn't that different. Might as well support it as by the end of this console’s lifespan it should be everywhere.
Click to expand...

Actually, 720p is 1280 x 768= 983040 pixels

while 1080p is 1920 x 1080=2073600 pixels,

or more than twice the number of pixels. So while I'm sure 1080p is doable in any of the next-gen consoles, I don't know that it will necessarily be "very easy" for developers to implement without visual quality loss in one form or another.
 
I'm really annoyed about HDCP. Its likely that when Sky launch HD in the UK, they will use a HDCP connection. Now almost *no* displays support that in the UK right now.

I've just paid a lot for a nice HD capable LCD screen. It will support 720p natively, and 1080i (downscaled). But it only has component/VGA inputs. As do most panels on sale at the moment.

So although by the time HD launches there will already be HD sets out there, almost none will actually be able to use the service. Thats fucked up, and could easily backfire on the companies pushing to include HDCP as a mandatory requirement.
 
Kleegamefan:

I have been looking @ some upconverting DVD players, like the MOMITSU DVD-V880-DX PLAYER SUPPORT 480P & 720P & 1080i (HDTV). I know you out of all people would know. Will the Xbox2 or PlayStation3 upconvert like the MOMITSU DVD player that I mentioned above? If you know for sure that they will upconvert I will hold off buying the MOMITSU DVD player, but if they do not I will buy the MOMITSU DVD today.
 
I would say no at this time. The audience for HDMI is even smaller than those doing DVI. It would be nice because it decreases the number of cables you have to deal with, and I guess it would be nice to sell expensive cables on launch day - but I would venture a guess that if they are doing anything it would be DVI and not HDMI. They'd be WAAAAY ahead of the adoption curve if they did this.
 
I hope it supports both HDMI and DVI, but both of them, no goddamn converter inbetween, my TV only has DVI. Also, the audio next my to DVI input are red and white, so its analog audio? Are HDMI's audio input inside it analog aswell? Would be weird if you ask me, if someone bothers to pay for higher quality and go with DVI or HDMI, you would think he would care as much for audio and go with optical cables for digital..
 
HDMI is going to happen. Essentailly the new scart. Has loads of support.

P.S Sky have selected HDMI. For the UK'ers. You can do it with DVI as well apparently.
 
Inumaru said:
Also, what is everyone so worked up about 1080p all of a sudden for? The sets that do it are still unbelievably expensive, and no networks (that I know of) have even hinted at supporting it since it's such a bandwidth hog. I bet we don't see any support for this format (excepting perhaps one or two token titles like we have 1080i on Xbox this gen) until Xbox3/PS4...
Click to expand...

This is supposed to be the big take-off year for 1080p. Much of the sets shown at CES were 1080p based and with the massive price drops coming this year in large part due to a good number of chineese companies entering the plasma an LCD space, 1080p will be 'real' from the display perspective by the end of 2005. With 1080p LCD flat panels at 37 inches expected by the end of the year for $2500 - who knows :)


Source
 
1080p is entering a tad late in the game for hardware manufacturers to take it into account for their framebuffers and all that for consoles, plus, isnt it limited to 30fps? Thats not a problem for movies but i expect more than that from next gen consoles, im sure im not the only one. I think 720p and 1080i will be standard support with xenon.
 
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