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[kirblar]

They had trolls and bots too?? Dayum, I guess there was just no beating Trump.

The grand left/liberal delusion that the majority of people just need more education and their inherent goodness will lead them to do the right thing is so, so awful.

Hillary fell into the trap, and the people who "blame" the democrats for losing each time "because we shouldn't be losing to that" endlessly make the exact same one.

 

[Fenderputty]

1. It proves that Bernie would have won

2. It proves that you centrist's ignore facts when it doesn't fit your narrative

I mean, he may have won, but we'll never know because he wasn't even good enough to get his foot in the door. All you do is prove the extreme left prefers to live in fantasy land rather than take a pragmatic approach to reality. Shall I just bend the knee?

 

[Autodidact]

The grand left/liberal delusion that the majority of people just need more education and their inherent goodness will lead them to do the right thing is so, so awful.

Hillary fell into the trap, and the people who "blame" the democrats for losing each time "because we shouldn't be losing to that" endlessly make the exact same one.

"But my mawmaw can't really be a nasty bigot. Trump must've fooled her, or Hillary didn't give her something to vote for..."

 

[royalan]

"HILLARY CLINTON HAS NEVER TAKEN OWNERSHIP FOR HER MISTAKES."

*Hillary writes a whole ass book on her campaign*

"Ugh, why won't she go away!?"

 

[Zaphrynn]

1. It proves that Bernie would have won

2. It proves that you centrist's ignore facts when it doesn't fit your narrative

Lmao. Christ.

 

[AcademicSaucer]

I mean, he may have won, but we'll never know because he wasn't even good enough to get his foot in the door. All you do is prove the extreme left prefers to live in fantasy land rather than take a pragmatic approach to reality. Shall I just bend the knee?

From reading this forum I think the argument is that its like Pokemon tho, Bernie water lost to Hillary grass but he would have won against Trump fire.

 

[Henchmen21]

I mean, he may have won, but we'll never know because he wasn't even good enough to get his foot in the door. All you do is prove the extreme left prefers to live in fantasy land rather than take a pragmatic approach to reality. Shall I just bend the knee?

What fantasy? The DNC did rig the primary.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

"HILLARY CLINTON HAS NEVER TAKEN OWNERSHIP FOR HER MISTAKES."

*Hillary writes a whole ass book on her campaign*

"Ugh, why won't she go away!?"

Does she take ownership in the whole ass book?

 

[Neoweee]

What fantasy? The DNC did rig the primary.

Specifically what did they do?

 

[Brinbe]

What fantasy? The DNC did rig the primary.

Lmfao. Great. Glad to know everyone should ignore your awful opinions from now on.

 

[jtb]

I can dislike Democrats and still vote for them. I did not like or agree with Hillary on a lot of issues but I still voted for her.

Do you only vote for people you 100% agree with?

Depends on the context. I don't give a fuck about likability.

If whether you 'like' Democrats is irrelevant, why does it matter to you what 'posters that go all in on the Democratic party' do? Or even why someone who will never run for public office ever again takes 'ownership' or not for their failure?

If it's meaningless (which I'm inclined to believe), what's the big deal anyways?

Does she take ownership in the whole ass book?

So why does this matter?

 

[Daingurse]

In my head it'll always be, "People Are Fucking Stupid."

Because that's what happened. People are fucking idiots. I'm lumping being racist and sexist under that for now.

That's basically what I've been thinking since election night. I underestimated the stupidity of people in this country, and I will never make that mistake again.

 

[Eidan]

Specifically what did they do?

Stuff. Thangs.

 

[Arrogant Bastard]

What fantasy? The DNC did rig the primary.

I'm sure you are going to bring receipts, right? Actually, why would I think you would when you already linked me a a poll aggregate and somehow deluded yourself into thinking that means Bernie would have won.

GAF, when can this be over.

 

[aeolist]

I mean, he may have won, but we'll never know because he wasn't even good enough to get his foot in the door. All you do is prove the extreme left prefers to live in fantasy land rather than take a pragmatic approach to reality. Shall I just bend the knee?

your pragmatic centrism has just experienced a massive sustained loss over the last decade with no turnaround in sight against a party that's incredibly unpopular and the second worst presidential candidate in history

anyone who's observed american politics for any length of time and thinks the democratic party doesn't need huge fundamental changes can't call themselves a realist

 

[Maiden Voyage]

Depends on the context. I don't give a fuck about likability.

If whether you 'like' Democrats is irrelevant, why does it matter to you what 'posters that go all in on the Democratic party' do? Or even why someone who will never run for public office ever again takes 'ownership' or not for their failure?

If it's meaningless (which I'm inclined to believe), what's the big deal anyways?



So why does this matter?

My choices are Democrat or Republican. I care about the future of my country. I follow what each side does. Would you prefer I not?

 

[Fenderputty]

From reading this forum I think the argument is that its like Pokemon tho, Bernie water lost to Hillary grass but he would have won against Trump fire.

Yes I understand the point. If you can't get past grass to get to fire there's zero point in bringing this up though.

What fantasy? The DNC did rig the primary.

Yes, because Bernie won so many super democratic caucuses. He was totally screwed from a true democratic chance.

your pragmatic centrism has just experienced a massive sustained loss over the last decade with no turnaround in sight against a party that's incredibly unpopular and the second worst presidential candidate in history

anyone who's observed american politics for any length of time and thinks the democratic party doesn't need huge fundamental changes can't call themselves a realist

This post is hilariously devoid of any and all context.

 

[Wafflecakes]

What fantasy? The DNC did rig the primary.

LOLOLOL

The Bernie Bro delusions. Almost nostalgic for it at this point.

 

[jtb]

My choices are Democrat or Republican. I care about the future of my country. I follow what each side does. Would you prefer I not?

How does insisting Hillary take ownership of her loss have literally anything to do with the future of the country?

She takes ownership of her loss. Great. Now what?

 

[kirblar]

your pragmatic centrism has just experienced a massive sustained loss over the last decade with no turnaround in sight against a party that's incredibly unpopular and the second worst presidential candidate in history

anyone who's observed american politics for any length of time and thinks the democratic party doesn't need huge fundamental changes can't call themselves a realist

In 1976 Jimmy Carter took office with supermajorities in state legislature control and both chambers of congress.

Things did not go well for the Dems after that.

If you don't understand history you are going to woefully misunderstand both the pendulum nature of American politics and how things have changed post-LBJ and continue to change today.

 

[civilstrife]

I am genuinely curious why she passed out. That...wasn't a good day.

 

[Fenderputty]

In 1976 Jimmy Carter took office with supermajorities in state legislature control and both chambers of congress.

Things did not go well for the Dems after that.

If you don't understand history you are going to woefully misunderstand both the pendulum nature of American politics and how things have changed post-LBJ and continue to change today.

Like I said ... "devoid of any and all context"

 

[Eidan]

I am genuinely curious why she passed out. That...wasn't a good day.

She was sick. Her campaign said so.

 

[DOWN]

Bitch over here writin' books like she owns the place.

Lmao this

 

[Autodidact]

your pragmatic centrism has just experienced a massive sustained loss over the last decade with no turnaround in sight against a party that's incredibly unpopular and the second worst presidential candidate in history

anyone who's observed american politics for any length of time and thinks the democratic party doesn't need huge fundamental changes can't call themselves a realist

Can you really say that a party that won the popular vote and gained seats in Congress has been repudiated by the electorate?

 

[Maiden Voyage]

How does insisting Hillary take ownership of her loss have literally anything to do with the future of the country?

She takes ownership of her loss. Great. Now what?

Is your objection to me criticizing Hillary because I'm not a registered Democrat?

 

[Ms.Galaxy]

I am genuinely curious why she passed out. That...wasn't a good day.

Dehydration while having pneumonia, which could have came from a flu, in a pretty warm day. Not a good mix, but at least she recovered rather quick enough.

 

[Audioboxer]

It's a bloody book. No one has to buy it if they feel so oppressed by Clinton putting words on a page.

I don't disagree. However, I am observing everyone reliving the American 2016 election, and I feel that will further be compounded in September of this year, which will spill into 2018. How long is this election campaign going to be relived before it's, uh wait, oops, it's now 2020... Shit, we're still arguing about "reasons" for 2016! She is releasing a book called "What Happened", so she is at least complicit in opting to reignite 2016 a year on. I mean, has there been anyone before who has written a book about... losing an election? I'm not talking about biographies years down the line that talks about loss/hardships, but a whole book all about one loss?

A multitude of opinions and reasons have been all over the internet for months for what caused the election. There isn't some golden secret answer gated behind $20~30 that will shatter everything and cause a warp hole back to 2016 where things can differ. Buy the book/don't buy the book, just please don't have the country still arguing about 2016 in 2018/2019/2020. The Dems actually need to win the next election and still going on about Hillary Clinton's "stunning defeat last year to Donald Trump" for the next few years isn't going to help.

She doesn't need to disappear into a black hole, but hey, she's the one choosing to release a book about a loss people are still angry about, so like any public media release it can be observed/discussed/criticised.

 

[Seventy70]

I love it how some people try to act like being vile to a celebrity or politician hasn't existed forever. It's just the way it is, public figures get criticized harshly.

The "she gets pure hate for no reason but sexism" is ridiculous. Go take a peek in some of the Bernie threads during the peak of the election. You'll find plenty of vile things said about him. What did he do wrong? That's just the way it is with public figures.

Now, I'm not saying Hillary didn't face sexism, she totally did. But the problem is when people throw around that accusation so loosely. I and many of the people here that criticize her aren't sexists, so having any criticism brushed off as "you're just sexist!" is incredibly frustrating.

As for election, I don't think the blame falls on any one thing. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to tell you that. This back and forth "nuh uh, it was you!" is stupid.

She seems to be making an attempt to have a nuanced take on it, so good on her.

 

[aeolist]

Can you really say that a party that won the popular vote and gained seats in Congress has been repudiated by the electorate?

i hope that knowing democrats won more votes comforts you somewhat as we are slowly engulfed by boiling ocean water

 

[DarkLordMalik]

She is just cashing on what is popular right now so I don't blame her.

Even people are still asking the question daily: What Happened?

 

[Wafflecakes]

Is your objection to me criticizing Hillary because I'm not a registered Democrat?

Ah the red herring. Pathetic.

He asked you a question, how about you answer it without the distracting BS?

 

[jtb]

Is your objection to me criticizing Hillary because I'm not a registered Democrat?

What the hell are you talking about?

You've been going on and on about how Hillary hasn't taken ownership of her loss, and now you're saying that the future of our country depends (!) on her taking ownership of her loss. How?

 

[Neoweee]

She is just cashing on what is popular right now so I don't blame her.

Even people are still asking the question daily: What Happened?

Book sales are nothing compared to the public speaking revenue.

 

[Maiden Voyage]

What the hell are you talking about?

You've been going on and on about how Hillary hasn't taken ownership of her loss, and now you're saying that the future of our country depends (!) on her taking ownership of her loss. How?

Where did I say her taking ownership is the future of our country. I said I follow politics because I care about the future of our country. I said that because you asked why I care about what the dems do.

 

[Giant Panda]

Man people need to get the fuck over themselves. You can hate Hillary Clinton without being a relentless asshole about it.

 

[Wafflecakes]

Where did I say her taking ownership is the future of our country. I said I follow politics because I care about the future of our country. I said that because you asked why I care about what the dems do.

Once again. HOW AND WHY would her taking "ownership" make a damn difference?

 

[Maiden Voyage]

Once again. HOW AND WHY would her taking "ownership" make a damn difference?

What are you even talking about?

Where did I supposedly say Clinton owning up to the loss would make a difference?

 

[Seventy70]

Man people need to get the fuck over themselves. You can hate Hillary Clinton without being a relentless asshole about it.

Insert any public figure in your post and it works either way. People have talked about public figures like assholes for ages now.

 

[Autodidact]

i hope that knowing democrats won more votes comforts you somewhat as we are slowly engulfed by boiling ocean water

Don't try to be cute. The second-most unpopular candidate of all time won the popular vote, and her "coastal, elite, centrist, out-of-touch, identity politics" party gained seats despite coming off two terms of a Democratic president and facing a Trump wave with unprecedented rural turnout.

You say that "pragmatic centrist" Democrats, whatever that means, have died an ignominious death. The numbers say otherwise.

 

[Stormhammer]

It's a bloody book. No one has to buy it if they feel so oppressed by Clinton putting words on a page.

so people can't have a discussion about her book if they don't like her?

 

[hammysaurusrex]

I'm not sure the book will serve much purpose unless there's some novel revelations about the inner campaign machinery that is brought to light. I think everyone is aware of most of the internal vs. external and controllable vs. uncontrollable factors - and the debate on which one really tipped the scale will never be done so with convincing proof. It's clear the Comey and Russia meddling worked on the margins, but there's also a good argument that it shouldn't have been on the margins to begin with.

That being said, the lazy campaigning in the "blue wall" will always particularly fascinate me. Given that Bernie totally dismantled his chance of winning the primary by ignoring the southern US, it's hard to not want to bang your head on the desk seeing Clinton have a lackadaisical approach to the bread and butter swing states for the general election.

 

[Wafflecakes]

What are you even talking about?

Where did I supposedly say Clinton owning up to the loss would make a difference?

Are you being intentionally obtuse?

 

[jtb]

What are you even talking about?

Where did I supposedly say Clinton owning up to the loss would make a difference?

So you're just going on and on about 'taking ownership' for...... what reason exactly?

 

[TurnipFritters]

i hope that knowing democrats won more votes comforts you somewhat as we are slowly engulfed by boiling ocean water

This doesn't actually contradict them or support your original statement.

so people can't have a discussion about her book if they don't like her?

It's kind of dumb that people are complaining that book exists, or complaining about the hypothetical contents.

 

[Wafflecakes]

so people can't have a discussion about her book if they don't like her?

It isn't a discussion, people want Hillary to climb into a hole a disappear for no good reason.

That isn't a discussion on the merits of a book.

 

[Nafai1123]

don't worry, i disliked warmongering centrists before we got dumps of their emails suggesting things like looting middle eastern countries for their oil when we invade them

Yeah, thankfully we have a POTUS who just says that shit in public.

 

[Grinchy]

Weren't she and Bill making like $45M per year on speeches? I wonder if that money dried up a little bit after the insane failure of a presidential run and this is a way to make some cash? I just don't see what the point of this is other than to make money and she's already rich as hell.

 

[QuantumBro]

i hope that knowing democrats won more votes comforts you somewhat as we are slowly engulfed by boiling ocean water

We were so close in those 2017 house races too! And with a new slogan like this

A Better Deal: Better Skills, Better Jobs, Better Wages

2018 and 2020 are in the bag. Good luck Drumpf, you and your Nazis are finished!

 

[Neoweee]

I'm not sure the book will serve much purpose unless there's some novel revelations about the inner campaign machinery that is brought to light. I think everyone is aware of most of the internal vs. external and controllable vs. uncontrollable factors - and the debate on which one really tipped the scale will never be done so with convincing proof. It's clear the Comey and Russia meddling worked on the margins, but there's also a good argument that it shouldn't have been on the margins to begin with.

That being said, the lazy campaigning in the "blue wall" will always particularly fascinate me. Given that Bernie totally dismantled his chance of winning the primary by ignoring the southern US, it's hard to not want to bang your head on the desk seeing Clinton have a lackadaisical approach to the bread and butter swing states for the general election.

She didn't have a really lackadaisical approach. She campaigned in PA a ton, and spent there, and still lost.

What would the overall electorate have looked like in a situtation where she won PA, but still lost WI and MI? All three of the states, and Florida, and the huge margins against her in IA and OH, where the same wave of white people without college degrees that don't normally vote, but did this time.

Bernie could have conceivably made up his giant loss in the South with other states, due to proportional delegate assignment. But he lost by four million votes, in the South, in urban centers, and in the typical battleground states. He was so vastly less popular than Hillary that it really didn't matter all that much what states he focused on.