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[Pristine_Condition]

So no way to make them 1080p??

Why would you want to do this anyway? If you are trying to show the quality of Blu-ray off, any downloaded movie trailer, even a HQ one in 1080p, isn't even going to come close to approaching the level of quality you get on an actual Blu-ray disc. The bitrate on downloaded material is simply too low, and the compression level too high.

You could play those files off a DVD on a PS3 at 1080p (depending on the file type this may require some conversion though, which will degrade the quality a bit more)

 

[BlueTsunami]

I'll be definitely buying more BD movies, I currently own 300 and The Fountain (thats it). I think I may purchase Planet URF

Its also good, the PS3 beying my BD player. If BD is ever relegated to Laser Disk obscurity (even after the death of HDDVD) It'll still be hooked up in my living room for PSX, PS2 and PS3 games (instead of being a paper weight)

 

[Laurent]

http://warnerlied.blogspot.com/

Holy Christ.

Protip: If you become emotionally invested in the format you watch your movies in, seek professional help.

I don't feel sorry for any of these "victims." If you don't want to get some shrapnel in your face from a technology war, don't set foot on the battlefield.

Quoted for emphasis...

 

[Kolgar]

If anything, Warner made the only informed decision in the whole God damned war.

Quoted for justice.

With great power comes great responsibility. Warner was kingmaker, and I think they took great pains to make the best decision they could, both for their business and for HDM in general.

Back to movies, I picked up Ratatouille over the weekend. Cute film. My girlfriend's an extraordinary cook and she especially loved it.

 

[borghe]

Quoted for emphasis...

applying to both sides. Purly ridiculous the number of "We WON!!" posts in this thread on friday.

honestly, the high-def format war was just as stupid and moronic as the console wars had ever been. my guess is many of the participants in it are the same ones that have been going back and forth over Sony, MS, Nintendo, and Sega over the last 15 years.

 

[Elios83]

Toshiba said they would evaluate future pontential steps with their partners. I hope that Universal and Paramount make them realize that its in their best interests at this point to admit defeat on the movie business. Delaying Universal switch and Paramount return to Blu Ray will only hurt these two companies and will be a useless practice for everyone involved since HD-DVD sales will collapse within a month as soon as everyone will read all the recent reports, and the best thing Toshiba can do with their format is to position it as really cheap solution for optical data storing on PCs while starting to think about manufacturing Blu Ray players at the end of the year.

 

[StoOgE]

So, Sammy unveleid a new combo format player that is 1.1 compliant, decodes DTS-MA into PCM and passes all codecs via bitstream. Hopefully this comes out still.

 

[Eel O'Brian]

BTW part of the reason I'm glad that HD-DVD is now dead is that I'm sick of saying and typing it. HD-DVD... it's a graceless mouthful both to say and to type. Blu-ray, for all its faults, at least sounds kinda slick and cool. I don't think it was a factor in the war, but I'm glad it's worked out the way it has. Just think of all the syllables I'll save over the next few years.

On the minus side, that bright blue box makes everything look like a Fisher Price toy. "Fisher Price presents The Condemned, starring Stone Cold Steve Austin." Looks-wise, I preferred the red box. Actually, I prefer the plain black DVD boxes over anything else.

 

[borghe]

I'm hoping there is a way for Toshiba and HD-DVD to save face on this, exit gracefully, and maybe make a little money on the end of the war to boot. It's not like they were some festering boil of a company.. they were a competitor who lost. Maybe BDA is willing to pay out a premium on the Universal and Paramount contracts. Maybe the HD-DVD replication plants can be sold and converted to BRD. I mean let's face facts, if it wasn't for HD-DVD, do you really think we'd only be paying $299 now for BRPs, especially considering it's been sony's intent for a while now to have the PS3 as the cheapest BRP on the market? Not to mention I have to believe that if it wasn't for the cheaper production costs and initial lower price of HD-DVDs (non-combo) we'd see a lot more BRDs closer to a $40 price point instead of a $30 one.

Hopefully there is something in bowing out for the HD-DVD group.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

"While HD DVD and Blu-ray have both lost key supporters recently, Microsoft's Xbox Live Marketplace seems to just keep adding new content providers, this time bringing MGM and Disney-ABC Television Group to the fold."

From EngadgetHD.

Engadget's a pretty good source of news, but they were notorious for playing the "HD-DVD and Blu-ray are essentially deadlocked" card in little comments all the time. It looks like WB's announcement hasn't changed that at all!

I wonder if they'll make any kind of shift as Blu-ray takes off now.

 

[Eel O'Brian]

When I first bought a DVD player in late 1999, two years after they were introduced, DVDs were still around the $30 retail price mark. The first DVD I ever bought, John Carpenter's The Thing, cost me $27 after tax. Anyone thinking new release movies on Blu Ray (or HD DVD, if it had become the premiere format) are going to be $15 day-and-date a year from now is in for a disappointment. There will be exceptions, as there were for DVD, but the majority of releases are going to sit at a high price point for quite some time.

 

[borghe]

When I first bought a DVD player in late 1999, two years after they were introduced, DVDs were still around the $30 retail price mark. The first DVD I ever bought, John Carpenter's The Thing, cost me $27 after tax. Anyone thinking new release movies on Blu Ray (or HD DVD, if it had become the premiere format) are going to be $15 day-and-date a year from now is in for a disappointment. There will be exceptions, as there were for DVD, but the majority of releases are going to sit at a high price point for quite some time.

to be fair, you are comparing one of Universal's Collector's Editions (a then renowned yet pricey line) to average every day discs. You seem to forget that Godzilla (GINO) premiered day and date on DVD the fall before at just $17.99 on release week, and most of Warner's original catalog offerings were at just $19.99 by that point. By 1999 most discs were $25 or under and most new releases were $19.99 or just under the week of release.

This year prices will fall and stabilize by $5 at B&M. If not, expect another terriblyl sluggish year as J6P remains apathetic to BRD in favor of the better priced more convenient DVDs.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Eel speaks truth. I remember buying some movies that I was iffy on, only because they were a "good" price @ $20.

 

[BlueTsunami]

Seeing as how BDs and HDDVDs are priced on Amazon, I'm actually happy they aren't even higher! I remember when speculation was abroad about BD's costing $35-$40 per disk (due to some "higher than normal" fabbing processes the BDs had to go through).

 

[plagiarize]

to be fair, you are comparing one of Universal's Collector's Editions (a then renowned yet pricey line) to average every day discs. You seem to forget that Godzilla (GINO) premiered day and date on DVD the fall before at just $17.99 on release week, and most of Warner's original catalog offerings were at just $19.99 by that point. By 1999 most discs were $25 or under and most new releases were $19.99 or just under the week of release.

This year prices will fall and stabilize by $5 at B&M. If not, expect another terriblyl sluggish year as J6P remains apathetic to BRD in favor of the better priced more convenient DVDs.

if HD discs have to hit the same price point as DVDs to take off, that should tell you something.

we have to hope they don't need to to take off, because otherwise it just proves your average consumer doesn't care.

 

[borghe]

I said $25 or less. Very very very very few movies were above $25 by 1999. About the only ones I can think of were Fox, who was majorly panned because they were one of the few studios still releasing non-special editions at $30. and multi-disc special editions. But most by 1999 were $25 or less with most new releases going under $20 on their release week.

Even THAT would be a major advantage over what we have now, at $30 for most BRD releases, and virtually no discounting happening at release week. Dropping by $5 would bring new releases to $25, catalogs closer to $20, and with the introduction of release week discounting could see new releases drop under $20 ($19.99).

I mean fox is STILL doing $35 new releases!!!! We are still at least $5 off from where DVD was in 1999.

if HD discs have to hit the same price point as DVDs to take off, that should tell you something.

we have to hope they don't need to to take off, because otherwise it just proves your average consumer doesn't care.

unfortunately it tells you exactly what you are afraid of hearing. J6P is content with HD cable/satellite and DVD. They won't switch over to BRD until the cost to do so is negligible.

DVD did a lot of things that it is hard for BRD to replicate. Special features, actual retail releases for movies from studios that previously only did rental releases. perfect digital picture with perfect ffwd and rwd. perfect sound. etc. BRD doesn't have this level of shininess to make DVD look obsolete the way DVD made VHS look. The only way mainstream consumers are going to move to it is if they can do so with $199 players and discs for the same or similar cost. There are a ton of people I know personally right now who say "I have HD satellite... that's good enough for me." Yet they still buy DVDs. It's that thought of laying out $300+ for a new player and then having to pay $30 a movie (as they mostly buy B&M) vs. $17.99 for the same movie on DVD.

 

[nubbe]

It is only natural for prices to be higher on a new format when there are few releases and no library.
The same thing happens on the game side. But prices of older titles drop as new releases come and soon after that prices on new releases also drop to compete with the large library of discounted media.
It take some time but in a year or two the average price will be much lower and it should go a bit faster if Universal and Paramount switch side.

As far as I remeber... New DVD releases are about 40% cheaper now than when I got my first DVD sometime in 2000. DVD's back then were more expensive than Blurays are now during the intial release.

 

[kaching]

if HD discs have to hit the same price point as DVDs to take off, that should tell you something.

we have to hope they don't need to to take off, because otherwise it just proves your average consumer doesn't care.

Why? DVD had to go through the same thing. The majority didn't buy into DVD until pricing put it in the range that made it attractive to them.

 

[borghe]

As far as I remeber... New DVD releases are about 40% cheaper now than when I got my first DVD sometime in 2000. DVD's back then were more expensive than Blurays are now during the intial release.

No way. Matrix came out in fall of 1999 for $15.99 on it's first week at Best Buy. DVDs haven't been as all around expensive as current B&M BRD pricing since 1998.

Of course pricing will drop. My only point is if that doesn't happen by at least $5 this year that sales will remain relatively flat and the general mainstream consumer will remain completely apathetic to the format.

 

[jax (old)]

I'd like dreamworks to release my favourite animated film of theirs.... "PRINCE OF EGYPT" on bluray.

please!!!

 

[Jeff-DSA]

I'm not willing to praise Warner (nor any other exclusive studios) for taking a moneyhat to go format exclusive. I find it sad that the "war" was decided by studio exclusivity, which was mostly bought off, instead of letting the consumer decide. In most instances it is the public that votes with their dollar, but this time around it was the studios and the manufacturers that decided how it all played out.

Honestly, without any exclusivity at all (save Sony, obviously), how do you think this war would have gone? On one hand you have the PS3 effect, but on the other hand you have the cheaper HD-DVD drives. You'd have Disney, Paramount, Universal, Dreamworks, Warner, etc. all neutral. This is how I would have wanted the war to play out. Let the CONSUMER decide, not some back room deals. Even the bluest members here would have to admit that there's something somewhat wrong with how it all played out.

Whatever though, at least the future is a whole heck of a lot more clear.

 

[Zaptruder]

I'm not willing to praise Warner (nor any other exclusive studios) for taking a moneyhat to go format exclusive. I find it sad that the "war" was decided by studio exclusivity, which was mostly bought off, instead of letting the consumer decide. In most instances it is the public that votes with their dollar, but this time around it was the studios and the manufacturers that decided how it all played out.

Honestly, without any exclusivity at all (save Sony, obviously), how do you think this war would have gone? On one hand you have the PS3 effect, but on the other hand you have the cheaper HD-DVD drives. You'd have Disney, Paramount, Universal, Dreamworks, Warner, etc. all neutral. This is how I would have wanted the war to play out. Let the CONSUMER decide, not some back room deals. Even the bluest members here would have to admit that there's something somewhat wrong with how it all played out.

Whatever though, at least the future is a whole heck of a lot more clear.

Seems like consumers did decide pretty clearly in favour of Blu-ray. After all HD-DVD cards were played and the ratio still relatively unmoved... well, there would be no point letting it play out further when DVD sales themselves were at stake.

 

[borghe]

Seems like consumers did decide pretty clearly in favour of Blu-ray. After all HD-DVD cards were played and the ratio still relatively unmoved... well, there would be no point letting it play out further when DVD sales themselves were at stake.

his point is that the consumer "decided" generally on the fact that Fox, Disney, and Sony were all exclusive to BRD as well as being able to pick up all current Warner releases. It wasn't really a decision at all so much as "which format would I gain the most movies with". That's not the same effect had all studios (except Sony) been format neutral.

 

[Ignatz Mouse]

Jeff, while I agree with you in spirit, studio exclusiity has been a known factor since before either format hit the street. In fact, that's *why* I chose Blu-ray-- they had obviously done more work to get the studios on board, and content sells formats, not price or features. And as we've seen over the past year, content has driven the Blu-ray sales.

In fact, if WB had actually been more neutral in the beginning, and Fox not absent, we'd have seen an even more lopsided year.

 

[plagiarize]

Why? DVD had to go through the same thing. The majority didn't buy into DVD until pricing put it in the range that made it attractive to them.

if Blu-Ray has to reach the same price as DVD to take off, then it tells you that the average consumer doesn't care about HD. then, given that DVD will still have higher profit margins, why would companies releasing disks make the switch to Blu-Ray and phase out DVD?

that's why anyone hoping for Blu-Ray to replace DVD needs to hope it takes off before the disks cost about the same.

DVD's started to take off when they were more expensive than VHS. but then you got 'more' for your money.

personally i'm only hoping that Blu-Ray remains successful enough that they keep releasing the right kind of films in HD until something else inevitably comes along and replaces both Blu-Ray and DVD.

that isn't going to happen any time soon (sorry download fans, your bitrates suck).

 

[borghe]

if Blu-Ray has to reach the same price as DVD to take off, then it tells you that the average consumer doesn't care about HD. then, given that DVD will still have higher profit margins, why would companies releasing disks make the switch to Blu-Ray and phase out DVD?

eventually minimum cost to manufacture will come into play. there will be no additional cost to manufacture a BRD over DVD and the cost to manufacture both will outweigh the benefit to having both on market.

that's why anyone hoping for Blu-Ray to replace DVD needs to hope it takes off before the disks cost about the same.

DVD's started to take off when they were more expensive than VHS. but then you got 'more' for your money.

As I've been saying for like three posts now, DVD's didn't take off until 1999, and not until really fall of 1999 on that. Link What happened fall of 1999? Oh, a little movie called Matrix hit and sold though almost 1M copies in it's first week. And for those who are insisting that DVD prices were the same in 1999 and 2000, go look at other posts on those pages I linked to. MSRP of $24.99 and $27.99 during most of 1999... vs. most titles today with MSRPs of $39.99 and $34.99 (remember, the price at Best Buy is still around $10 lower than MSRP). Pricing still has a long ways to go (more than the $5 I'm asking for based on MSRP) for it to be anywhere near what DVD was when it took off big.

And for those hoping BRD takes off before pricing hits those levels, answer this. When in the history of consumerism has there ever been a mass mainstream adoption of a considerably more expensive technology compared to the existing tech? CDs didn't take off big until the average disc was under $12 back in the early 90's, despite being around for over 5 years. DVDs didn't take off big until you started seeing discs regularly priced under $20. Even video game consoles and games don't take off to mass market levels until the system generally hits under $199. It is all about pricing to J6P. If something costs more, what they currently have is good enough.

 

[favouriteflavour]

While I agree with this general sentiment, you'll be happy to know that No Country for Old Men will be out on Blu-Ray in North America.

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/s...No_Country_for_Old_Men_Coming_to_Blu-ray/1264

this one of those international distribution deals? Doesnt help me though, I am in australia and it might be region locked.

 

[Laurent]

The phase out of DVD won't be happening before minimum 5 years IMO, so we will live with both formats until then, just like we did with DVD / VHS...

 

[jeremy_ricci]

I'm not willing to praise Warner (nor any other exclusive studios) for taking a moneyhat to go format exclusive. I find it sad that the "war" was decided by studio exclusivity, which was mostly bought off, instead of letting the consumer decide. In most instances it is the public that votes with their dollar, but this time around it was the studios and the manufacturers that decided how it all played out.

Honestly, without any exclusivity at all (save Sony, obviously), how do you think this war would have gone? On one hand you have the PS3 effect, but on the other hand you have the cheaper HD-DVD drives. You'd have Disney, Paramount, Universal, Dreamworks, Warner, etc. all neutral. This is how I would have wanted the war to play out. Let the CONSUMER decide, not some back room deals. Even the bluest members here would have to admit that there's something somewhat wrong with how it all played out.

Whatever though, at least the future is a whole heck of a lot more clear.

No.

 

[borghe]

The phase out of DVD won't be happening before minimum 5 years IMO, so we will live with both formats until then, just like we did with DVD / VHS...

The phase out isn't the exciting thing everyone is waiting for. Technically the phase out doesn't happen until the format starts to die, which is really what everyone is waiting for.

DVD first beat VHS sales on individual titles in 2001. They first beat overall VHS sales in 2002. They first beat VHS rentals in 2003.

Now that the war is over, these are the targets that the BDA should be focusing on. While DVD won't be phased out for at least 5 years (you are correct), it's not entirely unrealistic to hope to see BRD take dominance (Now available on Blu-ray and DVD) by the end of next year.

 

[bill0527]

I'm not willing to praise Warner (nor any other exclusive studios) for taking a moneyhat to go format exclusive. I find it sad that the "war" was decided by studio exclusivity, which was mostly bought off, instead of letting the consumer decide. In most instances it is the public that votes with their dollar, but this time around it was the studios and the manufacturers that decided how it all played out.

Honestly, without any exclusivity at all (save Sony, obviously), how do you think this war would have gone? On one hand you have the PS3 effect, but on the other hand you have the cheaper HD-DVD drives. You'd have Disney, Paramount, Universal, Dreamworks, Warner, etc. all neutral. This is how I would have wanted the war to play out. Let the CONSUMER decide, not some back room deals. Even the bluest members here would have to admit that there's something somewhat wrong with how it all played out.

Whatever though, at least the future is a whole heck of a lot more clear.

But you knew which side everyone was on when the war started. The only 2 studios who budged were Paramount and Warner. I knew going into the war which side had the most studio support and which side would be fighting an uphill battle the whole way. As I said in an earlier post, that's why I decided to go with a PS3 for my hi-def movies. I knew that if Blu lost, I'd still be able to sell the PS3 and get at least 2/3 of my money back, whereas if HD-DVD lost, I'd be left with a doorstop when the new releases trickled out.

I don't think anyone was happy how the war started, but I'm sure glad that it played out in one side's favor in just a few short years rather than having it draw out over a decade like VHS v. Betamax.

According to Warner, consumers are the ones who decided the outcome because of consistent victories by Blu-Ray software sales on a weekly bases for the last year and HD-DVD players not being able to capture a majority of the market, despite having the cheaper format.

 

[plagiarize]

eventually minimum cost to manufacture will come into play. there will be no additional cost to manufacture a BRD over DVD and the cost to manufacture both will outweigh the benefit to having both on market.


As I've been saying for like three posts now, DVD's didn't take off until 1999, and not until really fall of 1999 on that. Link What happened fall of 1999? Oh, a little movie called Matrix hit and sold though almost 1M copies in it's first week. And for those who are insisting that DVD prices were the same in 1999 and 2000, go look at other posts on those pages I linked to. MSRP of $24.99 and $27.99 during most of 1999... vs. most titles today with MSRPs of $39.99 and $34.99 (remember, the price at Best Buy is still around $10 lower than MSRP). Pricing still has a long ways to go (more than the $5 I'm asking for based on MSRP) for it to be anywhere near what DVD was when it took off big.

And for those hoping BRD takes off before pricing hits those levels, answer this. When in the history of consumerism has there ever been a mass mainstream adoption of a considerably more expensive technology compared to the existing tech? CDs didn't take off big until the average disc was under $12 back in the early 90's, despite being around for over 5 years. DVDs didn't take off big until you started seeing discs regularly priced under $20. Even video game consoles and games don't take off to mass market levels until the system generally hits under $199. It is all about pricing to J6P. If something costs more, what they currently have is good enough.

BRD will never be cheaper to manufacture than DVD.

i'm not talking about surpassing VHS sales, i'm just saying started to take off, and DVD started to take off before DVDs were cheaper to buy than VHS movies.

how much did the Matrix cost on VHS when it first came out? was it cheaper? i don't know about America cause I wasn't here at the time... but it was certainly more expensive on DVD than it was on VHS in the UK.

also DVD was *much cheaper* to manufacture than VHS by the time it reached large scale... Blu-Ray never will be. so why force it on consumers that don't want it?

again, let me restate, that i think Blu-Ray will be a success, just not a replacement for DVD.

 

[Forsete]

this one of those international distribution deals? Doesnt help me though, I am in australia and it might be region locked.

IIRC Disney locks new releases.

 

[OokieSpookie]

"While HD DVD and Blu-ray have both lost key supporters recently, Microsoft's Xbox Live Marketplace seems to just keep adding new content providers, this time bringing MGM and Disney-ABC Television Group to the fold."

From EngadgetHD.

Engadget's a pretty good source of news, but they were notorious for playing the "HD-DVD and Blu-ray are essentially deadlocked" card in little comments all the time. It looks like WB's announcement hasn't changed that at all!

I wonder if they'll make any kind of shift as Blu-ray takes off now.

EngadgetHD has been anti blu from the beginning and made no effort to even fake differently.

 

[avaya]

BRD will never be cheaper to manufacture than DVD.

i'm not talking about surpassing VHS sales, i'm just saying started to take off, and DVD started to take off before DVDs were cheaper to buy than VHS movies.

how much did the Matrix cost on VHS when it first came out? was it cheaper? i don't know about America cause I wasn't here at the time... but it was certainly more expensive on DVD than it was on VHS in the UK.

also DVD was *much cheaper* to manufacture than VHS by the time it reached large scale... Blu-Ray never will be. so why force it on consumers that don't want it?

again, let me restate, that i think Blu-Ray will be a success, just not a replacement for DVD.

Blu-ray vs DVD is a case of $1-$2 more expensive. It will come down to cents worth of difference soon enough. Manufacturing cost is absolutely tiny for optical media. It's not really a concern.

Currently BD-50 replication is MEI, Sony DADC and Cinram. This will expand, much further.

The companies involved only require Blu-ray to be a fraction of the success DVD was in order to earn vast royalties.

 

[borghe]

BRD will never be cheaper to manufacture than DVD.

this logic is entirely baffling. it is a pressed on a non-compound media using a plastic shell. the only thing really more expensive at this point is the process which will eventually come down as quantities go up. saying BRD will never be as cheap to manufacture as DVDs is as silly as saying DVDs will never be as cheap to manufacture as CDs.

how much did the Matrix cost on VHS when it first came out? was it cheaper? i don't know about America cause I wasn't here at the time... but it was certainly more expensive on DVD than it was on VHS in the UK.

I don't remember what the VHS was, but the DVD was $15.99. At that point it didn't really matter what the VHS was priced at. $15.99 is a major consumer price point. edit - for the record though, the VHS would have had to been above $9.99.. as VHS until right before it's actual death was never priced below $10 on new releases... *shakes his fist at George Lucas and Episode I*

also DVD was *much cheaper* to manufacture than VHS by the time it reached large scale... Blu-Ray never will be. so why force it on consumers that don't want it?

DVD was cheaper simply because VHS still needed hundreds of feet of tape and the plastic shell. again, that whole minimum cost to manufacture. the best you could do to lower VHS' cost was to record EP (which some studios did) thus reducing the length of tape needed. Not to mention to manufacture VHS you still needed to actually record on that hundreds of feet of tape. Total time to "record" to (aka press) a disc is like 1.5 seconds. Not even close here.

Also, why do you insist BRD is being forced on anyone? I am simply stating that once costs come down to the point of being negligible ($199 players and $19.99-24.99 software) that J6P will be much more inclined to purchase. Couple that with a couple of major releases (Dark Knight and Indiana Jones) and it could be enough to shift the momentum from DVD to BRD.

Consumers don't want it right now because players are $300 and when they walk into best buy, movies are $30-35.

 

[Laurent]

The phase out isn't the exciting thing everyone is waiting for. Technically the phase out doesn't happen until the format starts to die, which is really what everyone is waiting for.

DVD first beat VHS sales on individual titles in 2001. They first beat overall VHS sales in 2002. They first beat VHS rentals in 2003.

Now that the war is over, these are the targets that the BDA should be focusing on. While DVD won't be phased out for at least 5 years (you are correct), it's not entirely unrealistic to hope to see BRD take dominance (Now available on Blu-ray and DVD) by the end of next year.

I am even more careful by stating that the phase-out won't START before another 5 years, and I still think it's too early to state that the war is over (although I am confident that BRD will win). I am waiting to see which studio will fold first, Paramount or Universal...

 

[borghe]

I am even more careful by stating that the phase-out won't START before another 5 years, and I still think it's too early to state that the war is over (although I am confident that BRD will win). I am waiting to see which studio will fold first, Paramount or Universal...

both studios will announce coming to BRD during 1H08. That I WOULD make a ban bet on. The only collapse in history to outpace what will be HD-DVDs at this point is the Dreamcast.

I honestly see it only being a matter of BRD paying HD-DVD to bring them over at this point. that and/or Toshiba getting some small residual of royalties from BRD movies from those or all studios are the most likely of scenarios at this point. I don't think Toshiba is going to want to carry this out for long and and I think Sony is definitely eyeing what most of us are talking about in this thread.

 

[Oni Jazar]

Now that the format war is over maybe Netflix can BUY SOME MORE DISCS SO ALL MY TITLES AREN'T IN "LONG WAIT" or "VERY LONG WAIT" or "LOL YOU THINK AFTER 3 MONTHS OF WAITING YOU'LL EVER GET RATATOUILLE?" status.

 

[Laurent]

both studios will announce coming to BRD during 1H09. That I WOULD make a ban bet on. The only collapse in history to outpace what will be HD-DVDs at this point is the Dreamcast.

What is... 1h09?

 

[borghe]

What is... 1h09?

first half of '09.

 

[plagiarize]

this logic is entirely baffling. it is a pressed on a non-compound media using a plastic shell. the only thing really more expensive at this point is the process which will eventually come down as quantities go up. saying BRD will never be as cheap to manufacture as DVDs is as silly as saying DVDs will never be as cheap to manufacture as CDs.

i said *cheaper*. not *as cheap*. it shouldn't be baffiling logic. blu-ray discs use more materials (scratch proof coating) and are made to a higher degree of precision in a process very similar to producing DVDs. they're the same type of media. blu-ray yields will never be better than DVD yields though they may one day reach parity, and the scratch resistant coating won't miraculously become free even if it's only a fraction of a cent.

I don't remember what the VHS was, but the DVD was $15.99. At that point it didn't really matter what the VHS was priced at. $15.99 is a major consumer price point. edit - for the record though, the VHS would have had to been above $9.99.. as VHS until right before it's actual death was never priced below $10 on new releases... *shakes his fist at George Lucas and Episode I*

sure it does when i'm saying that Blu-Ray needs to start taking off BEFORE it's about the same price as DVD. i've said nothing about major consumer price points.

DVD was cheaper simply because VHS still needed hundreds of feet of tape and the plastic shell. again, that whole minimum cost to manufacture. the best you could do to lower VHS' cost was to record EP (which some studios did) thus reducing the length of tape needed. Not even close here.

exactly. which is why studios were so keen to get away from DVD to VHS. manufacturing cost. why make people buy HD films if to do so you have to sell them for the same price as DVDs? what is in it for a studio to sell something even at a penny less profit?

Also, why do you insist BRD is being forced on anyone? I am simply stating that once costs come down to the point of being negligible ($199 players and $19.99-24.99 software) that J6P will be much more inclined to purchase. Couple that with a couple of major releases (Dark Knight and Indiana Jones) and it could be enough to shift the momentum from DVD to BRD.

i'm not saying it's forced on anyone. i'm saying that if the only way to make it sell is to price it the same as DVD that's forcing it into the market. of course someone will pick something that's better but the same price, but if they'll only start buying it at that point, it'd be pretty clear that the way it's 'better' isn't worth anything to them.

Consumers don't want it right now because players are $300 and when they walk into best buy, movies are $30-35.

sales will pick up as prices come down. i'm not arguing that at all. prices will come down. i'm not arguing that either. i'm just saying that if the only way to get sales to take off is to agressively get the price down to the same as DVD, then we have a problem.

which is why i'm saying we need to hope that that isn't the case.

clear?

again, why would a company that isn't invested in the format move away from DVD if Blu-Rays don't start selling well until they reach pricing parity with DVD?

 

[Laurent]

first half of '09.

You lazy bastard... ;oP

Nah, I think it's going to be earlier than that, 2008...

 

[Solo]

Im away from the internet for a few days and WB goes BRD exclusive! Thank god Im getting that PS3 in a few weeks.

I still love my 360 HD DVD addon and the discs I have so far, but it seems like it may soon be RIP HD DVD.

 

[borghe]

You lazy bastard... ;oP

Nah, I think it's going to be earlier than that, 2008...

doh, meant '08. my bad.

 

[Laurent]

doh, meant '08. my bad.

You are saying FIRST HALF OF 2008?! Now that's bold...

 

[VictimOfGrief]

When I first bought a DVD player in late 1999, two years after they were introduced, DVDs were still around the $30 retail price mark. The first DVD I ever bought, John Carpenter's The Thing, cost me $27 after tax. Anyone thinking new release movies on Blu Ray (or HD DVD, if it had become the premiere format) are going to be $15 day-and-date a year from now is in for a disappointment. There will be exceptions, as there were for DVD, but the majority of releases are going to sit at a high price point for quite some time.

Actually that's a mistake. New tech by in large is more expensive up front due to R&D cost and recouping them.

DVD eventually hit a price point where new movies where $12-15 bucks in the weekly ads and DVD players dropped in price.

I remember that point very vividly because there is a time where the HD Formats will have their golden era the same as DVD did.

Whether or not it's a year from now or two years from now... who knows. Depending on what Toshiba does with it's remaining partners, I can see HD DVD movies going for $10-15 bucks to liquidate their inventories.

 

[Shig]

To be fair, Matrix at $15.99 was a short-lived anomaly in 1999. It was only that price at one retailer for one week. $19.99-$22.99 was still by and large the default new release movie pricing for a while, sub-$20 debuts were few and far between.

 

[avaya]

Just saw the US PSN trailer for the Shakira Tour Blu-ray. Fuck.

Ordered.

5/5 PQ and 4/5 AQ from most HD reviewers.

I hope Sony-BMG and Universal Music Group continue to expand their concert Blu-ray offerings. HDTV and HD optical was made for this shit.

 

[borghe]

i said *cheaper*. not *as cheap*. it shouldn't be baffiling logic. blu-ray discs use more materials (scratch proof coating) and are made to a higher degree of precision in a process very similar to producing DVDs. they're the same type of media. blu-ray yields will never be better than DVD yields though they may one day reach parity, and the scratch resistant coating won't miraculously become free even if it's only a fraction of a cent.

picking nits aside, if it's $0.25 to manufacture a DVD and $0.55 to manufacture a BRD, when the studio is wholesaling both for $9.99 it doesn't matter. and if the studio is wholesaling the BRD for more than $9.99, then that's even MORE incentive for them to stop on DVD, especially considering big box retailers are going to get sick real fast of paying double shipping on essentially the same product twice. The major complaint about ths war has been double stocking essentially the same title. If costs on DVD and BRD are basically the same, then isn't that the exact same thing as this war?

sure it does when i'm saying that Blu-Ray needs to start taking off BEFORE it's about the same price as VHS. i've said nothing about major consumer price points.

but they're all that matter here. J6P won't move over because of features or benefits. It's all about price. Simple consumerism at work.

exactly. which is why studios were so keen to get away from DVD to VHS. manufacturing cost. why make people buy HD films if to do so you have to sell them for the same price as DVDs? what is in it for a studio to sell something even at a penny less profit?

lol... umm... atrohpy of the home video market compared to strengthening of the pay tv and rental markets are what drove them to DVD, not because discs were $0.75 cheaper to manufacture than tapes. as for what's in it for the studio to sell it a a penny less profit? How about DVD sales lowering for 2 or 3 years in a row?

i'm not saying it's forced on anyone. i'm saying that if the only way to make it sell is to price it the same as DVD that's forcing it into the market. of course someone will pick something that's better but the same price, but if they'll only start buying it at that point, it'd be pretty clear that the way it's 'better' isn't worth anything to them.


sales will pick up as prices come down. i'm not arguing that at all. prices will come down. i'm not arguing that either. i'm just saying that if the only way to get sales to take off is to agressively get the price down to the same as DVD, then we have a problem.

eh.. I'm pretty much done arguing with you until you can show me at least two technologies that have ever outpaced the preceding technology wile remaining at a significantly higher price point than it.

if you on the other hand are just arguing that BRD will never replace DVD, well then again we are done. it's all opinions and predictions at this point. I will end it though with the fact that at some point BRDs will be comparable in manufacturing costs to DVDs. at that point at least studios will work to phase out DVD in favor of BRD. If BRD will ever phase out DVD as the dominant way we watch our movies (compared to DD, IPTV, etc) who knows. But at some point and time, likely within the next three years s pacing holds, BRD sales will beat DVD sales.