freeofgreed
Member
Good for you. I disagree.
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Hillary Clinton publishing book about 2016 election in Sept titled "What Happened"
- Thread starter johnsmith
- Start date
Good for you. I disagree.
I hope it's not that. I am cautiously optimistic on the book, though I'm expecting the usual excuses.
because in those speeches she said things to millionaire bankers like "politicians need to have public and private policies" and people already believed she was untrustworthy?
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
What does that have to do with the post I quoted?
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
Resisting..... tag ......... quote
wesleyshark
Banned
Lol
Father_Brain
Banned
She has literally said the words "I'm sorry" and "I take responsibility," yes.
She also explicitly said that she doesn't believe she lost because of any decision she or her campaign made, which renders those words completely meaningless, because she doesn't believe she has anything to take responsibility for.
Talking like that makes it seem like there wasn't millions of people who didn't vote.
Dude Abides
Banned
Lawn sings? Really? The Obama campaign also thought lawn signs were useless.
excelsiorlef
Member
Hey y'all ummm it's a book.
Resident_UA
Member
First of all you are reading into meaning of every single word she pronounced, but more importantly why do you give a shit? If that makes her better sleep at night, good for her!
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
The only thing lawn signs are good for is knowing which one of your neighbors you disagree with. Which, if the McCain threads are any indication, could be detrimental to your health.
Trojita
Rapid Response Threadmaker
It seems you don't understand herd mentality. Lawn signs and bumper stickers, while the latter being an annoying eye sore, are important parts of campaigns.
Edit: You are also ignoring that the Obama campaign made up for it by a massive ground game effort to register voters and go door to door campaigning.
You don't understand one of the principles of democracy. You don't have to agree with everyone but every vote and opinion counts the same. You must allow different opinions, even if you disagree. But you have the opportunity to discuss with them and to convince them that your arguments and opinions are better.
Dude Abides
Banned
It seems you don't know how campaigns work. Lawn signs are an incentive to get supporters to sign up to volunteer so they can get a sign. That's it. They aren't actually useful to persuade people to vote for a candidate.
Actually I was one of those people doing that in the Obama campaign so I'm not ignoring anything. Hillary had a ground game, but it was not effective in the states that flipped Trump, either because of her inherent flaws or because it wasn't deployed in the right areas. Those are actually good criticisms, not nonsense about fucking yard signs.
It really doesn't because, as I just said, the 'most qualified' aspect refers to her abilities in working as an elected official, not as a campaigner. Those are different things. And in any case "Most qualified" doesn't mean that you are immune to making even stupid mistakes.
Personally, I think that a lot of her laxness came from the fact that she was up against Trump. My guess is that her thought process was akin to "Man, I don't even need to try, because seriously, who would vote for this idiot?" And if you had told me that she did this during the election, I would have thought similarly, especially when poll numbers showed she was up despite not campaigning there.
Clearly, that ended up being wrong, but you can see how one might come to the conclusion that campaigning in the rust belt truly didn't matter. That's why all this is a shock. No one expected that America would be this goddamn stupid.
But now that we know it is, we're supposed to act as though Clinton should have known they were?
Again, it's not that I don't think she fucked up, because she did. But she didn't fuck up enough to justify Trump winning. So that responsibility lies with the American people. They fucked up.
Vanillalite
Ask me about the GAF Notebook
Sure. She can put this out whenever she wants.
It fans the flames regardless of where you fall though. Just look at this thread. Is that really want we need right now?
Orniletter
Banned
Yep. 100% true
How in the fuck is it her fault if this disgusting sack of racist, orange filth is exactly what enough people in America truly want as their president ?
Don't give me this crap about how her campaign was apparently terribly run. Literally every european country would have elected her, heck, out of 45 polled countires, every single one except Russia would have elected her.
There is only so much a normal candidate can do, when an electorate is as uneducated, racist, vile, ignorant and plain terrible as the US-electorate.
thiscoldblack
Unconfirmed Member
The book aptly ends with "Should've been Bernie".
I'm expecting this.
AcademicSaucer
Member
Man this is really great, I remember posters in GAF antagonizing people 99.9% on their side when they asked what are her policies, accusing them of being Trump supporters and then sending them to her website in a condescending way.
old manatee
Banned
SlimySnake
Flashless at the Golden Globes
I know i am late but should be titled 'WTF happened' or 'Why didnt you vote for me you fucking idiots?!!'
Here's what she has said on this topic:
Sounds to me like she has taken responsibility for not only her own personal flaws as a politician but also the mistakes she and her campaign made. Her basic argument is that while she ran a flawed campaign, they were on track to win the election until the Comey Letter and well timed wikileaks stuff tipped the election. There is data to support this idea. It doesn't absolve her campaign, she was clearly a deeply flawed candidate.
This thread isn't at all surprising if you wander into any thread regarding democrats in any capacity. It's not going to change. Quite frankly nothing in any of these threads are reasons not to vote so it shouldn't make a difference. Unless you're fine with what Trump is doing that is.
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
She has in some post-interview but not as much as she should to be honest. I mean, as this thread is showing, it'll never be enough for some, but she should own up to it. But there are other legitimate factors that lead to her defeat that deserves their fair share of blame.
Well, if you say so, it must be indisputable fact!
What do you think "What Happened" implies? Think of instances of when you have uttered those words or heard someone else say them. Whether consciously or not the book title seems to say events happened that were out of her control or something similar and she wasn't responsible for what happened.
Father_Brain
Banned
this thread doesn't really represent much of anything in the broader world tbh
Well, I'm the only one in that conversation that has said things that Bush has done that I find to be worse:
Here's his examples of why Trump is worse:
Sirpopopop
Member
GWB was a worse candidate than Trump.
Trump has a type of intersectionality that is tough to beat.
The Shadow
Member
Omg....lol
If you're making political decisions based on how insecure a video game forum (filled with its fair share of anime nazis) makes you feel, you're already losing.
I mean, Trump is trying to kick millions of poor people off insurance, has the most openly hateful and racist cabinet in decades, and is destroying our democracy. Not a one to one comparison or anything, but he's gotta be in the running at least.
freeofgreed
Member
Lol I love your obsession with me having the audacity of finding Trump worse than Bush, and how angry it makes you from my tangential comment. As if that's anything to be remotely upset about. My description of you as a child is quite apt.
Rentahamster
Rodent Whores
If you read my posts over the past 2 years, you already knew what was gonna happen. Spoiler alert.
They'd rather blame the competent loser instead of the incompetent winner. They don't want to point the finger at Trump and examine why he won. They'd rather just be angry at Hillary Clinton. Maybe it's one of the stages of grief.
Black Republican
Member
Did Clinton have most of Obamas relection team behind her? It was a mess on both character and behind the scenes
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
Theonik
Member
See, everyone knows how shit FPTP is but at the same time, 'least worst option' doesn't sell people on a ballot.
Eh, that's an issue you have to contend with. Get people to want to vote for you next time.
Stop ruining my fun!
I'm not angry at you for having the audacity to find Trump worse. I'm sick of liberals at large with the memory of goldfish now praising a lying fucking war criminal that plunged the world into chaos and killed countless people and wishing he was president instead. That's mostly what I was responding with. After that though I'm mostly annoyed you seem to keep wanting to converse without any actual conversation happening. You've still not actually said any real reason why you think Trump is worse. You seem to have conceded a bit that the comparison is stupid due to the time difference in office (which was partially what I was getting at to begin with...)
No. It's a follow-up to your post, which is a follow-up to the post you quoted.
Nobody except idiot ~both sidez~ centrists want George Bush as our president again.
Evidence: Jeb!'s $100 million campaign crashing and burning.
We shouldn't rehabilitate GWB's image, but the neocon wing is well and truly dead.
Peter Ian Staker
Member
"From bean to cup, I fucked up"
Maiden Voyage
Gold™ Member
would not surprise if it is this
Father_Brain
Banned
If the book actually acknowledges specific mistakes and that they contributed to her defeat, I'll eat crow and give her some modicum of credit. Until then, I'm going to assume that "I take responsibility for every decision I made, but that's not why I lost" is what she genuinely believes, because it's in line with everything else she's said since the election.
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