bigtroyjon
Member
So the cops shouldn't act based on 911 calls? They should only go after criminals they personally witness committing a crime?
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Headshot, Scottsdale Police Officer: Killstreak 7
- Thread starter Miggytronz
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Miggytronz
Member
You realize how saying that you hope the OP gets shot in the head makes you look, right.
Mammoth Jones
Member
Um, don't pull guns on people and no one will call the cops and tell them you have a gun.
The cops had a report that this dude had a gun. They don't want the guy to go back inside with the baby and a gun and have a hostage situation. Or a murder/suicide. Now, unless they didn't order him to remain where he was...I just don't know.
That's the *BEST* I can give this guy. If you're willing to kick over a garbage can then point a fucking gun at someone...the cops are going to assume you're on edge. Considering a baby was in his possession they most likely didn't want him to go back inside alone with a baby...and a gun...
Oh, and never reach in your pockets unless you make it VERY clear what you're reaching for and do it SLOW. I learned this shit when I was 9....
But then again, yea...that cop is trigger happy like a mofo...lol
So yea...I just don't know about this.
The cops had a report that this dude had a gun. They don't want the guy to go back inside with the baby and a gun and have a hostage situation. Or a murder/suicide. Now, unless they didn't order him to remain where he was...I just don't know.
That's the *BEST* I can give this guy. If you're willing to kick over a garbage can then point a fucking gun at someone...the cops are going to assume you're on edge. Considering a baby was in his possession they most likely didn't want him to go back inside alone with a baby...and a gun...
Oh, and never reach in your pockets unless you make it VERY clear what you're reaching for and do it SLOW. I learned this shit when I was 9....
But then again, yea...that cop is trigger happy like a mofo...lol
So yea...I just don't know about this.
Tha Robbertster
Member
So he can shoot the guy in the head, but the knees are an impossible target?
bigtroyjon
Member
All he had to do was respond to the police officers in front of his house instead of retreating back inside. They didn't just roll up and shoot him sight unseen.
The guy is shielding his head with the baby, it's a dangerous situation.
Keylime
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
scar tissue
Banned
Guy should be fired, and investigations reopened on all cases
Helicopter Online!
ice cold, i love it
Pretty much sums up how I feel.
There was no perfect solution for this situation. Don't point guns at your neighbors or shit could get cray I guess
One in every thread...
Mammoth Jones
Member
Highly doubt that was the case. Now we're going to rally against 911 calls....seriously?
Miggytronz
Member
Even a 911 call is enough to put a red flag on someone. Especially if the caller is in fear of their life.
Cops arent trained to down people like that. We've been through this on GAF before. Cops are trained to hit the upper torso.
If you can't handle it you shouldn't have the job. PERIOD
I don't think cops should act according to all 911 calls. I remember friends that used to crankcall them when they were kids.
But it was the dude's fault for having a black cellphone.
<3 my white iPhone.
Keylime
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
But the cop didn't see a gun. The probable cause in this situation is the word of someone else over the phone that he had a gun...and even if he DID have a gun, the cop had no idea what the guy was doing. He wasn't threatening anyone at that point...he was walking back into his house and got greased.
Not saying it isn't true, but as some people are pointing out...letting this fly is basically like admitting that actual evidence isn't required to gun people down anymore.
I think it was also about ensuring he couldn't hurt the baby.
Miggytronz
Member
Classy..........just classy.
Act? No. Go after? No. Kill? Yes. I can't believe you'd want it any other way.
Somebody might get pissed at you for a small reason, call 911 and say you have a gun and threatened people with it. According to anyone siding with the cop in this thread, it'd then be 100% acceptable for the gun to shoot you without even checking the facts.
The caller wasn't in fear of their life by the time officer arrived, if he ever was. The officer had zero reason to suspect harm was going to come to the baby. The officer had zero proof or credible evidence the guy had a gun.
Seriously, if a call is all it takes to "put a red flag on someone", you have a problem with your system right there. Kids make prank calls to cops. People lie to 911 dispatchers for stupid reasons. People are often simply mistaken. Shit happens. Law enforcement is not the army; they should be required to check before they kill. Else it's just murder.
Miggytronz
Member
I hope your friends realize now that thats a federal offense.
bigtroyjon
Member
He was threatening the baby by using it as a shield for his head.
Except he wasn't holding a gun.
So... if I hold a baby in front of my face, expect to get shot in the face?
They saw what looked like a weapon. They already heard there was a weapon. Close enough imo...
I don't want every cop to wait on ALL the evidence before making a decision. Real world situations don't work like that. This was questionable. But I'm okay with the call tbh.
In a hostage situation where the aggressor has a deadly weapon, if the decision is made to take out the aggressor, they're not trying to wound him. The idea is to neutralize the threat in order to keep the hostage safe. If you aim for the knees, those are fairly hard to hit, and there's a good chance that the aggressor would start firing and you'd have to put him down, while probably not having the hostage out of the way.
The idyllic world that some of you live in. I wish I lived there.
RumblingRosco
Member
His upper body was exposed. Shoot him in the damn shoulder, torso, anywhere but the damn brain and he'd maybe have had a chance to survive.
This was never a hostage situation.
Angry Fork
Member
I don't know how people don't realize this. It's blowing my mind but gaf has a defense force for anything so whatever. I need to stay out of police threads from now on the stress/rage is too annoying.
bigtroyjon
Member
I hope you really aren't this dumb. Guy is using a baby as a shield and holding something that looks like a gun from 18 feet away. He ignores the police and then proceeds to go back into the house.
Cops didn't just roll up and kill the guy.
Miggytronz
Member
This.
The real point of this story again......................Dont do stupid shit like the now dead suspect and your Life will be dandy.
ProfessorLobo
Banned
Nothing is worse than readying stories about kids getting fucked up. Soooooooooo... I'm not going to complain. If the guy had gone back inside, raped/mutilated the baby, and got taken in after the fact - it'd be a "why didn't you stop him when you had the chance?" type thing.
oh yay, now we get to play CSI through the poorly written article and third hand statements
That's true. It's very likely that this man would have went straight to his neighbor and murdered him, and then his whole family as well. After that he probably would have worked up an appetite, and since the baby was right next to him... I don't even want to think about it. The police officer is an American hero.
brb, calling police to tell them you have a weapon on you. Will put "I'm okay with the call" on your tombstone.
You should hold your police force to higher standards than killing someone because of a call claiming they did "stupid shit".
RumblingRosco
Member
In what way is he using the baby as a shield? HOW DARE THE GRANDFATHER HOLD HIS GRANDCHILD IN HIS ARM, CLEARLY HE MUST BE USING THE CHILD AS A SHIELD.
There isn't even any information regarding if the officers attempted to speak with the man. The report simply shows that they were outside his house ~18 feet away and they shot him in/near his doorway.
Keylime
ÏÎ¯Î»Ï á¼Î¾ÎµÏÎγλοÏÏον καί ÏεÏδολÏγον οá½Îº εἰÏÏν
So you're cool if your neighbor calls the cops on you saying that you threatened them with a gun...then the cops showing up at your house and see you holding a pepper shaker and SHOOT YOU IN THE HEAD?!
You can't kill someone based on the word of someone on the phone without actual evidence. To suggest otherwise is absolute chaos. There's no way you agree with that.
You need a higher killstreak for that.
Obviously we don't know the details. How much of his upperbody was exposed? Would aiming at his upper body endanger the child? Etc. etc. I think that they were in the mindset of preventing a hostage situation from occuring in the first place, since then things get radically more difficult.
Tha Robbertster
Member
But there was no hostage situation, and there was no confirmation that the guy a weapon.
Nope, the Cop made the wrong choice in this matter and should be removed from duty.
I would not want a cop like that anywhere near my neighborhood.
ProfessorLobo
Banned
I know what you mean.
Mammoth Jones
Member
1. It doesn't work that way in the real world. You shoot to STOP a perceived threat. Believe it or not, someone could be shot in a shoulder and still do harm. Once the decision was made to use *deadly* force they're shooting to kill. If they don't feel the situation warrants the use of deadly force they shouldn't use their guns, period.
2. If it's true the dude used the baby to shield his head/chest (Which it's *VERY* possible the cops could lie) then it absolutely was a hostage situations.
3. Speaking of shoulders...all cops should be required to wear tamper proof shoulder mounted cameras so we have some footage when shit like this goes on.
Is there a video of this?
41 shots.
Please cite the statute or regulation so that I may become better informed.
What's Obama up to now? I lost count.
RumblingRosco
Member
Why is there any concern for this being a hostage situation? I've seen parents get in fights with other people then go about their day with their kid in-tow; is that parent planning on holding their own child/grandchild hostage just because they were threatening or violent earlier in the day?
I literally see no reason for anyone to consider this a hostage situation given the details. Where is this argument even coming from, the "rescue the baby" comment in the article?
fabricated backlash
Member
Cop shoots person... seems to be about standard procedure for US policeforces these days. Also the guy totally deserved getting shot probably. The poor policemen was seriously put under stress because going back inside the house could've killed an orphanage.
Also, risking to shoot the baby in the progress is worth it, as long as someone bites the dust right. I mean you'll hear endless defenses for cops not being able to hit someone in the knee, but they are more than capable of landing a headshot without risking to hit a baby that's just beneath it.
You guys are hypocrits, defending an organization that has become increasingly fascist over the years, tolerating obvious mentally unstable persons unfit for service, and I'm not even sure why anyone would defend people of such poor judgement.
Is it fear of admitting your "safety" is being put into the hands of lunatics with guns and a license to shoot on sight, or is it simple misanthropic disregard for human life?
Also, risking to shoot the baby in the progress is worth it, as long as someone bites the dust right. I mean you'll hear endless defenses for cops not being able to hit someone in the knee, but they are more than capable of landing a headshot without risking to hit a baby that's just beneath it.
You guys are hypocrits, defending an organization that has become increasingly fascist over the years, tolerating obvious mentally unstable persons unfit for service, and I'm not even sure why anyone would defend people of such poor judgement.
Is it fear of admitting your "safety" is being put into the hands of lunatics with guns and a license to shoot on sight, or is it simple misanthropic disregard for human life?
PoweredBySoy
Banned
Probably like every other person in this thread that says the victim deserved it.
He had a baby in his arms, whether you want to call that a hostage situation or not, that's your call I guess. And it was reported that he had a gun, he ignored cops, allegedly raised a black object.
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