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Heroes of the Storm |OT2| Imitation is the sincerest form of flattery

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A

Alur

Member
Milly does hack.

In every competitive game we've played, he has this kind of force field around himself where even if he is like a sliver from death, the enemy often turns on someone else (me, proto, a random) to kill them instead and he slinks off.

Shit is uncanny man, truly. I envy his mastery of stealth.
 
M

matmanx1

Member
Being still fairly new to HotS I've been trying out different heroes the last few days.

Valla - Flippin' awesome. Easy damage. Does she have any glaring weaknesses?

Raynor - Boring! Also easy damage and has some toughness with the regen but he's got too many passive abilities for me to really enjoy.

Sonya - Talked about her a little bit already but she seems to be a little bit of a warrior/assassin hybrid, doesn't she? Sick burst damage for a warrior but lacks escape and feels a little bit squishy overall.

Xul - Surprisingly fun. Reliable root. Melee AoE. Skeleton minions. Does he have a role in the current meta?

The Butcher - Late game with 125 meat he's a giggle a minute. Absolutely devastating damage. Having only played him vs AI I can imagine that he might have issues staying alive against a competent team that knows to make him a priority. Seems like he might be a force to be reckoned with but might need a babysitter to be fully viable. Still, he's really fun.

On a related note, who are the basic "must have" characters that should be unlocked ASAP? I just want to be sure I have my bases covered as I go forward and make sure I dont have any glaring holes if I want to actually play against human beings once in a while.
 
M

Maledict

Member
matmanx1 said:
Being still fairly new to HotS I've been trying out different heroes the last few days.

Valla - Flippin' awesome. Easy damage. Does she have any glaring weaknesses?
Click to expand...

Not really - she has lower health than a lot of heroes (Valla at 20 has less health than Tychus at 10), but she pretty much does everything. Can be a tank killer, can be a duellist, can be a backline poker. Very hard to find a team she doens't fit in.

Raynor - Boring! Also easy damage and has some toughness with the regen but he's got too many passive abilities for me to really enjoy.
Click to expand...

Yep - deliberately designed to be really simple and easy to play as your first ever hero. Problem at the moment is his Hyperion Ultimate is bugged and wildly overpowered for team fights, which means you have to play him or ban him.

Sonya - Talked about her a little bit already but she seems to be a little bit of a warrior/assassin hybrid, doesn't she? Sick burst damage for a warrior but lacks escape and feels a little bit squishy overall.
Click to expand...

Yes, she's a bruiser not a warrior, and should be played like that - you need a proper tank to go with her. Used to be OP, now a bit lack lustre compare to other melee assassins. She does still have the issue that at 20 she becomes practically unkillable which is annoying. Her leap build is very good at deleting backlines, esp in conjunction with other AE effects.

Xul - Surprisingly fun. Reliable root. Melee AoE. Skeleton minions. Does he have a role in the current meta?
Click to expand...

In standard hero league, heroes with great wave clear and pushing power like xul are always going to be decent I feel. He's particulary good on some maps (Blackhearts Bat, Infernal Shrines, Tomb of the spider queen) when he can rotate between two lanes and push both, but honestly he's never really a bad pick in a standard team as long as you also have ranged damage to back his roots up.

The Butcher - Late game with 125 meat he's a giggle a minute. Absolutely devastating damage. Having only played him vs AI I can imagine that he might have issues staying alive against a competent team that knows to make him a priority. Seems like he might be a force to be reckoned with but might need a babysitter to be fully viable. Still, he's really fun.
Click to expand...

No idea tbh. Has a really high win rate but I don't see it at all, as you can just blow him up when he goes in in my experience. Very snowbally hero, who is the opposite of what he used ot be (at launch was an early game gank machine, now he needs to farm his stacks and comes online once he completes that quest). I'd say there were strong melee assasins to focus on - Thrall, Alarak, Varian, Artanis in particular.

On a related note, who are the basic "must have" characters that should be unlocked ASAP? I just want to be sure I have my bases covered as I go forward and make sure I dont have any glaring holes if I want to actually play against human beings once in a while.
Click to expand...

You ideally would want a few heroes in each role. even if you don't intend on playing the role at some point you'll end up in it so it's good to have at least one fallback. My suggestions fro someone new to the game would be:

Tank: Muradin, ETC, then Diablo. Muradin and ETC are staples, both do the tank job well, both set up kills and disrupt the enemy team. Diablo is also fantastic BUT he comes with a big caveat - it's easy to play him poorly, and he can often fuck up your own team by charging or flipping people inappropriatly. Play him by all means but watch out for that!

Ranged DPS: Valla, Tychus, Jaina. Ignoring the bugged Raynor issue, those three give you a versatile sustained dps, a tank killer and the best burst mage currently available. There's a huge selection to pick from tbh, and arguments can be made for many many heroe,s but I'm never upset to see those three in my draft.
(Tychus in particular IS the meta-game right now outside of Raynors bugs. I don't think most people appreciate how he affects drafts). All three have multiple viable builds as well which I think important for game enjoyment.

Specialists: Xul, Sylvanas. Those are the two you might be aksed to play the most, both allow for split pushing and ultra fast wave clear. On some maps if you don't have Sylvanas it can really fuck your teams draft (Battlefield, Braxxis, Haunted Mines, Infernal Shrines).

Melee DPS: Thrall, Thrall, Thrall. Until earthquake is nerfed he's the best melee assassin by far. After that Ragnaros I'd suggest.

Support: Rehgar, Malfurion, Brightwing. Auriel as well if you like the role, but those are the main three you should have in your pocket.


Note there are LOTS of other heroes you can go with, and several who are better than the above. All that list is an attempt to sum up the common "really common picks" that you will either play with or against in a lot of games, so you need to know them and how they work. I'm sure lots of people will point out there are better choices in all the tiers, but honestly think that's a decent starting point for someone new the game.
 
K

kirblar

Member
I'd toss Johanna in with the tanks as well.

Agree that Tychus is pretty dumb right now- he's too versatile and should be more specialized.
 
K

kirblar

Member
Concept17 said:
So got around to playing Nazeebo again since returning and what did they do to this hero? Feels different. Is he in a good place?
Click to expand...
No, not really.

They made the Q have to hit in an attempt to raise the skill cap during a rework, but all it did was make his skill floor too damn high and unreliable.
 
M

Maledict

Member
kirblar said:
No, not really.

They made the Q have to hit in an attempt to raise the skill cap during a rework, but all it did was make his skill floor too damn high and unreliable.
Click to expand...

Yep. The core is there but it's too hard to play for too little a reward. I enjoy the spiders build a lot, but it's still the lowest win rate build for him because its so damn easy to miss the spiders, and if that happens he contributes nothing unless you can get a good wall. You even see Kaeyoh missing and he's one of the best Nazeepo players around.
 
C

Concept17

Member
Maledict said:
Yep. The core is there but it's too hard to play for too little a reward. I enjoy the spiders build a lot, but it's still the lowest win rate build for him because its so damn easy to miss the spiders, and if that happens he contributes nothing unless you can get a good wall. You even see Kaeyoh missing and he's one of the best Nazeepo players around.
Click to expand...

kirblar said:
No, not really.

They made the Q have to hit in an attempt to raise the skill cap during a rework, but all it did was make his skill floor too damn high and unreliable.
Click to expand...

Damn, this is unfortunate. I loved him before, even though he always felt a little underpowered.
 
A

Alur

Member
That's two heroes in a row a day late. Are we shifting to Wednesday for NA and Thursday for EU permanently or this is just a holiday thing?
 
M

Maledict

Member
To be fair they did say January 13th for him originally didn't they? He's certainly turning up earlier than I was expecting this week.

Jowe currently streaming in absolute salt monster mode, it's really sad to see. He used to be great to watch, now he just rages and bitches constantly. You can't play a smurf account and *only* play Samuro (no matter the map, team comp or anything) and then complain about other players.
 
M

matmanx1

Member
Maledict said:
Not really - she has lower health than a lot of heroes (Valla at 20 has less health than Tychus at 10), but she pretty much does everything. Can be a tank killer, can be a duellist, can be a backline poker. Very hard to find a team she doens't fit in.



Yep - deliberately designed to be really simple and easy to play as your first ever hero. Problem at the moment is his Hyperion Ultimate is bugged and wildly overpowered for team fights, which means you have to play him or ban him.



Yes, she's a bruiser not a warrior, and should be played like that - you need a proper tank to go with her. Used to be OP, now a bit lack lustre compare to other melee assassins. She does still have the issue that at 20 she becomes practically unkillable which is annoying. Her leap build is very good at deleting backlines, esp in conjunction with other AE effects.



In standard hero league, heroes with great wave clear and pushing power like xul are always going to be decent I feel. He's particulary good on some maps (Blackhearts Bat, Infernal Shrines, Tomb of the spider queen) when he can rotate between two lanes and push both, but honestly he's never really a bad pick in a standard team as long as you also have ranged damage to back his roots up.



No idea tbh. Has a really high win rate but I don't see it at all, as you can just blow him up when he goes in in my experience. Very snowbally hero, who is the opposite of what he used ot be (at launch was an early game gank machine, now he needs to farm his stacks and comes online once he completes that quest). I'd say there were strong melee assasins to focus on - Thrall, Alarak, Varian, Artanis in particular.



You ideally would want a few heroes in each role. even if you don't intend on playing the role at some point you'll end up in it so it's good to have at least one fallback. My suggestions fro someone new to the game would be:

Tank: Muradin, ETC, then Diablo. Muradin and ETC are staples, both do the tank job well, both set up kills and disrupt the enemy team. Diablo is also fantastic BUT he comes with a big caveat - it's easy to play him poorly, and he can often fuck up your own team by charging or flipping people inappropriatly. Play him by all means but watch out for that!

Ranged DPS: Valla, Tychus, Jaina. Ignoring the bugged Raynor issue, those three give you a versatile sustained dps, a tank killer and the best burst mage currently available. There's a huge selection to pick from tbh, and arguments can be made for many many heroe,s but I'm never upset to see those three in my draft.
(Tychus in particular IS the meta-game right now outside of Raynors bugs. I don't think most people appreciate how he affects drafts). All three have multiple viable builds as well which I think important for game enjoyment.

Specialists: Xul, Sylvanas. Those are the two you might be aksed to play the most, both allow for split pushing and ultra fast wave clear. On some maps if you don't have Sylvanas it can really fuck your teams draft (Battlefield, Braxxis, Haunted Mines, Infernal Shrines).

Melee DPS: Thrall, Thrall, Thrall. Until earthquake is nerfed he's the best melee assassin by far. After that Ragnaros I'd suggest.

Support: Rehgar, Malfurion, Brightwing. Auriel as well if you like the role, but those are the main three you should have in your pocket.


Note there are LOTS of other heroes you can go with, and several who are better than the above. All that list is an attempt to sum up the common "really common picks" that you will either play with or against in a lot of games, so you need to know them and how they work. I'm sure lots of people will point out there are better choices in all the tiers, but honestly think that's a decent starting point for someone new the game.
Click to expand...

Thank you for this. Based on your list I have most of these unlocked already with the exception of Jaina, Tychus and Thrall. I do have at least a couple of picks in each role unlocked but have a lot of learning to do about who does what and when.

Regarding Zul'jin, I have 15k+ gold saved for him. I've been a Warcraft Troll fan for a long time so I hope he's competitive and as fun as he appeared to be in the video Blizzard showed for him.
 
J

joelseph

Member
Finally dipped my toe into the HOTS pool.

I played LOL long ago but never really learned "how to moba". I've been looking around online for good guides but usually only find build guides.

I can kick the crap out of adept A.I. but am still too nervous to get into the real deal. Can anyone point me to any friendly info for new HOTS players? Preferably written for someone without an extensive moba background?

I started the tutorial but feel a little too advanced for that atleast at the start. Is it good to stick with to learn some more advanced concepts?

I guess I'm looking for stuff that is more than just basic knowledge, stuff that will help me not be a burden to my team.
 
A

Alur

Member
It's not what you're probably wanting to hear, but the best course of action is to just jump right into Quick Match and feel it out yourself. If you're stomping bots, you're more than ready. Only so much you can learn from that and not as much fun to be had, for sure.

I'm unaware of any up-to-date new player guides, but there are individual hero overviews made by players like McIntyre and Srey that go into the finer details on specific heroes, their builds, and how to maximize that hero. There are also a few guides out there for map specific stuff (the objectives, timers, etc) but I'm not sure if there is one for every map as some are more popular (and recent) than others.

As a new player, one of the best things you can do for yourself is attempt to level as many heroes from the free rotation to 5 each week as you can. This serves three purposes: (1) you learn how the hero works and what to expect when you encounter it, (2) you get 500 gold for every hero you get to level 5, and of course (3) you find out if that hero is one that you enjoy or dislike before spending gold/$$ on it.

Jumping into Quick Match seems daunting but I wouldn't worry too much. Pick a hero you like and do well with in AI mode (a ranged hero is probably best to start, IMO), and jump on in there. If you're truly worried, mute the Allied Chat and then you can't see any BM that occurs. Nearly every single player you play with will be as new as you are, so you should be just fine and I would bet you'll probably excel over them being as you're on this forum trying to learn things outside the game...most players aren't.

Hope that helps and welcome aboard!
 
M

Maledict

Member
Id also recommend muting people at the first sign of any unpleasantness at all. You can even just mute everyone all the time if you want, I know some in the thread do it. You don't need to hear what they are saying most of the time, and it can make your games a lot more fun.
 
A

AbundantChoice

Member
Alur said:
I
Jumping into Quick Match seems daunting but I wouldn't worry too much. Pick a hero you like and do well with in AI mode (a ranged hero is probably best to start, IMO), and jump on in there. If you're truly worried, mute the Allied Chat and then you can't see any BM that occurs. Nearly every single player you play with will be as new as you are, so you should be just fine and I would bet you'll probably excel over them being as you're on this forum trying to learn things outside the game...most players aren't.
Click to expand...

Yeah, i'd agree with this, only I always level my chars to 5 before bringing them into Quick Match, just to get a feel for which skills to pick along the way. The guides online for "optimal" skill picks for each char are a good start, but (a) they might be geared to a different skill level or play environment than random pub QMs, and (b) they don't know your personal playstyle, which means often going "off-script" can be better for you. Those guides are generally good for avoiding the truly "bad" picks at each level if nothing else.

And yeah, QM isn't meant to be super-serious. If you run across salty players and people being toxic, don't sweat it, they're almost always the ones being silly. As long as you're not constantly feeding / over-extending / over-chasing (which seems to be the biggest problem in low-level QM), you'll be fine.

Also, the toughest thing to suck up and do is realize in unorganized play that following the team on a dumb idea (post-lv 10 where obsessively covering each lane is less of a priority) is still probably better off than going off and lone-wolfing things on your own. Unless you are a few specific characters who are kind of designed to just go off and do their own thing, abandoning what the team is doing to go off and do something else, even if that thing the team is doing is really, really stupid, is usually a good way to get your team killed and then you killed shortly thereafter.
 
scoobs

scoobs

Member
Concept17 said:
So got around to playing Nazeebo again since returning and what did they do to this hero? Feels different. Is he in a good place?
Click to expand...
Nazeebo is insane. Don't listen to these fools. Go all spider talents, gargantuan and trait upgrade at level 20 and delete people. He's very very good
 
scoobs

scoobs

Member
Milly79 said:
Don't listen to this guy.
Click to expand...

WHz1Bv9.png
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Yeah the spider build is a nice gimmick, good on stationary objectives(Battlefield of Eternity is probably it's best map), but the zombie build is the best.
 
C

Concept17

Member
Tried some spider build earlier. Was pretty solid. Makes all the difference when you land the spiders.

What's the zombie build?

Spiders generally seem weaker than they once did.
 
K

Kioshen

Member
Since I don't follow closely the meta on hots is there a talent list that you guys use ? I usually use Srey's list and adjust according to what's going on in the match but is there any other place (except hotslogs of course) ?
 
M

Milly79

Member
scoobs said:
Is statistical evidence anecdotal evidence? Or is your opinion anecdotal evidence? I'm going to take the next 10-15 minutes to ponder. You do the same.
Click to expand...

Ok brah. You do that while everyone else says he sucks and you continue to say everyone but you sucks. Take 15 minutes to ponder if he should listen to the majority or your dumb ass opinions.
 
scoobs

scoobs

Member
Jesus, take a breather man and don't take things so personally. I'm sorry your point was terrible.

Stats say he doesn't suck, you guys say he does? I'm going to go with my gut here, and also not get mad about it because I couldn't care less what anyone says in here.

Nazeebo is 13th best win rate across all leagues, and 12th in master/diamond league. You can't say he's bad. He might not be top tier, but he's definitely not bad.

I play him all the time and really fucking enjoy the spider build personally. The unavoidable burst damage when you land it is borderline OP (particularly when you get vile infection @ lvl20). Also he's a direct counter to Minglee, chromie, KT, Jaina w/ superstition. He's good.
 
B

BreezyLimbo

Banned
Milly79 said:
Ok brah. You do that while everyone else says he sucks and you continue to say everyone but you sucks. Take 15 minutes to ponder if he should listen to the majority or your dumb ass opinions.
Click to expand...

majority of what though

reddit? gaf? the statistics do have nazeebo at a 52% winrate, and statistics speak louder than incessant yelling..
 
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