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[Swift_Star]

He didn't do it for "free", he got away with one of the biggest scams in videogame history, and made himself and his company rich.

And then, once he secured himself and any future project financialy, he then went back and started properly working on the game.Jusf because No Mans Lie and Murray was a scam initially, doesn't mean that the guy wants to keep scamming people.Like I said before, I 109% believe that Murray ran out of money before ever come close to completing the game and folling gamers was the only way to stay aflot.After he secured 90+ million dollars after the initial sales(sold 2 million in the first week if Im not mistaken), he could become the most philantropic man the world has ever seen, because he got away with robbery and being an indie studio meant that money would last until the end of times.

No Mans Lie wasnt a kickstarter game.Just because the game was developed after he got people's money doesnt make this okay, and intead of being like any other scam, it just makes this a smart scam

Nah that's star citizen

 

[Kilau]

I like the internet historian, but he is totally misguided in that video, much like with the baloon boy story.

Balloon boy's parents got a pardon so maybe there was something more to that story.

I think IH had a compelling argument there, at least made me consider the possibility it wasn't as bad as it all seemed and I was totally against the parents before I watched that video.

 

[Majukun]

Balloon boy's parents got a pardon so maybe there was something more to that story.

I think IH had a compelling argument there, at least made me consider the possibility it wasn't as bad as it all seemed and I was totally against the parents before I watched that video.

thing is, in that video he opens possibilities, but still doesn't give a plausible explanation for what the kid said on camera, it just ignores it..that's why i think he is a lil' too gullible sometimes..he wants to give both sides a fair chance, but often ends up sounding like he wants to believe.

like, am i suppose to think that murray was both able to setup a game company, pull enough strings to get a prime spot at e3, yet has no idea that if you said you can do X in your game but in the final product cannot, it's an issue?

he also looks at his "erratic" demeanor on camera as social awkwardness..but you know who also who looks on discomfort on camera?liars.
not being a stone faced liar doesn't make him an honest guy.

Nah that's star citizen

funny thing is, on a scale , star citizen is probably a more honest endeavor than no more sky.
one has always been a kickstarter, that comes with no certaintry of a retail release.
no man sky was an early access sold on stores as a fully finished game after a consistent pr campaign of lies.

 

[Nautilus]

Nah that's star citizen

Murray got away with the second biggest scam in videogame history.

 

[Kilau]

thing is, in that video he opens possibilities, but still doesn't give a plausible explanation for what the kid said on camera, it just ignores it..that's why i think he is a lil' too gullible sometimes..he wants to give both sides a fair chance, but often ends up sounding like he wants to believe.

Sometimes kids say weird nonsense stuff and get easily confused, I know my kids do. At least went from a 100% case to a possibility for me.

like, am i suppose to think that murray was both able to setup a game company, pull enough strings to get a prime spot at e3, yet has no idea that if you said you can do X in your game but in the final product cannot, it's an issue?

he also looks at his "erratic" demeanor on camera as social awkwardness..but you know who also who looks on discomfort on camera?liars.
not being a stone faced liar doesn't make him an honest guy.


funny thing is, on a scale , star citizen is probably a more honest endeavor than no more sky.
one has always been a kickstarter, that comes with no certaintry of a retail release.
no man sky was an early access sold on stores as a fully finished game after a consistent pr campaign of lies.

NMS E3 blew people away on a grand scale, it's not unthinkable that it blew Sony away too considering their excitement for it and secured the funding he needed there.

Sean clearly lied and misled but I don't think it came from a malicious intent but rather from a guy that got in way over his head and it snowballed. Not excusing his actions but I've never had the animosity towards him that so many have.

 

[Shifty1897]

If its ok to lie or release a broken game only to "fix" it years later, then there is no reason to hate or be mad at companies like EA and activision that do it all the time then.

No, not at all. Only two bad games have ever been fixed into good games post release, No Man's Sky and Final Fantasy 14 (maybe Cyberpunk 2077, but it's too early to tell). Everyone else took the money and ran, including EA and Activision. Look at Anthem, look at Battlefield 2042.

So yes, he lied, but he could have walked off with hundreds of millions of dollars with no obligation to do anything else. Instead he invested that money into the game. We're not supporting or forgetting the fact that he lied, we're supporting his conviction to make it right afterwards, which so few developers do these days.

This is unrelated to my first point and I don't want it to be the focus of this reply, but before NMS this was a dev team of like 10 people who had only ever made the Joe Danger games. I saw the trailers and heard the promises and knew something was up immediately. No team of 10 could deliver on what they were promising. NMS probably taught a lot of younger gamers the importance of not preordering games and waiting for reviews.

 

[Nautilus]

No, not at all. Only two bad games have ever been fixed into good games post release, No Man's Sky and Final Fantasy 14 (maybe Cyberpunk 2077, but it's too early to tell). Everyone else took the money and ran, including EA and Activision. Look at Anthem, look at Battlefield 2042.

So yes, he lied, but he could have walked off with hundreds of millions of dollars with no obligation to do anything else. Instead he invested that money into the game. We're not supporting or forgetting the fact that he lied, we're supporting his conviction to make it right afterwards, which so few developers do these days.

This is unrelated to my first point and I don't want it to be the focus of this reply, but before NMS this was a dev team of like 10 people who had only ever made the Joe Danger games. I saw the trailers and heard the promises and knew something was up immediately. No team of 10 could deliver on what they were promising. NMS probably taught a lot of younger gamers the importance of not preordering games and waiting for reviews.

The problem with supporting this type of "conviction" is that you are enabling more companies to do exactly what he did.The same happened with Microtransactions, day 1 patches, etc. and look where we are now.

If it was something like FF XIV, where they actually tried to make a good game, never(or almost never) lied about what it was, and failed miserably in doing that, then yeah, I'm all for supporting these devs that try to make things right.

But Murray knew exactly what he was doing with No Man's Lie, and did anyways.You guys are enabling companies to do the same.To release a broken or a hollow game to get addicional funding, and act like the good guy later that everyone ends up forgetting. It doesn't always work, specially with games with a larger budget(see GAAS games like Avengers and Anthem), but it sets up a bad precedent.

 

[Meicyn]

No Mans Lie

I moved on

He didn't do it for "free", he got away with one of the biggest scams in videogame history, and made himself and his company rich.

And then, once he secured himself and any future project financialy, he then went back and started properly working on the game.Jusf because No Mans Lie and Murray was a scam initially, doesn't mean that the guy wants to keep scamming people.Like I said before, I 109% believe that Murray ran out of money before ever come close to completing the game and folling gamers was the only way to stay aflot.After he secured 90+ million dollars after the initial sales(sold 2 million in the first week if Im not mistaken), he could become the most philantropic man the world has ever seen, because he got away with robbery and being an indie studio meant that money would last until the end of times.

No Mans Lie wasnt a kickstarter game.Just because the game was developed after he got people's money doesnt make this okay, and intead of being like any other scam, it just makes this a smart scam

I moved on

He fucked up the PR?He not only managed to sell 2 million units of a hollow game and of a company that had zero games under their belt, but also came out a hero at the end. He is a PR genious.

After the initial deserved shitstorm, he managed to fool gullibke gamers that he was sorry and make people be okay with being scammed. And now there he is, rich and with an "acclaimed" game.He is VERY good at PR.

And thats the point:Some people don't simply want the money, they want everything. If I was him, and being able to keep making games was on the table, then hell yeah, I would scam idiots out of their money and do everything to play victim so that I would be able to do what I love(make games) and never have to worry about money anymore. Much better than simply running away AND risking people suing you

I moved on

Murray got away with the second biggest scam in videogame history.

I moved on

The problem with supporting this type of "conviction" is that you are enabling more companies to do exactly what he did.The same happened with Microtransactions, day 1 patches, etc. and look where we are now.

If it was something like FF XIV, where they actually tried to make a good game, never(or almost never) lied about what it was, and failed miserably in doing that, then yeah, I'm all for supporting these devs that try to make things right.

But Murray knew exactly what he was doing with No Man's Lie, and did anyways.You guys are enabling companies to do the same.To release a broken or a hollow game to get addicional funding, and act like the good guy later that everyone ends up forgetting. It doesn't always work, specially with games with a larger budget(see GAAS games like Avengers and Anthem), but it sets up a bad precedent.

I moved on

I moved on

I moved on

I moved on

I moved on

lmao

 

[Nautilus]

lmao

?

 

[Swift_Star]

lmao

Being this salty over a game must not be healthy lol

 

[MHubert]

The problem with supporting this type of "conviction" is that you are enabling more companies to do exactly what he did.

Yes thats why you should applaud the current state of Hello Games. So other companies get an incentive to commit to, and fix their broken games.

But Murray knew exactly what he was doing with No Man's Lie, and did anyways.

This part is just you making up a story.

You guys are enabling companies to do the same.To release a broken or a hollow game to get addicional funding, and act like the good guy later that everyone ends up forgetting. It doesn't always work, specially with games with a larger budget(see GAAS games like Avengers and Anthem), but it sets up a bad precedent.

Please enlighten me how this sets a precedent where companies release a broken or a hollow game to get additional funding - HG used the money they earned to fix the game. You might have a point if it wasnt common for the big publishers to release full priced broken games in the first place, just to leave the games unfixed. The point is that NMS is the opposing story to all those stories - to the point where it has basically coined the term NMS redemption arc

 

[Brigandier]

Let's all just move on!!! Nautilus clearly has.

 

[Nautilus]

Yes thats why you should applaud the current state of Hello Games. So other companies get an incentive to commit to, and fix their broken games.


This part is just you making up a story.

Please enlighten me how this sets a precedent where companies release a broken or a hollow game to get additional funding - HG used the money they earned to fix the game. You might have a point if it wasnt common for the big publishers to release full priced broken games in the first place, just to leave the games unfixed. The point is that NMS is the opposing story to all those stories - to the point where it has basically coined the term NMS redemption arc

Is it too much to ask to not have broken or unfinished games at all?I don't want them to fix later, I want the games complete at launch. "Later" I will be playing other games, not to mention that we are encouraging an atitude that lets companies treat us as beta testers, not consumers. That's the problem.

We are funding and testing unfinished games, paying full price, and there are people like you that says we are expected to be happy and content that this happens.

Honestly, you all deserve to be fooled and used, like you guys were with No Mans Lie and Cyberpunk.

 

[Phunkydiabetic]

Is it too much to ask to not have broken or unfinished games at all?I don't want them to fix later, I want the games complete at launch. "Later" I will be playing other games, not to mention that we are encouraging an atitude that lets companies treat us as beta testers, not consumers. That's the problem.

We are funding and testing unfinished games, paying full price, and there are people like you that says we are expected to be happy and content that this happens.

Honestly, you all deserve to be fooled and used, like you guys were with No Mans Lie and Cyberpunk.

Holy shit you're still going! Haha a year after this thread was created and six years after No Man's Sky released...you're still going. Dude, let it go. Get outside for some fresh air.

 

[MHubert]

Is it too much to ask to not have broken or unfinished games at all?I don't want them to fix later, I want the games complete at launch. "Later" I will be playing other games, not to mention that we are encouraging an atitude that lets companies treat us as beta testers, not consumers. That's the problem.

We are funding and testing unfinished games, paying full price, and there are people like you that says we are expected to be happy and content that this happens.

Honestly, you all deserve to be fooled and used, like you guys were with No Mans Lie and Cyberpunk.

As long as people give developers money before the game is complete, then yes, it is too much to ask and it will keep happening. The difference with NMS is that its one of the very very few games where the developer didnt run with the money, so your grudge is much better spent elsewhere. The only thing you accomplish is making perfect the enemy of good.

I kind tend to agree with you. Anyone who pays for a product before its finished kind of deserve to be fooled. Stop preordering games.

 

[Nautilus]

Holy shit you're still going! Haha a year after this thread was created and six years after No Man's Sky released...you're still going. Dude, let it go. Get outside for some fresh air.

Why does this have anything to do with the topic?

I can do both things, you know? =)

 

[Nautilus]

As long as people give developers money before the game is complete, then yes, it is too much to ask and it will keep happening. The difference with NMS is that its one of the very very few games where the developer didnt run with the money, so your grudge is much better spent elsewhere. The only thing you accomplish is making perfect the enemy of good.

I kind tend to agree with you. Anyone who pays for a product before its finished kind of deserve to be fooled. Stop preordering games.

Yeah, pre ordering is so stupid, especially nowadays being possible to buy games digitally. But oh well.

And no, No Mans Lie deserves all the hate it gets, so that other devs who try to pull this shit knows what they are getting themselves in. I wish Hello Games all the best in their future endavours, but there is a difference between forgetting and accepting.

 

[treemk]

Yeah, pre ordering is so stupid, especially nowadays being possible to buy games digitally. But oh well.

And no, No Mans Lie deserves all the hate it gets, so that other devs who try to pull this shit knows what they are getting themselves in. I wish Hello Games all the best in their future endavours, but there is a difference between forgetting and accepting.

Pre ordering is fine if you want to accept the risk. Acting like a crime has been committed against you because you couldn't wait for a review however is childish and idiotic. Acting like other people pre ordering is hurting you is also childish and idiotic.

 

[MHubert]

And no, No Mans Lie deserves all the hate it gets, so that other devs who try to pull this shit knows what they are getting themselves in. I wish Hello Games all the best in their future endavours, but there is a difference between forgetting and accepting.

I think you have that reversed. Publishers have released broken games at launch since the beginning of gaming and they will obviously keep doing it. Applauding HG for what they have been doing with NMS is a way for us consumers to change that somewhat by showing that, yes, it pays to commit to your games. If everyone kept doing what you are doing the only outcome would be that publishers would keep releasing broken games like they have always done and when confronted if they should actually commit to fix it just say 'why bother', because obviously they would have no incentive to do so.

So:
Games broken at launch ------> will always be a problem no matter how much you complain, unless consumers change their behaviour (preordering)
Broken games at launch getting fixed ------> can only happen if we allow a 'redemption arc' ala NMS

 

[Nautilus]

Pre ordering is fine if you want to accept the risk. Acting like a crime has been committed against you because you couldn't wait for a review however is childish and idiotic. Acting like other people pre ordering is hurting you is also childish and idiotic.

Obviously its not a crime, but your giving a vote of confidence on a company that only cares about your money, and it has no refund(and no, the problem is you giving money before not knowing the products quality, not not having refund) is stupid, to say the least.And people complaining afterwards that they bought a bad product is sad and funny, at least for me.

 

[Nautilus]

I think you have that reversed. Publishers have released broken games at launch since the beginning of gaming and they will obviously keep doing it. Applauding HG for what they have been doing with NMS is a way for us consumers to change that somewhat by showing that, yes, it pays to commit to your games. If everyone kept doing what you are doing the only outcome would be that publishers would keep releasing broken games like they have always done and when confronted if they should actually commit to fix it just say 'why bother', because obviously they would have no incentive to do so.

So:
Games broken at launch ------> will always be a problem no matter how much you complain, unless consumers change their behaviour (preordering)
Broken games at launch getting fixed ------> can only happen if we allow a 'redemption arc' ala NMS

No, you didn't understand what I said. BOTH types of practice, releasing broken and unfinished games and games that leaves "early access" years after it was launched should both be criticized and abolished by the customers.

Both are harmful for the customers and the industry at large.

 

[March Climber]

I can't believe this thread was resurrected to try and settle a year long grudge with a 2 year old video.

 

[MHubert]

No, you didn't understand what I said. BOTH types of practice, releasing broken and unfinished games and games that leaves "early access" years after it was launched should both be criticized and abolished by the customers.

Both are harmful for the customers and the industry at large.

So let me get this straight - in your world HG commited two wrongs: First by releasing the game broken. Secondly by commiting to fix said broken game post lauch. Did I get that right?

 

[Nautilus]

So let me get this straight - in your world HG commited two wrongs: First by releasing the game broken. Secondly by commiting to fix said broken game post lauch. Did I get that right?

Not by fixing said broken game post launch, but by doing that by design, by "fixing the game later" being the plan all along.

But yeah, that's about it.

 

[Tams]

No, you didn't understand what I said. BOTH types of practice, releasing broken and unfinished games and games that leaves "early access" years after it was launched should both be criticized and abolished by the customers.

Both are harmful for the customers and the industry at large.

I think you need to learn to read.

You just described the same problem. But you didn't say a game getting fixed was a problem, which was their point.

 

[Nautilus]

I think you need to learn to read.

You just described the same problem. But you didn't say a game getting fixed was a problem, which was their point.

They may be similar, but are clearly different concepts. FF XIV released to bad reception because it was a bad game at launch, and that was due to devs simply being out of touch on what makes a good MMO.

No Mans Lie released to bad reception because the game was unfinished, and that was probably due to Murray running out of money( we will probably never know the actual reason). But the point is, the game was launched in an unfinished state, unlike other disasters like FF XIV.

The diference here is intent.

 

[Deerock71]

 

[Kamina]

Murray got away with the second biggest scam in videogame history.

first being Star Citizen i presume

 

[MHubert]

Not by fixing said broken game post launch, but by doing that by design, by "fixing the game later" being the plan all along.

Okay but you cant prove that and for all I know you are just making that up so this is obviously the end of any logical discussion. I would argue that any sane person with a modicum of business sense wouldnt plan their product to fail from the start, but to each their own. So far you have only argued that developers should not fix their inclomplete games post launch.

 

[ahtlas7]

 

[Nautilus]

Okay but you cant prove that and for all I know you are just making that up so this is obviously the end of any logical discussion. I would argue that any sane person with a modicum of business sense wouldnt plan their product to fail from the start, but to each their own. So far you have only argued that developers should not fix their inclomplete games post launch.

Quite the opposite my friend. The natural conclusion, after all the lies he told about the game and that said features were added only years after the launch, is that this was planned all alone.

And since you can't prove any of this, the only thing you have proved so far is that there are people out there that accepts pretty much anything devs make, and are ok to be lied to.

 

[Meicyn]

Why does this have anything to do with the topic?

I can do both things, you know? =)

 

[Stop Making Sense]

besides all that hyperbole..
you all do realize, that hype helped sony too?
it was all console wars, as always in the starting phase of a new gen.
and Sony has been hard into that war.
may be wrong, but not that wrong

 

[MHubert]

Quite the opposite my friend. The natural conclusion, after all the lies he told about the game and that said features were added only years after the launch, is that this was planned all alone.

And since you can't prove any of this, the only thing you have proved so far is that there are people out there that accepts pretty much anything devs make, and are ok to be lied to.

Interesting. Good night.

 

[Nautilus]

 

[Nautilus]

Interesting. Good night.

For you too, my friend.

 

[Stop Making Sense]

schtick thread?

 

[Tripolygon]

When you've committed to acting crazy but backing down seems like not an option anymore so you commit even more to act crazy.

Seriously, people, it's okay to be wrong about something and change your mind as new information comes. Sticking to the same nonsensical point for years on end is not a healthy behavior or a sign of growth and maturity.

That being said, kudos to Sean and the team for carrying on to support the game for free without asking for a cent after the initial purchase.

 

[Stop Making Sense]

fair enough…
now lets talk about Sony`s MemeSquad