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[Gambit2483]

No she didn't. The creatives, developers and marketers at Platinum created that character, built all of the world and lore around her, built every facet of her character including defining the mannerisms and accent for which they then went out and cast a contractor to speak the lines that the writers at platinum had written.

She brought a voicing style that they decided upon and sought out. What she brought was a contracted skill that, unfortunately for her and most voice actors, is not unique nor irreplacable. Don't be so blind and/or disprespectful to the people who actually did the creative work, made the character and worked hard to keep the series going by attributing their work to someone who did nothing more than speak the lines that were given to her.

In the eyes of the fans yes, she did. She is as synonymous with the character as David Hayter is with Solid Snake.

And don't give me that shit when they go OUT THEIR WAY to make sure their Japanese voice actors return for certain established roles. They disrespected her plain and simple, hence why the Fans, the ones that BUY the game, are pissed to hear this. Of course the haters and shit kickers act like there's no big deal

 

[ADiTAR]

It’s an exclusive on their platform …

They are the executive producer, they just bring the money. They have no control over how they use the budget and who to hire for VO.

 

[Godot25]

I don't get why it is such a big deal.
Devs offered her a job with X amount of money
She refused and wanted more
Devs thought that her demands are too high so they went out and found a replacement
And she is now angry?

Like...If I go to the job interview, they told me that i will get 1500$ per month and i said that i want 1800$ and they did not hire me because of that can is my anger justified?

 

[NeoIkaruGAF]

I don't get why it is such a big deal.

It’s the perfect gaming-Twitter shitstorm fodder. It checks so many boxes.

It was also a while since the last time there was a concrete chance to throw shit at Nintendo and put up excuses to not buy one of their games most of the people outraged at this weren’t going to buy anyway.
Now any sub-80 Metascore and any disappointing sales report for Bayonetta 3 will have people go “See? That’s what you get for being cheap bastards!”, everyone will feel vindicated, all will be good with the world. And all this for an IP that was never a big seller in the first place.

It’s all so predictable at this point.

 

[Slothbeing1209]

I don't get why it is such a big deal.
Devs offered her a job with X amount of money
She refused and wanted more
Devs thought that her demands are too high so they went out and found a replacement
And she is now angry?

Like...If I go to the job interview, they told me that i will get 1500$ per month and i said that i want 1800$ and they did not hire me because of that can is my anger justified?

The thing is it's probably too low compare other jobs in Voice Actor. I think she's still in shock when they just switch to another person after she didn't agree with that price since she's main character voice for first 2 games.

I do think her action is not professional and may harm her career but it's good for other Voice Actor because someone finally stood up and talk about how low the Voice Actor get paid. Especially at this time when AI program fuck up all artist job.

And btw in a successful franchise you should expected to get paid more. Not lower than some indie game.
I work as freelance illustration. And the price of commission from random customer always lower than the price of commission from game company.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Platinum Games and Nintendo should quite frankly be ashamed of themselves

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

You answered yourself already. If you consider Bayonetta AAA, what would God of War be, AAAAA?

Maybe.

I don’t think there has ever been true agreed upon metrics for what constitutes AAA. Depending on how far back you go Bayonetta 3 would easily be considered AAA.

 

[Sakura]

In the eyes of the fans yes, she did. She is as synonymous with the character as David Hayter is with Solid Snake.

And don't give me that shit when they go OUT THEIR WAY to make sure their Japanese voice actors return for certain established roles. They disrespected her plain and simple, hence why the Fans, the ones that BUY the game, are pissed to hear this. Of course the haters and shit kickers act like there's no big deal

Japanese voice actors do not get paid very much. I'm sure if they demanded pay higher than the company was willing to pay, then they would be replaced too.

Also I don't understand why you keep lumping her in with Hayter. They didn't want Hayter. They did not ask him to do the role.
She was literally offered the job, and when she complained to Kamiya, they still kept the offer and even increased the money. She is the one that said no to the job, not the company, so why wouldn't they replace her?

 

[Chukhopops]

It’s the perfect gaming-Twitter shitstorm fodder. It checks so many boxes.

It was also a while since the last time there was a concrete chance to throw shit at Nintendo and put up excuses to not buy one of their games most of the people outraged at this weren’t going to buy anyway.
Now any sub-80 Metascore and any disappointing sales report for Bayonetta 3 will have people go “See? That’s what you get for being cheap bastards!”, everyone will feel vindicated, all will be good with the world. And all this for an IP that was never a big seller in the first place.

It’s all so predictable at this point.

Still buying Bayo 3 personally, been craving a good action game for years and there’s nothing else on the horizon. Sad about the VA since I really liked her in 1 & 2.

The game will still easily outsell previous episodes, drama or not drama. So I think it’ll all be fine in the end.

 

[ADiTAR]

It’s the perfect gaming-Twitter shitstorm fodder. It checks so many boxes.

It was also a while since the last time there was a concrete chance to throw shit at Nintendo and put up excuses to not buy one of their games most of the people outraged at this weren’t going to buy anyway.
Now any sub-80 Metascore and any disappointing sales report for Bayonetta 3 will have people go “See? That’s what you get for being cheap bastards!”, everyone will feel vindicated, all will be good with the world. And all this for an IP that was never a big seller in the first place.

It’s all so predictable at this point.

I do feel like it will affect the review scores from virtue signaling publications.

 

[tomato shrub]

This game looks cheap as hell, the first trailer felt like an alpha version of the Bayo 2 intro. No surprises they were cheapskating here too. Platinum really should've tried to get better partners than Nintendo, just somehow. Well, they did with MS and then they fucked up. Also how did they get talked into live service games by SE instead of going straight to Nier 3? Seems like mismanagement all around. I hope they get their comeback one day. Regardless of any boycott, a M-rated game on Switch won't be that.

 

[Rykan]

It’s the perfect gaming-Twitter shitstorm fodder. It checks so many boxes.

It was also a while since the last time there was a concrete chance to throw shit at Nintendo and put up excuses to not buy one of their games most of the people outraged at this weren’t going to buy anyway.
Now any sub-80 Metascore and any disappointing sales report for Bayonetta 3 will have people go “See? That’s what you get for being cheap bastards!”, everyone will feel vindicated, all will be good with the world. And all this for an IP that was never a big seller in the first place.

It’s all so predictable at this point.

That's pretty much exactly what this is. People see a "victim" and that means that there must also be a culprit.

Helena Taylor said that the recording for the first Bayonetta game took 16 hours and took place over 4 sessions of 4 hours each.
The union rate for about 4 hours is around 975$. So that puts it at close 4000$.

She was probably initially offered less because she might have less voice lines in B3 due there being a new character.
Anyone who looked up her past acting careers can easily tell that she does not land many voice acting roles. The price she was offered is completely standard. She probably thinks she's entitled to more because she thinks that Bayonetta made 450 million USD, without merchandising.

That number simply doesn't add up with the amount of sales.

 

[Roman Empire]

Pay me a few Pizzas and I can do the job. Not that the quality will be great if Bayonetta is portrayed by a late 20s dude trying to make a British accent.

Hire me, Nintendo. Or not. Your play now.

 

[YOU PC BRO?!]

When we talk about Nintendo funded games we won’t ever know their budget. Nintendo keeps a tight lip and even tighter NDA. Out of Nintendos main IP Zelda/Mario/MKart/Smash are the true AAA only because those are the games they push marketing for! Recently Animal crossing and Splatoon are now their new AAA.

Those games sell over between 10-30 million copies and some over 30 million. I will not guess their development cost since Nintendo has never divulge the cost!

Bayonetta 1 has only sold around 2 million on 2 consoles but a lot of those copies were heavily discounted because it sold bad at launch. Bayonetta 2 sold 300k on WiiU and just over 1m on Switch.

Sega said no to Bayonetta 2 was shopped around to everyone including Sony and MS before Nintendo said yes.

Knowing the sales are niche, Nintendo would likely not throw big money and certainly we have not seen big marketing for Bayonetta 2 and now Bayonetta 3 deoesnt seem to have a big marketing.

AAA games are normally big development budget, big marketing and big sales! Bayonetta doesn’t hit either of those notes!

Unlike earlier, thanks for presenting a reasoned opinion.

The reality is that there has never been a true metric for AAA. One could argue that the games you described go beyond what historically constituted AAA. I personally always tied the idea of AAA to the size of the studio and time spent in development. Those factors typically indicated reasonable investment beyond the size and scale of smaller more niche offerings.

Using sales as a basis for budget makes sense. As you stated we don’t really know what the budget is in this case. Even if we did know the budget how would we be able to state one way or another?

There are many games that historically would have been considered AAA, that would no longer be considered so according to your metrics. My point is that modern budgets have distorted things.

The question is, does the idea of AAA change with the times? Does the idea of AAA stay the same and we create a new scale I.e. AAAA and AAAAA? Microsoft has said as much in the past. Honestly, it’s all become a bit of a joke.

 

[LegendOfKage]

Yes we do. Nobody made a big deal about the changing of voice actors until they found the "controversial" reasoning behind it. Changing of voice actors is both common and its rarely met with controversy. I'd also hardly consider two games an established voice actor.

I would say nobody made a big deal about it because they believed the lie that the developer implied, which was that there was a scheduling conflict and she was already working on another project when they would have needed her.

And I have a feeling we're both thinking of the word "established" in different ways. You're thinking "famous with a lot of pull in the industry." I'm thinking "has already played the character, and is the voice fans associate with the character." In that sense, she was very much established as the voice of Bayonetta.

Similarly, a lot of us in this thread are also not on the same page with the idea of "she should be payed what she's worth." Many see that worth as whatever her peers in the industry are making. I'm closer to seeing that as the monetary value the developer should put on not having to tell fans that they're not getting the voice that they already know and associate with the character. And then there are those who just feel voice actors aren't being payed enough for their contributions in general. Value can have a lot of different meanings.

 

[Kurt]

This game looks cheap as hell, the first trailer felt like an alpha version of the Bayo 2 intro. No surprises they were cheapskating here too. Platinum really should've tried to get better partners than Nintendo, just somehow. Well, they did with MS and then they fucked up. Also how did they get talked into live service games by SE instead of going straight to Nier 3? Seems like mismanagement all around. I hope they get their comeback one day. Regardless of any boycott, a M-rated game on Switch won't be that.

Didnt you see the preview of the game? It could even been the goty of 2022. Its that good. Keep in mind that i still need to play those games, its not coming from myself.

 

[gradient]

In the eyes of the fans yes, she did. She is as synonymous with the character as David Hayter is with Solid Snake.

And don't give me that shit when they go OUT THEIR WAY to make sure their Japanese voice actors return for certain established roles. They disrespected her plain and simple, hence why the Fans, the ones that BUY the game, are pissed to hear this. Of course the haters and shit kickers act like there's no big deal

No, she didn't. Voice actors are entirely replaceable. Even the Simpsons made this point in an earlier episode that they put out decades ago. You're literally attributing other people's work to her based on nothing more than celebrity worship.

And the general public have no damned clue who she is nor will they notice that it's a different VA in the third. They don't see her face, she brings nothing more than a voice that is easily replaced and all other facets of the character are totally unaffected by the change because she adds nothing to the creative concept. Replace an actor in a movie and your audience will immediately see the change as it will impact the entire character, their mannerisms and appearance. A VA brings none of that - they are a faceless voice that 99% of the time can easily be mimiced by another VA while the mannerisms and appearance of the character are nothing to do with them and can maintain continuity.

 

[nemiroff]

I wonder if she will realize that that video isn't doing her a lot of favors... I mean, I agree 4000 doesn't sound right, but I'm not into so much interested in a specific sum, celebrity pay is arbitrary. I'm more interested in decent hourly wages. So, my question is, a fair question since she engaged this, how many hours of voice work did they project to her, and how much per hour does it translate to.

 

[HoodWinked]

I wonder if she will realize that that video isn't doing her a lot of favors... I mean, I agree 4000 doesn't sound right, but I'm not into so much interested in a specific sum, celebrity pay is arbitrary. I'm more interested in decent hourly wages. So, my question is, a fair question since she engaged this, how many hours of voice work did they project to her, and how much per hour does it translate to.

i think i saw or read that it was 4 days for previous games

 

[LegendOfKage]

3 million views, a little over a year since it was uploaded, making it the most viewed Bayonetta 3 trailer on You Tube:





7.3 million views, less than a day since it was uploaded:

 

[UnNamed]

Given that I don't like her voice, and I find the new one is similar, high value job costs, and company can't devalue it because of their budget, considering Bayonetta is making million of dollars.

It's very dangerous when company can say "I'll pay you less because there is a queue behind you for less money, and you should thank me I give you a job because in the future AIs are even cheaper".

 

[GhostOfTsu]

Is Jennifer Hale going to say something about this?

 

[FunkMiller]

Platinum Games and Nintendo should quite frankly be ashamed of themselves

Eh.

The problem here is we have no context. Was she offered this low amount because they’re penny pinching cunts, or because they didn’t actually want her back, but were acting too Japanese to just bin her and go with someone else?

What’s her usual going rate on a game like this? She doesn’t say, so no context there.

Unless we get context, we can’t actually make any informed option.

A lot of you are arguing past each other. The issue isn’t social media per se, but the fact that so much stuff gets amplified on it without the necessary context.

 

[Sorcerer]

Sounds like some undisclosed politics. Obviously, Jennifer Hale is going to make much more the $4000. Nintendo and Platinum for some reason wanted the original voice actress out and knew she would refuse the lowball offer, and if for some reason she did take the offer than they saved themselves a pile of cash. A win in either case for Nintendo and Platinum. Platnium seems to be a sinking ship anyway, I wonder if this game will reflect that and if Nintendo is bracing themselves for the game to undersell once again.

 

[nemiroff]

i think i saw or read that it was 4 days for previous games

I was thinking that fair pay for a specialist short-contract role like an actor should be around 100-200 USD per hour. So, the actual hourly wage is pretty close that then. But I'm just a guy in a comfy chair making estimated guesswork notions, so what do I know.

 

[Rykan]

Sounds like some undisclosed politics. Obviously, Jennifer Hale is going to make much more the $4000. Nintendo and Platinum for some reason wanted the original voice actress out and knew she would refuse the lowball offer, and if for some reason she did take the offer than they saved themselves a pile of cash. A win in either case for Nintendo and Platinum. Platnium seems to be a sinking ship anyway, I wonder if this game will reflect that and if Nintendo is bracing themselves for the game to undersell once again.

She's a contractor, not an employee. If you want a different voice actor for your game, you simply contract a different voice actor. There's no need to even contact the old voice actor.

 

[Stare-Bear]

I work in advertising and for a 30 second tv spot we usually pay around £750-£1000 for the VO artist. It’s not just for their time, it’s also for the right to publish said voice and use it for different platforms. You pay a license for tv, social/internet, radio etc.

So yes, $4000 is a big insult.

 

[VN1X]

One thing we can all take away from this is that Hellena Taylor has a terrible fashion choice.

 

[Shut0wen]

Cant help but think platinum did a gearbox on nintendo and used some of bayo3s funds for there GAAS game and had fuck all left to pay for actors but at the same time the current bayo3 actor isnt cheap either, either way insulting of platinum to offer such a low amount and of they wanted to recast her they shouldnt of offered her anything

 

[Goalus]

If the game is good, I'll buy it.

 

[Griffon]

1k per day of recording sounds pretty alright to me.
There's no way the game would have more than 20h of voice lines from her.

She's making it sound like she's out there making the game by herself. When in fact it's barely a week of her life.

And preying on the ignorance of the masses to drum up controversy, very classy move... Good luck finding a VA job after that.

 

[Hardensoul]

3 million views, a little over a year since it was uploaded, making it the most viewed Bayonetta 3 trailer on You Tube:





7.3 million views, less than a day since it was uploaded:

That's the most marketing for a Bayonetta game ever! Her speaking out and not being in it brought more attention to a relatively niche game, she's helping it more than hurting it! IMO

Thanks Helena Taylor.

 

[Fully engaged]

I would say nobody made a big deal about it because they believed the lie that the developer implied, which was that there was a scheduling conflict and she was already working on another project when they would have needed her.

And I have a feeling we're both thinking of the word "established" in different ways. You're thinking "famous with a lot of pull in the industry." I'm thinking "has already played the character, and is the voice fans associate with the character." In that sense, she was very much established as the voice of Bayonetta.

Similarly, a lot of us in this thread are also not on the same page with the idea of "she should be payed what she's worth." Many see that worth as whatever her peers in the industry are making. I'm closer to seeing that as the monetary value the developer should put on not having to tell fans that they're not getting the voice that they already know and associate with the character. And then there are those who just feel voice actors aren't being payed enough for their contributions in general. Value can have a lot of different meanings.

This is just good manners on the behalf of the employer.. They could of just said, "We offered Hellena the part at our standard rate for voice actors and she refused." They could have dumped it all on her back in 2018

 

[Kamina]

Their initial offer was LESS than $4k (flat rate)...

As an established actor your worth does not boil down to a freaking time sheet. In an MCU movie, RDJ can be paid more for just doing 2 scenes than an actor who's in the ENTIRE film.

I know nothing of her profile or importance for/in the industry.
All i know is that she complains and that none of us know anything about what actually went down.

 

[Fully engaged]

What if they only wanted her for a few lines and planned to kill her from the outset and they were overpaying her for those lines? She got pissed and that was that?

 

[Clear]

Seems like a case of somebody who thinks they are way more important and instrumental to the process than they actually are.

The objective take is that from a Japanese person's POV she's just localization talent. So her "value" isn't bolstered by fame or recognizability, things that would allow her, or more likely her agent, to negotiate more favourable rates.

I mean, do you think foreign actors who voice for big-time Hollywood stars in their native tongues get paid as much as the star did if they don't have any fame of their own to bring to the table? Of course not, they'll get offered union rates because their name doesn't appear on the marketing.

Seems to me her ego was bruised by this reality.

 

[Hardensoul]

What if they only wanted her for a few lines and planned to kill her from the outset and they were overpaying her for those lines? She got pissed and that was that?

It doesn't sound too far off of the plot. There's suppose to be multiple different Bayonetta in the game. Possibly different voices for them?

 

[SweetShark]

Plot twist:
Bayonetta will die very early in the game. That why she have only few lines.

 

[saintjules]

Exactly, Jennifer Hale is the female equivalent of Nolan North or Troy Baker. Ain't no way they offered her 4K for this.

Nintendo paying someone like this more money for sure.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

The replacement VA Jennifer Hale liked the following twitter post less than 4 hours ago

 

[Sorcerer]

She's a contractor, not an employee. If you want a different voice actor for your game, you simply contract a different voice actor. There's no need to even contact the old voice actor.

Interesting, do you think Jennifer Hale did it for $4000? Is there enough prestige in the role to forgo a decent payday?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Hale also liked the following tweets

 

[qwertz12345]

Cancelled my order... Game looks cheap anyway.

 

[ProgenitorCastle]

I changed my stance, re pre ordered the Trinity Masquerade edition. Will enjoy the game if it's a good game regardless of the VA situation which in a perfect world would be Helena Taylor as Bayonetta

 

[OmegaSupreme]

I will not comply and will purchase the game.

 

[Team Andromeda]

Eh.

The problem here is we have no context. Was she offered this low amount because they’re penny pinching cunts, or because they didn’t actually want her back, but were acting too Japanese to just bin her and go with someone else?

What’s her usual going rate on a game like this? She doesn’t say, so no context there.

Unless we get context, we can’t actually make any informed option.

A lot of you are arguing past each other. The issue isn’t social media per se, but the fact that so much stuff gets amplified on it without the necessary context.

Given its skint 'Please Buy US' Platnium Games and penny pitching Nintendo. I think its the cunts option.

 

[CYRU5_DA_GR34T]

Doesn't bayonetta have a Japanese voice actress? Cause I'm assuming that's where this game sells the most so that'll also come into play when seeing the profit margins of the game series.

Not that I'm saying 4,000$ is even remotely okay for the work I'm just saying.

EDIT: apparently 2 bombed in Japan, huh.

Exclusive to a console nobody bought, aimed at a family friendly audience rather than a hardcore one, no surprise that it would flop on home soil

 

[daclynk]

3 million views, a little over a year since it was uploaded, making it the most viewed Bayonetta 3 trailer on You Tube:





7.3 million views, less than a day since it was uploaded:

well people like twitter drama. Good for cancel Culture.

 

[GigaBowser]

That's the most marketing for a Bayonetta game ever! Her speaking out and not being in it brought more attention to a relatively niche game, she's helping it more than hurting it! IMO

Thanks Helena Taylor.

Yes.

I wasn't even thinking about Bayonetta 3 but now that this has turned into a day 1 buy from me because I started viewing more trailers after hearing this news, so if the plan was to help Bayonetta, it worked.

It will probably be the best selling Bayonetta in the franchise.

 

[Jeff Spicoli]

In Europe its more than 2 months of the average salary.