Hasphat'sAnts
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It really is incredible how much better Lincoln was versus the rest of them. Truly remarkable man
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Historians Rank Obama 12th Best President
- Thread starter Rainy
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He defeated communism. Or something.
I do recognize the considerable increase in general the state of the U.S. by the end of the 1980's, but I don't want to give him too much credit. 2 things in particular had nothing or little to do with Reagan:
1. Adoption of Japanese Total Quality Control methods. The Japanese had established dominance over American industries by the end of the 1970's due to their embrace of a wide variety of total quality control processes that American companies were completely ignorant of. America at first blamed their lack of competitiveness on cheap Japanese labor. By the 1980's America finally woke up and realized that Japan had adopted some new technology and by the end of the 1980's America was well on its way to adopting these new processes and closing the competitiveness gap.
It can't be overstated how much America's lack of understanding Total Quality Control decimated American businesses. Entire industries had been wiped out because Japanese firms could produce products at lower cost and with a near total lack of defects. A well known anecdote is when Hewlett-Packard did business with Japan for the first time HP demanded a 2% defect rate, and the Japanese firm balked, but relented to win the contract. The Japanese firm sent them a 100% defect-free initial batch and separately sent them a batch containing 2% worth of parts they had to damage themselves. That was the first time HP realized they were hopelessly out competed.
2. Paul Volcker's Federal Reserve policy that ended the crippling inflation (nominated originally by Carter).
Reagan did a lot to restore America's confidence in itself after Kennedy's assassination, Vietnam, Watergate, Ford's pardon, and the stagflation of the 70's. I give him a lot of credit for setting the optimism of the era. Continuing deregulation certainly helped. Otherwise I do think he was the benefactor of being in the right place at the right time.
It's only by a stroke of luck we're not in a nuclear wasteland right now because of Reagan's tactics during the Cold War.
In a sense his strategy worked and forced Russia into an Arms Race they couldn't afford, but on the other hand if you read up on the Cold War it's incredibly scary to see how close we got to blowing each other up from radar glitches that looked just like missile's on their screen.
Moral authority must be incredibly weighted to have Reagan and Obama so up high
BreezyLimbo
Banned
Triggerhappytel
Member
Got that 44th spot specially reserved for the orange sack of shit.
Reading through this thread, our ability to effectively sort through a list of significant people that stretches beyond ~16 years seems to be significantly handicapped. Seriously, it's a list of the best presidents in the context of American history, not necessarily in the context of yesterday. Andrew Jackson did terrible things that reflected on America at the time, Woodrow Wilson had horrible views that reflected on America at the time, and so on and so forth. All this should be considered, but any analysis that starts and ends with "was a piece of shit" is basically null and void.
Woodrow Wilson lead us through WWI, influenced the spread of intergovernmental organizations, and helped lay the ideological seeds for self-determinism and decolonization. Additionally, he had a massive impact on fiscal and monetary policy. Reagan and FDR are up there, partly, because they changed the course of our politics - Jackson did this x100. Being effective or influential don't necessarily mean completely rising above the sins of your times. These people all, to varying extents, reflected the good and the bad of the country they lead. This includes Lincoln, who was such a remarkable man that sometimes his presidency seems providential.
Looking at the past exclusively through the prism of an indignant presentism, what you see resembles fashion more than actual history.
As for Obama, put me on the "history will continue viewing him quite fondly for a long time to come" side. 12 doesn't seem too off.
Woodrow Wilson lead us through WWI, influenced the spread of intergovernmental organizations, and helped lay the ideological seeds for self-determinism and decolonization. Additionally, he had a massive impact on fiscal and monetary policy. Reagan and FDR are up there, partly, because they changed the course of our politics - Jackson did this x100. Being effective or influential don't necessarily mean completely rising above the sins of your times. These people all, to varying extents, reflected the good and the bad of the country they lead. This includes Lincoln, who was such a remarkable man that sometimes his presidency seems providential.
Looking at the past exclusively through the prism of an indignant presentism, what you see resembles fashion more than actual history.
As for Obama, put me on the "history will continue viewing him quite fondly for a long time to come" side. 12 doesn't seem too off.
Wilson also started the first system of mass media propaganda with the creel committee, rallied America go war to appease bankers which led America to financial disaster. Effectively crippled all socialist and radical movements in America. Privatized a ton of industries and oversaw some of the worst race riots with no conviction. There's a few progressive policies for sure but overall 👎👎
LBJ's great society has added 10s of trillions of government spending in the years since, for what? A ~2-3% reduction in the rates of poverty, at best, if you consider the entire decrease in poverty rates a direct result of his programs(it isn't).
He gets credit for civil rights when he knew the political cost it would have, but just about everything else he did was 100% shit.
Both of the Roosevelts are ranked too high as per usual, Teddy was a war-mongering glory hound, and FDR was a quasi-fascist who continued and extended Hoover's policies of lengthening the great depression by government interference. FDR gets some credit for WWII, but still.
-Plasma Reus-
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People always say they dont want another civil war.
We all know that the Republican party only stands for thickening its pockets and oppressing others. They continuously lie, obstruct and break down American values and institutions on a constant basis. The red states continue to support them because of their hatred for progressive American values and minorities.
Yet everyone praises Lincoln, and guess what, he started a war, over these economic and social differences within America, and the country was better for it. It seems to be that a great president, at least according to American history, should start a war against his political opponents to better America.
Next democratic presidential should put his foot down on their throats and declare the entire party treasonous.
We all know that the Republican party only stands for thickening its pockets and oppressing others. They continuously lie, obstruct and break down American values and institutions on a constant basis. The red states continue to support them because of their hatred for progressive American values and minorities.
Yet everyone praises Lincoln, and guess what, he started a war, over these economic and social differences within America, and the country was better for it. It seems to be that a great president, at least according to American history, should start a war against his political opponents to better America.
Next democratic presidential should put his foot down on their throats and declare the entire party treasonous.
ForsakenLotus
Member
How is Andrew Jackson not way further down?
Monocle
Member
No kidding.
StrategyFan
Member
foreign policy stuff can't be obstructed as much
that's what the president should focus on if congress is a lost cause, and i don't think Obama will be viewed too favorably there
First
"We are gonna be winning so much and so hard that you'll get tired of it"
Don't forget
MarkMclovin
Member
ITT, we are reminded that the American people are absolutely awful at electing their presidents.
ITT we are reminded that's it's much easier to Monday morning quarterback decades and/or centuries after the fact
Linkstrikesback
Member
Reagan is going to drop further down as time passes and people are able to look at him with fresh eyes, I think.
He created the Federal Reserve. As well as the Federal Trade Commission Act. Also the Clayton Anti-Trust Act. He also tried to curtail child labor. There's also the whole winning WWI thing.
Dude was a racist fuckface, but he did do some good things at times.
He created the Federal Reserve. As well as the Federal Trade Commission Act. Also the Clayton Anti-Trust Act. He also tried to curtail child labor. There's also the whole winning WWI thing.
Dude was a racist fuckface, but he did do some good things at times.
Trump is a fucking moron, but I don't a situation like the civil war could be repeated because of him.
ginger ninja
Banned
I think history most certainly will be kind to Obama and his perception will only get better with time:
1) Trump is so terrible, by the end even the worst of Obama's naysayers will think of obama years with glee.
2) Obama's global reputation will play a huge part. That dude is truly admired and loved overseas like no other potus so far.
1) Trump is so terrible, by the end even the worst of Obama's naysayers will think of obama years with glee.
2) Obama's global reputation will play a huge part. That dude is truly admired and loved overseas like no other potus so far.
Calm waterfall
Banned
That´s a great fucking resume.
Yeah, every time I learn about structural problems with the American economy or bureaucracy the phrase "under Reagan" is never too far behind.
acheron_xl
Member
You get a president who served for over a decade in the House, and over a decade in the Senate (and was majority leader), you get a president who knows how to make legislation happen.
Ronald Reagan too. This list is deluded garbage.
The only ones I agree with is Lincoln and Ike, the rest is arguable.
Obama I reckon should be slightly higher, the lad made mistakes but he also inherited a clusterfuck of a mess of a country, economically, internationally and socially - eh sorted economy and social but fluffed international stakes but those were complex as F as a result of Bush's illegal wars which resulted in the Syria Disaster.
Obama I reckon should be slightly higher, the lad made mistakes but he also inherited a clusterfuck of a mess of a country, economically, internationally and socially - eh sorted economy and social but fluffed international stakes but those were complex as F as a result of Bush's illegal wars which resulted in the Syria Disaster.
Not with Josef Fucking Stalin. The Labour party in the UK tried this after the war and had their own aircraft technology used against them in Korea.
There's a lot of nice things to say about Eisenhower, but his hands off approach to McCarthyism and enthusiastic injection of religion into the Republican party draw a straight line to what the party eventually became. He talked about the military industrial complex and appointed the CEO of General Motors as Defense Secretary.
D
Deleted member 231381
Unconfirmed Member
Kennedy in top ten, dumb list.
Aha there we go, it all makes sense now.
Bounceounce
Member
Can't believe people actually come in to post things like "but he was a piece of shit".
That's middle school thought level.
That's middle school thought level.
I really doubt people are going to write a dissertation on all of the horrors that Reagan was responsible for on Neogaf. Calling him a piece of shit is just fine for an Internet forum.
Bounceounce
Member
Where did I mention Reagan?
SirNinja
Member
Underrated post.
Tal Shiar Agent
Member
Reagan sucks dick, but Johnson did get the Civil Rights Act and Great Society through. Wilson was sabotaged by an obstructionist Congress, bring his League of Nations was very important.
It seemed like he wa getting the most hate in this thread so I just assumed that's what you were talking about. Sorry if that's not the case.
Bounceounce
Member
I agreed with every negative comment on Reagan, I thought most of those comments and similar moral judgements were directed at other presidents.
benjipwns
Banned
Did somebody say Woodrow Wilson worship?
Then when he had a debilitating stroke he not only allowed his wife to effectively become President but he still tried to get a third term. (11th in crisis leadership!) And this was after he had pissed off the rest of the Allies at the Paris Peace Conference.
Dude was a criminal.
These things always stick good Presidents low and horrific ones highly because they're Great Man wankfests. You can't score highly on "crisis leadership" if there's not a crisis.
Lincoln above Washington on Vision/Setting an Agenda is a joke. Everything depended on Washington's. Lincoln wasn't following any kind of vision, he was doing crisis management and never even lived to see any of Reconstruction including the restriction on slavery in the 13th Amendment passed. And 2nd for economic management? 3rd for public persuasion? What? 3rd for International Relations because he got lucky at Antiem and Gettysburg?!?
Harding oversees an economic boom that was U.S. only somehow and gets ranked 35th for economic management. Wilson leaves him with a global depression and gets 9th. Clinton does everything everyone is now complaining about justified or not (Glass-Steagall, NAFTA, etc.) leaving office as the Asian markets implode and dotcom bubble bursts and gets ranked 3rd.
Wilson enacted almost every other form of his agenda.
Interestingly, the League refused membership to the Soviets and any other Communist state. Along with Germany initially. Asian and African participation was also limited by design. The U.S. couldn't have saved that mess.
TRUMP IS 44TH!
Plus it screws over the Bushes' nicknames for each other.
He deliberately got us involved in that immoral bloodbath in the first place, along with invading Mexico. Much like LBJ and GWB he suppressed the truth and spread lies to justify it. He established a borderline totalitarian state that threw anti-slavery activists in prison, effectively seized control of the press and all industry, empowered the first red scare witch hunts, organized vigilante mobs to attack citizens who didn't do terrible things like buy enough war bonds.
Then when he had a debilitating stroke he not only allowed his wife to effectively become President but he still tried to get a third term. (11th in crisis leadership!) And this was after he had pissed off the rest of the Allies at the Paris Peace Conference.
Dude was a criminal.
These things always stick good Presidents low and horrific ones highly because they're Great Man wankfests. You can't score highly on "crisis leadership" if there's not a crisis.
Lincoln above Washington on Vision/Setting an Agenda is a joke. Everything depended on Washington's. Lincoln wasn't following any kind of vision, he was doing crisis management and never even lived to see any of Reconstruction including the restriction on slavery in the 13th Amendment passed. And 2nd for economic management? 3rd for public persuasion? What? 3rd for International Relations because he got lucky at Antiem and Gettysburg?!?
Harding oversees an economic boom that was U.S. only somehow and gets ranked 35th for economic management. Wilson leaves him with a global depression and gets 9th. Clinton does everything everyone is now complaining about justified or not (Glass-Steagall, NAFTA, etc.) leaving office as the Asian markets implode and dotcom bubble bursts and gets ranked 3rd.
How do you rank FDR first for International Relations when his major accomplishments were helping to destroy half the planet and all of Yurop with his primary allies being nations fighting for their life! I mean come on!
lol wat, the American people didn't want the "entangling alliances" of the League of Nations that could commit them to another criminal slaughter. We still considered ourselves to be only dealing in the Western Hemisphere and Yurop was their own problem. (The "Roosevelt Corollary" and "Clark Memorandum" basically set this division in further stone as official U.S. policy until FDR.)
Wilson enacted almost every other form of his agenda.
Interestingly, the League refused membership to the Soviets and any other Communist state. Along with Germany initially. Asian and African participation was also limited by design. The U.S. couldn't have saved that mess.
WE NEED TO TAKE IT BACK, SHOULDN'T BE COUNTED TWICE
TRUMP IS 44TH!
Plus it screws over the Bushes' nicknames for each other.
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