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Heroes of Newerth |OT| Free-To-Play [PC /Mac /Linux]

spermatic cord said:
Ragequit is the best and worst sound effect in the game. On one hand when you're stomping and you hear that clip it brings a smile to your face. On the other hand, after a 5 man genocide one person on your team quits. RRRRAAGEEEQUIT. Then the ragequit train happens and eventually it's just you. Sometimes it gets depressing :lol

It really should be within the first few seconds after death. Raging when you're 30 seconds into your respawn doesn't have the same effect. Plus some people reconnect.

Also, Armadon needs that bug fixed. I was laning with one as Swift and he got more kills than I did. Granted it was a 20-minute stomp but going 2/0/7 does nothing for my KDR. :lol
 

kagete

Member
What Arma nerf? I don't even know what the bug is! Honestly there should be a bloodchalice nerf instead. It's way more OP than when the magic sticks/batteries were first included into HON.
 
kagete said:
What Arma nerf? I don't even know what the bug is! Honestly there should be a bloodchalice nerf instead. It's way more OP than when the magic sticks/batteries were first included into HON.
Armadon stacks are bugged thus they do way more damage then they are supposed to. They're increasing the cd on blood chalice.
 

kagete

Member
Ahh guess it's the end of an era... I gained 100 PSR this week just abusing the blood chalice on every hero I played.

Zeph - Gust spam for sidelane domination
Dev - hook spam plus striders+rot broken ass chasing
Lego - great midgame item as the chalice means i always have mana for portal jumps and calls
Elec - OP
DS - OP
Jera - OP (must have played 15 games with chalice on him)
Glac - spam with striders
Nymph - OP spam lanes
pyro/witch/voodoo - OP
gauntlet - OP goodness
Arma - 3x OP goodness
bubbles - spam
Tempest - OP farming way faster than clarities or int items or mana regen masks
Warbeast - OP farming plus damage buff spam
Repulsor - OP
DarkLady - OP as it gives you great farming and that extra bit of mana for chasing down and cleanign up
kraken/keeper - pretty much a no brainer, but not OP, allows skill spam
CD - allows skill spam, but not so OP
SS, Fayde - spam, great mid item early
Flint - same as above, but really OP as flares and snipe are mana intensive


and i could go on... its just too good an item for 90% of the heroes, is cheap, and doesnt require a recipe. What hero won't need a chalice? Chronos?
 

Nome

Member
Sorry to rant, but people are just stuck in the DotA mindset, unfortunately. Yes, Blood Chalice is extremely strong. Yes, it's used on almost every hero. But is it broken?

As a designer, I don't find it broken. I find it to be severely overpowered, direly in need of a nerf, but within the context of DotA and HoN, it is not at all overpowered. It's definitely overused, though--which is what we're going to be addressing with the upcoming nerf (25>35s cd). Eventually, we may nerf it further.

I think a good example of an item that is outright broken and overused, but has seen very little change, is Magic Stick/Wand in DotA. The item has become ubiquitous to such an extent that in 9/10 competitive DotA games, every single hero will have a Magic Wand by the end of the game. The very core of the item is downright broken; why, in a competitive game, is one of the most cheapest and efficient item one that discourages aggression and reactionary play? In DotA, no one questions the design decisions behind this item. The Magic Bottle is another item with no downsides that should have sparked debate, but does not. At S2, we have debates around this item, and similar items, like Blood Chalice, regularly. We knew that, just like how Magic Wand metagame'd out heroes like Zeus and Bristleback in DotA, Blood Chalice would metagame in those same heroes.

But why is it that Blood Chalice is imbalanced, when those other items are not? Was it wrong for us to design an item that would reach the iconic level of Magic Wand and Bottle? That was actually our original intention--to do exactly just that. I feel that it would be healthy for the game if, eventually, Magic Wand, Bottle, and Blood Chalice all reached a level where they are great, powerful conditional buys, not ubiquitous buys. Either way, now that we've introduced the item in the current state, we have to be careful to make incremental nerfs, lest we upset the competitive community.

I respect Riot Games and the LoL crew immensely for being able to see past the basic gameplay faults in DotA and build a new game out of the best parts of the genre and push it forward, to be honest. I think all of S2 Games internally has a great deal of respect for them, and I hope they feel the same about us (shoutout to Pendragon_). But all of the "problems" that the Blood Chalice has introduced: needing to go to the fountain less, less reliance on consumables, evening the playing field for melee/ranged heroes (due to the fact that melee heroes tend to not have very high mana pools)... are actually positive in a game-design sense, even if they upset the current stable metagame.

So to me, Blood Chalice is a huge success. And I personally hope we'll be able to put out items that affect the game that much in the near future.
 
I've actually never used Chalice myself, but I can think of a few heroes I play where lack of mana in a gank/push can send me back to the fountain despite having full health. Chalice definitely would be preferred to getting the courier to bring me a mana pot.
 

Archie

Second-rate Anihawk
In my opinion, BC is a good item, but is useful on nearly everybody which is where the cries of overpowered comes from.
 

kagete

Member
Great post Nome. Blood Chalices has definitely made a ton of melee heroes that were previously easily harrassed out of lasthits/exp early game way more fun to play. Personally, I think its just having striders and bloodchalice come out so near each other that makes people scream nerf. I bet when the Devourer buffs were first planned, the bloodchalice and striders' effects on the metagame weren't fully taken into account.

You guys don't have the mystique and aura of mystery that IceFrog has. He has always been somewhat immune to negative feedback because of his unique position and indirect means of interacting with the community. You guys on the other hand, have built in feedback systems, centralized servers, and a single forum and portal for collecting feedback, plus being a paid-for product. You're just easier to pester with cries for balance and complaints.

However, that's really not the biggest issue that HON has right now. I think with the current gank-heavy and map-control oriented metagame its important that you introduce heroes that can perform actual tanking without being the killing machines that heroes like Armadon and Balph have become... Port Bradwarden Nome... Port him now... HON needs him, you know this to be true.
 

Kapura

Banned
i think chalice has buffed a lot of heroes who had manapool dependency issues. Behemoth can roam much earlier now without disrupting the Mid laners ability to grab runes, Maliken is being seen in games now, healers no longer have mana issues ever at all. But, at the same time, I feel that it completely removes those aspects of the mana dependent heroes. Playing Maliken pre-Chalice and now are completely different. Mali is one hero who it seems like Chalice is core on in the early and midgames. Before,y ou could throw your sword, like, twice and you'd be out of juice for several minutes. Now, you can use it as soon as it is off CD and then lifesteal your way back to full. It makes him viable, which is awesome. But then there are heroes who can do crazy burst damage more than they could previously with almost no ill effects. Specifically, I'm talking about squishy int heroes like Thunderbringer. A well played TB with a chalice can rock the house much more thoroughly than pre-Chalice buff, and if he's doing it right he'll almost always be getting the kill (or the team will)and he'll get all of that health right back. Very low risk when he's ganking out of the jungle iff the laners have any CC at all.

That was really, really longwinded and without a point. I think Chalice is sweet, but it has too much utility. I think the ability to regain the health (even when just spamming it for mana) is the sore spot. I think the next nerf (if it's necessary) is to somehow change how the regaining health works after activation. Maybe you only regain 50 health per hero kill, but you can have multiple health boosts within the window of opportunity. Just something to make it slightly more risky on glass cannon casters.
 

Meeru

Banned
Version 1.0.12
-------------
- Fixed invisible heroes and a potential crash
- Fixed a server crash when moving a flying unit

Version 1.0.11
-------------
== Report Abusive Behavior ==

- Form fixed
- Griefing category added (please be sure to describe the situation carefully before submitting)

== Hero Resource Unloading ==

- Mainly some memory management optimizations. If you frequently crash after playing multiple games in a row, this should help
- Please report any issues or crashes on the forums

== General ==

- Player Controlled minions are now deniable
- Improved chat server stability
- Fixed an issue where players were able to invite other players to their clan even if the targetted player was already in a clan
- Game lobby now displays more stats about players when you hover over the stats button next to their character portrait
- Fixed an exploit where players could set d_drawAreaAffectors to true, and they could see the effect of Madman's stalk in action while he was invisible. This cvar will only work on practice games or replays from now on
- Fixed drag selection of flying units (Tundra Bird or Courier). Trying to select the bird should no longer cause epic levels of rage.
- Spectators (and players in replays) can now view the shop
- Fixed shop error messages not showing up when shopping from the main shop panel
- Fixed spectator gold/min inaccuracies when players sell items
- Little fix for the tiny icons in spectator mode

Note: The fog-pathing change did not make it into this patch due to a major server stability issue involved with it.

== Items ==

Blood Chalice
- Cooldown increased from 25 to 35


== Heroes ==

Armadon
- Fixed a bug with Spine Burst doing too much damage

Chronos
- Agi Steal from Curse of Ages removed

Devourer
- Fixed a bug that made heroes unbind from projectiles well after he Hooked them

Engineer
- Range of Keg lowered from 1000 to 800

Nymphora
- Infoheight changed so the healthbar isn't on her face
- Grace of the Nymph now also increases the target's Movespeed by 25/50/75/100
- Zeal range lowered from 1200 to 900
- Speed of the Zeal projectile lowered from 1100 to 1000

Sand Wraith
- Fixed Desert's Curse to follow correctly

Vindicator
- Glyph of Silence can now silence people in the fog again
* This is a temp bugfix to when someone won't get silenced even if you can see them
* It is possible it will be changed back to vision-limited once the code bug is fixed
---------------------
I just find it really sad that S2 games cant give me templar assassin. My rage is boiling as I will probably switch to Valve dota after it releases
 

kagete

Member
Lanaya? That's pretty unpopular as far as ports go. I honestly think people would rather see Techies get in before Lanaya. I thought the Furion port has been rumored for months? We still don't have any illusion heroes ported (Naga, PL, Meepo) and i'd love to see Bradwarden get in. The crazy aoe heroes (Magnataur, Pit, Seer) aren't in as well but they're probably not too popular anyway. All my personal opinion though :p

Valve DOTA... It almost sounds too good to be true, getting a game invite on Steam from a massive friends list... We'll have to wait and see I guess. Does anyone know how Valve treats cross-region play?
 

Meeru

Banned
Lanaya is awesome in the fact that her traps are also wards. Her meld also dodges stuns. Her refraction confuses ppl.
 
Tried out BC last night after randoming Vindicator. Being able to spam Sage's Lore is so useful. Too bad his ult doesn't give assists.
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzDy1sffQNs
walk in my room
the latest patch on my cpu
matchmake, this place is gunna lose
cuz thats the thing i make noobs do

Prechorus:
cuz its heroes
of f***ing newerth!

Chorus:
i toss teammates into the air sometimes,
cuz im pebbles, gunna pwn noobs
i wanna celebrate a victory
missing middle
careful bottom!

cuz we gon' stomp this pub
we gon' pwn all night
we gunna magmus ult
like its dynamite,
cuz i slowed you once
then we stunned you twice
you got stun-locked til,
until you lost your life

im with my clan
pro stuns and ganks that is our plan
escape with tablet of command
gunna farm a mace just cuz i can

Prechorus

Chorus

Im gunna take it all
I wanna farm a runed axe with my
PANDAMONIUM!
Ill flurry the creeps to oblivion
and I-I-I, I need it
and I-I-I, I just farmed it all
I just farmed it all

Im gunna toss you all in the air
toss you in the air
Ill toss you all in the airrrrrrrr
 

LCGeek

formerly sane
kagete said:
Valve DOTA... It almost sounds too good to be true, getting a game invite on Steam from a massive friends list... We'll have to wait and see I guess. Does anyone know how Valve treats cross-region play?

Valve Dota is real and one of the DOTA designers is on board from what people know.

Valve from what I know with free and pay games has no issue with cross region play. Use your steam browser list you can easily go international to a variety of spots for tons of games.
 

Nome

Member
Well, if we go by precedents, we can also expect 3rd party dedicated servers. Good luck with anti-hack protection too = /
 
Casval said:
Well, if we go by precedents, we can also expect 3rd party dedicated servers. Good luck with anti-hack protection too = /
Valve generally goes with whatever works best for the game; even though tf2 and l4d both use third party servers how they're used is pretty different. I doubt they'll add first party servers to their dota game though.

I'm also expecting a more streamlined version of dota from them... we'll see if they can pull it off without sacrificing depth.
 

Archie

Second-rate Anihawk
I dropped the ball last night in a 70 minute match with kagete and his bro because I played Maliken like a babyman. SORRY GUYS. :(

Also I played like a 1200 scrub and died to neutral creeps auhahahahahaha.

edit: btw Nome, can you give us a *hint hint wink wink* as to when team MM is coming? :p I saw that Maliken was pimping it at the HoN forums by saying there would be things like cash prizes.

edit2: If past history is anything to go by, I think Valve's game will be closer to League of Legends than HoN. I'll still play it, though.
 

kagete

Member
Archie said:
I dropped the ball last night in a 70 minute match with kagete and his bro because I played Maliken like a babyman. SORRY GUYS. :(

Also I played like a 1200 scrub and died to neutral creeps auhahahahahaha.

edit: btw Nome, can you give us a *hint hint wink wink* as to when team MM is coming? :p I saw that Maliken was pimping it at the HoN forums by saying there would be things like cash prizes.

edit2: If past history is anything to go by, I think Valve's game will be closer to League of Legends than HoN. I'll still play it, though.


No biggy, don't get stressed out by any single game man. If it's a particularly bad one then cool off for a bit, watch some SNSD or something. That game was definitely winnable, but our HB kept letting himself get ganked and wasting his double ults outside of clashes. Win some, lose some.

Valve DOTA can't come soon enough. I want some options! I wonder if they're going with the versioned map style that's great for tourneys and betting matches. Should be interesting
 
Nothing like randoming MQ and getting the TB raging at you for KS'ing. Sorry my Moon Beam has more range than your TB skills. Oh yeah, and are you going to put some points into your third skill?
 

Kapura

Banned
augh being without a computer capable of hon is awful. Last time I played, armadon was imba and it was unfun. I want to play fun hon again :(
 

JoeMartin

Member
Farmadon got nerfed and has reverted back to regular old Armadon.

The greater hon community has yet to catch onto this, however, and pubs are still running around mashing W with far less success than anticipated, much to their chagrin.
 

Archie

Second-rate Anihawk
This happens *every* time I try to play matchmaking:

Sfri4.png


Is it a problem on my end or is MM really that awful?
 

Kapura

Banned
anthunit said:
Why do I have to log in to my neogaf account to view this thread? I've never experienced this with other gaf threads.
Because it's in the online forums. Not 4 lurkers.
 

Swag

Member
Played a Pebbles game where I made codex, such a ridiculous combo early game. Killing people in the air, right as they launch :lol
 

Meteorain

Member
Oh man, Accursed is so damn awesome now that they put his Cauterise range back up to 700 :D

Oh yea, what time are all you American GAF on at?
 

Archie

Second-rate Anihawk
Devourer is hard as hell to play. Jesus Christ.


Meteorain said:
Oh man, Accursed is so damn awesome now that they put his Cauterise range back up to 700 :D

Oh yea, what time are all you American GAF on at?

We're usually on at around 8 PM til midnight EST, at least Alumnus, Kagete and Pillowknight.
 

kagete

Member
Meteorain said:
Oh man, Accursed is so damn awesome now that they put his Cauterise range back up to 700 :D

Oh yea, what time are all you American GAF on at?

After work hours, but 6 timezones behind you :( You're only ever really going to get to play with US peeps on the weekends or if they have no work the next day or are college slackers that don't need to wake up by 8AM (like Alumnus).
 

Archie

Second-rate Anihawk
I just messed around with him in a no stats game (where nobody ragequit until the rax were broken omg) and I went like 10/8 with em but wow those hooks take skillz I don't got!
 

Meteorain

Member
I'm a student. Timezones mean nothing to me!

8PM EST? Hmm....that's 1PM here I believe. That gives me at least 2 games :lol

In fact, instead of posting you should play right now >_<
 

Swag

Member
Archie said:
I just messed around with him in a no stats game (where nobody ragequit until the rax were broken omg) and I went like 10/8 with em but wow those hooks take skillz I don't got!

Key to good hooks is to just think where you'd be and then send the hook there, works 8/10 times. Don't try to do any "OMG WTF" hooks either, that shit only works for people that play devourer 20%+
 

Haly

One day I realized that sadness is just another word for not enough coffee.
Nonesense, you should always go for the most balling hooks you can think of.

Hooking through a wave of creeps, blind hooking over a ledge, walking hook to reel them in on the return, hook your teammates out of an incoming arrow.

BAM. Instant gratification.

(But yeah when you start out you want to go for the safe hooks as his mana pool is tiny.)
 

kagete

Member
Meteorain said:
I'm a student. Timezones mean nothing to me!

8PM EST? Hmm....that's 1PM here I believe. That gives me at least 2 games :lol

In fact, instead of posting you should play right now >_<

Meteo, when i get home from work in 2 and a half hours it'll be around 630PM EST here, which is 1230 in the morning in GMT.


Also, Archie just wants to learn Dev since I carried him using Dev in 2-3 games last night :3
 
Dev with chalice/bottle is awesome. One of the best early/mid game heroes.

Defensive hooks are also omgwtf. Teammate caught in Chronosphere? Pull him out (or even pull out the Chronos).

I always hate playing against a Dev. Even worse when he later initiates with his ult and then hooks you back when you try to escape.

I'm out west, so I'm not usually on until 11-12pm EST. I miss being a student sometimes. :(
 

kagete

Member
Lone_Prodigy said:
Dev with chalice/bottle is awesome. One of the best early/mid game heroes.

Defensive hooks are also omgwtf. Teammate caught in Chronosphere? Pull him out (or even pull out the Chronos).

I always hate playing against a Dev. Even worse when he later initiates with his ult and then hooks you back when you try to escape.

I'm out west, so I'm not usually on until 11-12pm EST. I miss being a student sometimes. :(

Dev with the recent buffs plus chalice and striders not being deactivated by his decay skill make him the current big boss. I absolutely hate playing against him so I just hurry and pick him every single game in maybe the last 5 games i've played. He's crazy right now, being powerful right from level 1, and starting to scale great starting at level 3 when you first level his passive skill for potential strength gain. His level 1 hook is already at its max range and his ulti coolsdown in 30s! 30! That's quick enough to use for farming in the jungle inbetween ganks. I used to love pubbing as Pudge back in the day but right now he's a great pick even in arranged games.
 
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