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Hi-Def Media Lovefest: The war is over and we can all go home.

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B

bill0527

Member
jeremy_ricci said:
Pretty sure in Japan that Blu-Ray was dominating something like 80-20? I can't imagine EU regions were any different.

Also, Gates has his pipe dream for DD, but he'll be squandered long before he can get started. Cable services will crush his dreams for coming into DD, and his investment into HD DVD will be for nothing.
Click to expand...

His investment into HD-DVD did its job. It was only to try and block Blu-Ray as long as possible while he got a DD service up and running and got a ton of content providers on-board with the service. This was the only reason he was ever interested in HD-DVD.
 
L

Lord Error

Insane For Sony
dallow_bg said:
What is the briefcase made of in the Bladerunner set?

Actual metal or plastic?
Click to expand...
Plastic, but the contents inside are nice. The hard-acrilyte/plastic enclosed lenticular and the production artworks are great looking.
 
B

border

Member
bill0527 said:
His investment into HD-DVD did its job. It was only to try and block Blu-Ray as long as possible while he got a DD service up and running and got a ton of content providers on-board with the service. This was the only reason he was ever interested in HD-DVD.
Click to expand...
I doubt this was really their plan for HD-DVD, to have it dead in the water after a year. Otherwise they wouldn't have paid off Paramount 3-4 months ago. If that was their plan, that certainly was a lot of time, effort, and money just to get an Xbox Live video rental service up and running. You'd think they could have done it without HD-DVD (which only really compromised XBLM's relevance).
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
border said:
I doubt this was really their plan for HD-DVD, to have it dead in the water after a year. Otherwise they wouldn't have paid off Paramount 3-4 months ago. If that was their plan, that certainly was a lot of time, effort, and money just to get an Xbox Live video rental service up and running. You'd think they could have done it without HD-DVD (which only really compromised XBLM's relevance).
Click to expand...

1. HD DVD has been in the market since April 2006

2. MS didn't pay Paramount. Rumors were that they made an offer to Warner.
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
border said:
I doubt this was really their plan for HD-DVD, to have it dead in the water after a year. Otherwise they wouldn't have paid off Paramount 3-4 months ago. If that was their plan, that certainly was a lot of time, effort, and money just to get an Xbox Live video rental service up and running. You'd think they could have done it without HD-DVD (which only really compromised XBLM's relevance).
Click to expand...

Considering they had the XBLM up and running before around the same time PS3 came out (i.e. the earliest BRD would have started to 'take off' I concur that this was never their inention. Although the crazy support XBLM has gotten from studios should also show you their preference. As shown by Disney and Fox with DIVX support, they want you to rent the movie from them, not buy it.

Although, MS' investment into HDDVD is pretty small. Amir once said the entire budget for the department was a fraction of the Paramount payoff. VC1 and HDi development probably arent counted towards that, but VC1 can still be profitable on BRD, and I'm sure MS has other plans for HDi/
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
Ok, for djk or onix or one of the other audio guys in this thread:

I'm kinda wondering what my next move should be in terms of audio. Should I upgrade my receiver (the Onkyo 605) or my speakers first? I have some basic speakers that came with an RCA receiver I bought. I'm looking to buy either the Polk RM6750 or the Onkyo SKS-HT240.

I'm not an audiophile, so I don't want to spend more than $350 or so on speakers and not more than $400 on a new receiver, but I don't know which I should look for first. I was also thinking of just upgrading the speakers and getting a BR player with analog outs, but there isn't a lot of feedback on that since so many people just use HDMI.
 
M

maharg

idspispopd
border said:
I doubt this was really their plan for HD-DVD, to have it dead in the water after a year. Otherwise they wouldn't have paid off Paramount 3-4 months ago. If that was their plan, that certainly was a lot of time, effort, and money just to get an Xbox Live video rental service up and running. You'd think they could have done it without HD-DVD (which only really compromised XBLM's relevance).
Click to expand...

My opinion is that MS is just playing all sides. Their 'backing' of HD-DVD comes more from the willingness to use their tech than from any concept of throwing the market for a loop -- after all, if they wanted to do that, the x360 would have an hddvd drive and it'd *still* be a stalemate.

If they could have their stuff in BR, they probably would (and half of what they contributed to HD is in BR now). Playing all sides is the only path that actually makes sense for MS. And it's the kind of path they've always taken. No matter who wins or loses in the market, they still win.
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
VanMardigan said:
Ok, for djk or onix or one of the other audio guys in this thread:

I'm kinda wondering what my next move should be in terms of audio. Should I upgrade my receiver (the Onkyo 605) or my speakers first? I have some basic speakers that came with an RCA receiver I bought. I'm looking to buy either the Polk RM6750 or the Onkyo SKS-HT240.

I'm not an audiophile, so I don't want to spend more than $350 or so on speakers and not more than $400 on a new receiver, but I don't know which I should look for first. I was also thinking of just upgrading the speakers and getting a BR player with analog outs, but there isn't a lot of feedback on that since so many people just use HDMI.
Click to expand...

Analog outs can be bad, your reciever probably doesnt touch that signal, so any set up you do (speaker level, distance calibration) would be up to the BRD player, which will in all likelyhood not do that stuff at all, or do it poorly if it does. Just upgrade the reciever.

For that price point, I would just keep your cheapy speakers, they cant be much worse than what you can get in that price range.
 
S

StoOgE

First tragedy, then farce.
maharg said:
My opinion is that MS is just playing all sides. Their 'backing' of HD-DVD comes more from the willingness to use their tech than from any concept of throwing the market for a loop -- after all, if they wanted to do that, the x360 would have an hddvd drive and it'd *still* be a stalemate.

If they could have their stuff in BR, they probably would (and half of what they contributed to HD is in BR now). Playing all sides is the only path that actually makes sense for MS. And it's the kind of path they've always taken. No matter who wins or loses in the market, they still win.
Click to expand...

exactly, WB and Universal will probably use VC1 encodes for the time being at least. even on BRD.
 
T

theBishop

Banned
maharg said:
My opinion is that MS is just playing all sides. Their 'backing' of HD-DVD comes more from the willingness to use their tech than from any concept of throwing the market for a loop -- after all, if they wanted to do that, the x360 would have an hddvd drive and it'd *still* be a stalemate.

If they could have their stuff in BR, they probably would (and half of what they contributed to HD is in BR now). Playing all sides is the only path that actually makes sense for MS. And it's the kind of path they've always taken. No matter who wins or loses in the market, they still win.
Click to expand...

Microsoft may look at Blu-Ray as a strategic threat for its use of Java.
 
B

border

Member
Also something of an important question for the conspiracy theorists -- if Microsoft is so interested in digital downloads, why do they have virtually no presence there on the PC? I guess you could argue that Zune Marketplace is that presence, but they've pretty much shot themselves in the foot by at least making it appear that you need a Zune to get any use out of the place. Do they even sell videos on Zune Marketplace?
 
C

Crisco

Banned
The general rule of thumb for audio is 1/4-1/3 of your money on electronics and 2/3-3/4 on speakers. Some even lean heavier than that into speakers. The Onkyo 605 is a great entry level receiver and will serve you well through many speaker upgrades. If you only have so much money to spend, and are looking to upgrade speakers, then go out and get the best center channel you can afford. After that, subwoofer. Then just go from there.
 
J

jjasper

Member
border said:
Also something of an important question for the conspiracy theorists -- if Microsoft is so interested in digital downloads, why do they have virtually no presence there on the PC? I guess you could argue that Zune Marketplace is that presence, but they've pretty much shot themselves in the foot by at least making it appear that you need a Zune to get any use out of the place. Do they even sell videos on Zune Marketplace?
Click to expand...

I am pretty sure that will be the next step for the XBLVM. PC w/ media center
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
StoOgE said:
For that price point, I would just keep your cheapy speakers, they cant be much worse than what you can get in that price range.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the help. So either the Polk RM6750 or the Onkyo SKS-HT240 speakers are basically the equivalent of HTiB speaker sets?


Do they even sell videos on Zune Marketplace?
Click to expand...

yes

If you only have so much money to spend, and are looking to upgrade speakers, then go out and get the best center channel you can afford. After that, subwoofer. Then just go from there.
Click to expand...

I was trying to avoid that approach and preferred to just buy one set. But would you suggest going piece by piece?
 
B

Beer Monkey

Member
Crisco said:
The general rule of thumb for audio is 1/4-1/3 of your money on electronics and 2/3-3/4 on speakers. Some even lean heavier than that into speakers. The Onkyo 605 is a great entry level receiver and will serve you well through many speaker upgrades. If you only have so much money to spend, and are looking to upgrade speakers, then go out and get the best center channel you can afford. After that, subwoofer. Then just go from there.
Click to expand...

There's so many philosophies about this stuff that it isn't funny. Personally, I recommend that at least the three front speakers be identical if at all possible. I would never mix and match a center. At a minimum the center should have the same tweeter as the L/R.
 
D

DarkJediKnight

Member
VanMardigan said:
Ok, for djk or onix or one of the other audio guys in this thread:

I'm kinda wondering what my next move should be in terms of audio. Should I upgrade my receiver (the Onkyo 605) or my speakers first? I have some basic speakers that came with an RCA receiver I bought. I'm looking to buy either the Polk RM6750 or the Onkyo SKS-HT240.

I'm not an audiophile, so I don't want to spend more than $350 or so on speakers and not more than $400 on a new receiver, but I don't know which I should look for first. I was also thinking of just upgrading the speakers and getting a BR player with analog outs, but there isn't a lot of feedback on that since so many people just use HDMI.
Click to expand...

Always keep this in mind: Speakers are more important than receivers. You can connect a crappy receiver to amazing speakers and it will still sound good. You connect a $2000 receiver or pre-pro to a $200 speakers set and it sounds like crap.

Your receiver is fine. You are future-proof for the time being. At your asking price, I really don't know what to recommend. Perhaps the Athena Micra set. There's also a well endorsed Klipsch set (can't remember the name) that I've seen people recommend. But I really wouldn't know. I would recommend reading up reviews of small HT surround packages and make a decision based on that. Or best if you can hear it yourself.
 
O

OokieSpookie

Banned
border said:
Also something of an important question for the conspiracy theorists -- if Microsoft is so interested in digital downloads, why do they have virtually no presence there on the PC? I guess you could argue that Zune Marketplace is that presence, but they've pretty much shot themselves in the foot by at least making it appear that you need a Zune to get any use out of the place. Do they even sell videos on Zune Marketplace?
Click to expand...

When they get the kinks out of Windows Live they will be available no differently than they are on 360.
That is the plan, there are just more issues in bringing it to pc ( mainly pirating ) which is why you see them pushing their new video streaming format lately (sliver something or other)
 
C

Crisco

Banned
But would you suggest going piece by piece?
Click to expand...

Yes, 3 great speakers in front is a helluva better than 5-7 shitty ones. I agree that your three fronts should be from the same manufacturer/product line, but if you can't afford three right now, just get the center if you're watching movies. Something like 90% of most movie soundtracks is on the center channel.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
DarkJediKnight said:
Your receiver is fine. You are future-proof for the time being.
Click to expand...

My bad, I made it sound like I had the Onkyo 605. I don't. I have an RCA unit that doesn't do HDMI.

Now would you recommend that I upgrade to the Onkyo or that I spend money on speakers? Also, if you guys recommend that I purchase the speakers separately, could you recommend a set of center and front channel speakers at a good price? Or perhaps a sub?
 
D

dallow_bg

nods at old men
Spend everything you can on quality speakers.

Entry level Maggies (Magnepan) MMG L+R speakers for $500 will kick your current speakers in the rear, and do as well as $1000 speakers.

http://www.magnepan.com/

I love maggies.
You need a sub with them though.
 
D

DarkJediKnight

Member
Crisco said:
Yes, 3 great speakers in front is a helluva better than 5-7 shitty ones. I agree that your three fronts should be from the same manufacturer/product line, but if you can't afford three right now, just get the center if you're watching movies. Something like 90% of most movie soundtracks is on the center channel.
Click to expand...

Whoa! WHAT!!!? No! The center channel on movie soundtracks contains dialogue and assists in pans from left to right. Its job is to creat a seamless front soundstage with the left and right. The MOST important part of any speaker system are the TWO front speakers. They do the bulk of the work. Then the subwoofer. Center, then surrounds.

My advice always is to aim for a 2.1 system and then add the rest. This is because if you sit down the center of the 2 speakers, they will create a convincing "phantom" center. And a sub is a must for movies, unless your speakers extend really low in terms of bass.
 
C

Crisco

Banned
Now would you recommend that I upgrade to the Onkyo or that I spend money on speakers? Also, if you guys recommend that I purchase the speakers separately, could you recommend a set of center and front channel speakers at a good price? Or perhaps a sub?
Click to expand...

http://www.av123.com/

They have a pretty good line of entry level bookshelves with matching center.

http://www.hsuresearch.com/

HSU also has some nice bookshelves and awesome entry level subwoofers.

That's just a couple suggestions. There are so many internet direct dealers out there, and almost all of them will offer better deals than buying stuff from big box stores or specialized home theater stores. If you do your research, you can't go wrong.

Whoa! WHAT!!!? No! The center channel on movie soundtracks contains dialogue and assists in pans from left to right. Its job is to creat a seamless front soundstage with the left and right. The MOST important part of any speaker system are the TWO front speakers. They do the bulk of the work. Then the subwoofer. Center, then surrounds.
Click to expand...

Really? I guess if you plan on using it for music too, then a L/R is necessary. In any case, I'm not advocating disconnecting his L/R speakers and just going with a center, just that the center should the first point of upgrade.
 
D

DarkJediKnight

Member
Crisco said:
Really? I guess if you plan on using it for music too, then a L/R is necessary. In any case, I'm not advocating disconnecting his L/R speakers and just going with a center, just that the center should the first point of upgrade.
Click to expand...

It makes no sense to upgrade his center. It won't help him one bit other than maybe more clear dialogue in movies. In fact, timbre matching (where the sound properties of the speaker blends with the others) is a concern. It looks like he will replace the entire speaker set anyway.

The HSU Performance 2 set you linked to looks good. I really don't know how good the speakers are, but the Sub is nice. And if the speakers are decent, I'd recommend that for Van.

Good God, this brings me back to the times a few years ago when I was looking for a $400 speaker package. Now, I'm close to $10,000. Dangerous hobby this is.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
VanMardigan said:
Ok, for djk or onix or one of the other audio guys in this thread:

I'm kinda wondering what my next move should be in terms of audio. Should I upgrade my receiver (the Onkyo 605) or my speakers first? I have some basic speakers that came with an RCA receiver I bought. I'm looking to buy either the Polk RM6750 or the Onkyo SKS-HT240.
Click to expand...

Speakers first ... always (unless your electronics are literally terrible - which yours aren't). Its effectively the most important aspect to getting good sound quality, so you'll get the most immediate improvement. You'll be surprised how nice good old DD and DTS can actually sound.

If you want some speaker suggestions ... post a thread with your price-range. Should get some good suggestions. Probably shouldn't tangent this thread too much.

I'm not an audiophile, so I don't want to spend more than $350 or so on speakers and not more than $400 on a new receiver, but I don't know which I should look for first. I was also thinking of just upgrading the speakers and getting a BR player with analog outs, but there isn't a lot of feedback on that since so many people just use HDMI.
Click to expand...

When you say $350, do you mean for a pair ... or all the way around? If you mean surround, your pricing allocation doesn't make much sense. $400 on a recevier ... and less for 5 speakers? That isn't a ratio that leads to the best bang-for-your-buck imo.
 
T

twinturbo2

butthurt Heat fan
dallow_bg said:
wut?
Click to expand...
I was planning on buying one eventually for Tekken 6 and to catch up on PS2 titles I missed (I'll be buying a used 60GB model.), but if Blu-ray will win the HD Warz, might as well take the splurge now...
 
B

bill0527

Member
border said:
Also something of an important question for the conspiracy theorists -- if Microsoft is so interested in digital downloads, why do they have virtually no presence there on the PC? I guess you could argue that Zune Marketplace is that presence, but they've pretty much shot themselves in the foot by at least making it appear that you need a Zune to get any use out of the place. Do they even sell videos on Zune Marketplace?
Click to expand...

People enjoy watching movies in front of their television. The average family doesn't really want to pack 6 people in a room hunched around a 22" monitor. Microsoft's goal has been to get into the living room and that's why a DD service on Live has been their main focus.
 
B

border

Member
PC World and Engadget are simply parroting the article from yesterday's Daily Variety, where they confirmed that Universal's exclusivity contract with HD-DVD has lapsed. There are no announcements from Universal but it's a pretty good bet they won't be renewing :lol

bill0527 said:
Microsoft's goal has been to get into the living room and that's why a DD service on Live has been their main focus.
Click to expand...
Then maybe they should have invested all that HD-DVD money into putting a larger hard drive on the 360, because the one that's there now is woefully inadequate for HD film distribution.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
I won't bother this thread anymore, but if I'm looking to upgrade the two front speakers, what is the term that's used to describe those? Bookshelf?
 
C

Crisco

Banned
It makes no sense to upgrade his center. It won't help him one bit other than maybe more clear dialogue in movies. In fact, timbre matching (where the sound properties of the speaker blends with the others) is a concern. It looks like he will replace the entire speaker set anyway.
Click to expand...

I don't really want to argue this point with you much, but I do think your underestimating the value of the center. A lot of sound effects originate from the center channel as well, not just dialogue. Stuff like explosions, gunshots, really anything that is happening right in front of you on the screen is going to come from the center.

I won't bother this thread anymore, but if I'm looking to upgrade the two front speakers, what is the term that's used to describe those? Bookshelf?
Click to expand...

Yes, in your price range, you're definitely looking for bookshelf speakers.
 
D

dallow_bg

nods at old men
VanMardigan said:
I won't bother this thread anymore, but if I'm looking to upgrade the two front speakers, what is the term that's used to describe those? Bookshelf?
Click to expand...
There's "bookshelf" (small) and "floorstanding" (big, the towers) and there's a few other odds and ends.
 
V

VanMardigan

has calmed down a bit.
Thanks everyone. Since this is my first speaker upgrade, I'll keep it modest. I'm looking to pick up a pair of Sony bookshelves, center, and sub at low prices. I'll keep looking around so I might change my mind, but even these are a big upgrade to the crap I currently have. And they're within my current budget.
 
R

Raistlin

Post Count: 9999
VanMardigan said:
I won't bother this thread anymore, but if I'm looking to upgrade the two front speakers, what is the term that's used to describe those? Bookshelf?
Click to expand...

That would depend on the type you want ... bookshelf, floor-standing, micro, etc.

The sizes are pretty self-explanatory
 
A

avaya

Member
Interesting comment by Penton-Man on Ken Graffeo, VP of Universal Home Video

Penton Man said:
Guys, be kind to Ken G. in some of the other threads here. Fact is, he is/was just a messenger for the HD DVD word. I don’t recall him ever stooping to the unethical behavior and tactics of a major spokesperson for a software company at least before he was *reassigned*....to a secret mission.

For instance, Ken G. never attempted to expose the identity of insiders that wished to remain anonymous (specifically paidgeek and talkstr8t) as did a junior grade V.P. [Amir] on more than one occasion on a protected “science” forum.
Click to expand...

http://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=27341&page=138

Graffeo might not be out of a job...
 
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