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[Rykan]

Yet people notice straight away about the voice change shrugs.

Yeah, most people will notice it and then shrug and move on because it's not an important aspect of the game.

Why do you care if the game sales will be affected by this or not?

Because this is a commercial product. If a performance doesn't move sales, then it's not worth investing a lot of money into that aspect of your game.

Instead of looking at bigger picture where people who work on the hobby you enjoy getting severe underpaid by the corporate greedy. This isnt just Nintendo or platinum. That's clearly industry wide problem. Just because you are easily replaced doesn't mean shoud be unfairly paid.

But that's pretty much the essence of this discussion, isn't it? I don't think getting paid 1000$ for 4 hours of work is bad payment. Also, how easily you are replaced does have an influence on how much your performance is worth. That's how capitalism works.

 

[Batiman]

Doesn't sound like they lowballed her at all here...

Sounds like she has some serious mental illness and needs some help rather than keyboard warriors fighting her financial battle for her.

I hope she gets the help she needs before something more drastic happens. People shouldn't egg her on.

Mental issues? Really?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

You might not need to, but you probably have a reason to explain your position when your role is recast and fans want to know why, and probably have some professional feelings about the company that tried to do you dirty to let others know.

This isn't rocket science. Pay people what they're owed. And did move on by telling people she rejected their bullshit offer and gave her opinion on what people should do about it. Oh no! She has an opinion about being done dirty and sent it out!

I mean one she even states that she signed an NDA and is going to disregard it because she doesn't have anything (note her net worth online is listed at ~900k-1 million, not necessarily accurate, but my guess is she isn't as poor as she lets on)

One thing to break the NDA and another to ask for the game to be boycotted because you didn't get your way...

she has mental illness and she's having an episode.

 

[clarky]

You might not need to, but you probably have a reason to explain your position when your role is recast and fans want to know why, and probably have some professional feelings about the company that tried to do you dirty to let others know.

This isn't rocket science. Pay people what they're owed. And did move on by telling people she rejected their bullshit offer and gave her opinion on what people should do about it. Oh no! She has an opinion about being done dirty and sent it out!

Again, she was paid what she was owed as per the contracts she signed.

Yeah, most people will notice it and then shrug and move on because it's not an important aspect of the game.

Because this is a commercial product. If a performance doesn't move sales, then it's not worth investing a lot of money into that aspect of your game.

But that's pretty much the essence of this discussion, isn't it? I don't think getting paid 1000$ for 4 hours of work is bad payment. Also, how easily you are replaced does have an influence on how much your performance is worth. That's how capitalism works.

Hello someone arrives speaking sense.

 

[daveonezero]

You can ask that question for a lot of professions.

Yep and the thing that sees people apart is hard work and effort.

Most people don't want to put in the work.

 

[SLB1904]

The comparison to Athletes doesn't work at all. Athletes are paid by sponsors, and thus they get paid by how much brand awareness they create. .

Athletes get paid according to how well they do. That's why a very low percentage that are actually very good at it get paid very well. Some as actors and any other artist really. We can go go back and forth. But denying that Bayonetta isn't iconic and unique anddoenst stand out is not inst true.
4k is too low for the brand awareness

He'll Bayonetta teaser people were wanking each other while losing their minds. Shit is trending like crazy. And you are telling me 4k that's the best they can do?

 

[Hardensoul]

You might not need to, but you probably have a reason to explain your position when your role is recast and fans want to know why, and probably have some professional feelings about the company that tried to do you dirty to let others know.

This isn't rocket science. Pay people what they're owed. And did move on by telling people she rejected their bullshit offer and gave her opinion on what people should do about it. Oh no! She has an opinion about being done dirty and sent it out!

She said that Platinum or Nintendo didn't break the law. She turned down the pay. But the issue is she called for a boycott and basically called out Jennifer Hale the new VA.

Did you not see all 3 videos she posted?

 

[Topher]

Athletes get paid according to how well they do. That's why a very low percentage that are actually very good at it get paid very well. Some as actors and any other artist really. We can go go back and forth. But denying that Bayonetta isn't iconic and unique anddoenst stand out is not inst true.
4k is too low for the brand awareness

He'll Bayonetta teaser people were wanking each other while losing their minds. Shit is trending like crazy. And you are telling me 4k that's the best they can do?

4K is definitely not the best they can do. I'd bet Jennifer Hal got a lot more than that. So the question is why did they low-ball Taylor. Like I said in the other thread, I don't think this has anything to do with money. If they didn't want Taylor then they should have just fired her.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Why am I saying that I think she has mental illness:

• She cites contemplating suicide
• She is posting a number of videos via twitter (not just 1)
• She is breaking an NDA potentially placing her in legal jeopardy
• She hasn't worked in 8 years and this isn't going to help her get work or money
• Her ask that the game be boycotted is delusional and grandiose
• Her quoting of the bible and applying it to her situation of being paid 4K dollars for a few working sessions is certainly worrisome

She seems disassociated from reality. That may be the default for many of you, but for us that live in the real world on a daily basis, that is a sign of mental illness.

 

[Hardensoul]

4K is definitely not the best they can do. I'd bet Jennifer Hal got a lot more than that. So the question is why did they low-ball Taylor. Like I said in the other thread, I don't think this has anything to do with money. If they didn't want Taylor then they should have just fired her.

Well they sorta did fire her! They basically had auditions for the role! She confirmed the audition.

 

[SLB1904]

. Also, how easily you are replaced does have an influence on how much your performance is worth. That's how capitalism works.

That's literally the definition of exploitation lmfao
You see how fine this tread is.
How fo you think we got where we with minimum wage? Do you think one day "capitalism" woke up and was like. Yeah let's stop paying these easy replaceable Macdonalds burger make a dollar a day and give them a decent wage so they might survive.
Because that's how it was before the minimum wage bro. For capitalism we are worth shit

 

[LavitzSlambert]

Regardless of the reasons, would it really have been so bad to pay more for the voice work? If it was me, just eat some extra cost to ensure VA continuity in the highly anticipated 3rd game of your franchise. If 100 more people bought the game it would have paid for itself.

 

[Deleted member 1159]

She said that Platinum or Nintendo break the law. posted?

I haven't seen 3 videos, the video I saw she specifically said they did not do anything illegal, she said what they did was immoral (which are two separate things for anyone who needs clarification) and by all reasonable accounts by people who seem to have knowledge about these rates, she's right.

Maybe the facts are in dispute about what happened but if she was actually offered a mere fraction of what someone of her experience and caliber would be owed, she has every right to call it out. And anyone complaining about that is an idiot

 

[Topher]

Well they sorta did fire her! They basically had auditions for the role! She confirmed the audition.

But they offered her money for the job as well. We are not getting the whole story here. Of that much I'm convinced.

 

[Rykan]

Athletes get paid according to how well they do. That's why a very low percentage that are actually very good at it get paid very well.

It's not that simple. Yes, how well they perform has an influence on how they're paid, but that is because better performance means more popularity, which makes you a better brand ambassador. But your performance alone isn't what dictate this. That's why there was so much discussion about the US Soccer/Football team not making as much money as the men's do, despite literally being the best woman football team in the world. It's because nobody cares about women's soccer and thus there is no incentive for brands to spend a lot of money on sponsorship.

That's kind of what is happening here as well: It doesn't really matter how good you are at voice acting, Bayonetta is still a "trashy" action game and your performance has no influence on sales. You can call it pearls for swines but that doesn't change anything.

Some as actors and any other artist really. We can go go back and forth. But denying that Bayonetta isn't iconic and unique anddoenst stand out is not inst true.
4k is too low for the brand awareness

What does being "Iconic" mean though? Bayonetta 1 sold 2 million copies across like 5 or 6 different platforms. Bayonetta 2 sold like 1.2m copies. This isn't some major selling franchise.

He'll Bayonetta teaser people were wanking each other while losing their minds. Shit is trending like crazy. And you are telling me 4k that's the best they can do?

Oh the people who like Bayonetta games really like them. And that makes sense: These games are really, really good. Is 4K the best they can do? No, probably not but that is how much they are willing to spend on it. It also depends on who's paying the bill: Platinum isn't a successful, rich developer with a lot of funds and Nintendo is the publisher, but I can't think of a publisher that cares less about voice acting than Nintendo.

 

[64gigabyteram]

Yes. It takes little to no talent. It is something nearly anyone can do.

so why the fuck isn't everyone doing it? clearly if it takes little to no talent all the teenage kids who need a summer job would be voice acting at the biggest studios wouldn't they? if it takes no talent surely Mel Blanc wouldn't be so famous for voicing so many characters?

hell, why don't the programmers just voice act? why do studios actively go out and search for VA's when it requires 0 talent? surely the programmers and directors voices are PERFECT for outlandish, fantasy characters who require specialized and punchy voices?

 

[clarky]

That's literally the definition of exploitation lmfao
You see how fine this tread is.
How fo you think we got where we with minimum wage? Do you think one day "capitalism" woke up and was like. Yeah let's stop paying these easy replaceable Macdonalds burger make a dollar a day and give them a decent wage so they might survive.
Because that's how it was before the minimum wage bro. For capitalism we are worth shit

What would you recommend she should have been paid for this game then? hit me with a figure you think is reasonable.

 

[clarky]

so why the fuck isn't everyone doing it? clearly if it takes little to no talent all the teenage kids who need a summer job would be voice acting at the biggest studios wouldn't they? if it takes no talent surely Mel Blanc wouldn't be so famous for voicing so many characters?

hell, why don't the programmers just voice act? why do studios actively go out and search for VA's when it requires 0 talent? surely the programmers and directors voices are PERFECT for outlandish, fantasy characters who require specialized and punchy voices?

Lots of games VO's are done by dev's. It's not rocket science. 99% of videogame dialogue is trash no wonder you get paid fuck all for reading it out loud.

 

[Hardensoul]

I haven't seen 3 videos, the video I saw she specifically said they did not do anything illegal, she said what they did was immoral (which are two separate things for anyone who needs clarification) and by all reasonable accounts by people who seem to have knowledge about these rates, she's right.

Maybe the facts are in dispute about what happened but if she was actually offered a mere fraction of what someone of her experience and caliber would be owed, she has every right to call it out. And anyone complaining about that is an idiot

Sorry typo, said they didn't break the law. It's in the other thread she posted 3 Twitter videos.

 

[Rykan]

That's literally the definition of exploitation lmfao
You see how fine this tread is.
How fo you think we got where we with minimum wage? Do you think one day "capitalism" woke up and was like. Yeah let's stop paying these easy replaceable Macdonalds burger make a dollar a day and give them a decent wage so they might survive.
Because that's how it was before the minimum wage bro. For capitalism we are worth shit

Okay, but that brings us to a very large, much broader discussion about capitalism as a whole, which by definition is about exploitation of labor.

I don't really think a discussion about minimum wage really fits when the topic at hand is whether 1000$ for 4 hours of work is appropriate.

 

[SLB1904]

What would you recommend she should have been paid for this game then? hit me with a figure you think is reasonable.

Like I said before I don't know. Because I don't know how much these guys get paid. I mean some people with normal office jobs get a car for free that costs from 30k to 100k.
In my opinion 100k should be absolutely fair. Maybe more than that, who cares. Again I'm not saying every voice actor should get this amount but the iconic ones definitely.

Okay, but that brings us to a very large, much broader discussion about capitalism as a whole, which by definition is about exploitation of labor.

I don't really think a discussion about minimum wage really fits when the topic at hand is whether 1000$ for 4 hours of work is appropriate.

Exactly my point. At this point we just arguing what we think is fair. In my opinion I don't think people should get paid bad just because they are easy replaceable. That's my all point. For the better of for the worst she has being involved on the journey of the franchise.
This isnt the case of games like haze or other forgotten stuff.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Like I said before I don't know. Because I don't know how much these guys get paid. I mean some people with normal office jobs get a car for free that costs from 30k to 100k.
In my opinion 100k should be absolutely fair. Maybe more than that, who cares. Again I'm not saying every voice actor should get this amount but the iconic ones definitely.

100K for a few hours of work?

And what about the devs putting in months/years of work?

 

[Deleted member 1159]

Sorry typo, said they didn't break the law. It's in the other thread she posted 3 Twitter videos.

Well I'm not sure why people are mad at her for.

Is it a he said/she said thing and people are just sick of that? Ok then get that out there.

But
-if their final offer was 4k I bet she has receipts
-if other VAs are saying that's an insulting nonsense offer for someone of her experience and abilities, it probably is
-whatever other issues she may have, they're irrelevant unless they factored into the offer (which could actually illegal considering her experience and abilities)

So why is anyone mad at her for telling her side of the story?

 

[Deleted member 1159]

100K for a few hours of work?

And what about the devs putting in months/years of work?

If they could do the 100k job for a few hours then they would.

I don't understand the selective market dictates the price principles some have. I get paid a lot more than a ditch digger for the same amount of time. Duh, my knowledge and experience provide more value than someone with a stronger back.

If this chick's time wasn't worth it for the company, fine. Don't tell her she gets the toilet scrubber rate and don't get mad if she lets people know it

 

[Mibu no ookami]

People with excpetional talent are not paid solely by the amount of time that they work. That is a rather reductive way to view the work of an actor. They are paid not just for the amount of work but also by the strength of their name and the quality of their work. Her voice is in regards to Bayonetta is rather iconic and goes hand in hand with the character, so her name's attachment to the project is significant. Additionally, the quality of her work has been top notch.

Why so many acting like she's just some dime-a-dozen employee punching out at the end of the day?

She was a dime a dozen to the company making the game hence why they didn't offer her more money and went with someone else.

Ultimately no one cares about bayonetta let alone this VA.

 

[SLB1904]

100K for a few hours of work?

And what about the devs putting in months/years of work?

$100k for the talent. Also few hours. Who told you is few hours?
How about the trip to the studios for to record. Time is money. Thus isn't your 8 to 5 everyday work. These people are freelancers. Every hour counts.

 

[SLB1904]

Ultimately no one cares about bayonetta

Yeah sure

 

[Deleted member 1159]

$100k for the talent. Also few hours. Who told you is few hours?
How about the trip to the studios for to record. Time is money. Thus isn't your 8 to 5 everyday work. These people are freelancers. Every hour counts.

This. I work a full week but probably only bill 20 hours or so.

"Oh so what you just play golf the rest of the time?"

No idiot, studying all the regulations and international standards I need to know isn't billable time, but it directly affects rates I can demand and get rightfully paid for. And if you don't know that, I bet I make more than you.

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Yeah sure

People who make a living pretending to be interested in things online is your evidence that this game that barely sells 1-2 million copies is a franchise of note?

 

[Hardensoul]

Well I'm not sure why people are mad at her for.

Is it a he said/she said thing and people are just sick of that? Ok then get that out there.

But
-if their final offer was 4k I bet she has receipts
-if other VAs are saying that's an insulting nonsense offer for someone of her experience and abilities, it probably is
-whatever other issues she may have, they're irrelevant unless they factored into the offer (which could actually illegal considering her experience and abilities)

So why is anyone mad at her for telling her side of the story?

Supposedly Jennifer Hale is in a union and been advocate for higher wages. So she certainly has to be paid at least the industry minimum? But Jennifer Hale is the more well know actress top in the game VO industry. She would definitely be wanting more than average right?

Most people not all are mad at her for calling for boycott and taking shots at Jennifer Hale.

Also seems entitled that she is Bayonetta because she is the VA . Basically sound like no else should voice Bayonetta!

 

[rabbity-thing]

Ultimately no one cares about bayonetta let alone this VA.

Dude, you've posted 9 times in this thread. Two of those posts were to reply to one of my comments. Yeah, you replied to one of my comments on two separate occasions. If you're going to make a statement like "no one cares about bayonetta" you probably shouldn't seem so invested in the drama.

 

[ADiTAR]

$100k for the talent. Also few hours. Who told you is few hours?
How about the trip to the studios for to record. Time is money. Thus isn't your 8 to 5 everyday work. These people are freelancers. Every hour counts.

What's the difference tho? people who work 9-5 don't commute at least an hour a day to and from work and never get paid for it?

100K for talent shows you prob have no idea what people are getting paid in the real world, that's more than the average yearly salary.

 

[Hardensoul]

$100k for the talent. Also few hours. Who told you is few hours?
How about the trip to the studios for to record. Time is money. Thus isn't your 8 to 5 everyday work. These people are freelancers. Every hour counts.

She basically said as much in her videos 1-2 sessions each for Bayonetta 1/2. Which was 2-4 days?

 

[Mibu no ookami]

Dude, you've posted 9 times in this thread. Two of those posts were to reply to one of my comments. Yeah, you replied to one of my comments on two separate occasions. If you're going to make a statement like "no one cares about bayonetta" you probably shouldn't seem so invested in the drama.

My response is to someone destroying what is left of their career while seemingly having a manic epiosde. I have never in my life played or seen anyone play Bayonetta, nor do I care about the specific underlying subject matter. I think that's fairly immaterial.

 

[DenchDeckard]

100K for a few hours of work?

And what about the devs putting in months/years of work?

While I respect your earlier posts as I wasn't up on what has happened. This actor does sound like she may have issues.

You can't compare two completely different things.

One group of devs working years does not compare to a voice actor, or an actor for that matter. It's just not the same thing. Maybe you have opinions on various industry's pay but it's the way of the world. Devs will be working extremely hard and I see what you are Saying but bayo is a well known character amongst us nerds and its not her first outing. Its the third game and she deserves decent pay imo.

 

[Fully engaged]

Well.. never playing Bayonetta 1 and 2 in English again.. not listening to this mad bitch anymore...

 

[SLB1904]

People who make a living pretending to be interested in things online is your evidence that this game that barely sells 1-2 million copies is a franchise of note?

If they wasted their time pretending tp be interested in bayo there must be something to it. Also Bayonetta sales is trending upwards. Also selling 2 mil copies and spend 4k on the main character there is pretty profit coming out of it

 

[Hardensoul]

Ok! Not to be sounding like a mod but this other thread is discussing her videos!

https://www.neogaf.com/threads/hell...sd-to-voice-her-again-in-bayonetta-3.1643241/

 

[Fully engaged]

My response is to someone destroying what is left of their career while seemingly having a manic epiosde. I have never in my life played or seen anyone play Bayonetta, nor do I care about the specific underlying subject matter. I think that's fairly immaterial.

I agree... She was offered the job, and looking at her resume it was an act of kindness on the part of Nintendo and Platinum..

For people saying.. but "Bayonetta is iconic"... "She should get paid.." She was offered the job.. She turned it down based on the contract. Nintendo and Platinum had to make a decision if the actor was replaceable, and they decided she was. They got an actor who would do the role in the budget they had. Platinum and Nintendo probably won because the new actor seems to have done an excellent job.
It isnt like superhero movies dont have new actors take over established roles. I dont see what the fuss is apart from Hellena breaking down.

 

[SLB1904]

What's the difference tho? people who work 9-5 don't commute at least an hour a day to and from work and never get paid for it?

Because we no special talent and the paycheck is guaranteed. You don't have to go home and try to get another hassle

100K for talent shows you prob have no idea what people are getting paid in the real world, that's more than the average yearly salary.

Talent is pretty unique, not everyone has. Or you get Jill sandwich type of delivery.
Or things like this

 

[Rykan]

Like I said before I don't know. Because I don't know how much these guys get paid. I mean some people with normal office jobs get a car for free that costs from 30k to 100k.
In my opinion 100k should be absolutely fair. Maybe more than that, who cares. Again I'm not saying every voice actor should get this amount but the iconic ones definitely.


Exactly my point. At this point we just arguing what we think is fair. In my opinion I don't think people should get paid bad just because they are easy replaceable. That's my all point. For the better of for the worst she has being involved on the journey of the franchise.
This isnt the case of games like haze or other forgotten stuff.

100k!?!?! That is beyond ridiculous, mate. The voice acting has zero bearings on the success of this game. Spending 100k on ONE voice actor would be a terrible allocation of financial resources.

You seem to think that Bayonetta is an RPG franchise with tons of voices dialogue that sells millions of copies, instead of the niche Action game with minimal dialogue that can be be recorded in just a few days that it really is.

 

[Max_Po]

so did someone accept 4000 or less to do the role ?

 

[SLB1904]

The voice acting has zero bearings on the success of this game.

I disagree. She's has a personality for sure. How many characters have a strong personality like bayo? Very few. She us pretty iconic. Like i said before people noticed straight away.

Also I don't think 100k is that crazy. Even so let's say 20k. Under 10k is just too low in my opinion

 

[Hardensoul]

so did someone accept 4000 or less to do the role ?

It's not that simple, we don't know how many hrs or days of work that equate to. Other thread someone posted for veteran VA minimum is $250 an hour. Which is 16 hrs for $4000. That seems pretty good for 2 normal 8hr work days!

 

[Rykan]

I disagree. She's has a personality for sure. How many characters have a strong personality like bayo? Very few. She us pretty iconic. Like i said before people noticed straight away.

Also I don't think 100k is that crazy. Even so let's say 20k. Under 10k is just too low in my opinion

How many sales of Bayonetta games are decided strictly and entirely by her voice performance?

 

[AutumnLeaves]

100k!?!?! That is beyond ridiculous, mate. The voice acting has zero bearings on the success of this game. Spending 100k on ONE voice actor would be a terrible allocation of financial resources.

You seem to think that Bayonetta is an RPG franchise with tons of voices dialogue that sells millions of copies, instead of the niche Action game with minimal dialogue that can be be recorded in just a few days that it really is.

The voice actor who played Niko in GTA4 got paid 100 K for his work.

 

[Rykan]

The voice actor who played Niko in GTA4 got paid 100 K for his work.

Niko has more voice lines in GTA 4 than the entire Bayonetta franchises combined. GTA tends to sell a little better than Bayonetta does, too.

 

[64gigabyteram]

How many sales of Bayonetta games are decided strictly and entirely by her voice performance?

how the hell is anyone supposed to find the sales of a game based on its voice performance? for all we know every single game sold because of that, or none of the games sold because of that. you cannot really gauge that

 

[Rykan]

how the hell is anyone supposed to find the sales of a game based on its voice performance? for all we know every single game sold because of that, or none of the games sold because of that. you cannot really gauge that

Buddy it's a friggin Action combat game made by Platinum Games. The answer is zero. that's how many. Nobody purchases a Platinum game for the story or its voice work. It's ridiculous to argue that the voice work of the main character made a significant contribution to the sales (which are already quite low) of this game, and thus she deserves 100k for her performance. It's absurd.

 

[Danjin44]

Buddy it's a friggin Action combat game made by Platinum Games. The answer is zero. that's how many. Nobody purchases a Platinum game for the story or its voice work. It's ridiculous to argue that the voice work of the main character made a significant contribution to the sales (which are already quite low) of this game, and thus she deserves 100k for her performance. It's absurd.

Also I'm not denying her performance, she did fantastic but what made Bayonetta "iconic" was her design more than her voice.