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Hero sure isn't very good
- Thread starter olimario
- Start date
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MrAngryFace
Banned
HE GOT A GED! HE GENIUS! SHUDDUP!
Boogie9IGN
Member
Hero/House of Flying Daggers > CTHD
I also hate people who don't finish the fucking movie first. And just what did Hero rip off from CTHD? Wire fighting?
I also hate people who don't finish the fucking movie first. And just what did Hero rip off from CTHD? Wire fighting?
radios shipping overview
Member
Pretty, yes, but bloody bloated and full of itself, with no tension in the fight scenes. I felt every one of those 96 minutes.
CTHD is way way WAY overrated by some of you guys.
The fight choreography in Hero far surpasses that of CTHD (except maybe for that fight in the hall between Zhang Ziyi and Michelle-whoever, the name eludes me at this point of time).
The way different colours are used in the different depictions of the events is a truly artistic touch.
My favourite fight scene? The red-themed yellow leaves fight between Maggie Cheung and Zhang Ziyi. Damn, did that scene rock or what?
The fight choreography in Hero far surpasses that of CTHD (except maybe for that fight in the hall between Zhang Ziyi and Michelle-whoever, the name eludes me at this point of time).
The way different colours are used in the different depictions of the events is a truly artistic touch.
My favourite fight scene? The red-themed yellow leaves fight between Maggie Cheung and Zhang Ziyi. Damn, did that scene rock or what?
JeffDowns said:
Me too.
bionic77 said:
:lol :lol :lol dayumm
DMczaf said:
:lol :lol :lol
Boogie9IGN said:
oh man, I agree with you 100%
I basically loathed CTHD, but Hero was my favorite movie of all of 2004. Just beautiful.
Granted, the story loses some of its appeal after the first viewing...but man, after the first time i saw it I was completely blown away by the story, and not so much the cinematography.
But after buying the DVD and already knowing the plot, the scenery this time just blew me away. The scene with Moon fighting in the autumn leaves is so so good.
I still love it.
I always disliked CTHD, and this movie put it to shame. All the scenery, not just the fighting scenes, was magical. And the ending scenes...made me get all tingly.
Call me naive, but the first time i saw the movie, the plot blew me away, let alone the martial arts.
Great, great movie.
and yes, ElyrionX, that scene superbly kicked all ass.
Mr. Spinnington
Banned
Jim Bowie said:
Was it any good? I stopped watching after
Flying Snow killed Broken Sword
However Jim, we must view House of the Flying Daggers on day one.
Sometimes I really wonder if you're for real, olimario. You watched 10 MINUTES of the damn movie. And I would say it is probably the worst 10 minutes of the movie too.
Not that it's a really great movie or anything. It's alright. Some of the fights are really awesome. And it's really, really pretty to look at. There's not too much else there, though. If you're not going to watch for that, then don't watch.
But don't make a judgment thread based on 10 minutes of the damn movie. That makes you look like Leguna.
And nobody wants to be Leguna.
Not that it's a really great movie or anything. It's alright. Some of the fights are really awesome. And it's really, really pretty to look at. There's not too much else there, though. If you're not going to watch for that, then don't watch.
But don't make a judgment thread based on 10 minutes of the damn movie. That makes you look like Leguna.
And nobody wants to be Leguna.
CROUCHING TIGER HIDDEN DRAGON CROUCHING TIGER HIDDEN DRAGON CROUCHING TIGER HIDDEN DRAGON CROUCHING TIGER HIDDEN DRAGON CROUCHING TIGER HIDDEN DRAGON CROUCHING TIGER HIDDEN DRAGON CROUCHING TIGER HIDDEN DRAGON CROUCHING TIGER HIDDEN DRAGON CROUCHING TIGER HIDDEN DRAGON CROUCHING TIGER HIDDEN DRAGON CROUCHING TIGER HIDDEN DRAGON CROUCHING TIGER HIDDEN DRAGON
Why the fuck is every single Chinese drama compared to Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon? It's not made by the same director, the same cinematographer, the same art director, AND ONLY ONE OF THE SAME FUCKING ACTORS. SHUT. THE. FUCK. UP. ABOUT. CTHD. Different movies entirely, stop with the banal comparisons.
I would seriously like you or one of the movie's detractors to define the cheese in this movie. It's a serious movie. It's a serious, dramatic movie, and seriousness is inherent to its style. One should realize that this is just as dramatic as your Requiem for a Dream or Philadelphia. Only Hero is in Chinese and has fighting.
If you're talking about seriousness in the plot, you obviously weren't looking hard enough. The story itself is based on an ancient Chinese legend. Three rebels desire to assassinate a warlord who is trying to take China by force. Like every Chinese warlord, ever, fictionalized or no. If you're arguing that history is corny, cheeseball, and not worth your time, then the problem isn't with the movie; it's definitely with the viewer.
Furthermore, one could call the ritualistic drinking scene with the warlord cheesy. Perhaps, if one was not fully taking in the situation, or possibly watching one fight scene, this could be feasible. However, if any reasonable film watcher looked at it, they would think it made perfect sense. Think about this rationally- it's been established that there have been assassination attempts on the man's life; therefore, he will be very, very cautious to anyone. Anyone that he doesn't know may be an assassin. He is offered a drink, which is very common to any royal/formal proceeding. After showing feasible proof that he slew Sky, he is allowed to come forward because it appears that he's trustworthy.
The announcers, the one's that tell Nameless what he may/may not do, are also perfectly normal. In ancient Chinese societies, rulers were very often given the God treatment. What I mean is, they were treated as Gods, and minor instructions and general speaking was much too pure for common ears. When the God wanted to know something, he would ask directly, and the listener would answer as respectfully as possible. That's why the announcers exist.
The plot itself is simply brilliant. The movie, which one thinks will be about Nameless regaling his conquests to the warlord, is a movie about deception and nationalism. Nameless weaves such a tale (all to symbolistic colouring, mind you) that one would be hard pressed to find it false. What's truly amazing about Nameless Deception is the immense amount of detail that he places in his lie. And not only does he have one lie, but two entire lies at his disposal. He knew that the warlord would figure out the first one in no time, so he made his lie even more elaborate. However, he intentionally leaves in logical fallacies that an intelligent man such as the warlord would figure out. This gives him time to get close enough to the warlord to kill him. That shows the true cunning and versatility of the Nameless.
The color play in Hero is truly artistically amazing. Each color represents an individual emotion, a mood, a character. I spent hours after the movie had ended just analyzing the color's correlations with the film. The entire duration of the movie was like viewing an art gallery. Only everything was in Chinese and there was fighting.
Look man, to see a tiny part of the movie and criticize the entire thing on that one scene is a really terrible habit. What if everybody based their opinion of Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace on the Pod Race scene? It would such a beautiful film, with high action, sandpeople, and virtually flawless. We all know that this is not true. Please, before you make critical assumptions about a movie, make sure you check it out, first.
Why the fuck is every single Chinese drama compared to Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon? It's not made by the same director, the same cinematographer, the same art director, AND ONLY ONE OF THE SAME FUCKING ACTORS. SHUT. THE. FUCK. UP. ABOUT. CTHD. Different movies entirely, stop with the banal comparisons.
olimario said:
I would seriously like you or one of the movie's detractors to define the cheese in this movie. It's a serious movie. It's a serious, dramatic movie, and seriousness is inherent to its style. One should realize that this is just as dramatic as your Requiem for a Dream or Philadelphia. Only Hero is in Chinese and has fighting.
If you're talking about seriousness in the plot, you obviously weren't looking hard enough. The story itself is based on an ancient Chinese legend. Three rebels desire to assassinate a warlord who is trying to take China by force. Like every Chinese warlord, ever, fictionalized or no. If you're arguing that history is corny, cheeseball, and not worth your time, then the problem isn't with the movie; it's definitely with the viewer.
Furthermore, one could call the ritualistic drinking scene with the warlord cheesy. Perhaps, if one was not fully taking in the situation, or possibly watching one fight scene, this could be feasible. However, if any reasonable film watcher looked at it, they would think it made perfect sense. Think about this rationally- it's been established that there have been assassination attempts on the man's life; therefore, he will be very, very cautious to anyone. Anyone that he doesn't know may be an assassin. He is offered a drink, which is very common to any royal/formal proceeding. After showing feasible proof that he slew Sky, he is allowed to come forward because it appears that he's trustworthy.
The announcers, the one's that tell Nameless what he may/may not do, are also perfectly normal. In ancient Chinese societies, rulers were very often given the God treatment. What I mean is, they were treated as Gods, and minor instructions and general speaking was much too pure for common ears. When the God wanted to know something, he would ask directly, and the listener would answer as respectfully as possible. That's why the announcers exist.
The plot itself is simply brilliant. The movie, which one thinks will be about Nameless regaling his conquests to the warlord, is a movie about deception and nationalism. Nameless weaves such a tale (all to symbolistic colouring, mind you) that one would be hard pressed to find it false. What's truly amazing about Nameless Deception is the immense amount of detail that he places in his lie. And not only does he have one lie, but two entire lies at his disposal. He knew that the warlord would figure out the first one in no time, so he made his lie even more elaborate. However, he intentionally leaves in logical fallacies that an intelligent man such as the warlord would figure out. This gives him time to get close enough to the warlord to kill him. That shows the true cunning and versatility of the Nameless.
The color play in Hero is truly artistically amazing. Each color represents an individual emotion, a mood, a character. I spent hours after the movie had ended just analyzing the color's correlations with the film. The entire duration of the movie was like viewing an art gallery. Only everything was in Chinese and there was fighting.
olimario said:
Look man, to see a tiny part of the movie and criticize the entire thing on that one scene is a really terrible habit. What if everybody based their opinion of Star Wars Episode 1: The Phantom Menace on the Pod Race scene? It would such a beautiful film, with high action, sandpeople, and virtually flawless. We all know that this is not true. Please, before you make critical assumptions about a movie, make sure you check it out, first.
Iron Monkey was better than everything for my money. Kickass wirefu with great choreography used to hilarious comedic effect >>> the same used to overblown dramatic effect. Which isn't to say I didn't enjoy the other movies, they're all good in their own right.
Anyhow, watch the rest of Hero. The art direction alone is worth it, especially in the assault on the city (with the rain of arrows) and the fighting sequence with all the wind & leaves. The Rashomon-style plot is entertaining for awhile too until it runs out of gas in the last half-hour or so.
Anyhow, watch the rest of Hero. The art direction alone is worth it, especially in the assault on the city (with the rain of arrows) and the fighting sequence with all the wind & leaves. The Rashomon-style plot is entertaining for awhile too until it runs out of gas in the last half-hour or so.
olimario for wrong.
HERO is a movie that is entirely about the imagery. The story is not remarkable at all; but the cinematography is just so captivating, so fucking beautiful. The action elements are good, and while not as graceful as that in Crouching Tiger, it certainly has a level of intensity that exceeds that film in many ways.
That said, the film House of Flying Daggers rapes both Crouching Tiger and HERO, so I reccomend watching that.
HERO is a movie that is entirely about the imagery. The story is not remarkable at all; but the cinematography is just so captivating, so fucking beautiful. The action elements are good, and while not as graceful as that in Crouching Tiger, it certainly has a level of intensity that exceeds that film in many ways.
That said, the film House of Flying Daggers rapes both Crouching Tiger and HERO, so I reccomend watching that.
Maxwell House
Member
I absolutely loved Iron Monkey. Now THAT was an entertaining movie with a fun plot and great fight sequences. It wasn't CHEESY.
I am sorry but Hero was total, 100% cheese. The emotions were blah, the dialogue was absolutely horrible, the yelling and screaming during fights was laughable, the wire fu was way too over the top, etc. It was a complete and utter mess IMO. I really don't understand how anyone could think the plot, storyline, dialogue, etc were good in this movie.
I am sorry but Hero was total, 100% cheese. The emotions were blah, the dialogue was absolutely horrible, the yelling and screaming during fights was laughable, the wire fu was way too over the top, etc. It was a complete and utter mess IMO. I really don't understand how anyone could think the plot, storyline, dialogue, etc were good in this movie.
Apart from the sexorific visuals, wasn't the point the gradual adding of depth to the characters? At first they're made out to be very 2D and are gradually revealed to be much deeper.
But whatever, I'm not egotistical enough to stop watching a movie half way through, be a man and sit through the whole damn thing or shut up.
But whatever, I'm not egotistical enough to stop watching a movie half way through, be a man and sit through the whole damn thing or shut up.
Koshiro said:
That's what made him judging the movie after one scene even more comical. Hardly anyone would argue that this is an excellent movie (although I personally like it a lot) but he still managed to come off as an aloof asshole here.
I rented it other other day, watched in in Chinese with subtitles last night, in English today.
I will way I was begining to feel disapointed in the movie after about 1/2 hour, but after watching the whole movie its a totally different feeling. I really liked it, that is all I will say.
I will way I was begining to feel disapointed in the movie after about 1/2 hour, but after watching the whole movie its a totally different feeling. I really liked it, that is all I will say.
The real problem with Hero is its execution of the plot. A viewer will not engage with the characters until late in the film, and so really what has kept your interest in the first half were gimmicks of nice cinematography and colors. That's OK, unless you weren't that impressed by the Rashomon-style story, the Ran-style color theming, and the fighting sequences which lacked the energy of the best-wire fu or the choreography of CTHD.
Everyone feels that Hero has some slow parts in the beginning and yet the movie is only 96 minutes. That's the problem.
House of Flying Daggers is much better in that regard. Like Crouching Tiger, you engage with the characters early on. HOFD biases itself to more of a love story, but still has excellent action sequences with more judicious use of wires and CG. Some people have felt that the love story and characters were not as well developed as that in CTHD, but I think they're missing the point. It's a story of young passion. CTHD is the better film from an academic analysis because it effectively handles multiple storylines, but HOFD can be better to watch because it only focuses on one story...
Comparing Hero and CTHD is more than justified. CTHD is a benchmark for Chinese wuxia films in that it received 4 Academy Awards, and Hero is also a very good example of the modern wuxia genre. Both movies share a common producer, composer, and popular young actress. Hero premiered at China's parliament because the film was largely funded by the Chinese government as part of a response to the Taiwanese produced CTHD.
Everyone feels that Hero has some slow parts in the beginning and yet the movie is only 96 minutes. That's the problem.
House of Flying Daggers is much better in that regard. Like Crouching Tiger, you engage with the characters early on. HOFD biases itself to more of a love story, but still has excellent action sequences with more judicious use of wires and CG. Some people have felt that the love story and characters were not as well developed as that in CTHD, but I think they're missing the point. It's a story of young passion. CTHD is the better film from an academic analysis because it effectively handles multiple storylines, but HOFD can be better to watch because it only focuses on one story...
Comparing Hero and CTHD is more than justified. CTHD is a benchmark for Chinese wuxia films in that it received 4 Academy Awards, and Hero is also a very good example of the modern wuxia genre. Both movies share a common producer, composer, and popular young actress. Hero premiered at China's parliament because the film was largely funded by the Chinese government as part of a response to the Taiwanese produced CTHD.
Hero was awesome, even if it was digitally color-treated all to hell and back. Not only were the visuals beautiful, but the storytelling was ace--a simple fable, extremely well-told.
I agree that CTHD is extremely overrated in this thread. Ang Lee's The Ice Storm craps all over that movie with its superior cinematography, as well as Lee's ability to create complex characters.
I agree that CTHD is extremely overrated in this thread. Ang Lee's The Ice Storm craps all over that movie with its superior cinematography, as well as Lee's ability to create complex characters.
That has been brought up. The film was funded by the Chinese government in part, and it premiered at the Great Hall (the parliament building). There are those who say that the Ch'in emperor represents China and that the three assasins represent Taiwan, Tibet, and Hong Kong.
It's hard to say because it works both ways. The movie seems to push the stance that the sacrificing yourself for the good of a unified nation is a good thing. Only then you think about the emperor's archers and the massacre at the calligraphy school or why the Ch'in emperor refused to spare Nameless's life.
So you can see it as being to be pro-dictator if you feel that the emperor was portrayed as doing a good thing, but you can also see it a criticism if you think that Zhang Yimou was in fact warning his viewers that even a ruthless dictator can be made to look noble.
It's hard to say because it works both ways. The movie seems to push the stance that the sacrificing yourself for the good of a unified nation is a good thing. Only then you think about the emperor's archers and the massacre at the calligraphy school or why the Ch'in emperor refused to spare Nameless's life.
So you can see it as being to be pro-dictator if you feel that the emperor was portrayed as doing a good thing, but you can also see it a criticism if you think that Zhang Yimou was in fact warning his viewers that even a ruthless dictator can be made to look noble.
Die Squirrel Die
Member
Eh what d'ya I liked them both. They are different, despite their superficial similarities with different concerns. CTHD is more grounded, more real, more based on its characters. With Hero it's like there is more of an academic exercise going on, an exploration of structure and creating a dreamlike atmosphere.
Thing about the first fight in Hero, was that it felt a bit tacked on. Sort of like they just stuck it in there 'cause Donnie Yen kicks arse.
And as much as I find the comparisons to CTHD to be a bit superficial they are understandable. CTHD was the first film of its type to break out into the mainstream. But I know the Asian cinema elitists will hammer on this point 'cause if everyone's now into Asian films how are they to make themselves feel special.
Thing about the first fight in Hero, was that it felt a bit tacked on. Sort of like they just stuck it in there 'cause Donnie Yen kicks arse.
And as much as I find the comparisons to CTHD to be a bit superficial they are understandable. CTHD was the first film of its type to break out into the mainstream. But I know the Asian cinema elitists will hammer on this point 'cause if everyone's now into Asian films how are they to make themselves feel special.
Maxwell House said:
Let me ask you, did you watch the movie in English or Chinese dialouge? Were you basing this opinion on the English subtitles or an English dub? Was there even an English dub made for the film?
Maxwell House said:
Oh, and what are people supposed to do during a desperate fight for their lives? Sing along to Britney Spears?
Maxwell House said:
Sure, it was indeed over the top but it was ultimately ENTERTAINING to watch.
Certain things that some of you people would label as "cheesey" are, in fact, the way things REALLY were back in those days of ancient China.
I swear, some of you people are totally mocking things which you have not a single bit of understanding of.
BTW, I thought Jim Bowie nailed it good with his impressions and showed a remarkable amount of cultural openness and understanding.
I will indeed watch the rest, but a horrible plot is one that doesn't let you identify with the characters until late in the film.
The cinematography is nothing special from what I've seen. The first fight was full of cheesy shots that did nothing to establish or add to the scene. The slow motion adds to how hoaky everything is.
I don't see how anyone could prefer this to the entertaining and engaging CTHD.
The cinematography is nothing special from what I've seen. The first fight was full of cheesy shots that did nothing to establish or add to the scene. The slow motion adds to how hoaky everything is.
I don't see how anyone could prefer this to the entertaining and engaging CTHD.
I'd rather he didn't, it's one thing to criticize a movie with valid complaints, but to try to make people feel stupid for liking it is pretty lame to say the least.
But the whole forum awaits the GED educated opinion of a martial arts movie formed in reference to the one other martial arts movie previously seen.
But the whole forum awaits the GED educated opinion of a martial arts movie formed in reference to the one other martial arts movie previously seen.
God's Hand
Banned
I agree with my friend Gary.
Maxwell House
Member
So now I am culturally narrow minded because I thought Hero was a cheesy, cliched piece of tripe?
I happen to be asian myself and I love much of asian Cinema, especially Akira Kurosawa and Wong Kar-Wai movies. I recently watched the Korean movie Oldboy, which SHITS all over this film in every way. I really like some Jet Li movies too, so this isn't some prejudice against him. Legend of the Fist is one of my all time favorite martial arts films.
Hero was just a bad movie. The relationships especially were very poorly directed and told. The screaming and yelling during the fights weren't ordinary battle type cries..they were artsy ridiculous operatic crap. Watch the fight scenes again. You're telling me you never wanted to laugh because of the absurdity of all the overdramatized screaming and crying during those scenes?
Also, what do you mean the cheesy parts were the way they really were back in old China? What does that mean? You mean that guys back then really fought while running over water, or that people could block thousands of fired arrows by spinning their arms around their bodies? Did emperor's invite known assassins into their palaces to shoot the shit the entire afternoon? During battles back then, did the combatants wail and cry and scream their lungs out the entire time? What exactly was realistic about the cheese factor present throughout the whole film? I don't get it.
BTW, I watched the movie at my friend's house, on DVD, with subtitles and the original Cantonese dialogue.
I happen to be asian myself and I love much of asian Cinema, especially Akira Kurosawa and Wong Kar-Wai movies. I recently watched the Korean movie Oldboy, which SHITS all over this film in every way. I really like some Jet Li movies too, so this isn't some prejudice against him. Legend of the Fist is one of my all time favorite martial arts films.
Hero was just a bad movie. The relationships especially were very poorly directed and told. The screaming and yelling during the fights weren't ordinary battle type cries..they were artsy ridiculous operatic crap. Watch the fight scenes again. You're telling me you never wanted to laugh because of the absurdity of all the overdramatized screaming and crying during those scenes?
Also, what do you mean the cheesy parts were the way they really were back in old China? What does that mean? You mean that guys back then really fought while running over water, or that people could block thousands of fired arrows by spinning their arms around their bodies? Did emperor's invite known assassins into their palaces to shoot the shit the entire afternoon? During battles back then, did the combatants wail and cry and scream their lungs out the entire time? What exactly was realistic about the cheese factor present throughout the whole film? I don't get it.
BTW, I watched the movie at my friend's house, on DVD, with subtitles and the original Cantonese dialogue.
Kabuki Waq
Member
Maxwell House said:
EXACTLY
no matter what ppl would like you to believe. Hero does not have a good plot or script. THe action is not even good. The only thing Hero HAs is great Cinematoraphy. Even house of flydaggers is better cause it atleast has some action.
There are lots of better "serious" Asian movies out there.
^^^ One of the dumbest and most narrow-minded comments about cinema I've ever read.olimario said:
Hero wasn't all that good but there are proper ways to critique something, and then are Olimario's inarticulate, assumptive and small-minded arguments that are only made more ridiculous by the fact that he watched about 16% of the film.
Other people have made some decent points about the movie, but damn Oli, you're just an idiot.
Duck of Death
Member
Dan said:
DID YOU EVAH KNOW THAT YOU'RE MY HEEERROOOOOO!?!?!??
Anyway, I thought Hero was quite good. I appreciated the narrative structure, it reminded me of an ancient poem. The swordfights were more like dances than fights, and I admired the lyrical beauty of the film.
The Take Out Bandit
Member
'Scuse me while I butt in.
I didn't find the story of Hero slow or boring, but I did find the gratuitous use of slow motion footage to be overwhelming. If the movie is only 96 minutes long, I swear to god 80 minutes of it is slow motion.
It was a good movie, but I would have preferred a less art-fag leaning director. The color themes, slow motion, and ham fisted visual cues are not my cup of tea.
Then again, I'm just fucking sick and tired of HK movies trying to be The Next CTHD. I didn't need that crap ten years ago when I was watching Fong Sai Yuk and I don't need it now. Just gimme Chinamen beating each other up with lots of blue lights.
Totally unrelated, but The Shogun's Samurai was released here in the States finally. WOOOO! Sonny Chiba and Toshiro Mifune?! OMG! I MUST BUY THIS DVD, OR DIE!
Kuro Madoushi
Unconfirmed Member
Boogie9IGN said:
House of Flying Daggers > CTHD?
CTHD was a much better experience overall, and it at least establishes it's plotline a lot better than HoFD...
Ahem
Andy Lau was part of the house of flying daggers? Where tdid that come from?! Zhang Ziyi dies...not quite...then dies...for a bit...but not quite yet...then finally...
Kuro Madoushi said:
I think both CTHD and HoFD are excellent movies, if they were 10/10, Hero would be 5/10. While CTHD has stronger characters, I thought HoFD was a better experience overall because of the greater character time. The characters themselves are immature, but the characterization of that immaturity is superb. I actually keep bouncing back and forth over whether CTHD or HoFD is better -- maybe I'm leaning toward HoFD since it's new.
HoFD spoilers:
Yeah, I know no one expects Leo (Andy Lau) to be in the House of Flying Daggers, but it's a good for driving the movie's underlying characterization of the idealism of youth and the blindness of love.
Everyone in the movie is a pawn. Leo, Mei, and Jin's devotion to their "cause" only causes suffering. By the end you really don't care about the Tang Dynasty or the HoFD as much as you care about the characters, Mei and Jin (though I'm sure we all would have liked to have seen the big battle). Think about the idealism of youth in a modern political context with the recent election and the foolishness of the spinsters from both sides. Toward the end of the movie, the Romeo/Juliet-esque
The second main theme is the blindness of love. On the one hand, Mei and Jin's relationship seems only like lust given that it's only been 3 days -- but the point is that love is overwhelming. If you had to think about whether you loved someone or not, it's not real love. Though both parties are feigning interest in the beginning, it leads to more. Likewise, Leo's rapid turn from an interesting character to a seemingly two-dimensional villian is used to drive the theme of love further. It's not that the ending has come to a Hollywood ending, but that the same love that allowed Leo 3 years of patience could in 3 days, destroy him emotionally. In the end, it is Leo who suffers the most because he hasn't grown.
Everyone in the movie is a pawn. Leo, Mei, and Jin's devotion to their "cause" only causes suffering. By the end you really don't care about the Tang Dynasty or the HoFD as much as you care about the characters, Mei and Jin (though I'm sure we all would have liked to have seen the big battle). Think about the idealism of youth in a modern political context with the recent election and the foolishness of the spinsters from both sides. Toward the end of the movie, the Romeo/Juliet-esque
The second main theme is the blindness of love. On the one hand, Mei and Jin's relationship seems only like lust given that it's only been 3 days -- but the point is that love is overwhelming. If you had to think about whether you loved someone or not, it's not real love. Though both parties are feigning interest in the beginning, it leads to more. Likewise, Leo's rapid turn from an interesting character to a seemingly two-dimensional villian is used to drive the theme of love further. It's not that the ending has come to a Hollywood ending, but that the same love that allowed Leo 3 years of patience could in 3 days, destroy him emotionally. In the end, it is Leo who suffers the most because he hasn't grown.
={<SMOKE>}=
Member
why couldn't oli graduate from high school?
Maxwell House said:
First of all, my main point was that you CANNOT make a comment that the dialogue was "horrible" unless you watched it in what it was originally dubbed in and completely understood the original language. And as Tsubaki has pointed out, the original dialogue was in mandarin, not cantonese (do you even understand cantonese?). To make a comment on the dialouge without watching and understanding the movie in its original dub would just be a facile attempt at making an ignorant remark. BTW, I watched the movie in mandarin and completely understood it as well. It did not sound ridiculous or "horrible" to me in any way. In fact, I thought the dialouge was fantastic and incredibly well-written and exemplified the beauty of the mandarin language. I watched the movie with the English subtitles as well and that was what I thought was ridiculous.
So which "screaming and yelling during the fights" were you referring to? I certainly don't remember any "artsy ridiculous operatic crap" instances of it.
Maxwell House said:
That's not what I meant which is why I said "certain things". That particular comment was not exactly targeted at you but more at some other people in this thread. The whole ten steps to the emperor concept, the ideological divide between Tony Leung and Maggie Cheung's characters, etc.
Also, the film was NOT meant to be realistic so I don't see how the fight scenes can be cheesey. To say that would be to label The Matrix trilogy as cheesey as well because Neo could do impossible shit (along with every other action movie out there). The whole "cheesey" thing only sprang up because some of you guys think that this flick is supposed to be some realistic intepretation of historial facts. It's not, plain and simple. It's the eastern equivalent of certain western concepts, such as the concept of superheroes in society.
In fact, IIRC, Hero was meant to be a tribute to all those other martial-arts and sword-fighting flicks of the old days. You can see a lot of references here and there. The over-the-top nature of the sword fights. The relationship between calligraphy and swordplay. Some of the "cheese" were intentionally meant to be so.
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