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Hi-Def Media Lovefest: The war is over and we can all go home.

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borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
Laurent said:
You are saying FIRST HALF OF 2008?! Now that's bold...
but I'm still that confident in it.

Shig said:
To be fair, Matrix at $15.99 was a short-lived anomaly in 1999. It was only that price at one retailer for one week. $19.99-$22.99 was still by and large the default new release movie pricing for a while, sub-$20 debuts were few and far between.
by the time the matrix hit, sub-$20 releases at best buy week of were commonplace. but yes you are right, it was always just the week of and then they went back above $20. catalogs usually launched at $19.99 or less though.

Still all of these scenarios are still better than what we have right now, and that was my only point.
 

KINGMOKU

Member
Well. I am fully loaded now, so I cant bitch anymore.

Now the question becomes, is there any advantage to either format in terms of visuals?

Should I get certain movies in HDDVD format, instead of bluray, and viceversa? I dont have any kind of audio setup, so it means little to me.(I cant take anymore cords. I will have a siezure)
 

avaya

Member
moku said:
Well. I am fully loaded now, so I cant bitch anymore.

Now the question becomes, is there any advantage to either format in terms of visuals?

Should I get certain movies in HDDVD format, instead of bluray, and viceversa? I dont have any kind of audio setup, so it means little to me.(I cant take anymore cords. I will have a siezure)

No.

Only reason to get certain movies and HD-DVD now vs. Blu-ray is dependent on PiP/interactivity features since BD-Live 1.1 releases only start coming this year.
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
no, in almost all instances (I want to say all but there is probably one release out there to make a fool of me), the BRD and HD-DVD versions in the same country use identical video encodes (as in literally the same encoded file).
 
moku said:
Well. I am fully loaded now, so I cant bitch anymore.

Now the question becomes, is there any advantage to either format in terms of visuals?

Should I get certain movies in HDDVD format, instead of bluray, and viceversa? I dont have any kind of audio setup, so it means little to me.(I cant take anymore cords. I will have a siezure)

It shouldn't matter much to you. Only considerations:

HD-DVD movies sometimes have interactive extras that the Blu-rays lack, and it's looking like HD-DVD won't be around for a lot longer anyway.
 

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
plagiarize said:
if Blu-Ray has to reach the same price as DVD to take off, then it tells you that the average consumer doesn't care about HD. then, given that DVD will still have higher profit margins, why would companies releasing disks make the switch to Blu-Ray and phase out DVD?
In my absence borghe has already covered a variety things I might say here. LTTP, I guess.

DVD in it's time didn't sell the majority on features alone, no different from HD IQ isn't going to sell the majority alone either. Pricing, library size will be the more prominent factors that get people to switch. I'm sure DVD and HDM will coexist for years to come, but I don't see that being any particular barrier to HDM acceptance any moreso than it was for DVD against VHS.
 

Days like these...

Have a Blessed Day
jeremy_ricci said:

Nice counter argument.

I agree with jeff and was going to post something similar. Also I'm not sure I buy Warner's claim that the dual formats were also putting people off from buying SD DVDs. So J6P was holding off on buying a new release for their dvd player to buy it at some undetermined point in the future for whatever format won? Yeah, not really buying that.
 

mrklaw

MrArseFace
maybe not j6p, but its not unreasonable that some later adopters may have been slowing their purchases of dvd in preparation of buying a hd player, but were then postponing that purchase due to the uncertainty of two formats
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
Days like these... said:
Nice counter argument.

I agree with jeff and was going to post something similar. Also I'm not sure I buy Warner's claim that the dual formats were also putting people off from buying SD DVDs. So J6P was holding off on buying a new release for their dvd player to buy it at some undetermined point in the future for whatever format won? Yeah, not really buying that.
I don't know if I entirely buy it about J6P either, but to be completely honest that is part of what drove my DVD buying down since 2006.. not the two formats but a chain reaction of 1) not wanting to buy a DVD just to move to a superior format within the next year or so, 2) not knowing which format to go with and not having enough bread to go universal, and 3) wanting to know that if/when I did go to HDM, it wouldn't fail as miserably as the HDA formats did as a result of THEIR war. So while maybe not entirely true for J6P, there was definitely a group of consumers this was true for.

edit - for real world comparison, I have bought more HD movies since I bought my players at the end of october to now than I bought on DVD for all of 2006 AND 2007. My wife and I were just laughing about that the other day. You can probably count our DVD purchases since the end of 2005 on two hands. In the past 2.5 months we've bought around 20 HDMs.
 
Days like these... said:
Nice counter argument.

I agree with jeff and was going to post something similar. Also I'm not sure I buy Warner's claim that the dual formats were also putting people off from buying SD DVDs. So J6P was holding off on buying a new release for their dvd player to buy it at some undetermined point in the future for whatever format won? Yeah, not really buying that.


Why would someone buy something like Resident Evil 3 if they know that somewhere in the next 6 months they will be buying an hd format of some sort and buying it all over again?
They will rent and wait.
It is not some foriegn concept except those who are trying to find ways to cope.
 
borghe said:
edit - for real world comparison, I have bought more HD movies since I bought my players at the end of october to now than I bought on DVD for all of 2006 AND 2007. My wife and I were just laughing about that the other day. You can probably count our DVD purchases since the end of 2005 on two hands. In the past 2.5 months we've bought around 20 HDMs.

Ditto. Not because HD media was coming, but I had really slacked off on new DVD purchases. HD has gotten me buying again, big-time

I remember reading somewhere-- about game systems, I think-- that most purchases happen within 6 months of the console sale. Likewise, I imagine more people buy more DVDs when the player is new to them-- and there aren't so many of those people anymore. So I think the the format war didn't depress DVD sales, but it being over will certainly increase media sales, as people have a shiny new thing to put shiny new things into.
 
Days like these... said:
Nice counter argument.

I agree with jeff and was going to post something similar. Also I'm not sure I buy Warner's claim that the dual formats were also putting people off from buying SD DVDs. So J6P was holding off on buying a new release for their dvd player to buy it at some undetermined point in the future for whatever format won? Yeah, not really buying that.


You can buy it or not but it held true for me. I wasn't playing the shitty format war game, but I sure wasn't buying current releases on DVD until the war was done either. I'm certainly not the only one.
 

kaching

"GAF's biggest wanker"
Days like these... said:
I agree with jeff and was going to post something similar. Also I'm not sure I buy Warner's claim that the dual formats were also putting people off from buying SD DVDs. So J6P was holding off on buying a new release for their dvd player to buy it at some undetermined point in the future for whatever format won? Yeah, not really buying that.
The only people saying anything about "J6P" are forum posters who regularly try to use this arbitrary demographic as a crutch for weak arguments. The Warner exec said they were simply seeing fewer people buying either SD or HD discs than they would like, without assigning an arbitrary demographic label to the non-buyers. You're welcome to challenge the corollation he draws between depressed SD sales and HD format confusion but I suspect he has access to better market data than you do.
 

Panajev2001a

GAF's Pleasant Genius
kaching said:
In my absence borghe has already covered a variety things I might say here. LTTP, I guess.

DVD in it's time didn't sell the majority on features alone, no different from HD IQ isn't going to sell the majority alone either. Pricing, library size will be the more prominent factors that get people to switch. I'm sure DVD and HDM will coexist for years to come, but I don't see that being any particular barrier to HDM acceptance any moreso than it was for DVD against VHS.

Also, in many countries VHS are still quite healthy/present in stores (I am talking about big EU countries here).
 

Luckyman

Banned
LAS VEGAS, Jan. 7 /PRNewswire/ -- At the 2008 Consumer Electronics Show in
Las Vegas, the companies of the HD DVD Promotional Group recapped a
breakthrough year for the high definition format, reaching nearly one million
dedicated HD DVD players sold in North America and delivering on the promise
of affordability, quality and a consistent experience on every machine. With
a leading install base of dedicated players, there are now more than 400
titles available in the US and more than 1,000 titles available worldwide.
During the key five week holiday selling period, HD DVD software sales grew at
nearly twice the rate of Blu-ray
, which was consistent with increased player
growth.
"Our focus from day one has been to deliver the highest quality hardware
and the best, most immersive home entertainment experiences for consumers at
affordable prices," said Jodi Sally, vice president of marketing, Toshiba's
Digital A/V Group. "With nearly one million dedicated players in the market
in North America, and a leading position in the PC market worldwide, we're
seeing software growth follow suit."
As the industry looks for a format that can break into the mainstream
consumer market, HD DVD continues to be the affordable, high quality leader,
setting the bar for a positive consumer experience. Through a combination of
quality and price, HD DVD meets the essential requirements for any format to
successfully reach the mass market.
Strong Hardware and Title Growth
In 2007, HD DVD reached a broader group of consumers than ever before,
showing strong movie title sales and high attach rates stemming from the major
influx of dedicated HD DVD players on the market. Based on Nielsen data, when
comparing first week consumer sales, "The Bourne Ultimatum" on HD DVD outsold
"Spiderman 3" on Blu-ray.
Among all high definition formats, HD DVD still
maintains the highest attach rates -- more than twice the rate of Blu-ray.
"The HD DVD camp has always stuck to a simple set of principles," said Ken
Graffeo, executive vice president of HD strategic marketing for Universal
Studios Home Entertainment
, and co-president of the HD DVD Promotional Group.
"Give consumers who buy into HD DVD what they paid for. In fact, give them
more than they expected. Show them that quality and value go hand in hand
with HD DVD. Show them what advanced interactivity really means and how it
can enrich your favorite movies that you watch over and over."
To this point, Toshiba's HD DVD players received several Editor's Choice
and Product of the Year awards from respected media outlets, including Sound &
Vision, Electronic House, E-Gear, and Ultimate AV.
On the PC front, the HD DVD Promotional Group announced that by the end of
2007, HD DVD-enabled PCs represented more than 80% of all high
definition-capable PCs. The HD DVD companies expect notebook PCs in particular
to be the variable that helps keep quality high, but prices low, by driving
down manufacturing costs for drives across all HD DVD players.
Global Studio Support
A critical milestone for HD DVD in helping to drive strong sales across
the board was the strong support from Hollywood studios and global content
providers. In 2007, HD DVD went from being supported by 41 studios and
distributors worldwide to 65.
Groundbreaking Interactive Features
Using Microsoft's HDi technology, HD DVD led the way in 2007 with
never-before-seen interactive experiences that have changed how consumers
interact with their favorite movies. HD DVD was the first to offer true
picture in picture director's commentary in 2007 with Warner's "300". This
feature was not included in the Blu-ray version, and showcases a key HD DVD
feature that caters directly to the fan community. Universal's "Heroes" and
Paramount's "Transformers" also included picture in picture features than
enhance the experience for fans.
HD DVD was also the first to deliver web-connected content, offering bonus
material on titles such as "The Bourne Ultimatum," "Heroes: Season 1," and
"Transformers" -- all offering downloadable content that's continually updated
so fans of the movie can return for new features. The interactive elements
are all designed to promote an enhanced "second look" environment and to rally
the fan communities around key titles. In addition, Universal launched
U-Shop, an extension of the U-Control feature, letting you buy items related
to a movie directly through the guaranteed internet connection on every HD DVD
player. Universal's "Evan Almighty" was the first title to showcase this,
illustrating what can be done when every player on the market can access these
features.
As the official successor to DVD, HD DVD has added to the heritage of the
most successful consumer electronics format ever, bringing the highest quality
HD experiences to consumers at the most affordable prices. The HD DVD Booth
at CES 2008 is located in South Hall 1 (booth #21266).
About HD DVD
HD DVD is the next generation, post-DVD standard for high capacity, high
definition optical discs, approved by the DVD Forum. The DVD Forum develops
and defines DVD formats. Its more than 200 strong membership brings together
leaders in movies and entertainment, computing, consumer electronics and
software. HD DVD is fast becoming the primary visual medium for the age of
high-definition TV. The North American HD DVD Promotional Group, Inc. is an
organization established to promote the HD DVD format and educate consumers in
North America. For more information and a complete listing of HD DVD launch
titles please visit www.TheLookAndSoundOfPerfect.com.
SOURCE North American HD DVD Promotional Group, Inc.

Spin like never before. Universal still hardcore with HD-DVD. :D
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
Luckyman said:
Spin like never before. Universal still hardcore with HD-DVD. :D
Universal still has to sell movies, and with the blow Warner dealt, they need as much spin as possible to get those movies into customers' hands until either a) their contract is up with HD-DVD, b) HD-DVD let's them out of commitments, or c) BDA buys out their exclusive contract.

Can't really fault them for that.

krypt0nian said:
You can buy it or not but it held true for me. I wasn't playing the shitty format war game, but I sure wasn't buying current releases on DVD until the war was done either. I'm certainly not the only one.
I think there are a number of not-as-early adopters like us who fall under this. And I don't know about you guys, but when I was buying DVDs... I mean during 2004 and probably 2005 we are talking anywhere from 5-10 a month. I would not be surprised if people like us, while not great in number, did have a dramatic effect on DVD sales overall when we stopped buying.
 

RaidenZR

Member
Universal's stance is pissing me off. If there was a time to be handed a 'pass' to make your transition, this is the time window in which the industry would turn a blind eye. Now, 6 months down the line when they'll be forced over to BRD, they'll have to tuck tail and make some more elaborate PR packet.

Now they're as stubborn as HDM consumers.
 

Days like these...

Have a Blessed Day
OokieSpookie said:
Why would someone buy something like Resident Evil 3 if they know that somewhere in the next 6 months they will be buying an hd format of some sort and buying it all over again?
They will rent and wait.
It is not some foriegn concept except those who are trying to find ways to cope.

I'm trying to cope? You are so right! Please help me covert I want to be totally consumed by blu-ray. I want to eat, sleep, breathe and live blu-ray just like you ookie.

All I'm saying is I dont believe that your avg. Walmart shopper was putting off buying a new release on dvd to buy it at some undetermined point in the future for whatever format won.

Ignatz I'm not angling for anything I see you still have your hate-on for me I'm flattered.
 
They'll just sacrifice Gaffeo when they need to make the switch.

Let's look at their PR:

- "dedicated" statistics: check
- relative %-age increase distortion: check (Sony's favorite tactic on the gaming side, btw)
- overemphasis on marginal features: check
- pumped up studio numbers: check ("global" :lol)
- skewed comparison of titles (Bourne vs Spidey): check (I'll take a guess this doesn't include the SM 3-pack, and the pack-in obviously cuts sales a little as well)


In response:
- 52:1
- Blu standalones nearly closing the gap, active PS3 users stomping on it entirely, *despite* price gap
- significant majority of major studios (as opposed to "global" studios


edit: Days, keep fighting the good fight!
 

avaya

Member
Ignatz Mouse said:
They'll just sacrifice Gaffeo when they need to make the switch.

Let's look at their PR:

- "dedicated" statistics: check
- relative %-age increase distortion: check (Sony's favorite tactic on the gaming side, btw)
- overemphasis on marginal features: check
- pumped up studio numbers: check ("global" :lol)
- skewed comparison of titles (Bourne vs Spidey): check (I'll take a guess this doesn't include the SM 3-pack, and the pack-in obviously cuts sales a little as well)


In response:
- 52:1
- Blu standalones nearly closing the gap, active PS3 users stomping on it entirely, *despite* price gap
- significant majority of major studios (as opposed to "global" studios


edit: Days, keep fighting the good fight!

52:0
Blu standalones closed and surpassed the gap
 

Luckyman

Banned
27330_ces5_08_122_346lo.jpg
 
S

Shepherd

Unconfirmed Member
Just ordered The Fifth Element (Remastered) and UnderWorld on Blu-Ray. I hope my A3 sells on Ebay.
 
kaching said:
You're still putting words in the Warner exec's mouth.

He's building the case that WB is lying, and therefore influenced by something other than market decicsions. Just like he did when Paramount went exclusi.... oh wait.
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
Luckyman said:
pic of PS3 touting BD-Live
Like that was at all unexpected :p

Bill Hunt is now insisting that the BDA is looking at offering "crossover" incentives to existing HD-DVD users. I've been saying for a while now that once the war was decided, we can expect to see BOGO deals become drastically scarce. How much do you want to bet that the BDA will use the marketing money used to fund the BOGO deals to instead bring over HD-DVD users? Though I'd rather see them use the money to settle with HD-DVD on Paramount and Universal.
 

Vic

Please help me with my bad english
Laurent said:
The phase out of DVD won't be happening before minimum 5 years IMO, so we will live with both formats until then, just like we did with DVD / VHS...
The DVD format is not going anywhere. It's the main and only movie medium. Only enthusiasts knows about the HD formats.
 
The tactic of offering incentives to HD-DVD owners would be a very smart thing to do.

It would be rather stupid to ignore almost 1 million HD enthusiasts.

Is 5pm Eastern or Pacific?
 

avaya

Member
Opus Angelorum said:
The tactic of offering incentives to HD-DVD owners would be a very smart thing to do.

It would be rather stupid to ignore almost 1 million HD enthusiasts.

Is 5pm Eastern or Pacific?

PST.
 

borghe

Loves the Greater Toronto Area
Opus Angelorum said:
It would be rather stupid to ignore almost 1 million HD enthusiasts.
not only stupid, but there obviously have to be a lot of HD-DVD-only users out there who are feeling screwed by this. It is definitely in Sony's best interest to make them feel better about this turn of events. And as bill hunt suggested, if they made it a cutoff (say 12/1/07) there are only a finite amount of consumers they have to appease. you can add up the dollars and cents on something like that from the get go.

I am still hoping some money is paid out to get Paramount and Universal over. Unfortunately the inconvenience of all of this isn't over until all studios are releasing on one format. But it probably is a good idea to make sure the 1M users out there simply feel a bit inconvenienced by HDMedia vs entirely screwed and left out in the cold by it.
 

terrene

Banned
avaya said:
No.

Only reason to get certain movies and HD-DVD now vs. Blu-ray is dependent on PiP/interactivity features since BD-Live 1.1 releases only start coming this year.
One other thing is that BRD has a much thicker lacquer to keep it from getting scratched, which is actually pretty smart since the density of those discs is so much higher.
 
Do you guys think they're still going to honor that 5 Free HD DVDs mail-in deal I keep forgetting to mail in?

I'd go for a "Mail in your HD DVD offer and we'll give you 5 free Blu Rays so you're not quite so buttstung by all this" type deal.
 
borghe said:
not only stupid, but there obviously have to be a lot of HD-DVD-only users out there who are feeling screwed by this.

I suppose you are right, but man that is just silly. If you choose to be an early adopter during a format war, you take your chances and really have no right to complain.
 

bill0527

Member
borghe said:
not only stupid, but there obviously have to be a lot of HD-DVD-only users out there who are feeling screwed by this. It is definitely in Sony's best interest to make them feel better about this turn of events.

I'm still waiting for someone to make me feel better about 8-track, Betamax, Laserdisc, Digital Audio Tape, and Mini Disc, just to name a few.

I'm not holding my breath.
 
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