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Historians Rank Obama 12th Best President

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B

Back-In-Black

Banned
The Chosen One said:
For all of you saying JFK is too high, go read up on the Cuban Missile Crisis.

JFK saved us from got dam nuclear war. Even if his other accomplishments were meager, that alone allows him to be in the top ten for essentially saving the human civilian. Seriously read a book on the Cuban Missile Crisis and you'll have a far greater appreciation for what the man did.

Weaker minded person like George W. Bush would have sent us into a nuclear winter.
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Dude, I think you need to read up on that. Contrary to popular belief, the Cuban Missile Crisis wasn't some great victory for JFK saving us from nuclear Armageddon. Rather, JFK was such a selfish prick that was willing to let the whole world burn to save his political career.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
brochiller said:
Not bad but I'd out Washington at number 1.
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He should get his own division and it should be then everyone else.

Turning down the power he could have had not once but multiple times tops anything anyone else could do.

Also, he once held an opponent's wife's hand in a jar of acid.

At a party.
 
P

pa22word

Member
Back-In-Black said:
Dude, I think you need to read up on that. Contrary to popular belief, the Cuban Missile Crisis wasn't some great victory for JFK saving us from nuclear Armageddon. Rather, JFK was such a selfish prick that he was willing to let the whole world burn to save his political career.
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If you're talking about the turkey thing, that's more on khrushchev for announcing it like he did, forcing the US on to a position of weakness in negotiations by making it appear that the US was making appeasements over nuclear war, both things untenable in such a short period after wwii and in case of potential future discussions, because it sets a precident that the soviets can get what they want by moving some nukes around and making demands. Considering the stakes involved, that's a pretty fair position to take on Kennedy's part.

If you're talking about the entire plan, I'd still lay more of the blame on khrushchev for taking such a stupid risk in the first place and hoping the US wouldn't see them building the things in a country they'd been keeping tabs on very closely with spy planes the soviets knew the US could fly over Cuba.
 
B

brochiller

Member
benjipwns said:
He should get his own division and it should be then everyone else.

Turning down the power he could have had not once but multiple times tops anything anyone else could do.

Also, he once held an opponent's wife's hand in a jar of acid.

At a party.
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The first reason is what I was thinking. How fucked would we be today if he made the Presidency as powerful as he could have?

Your second point solidifies my thoughts even more.
 
P

pa22word

Member
benjipwns said:
He should get his own division and it should be then everyone else.

Turning down the power he could have had not once but multiple times tops anything anyone else could do.

Also, he once held an opponent's wife's hand in a jar of acid.

At a party.
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I mean at that line of thinking Adam's could be justified top material too because him willingly stepping down after losing an election like he did also set a pretty decent precedent.

I mean yeah, there was all those last minute appointments that was pretty crappy, but still. Could have easily broke down into a civil war if things went sideways.
 
benjipwns

benjipwns

Banned
psychowave said:
How the hell is Reagan top 10?
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Since the mid-1990s he's ranked in the top 10 in all of these except Siena's.

It's because they do a multirating system rather than simply asking for an overall like the old polls Schlesinger started. Siena still does an "overall rating" system. Also all the ratings are equally weighted.

Funny enough when UK historians were asked to do this a few years back they ranked Reagan 8th. Only the WSJ's poll in 2005 for their book had him higher and that was because they didn't rank all 42 (at the time) Presidents IIRC.

Also funny is that none of these surveys have ever had the people rate the Presidents on things like civil liberties protected or increase in Americans incarcerated or killed by the state. And so on.

Hopefully from now on they'll include "social media presence" in the ratings.

pa22word said:
I mean at that line of thinking Adam's could be justified top material too because him willingly stepping down after losing an election like he did also set a pretty decent precedent.

I mean yeah, there was all those last minute appointments that was pretty crappy, but still. Could have easily broke down into a civil war if things went sideways.
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The Alien and Sedition Acts counterbalance his avoiding war with France and allowing opposition to take power. So we can balance things out a bit.
 
B

Back-In-Black

Banned
pa22word said:
If you're talking about the turkey thing, that's more on khrushchev for announcing it like he did, forcing the US on to a position of weakness in negotiations by making it appear that the US was making appeasements over nuclear war, both things untenable in such a short period after wwii and in case of potential future discussions, because it sets a precident that the soviets can get what they want by moving some nukes around and making demands. Considering the stakes involved, that's a pretty fair position to take on Kennedy's part.

If you're talking about the entire plan, I'd still lay more of the blame on khrushchev for taking such a stupid risk in the first place and hoping the US wouldn't see them building the things in a country they'd been keeping tabs on very closely with spy planes the soviets knew the US could fly over Cuba.
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The entire situation was caused by Kennedy and the reality is that it wasn't a real threat. Let me explain.

First, Kennedy was a weak little bitch and so when he took office he went back and forth on fully supporting the Bay of Pigs operation. Then at the last minute decided to back off and deny the Cuban invaders the air support they were promised. This of course led to them being handily defeated and later executed. Cuba remaining Communist was entirely Kennedy's fault which of course allowed the crisis to happen in the first place. Thus, when the "crisis" did actually take place Kennedy knew that if he ever wanted a second term he needed to "win," because the Republicans would rightfully eat him alive if the missiles managed to stay in Cuba. The entire "crisis" was about saving his political future.

Now, the reason the Cuban Missile Crisis wasn't actually a big deal and why Russia didn't understand this at first is because it didn't change anything with regards to the nuclear stage between the two parties. Idiots talk about how the missiles were so close to the U.S. thus dangerously only allowing a short time between a launch and our ability to respond. However, that was always the case. The Russians parked nuclear submarines all along the East Coast, even closer than Cuba was to Russia. In the event of a first strike we would always only be able to respond within a few minutes. Second, we had missiles in Turkey, right at the border of Russia. A bit hypocritical to criticize Russia of having missiles near our border when we had missiles near theirs. Unless of course it wasn't a big deal and was expected between the powers. The only stark difference is that it was the first time a Communist nation had nukes in the Western Hemisphere/Americas.

It's not even like we were enforcing the Monroe Doctrine since Communist nations already existed in the Western Hemisphere/Americas. The entire "crisis" was Kennedy's fault and it was a manufactured panic. The reality was that nothing about Cuba having missiles changed MAD or the nuclear landscape. It was purely about saving Kennedy's career.
 
M

McLovin

Member
Considering how desperate republicans were to block everything he did he got a lot of good done. It would have been nice if republicans didn't have so many states.
 
E

Elandyll

Banned
I'd defifinitely put him over Reagan, so there's that.

Surprising that Obama gets decked for his relationship with Congress, when it was pretty obvious from the get go that he was going the extra mile to reach out across the isle, even alienating his own base at times, but that Republicans had decided they would never work with him ("our goal is to make him a one term Presiden", "You Lie!", Birth Certificate, systematic obstructionism, etc.)
 
B

Beartruck

Member
BadenBadenLily said:
Woodrow Wilson was a total piece of shit.

Why is he ranked so highly?
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Seriously. Politicians around the country were absolutely furious at him over his handling of World War 1. He was so reticent to enter the war that even after Germany started openly sinking ships of ours he had to be dragged into it.
 
Auto_aim1

Auto_aim1

MeisaMcCaffrey
It's mainly because of his personal qualities. He is an extremely likeable person. As president, he elevated the office with little to no scandals and behaved impeccably. Sadly, not many domestic policy wins, weak foreign policy and his party lost tons of seats during his tenure. He made a huge mistake by trying to compromise with Republicans. He should not have done that because he won two elections convincingly and with a huge mandate. Should have tried to aggressively push policies.

Also it's amusing that an incompetent person like Trump has both houses of Congress and will likely have a senate super-majority in 2018. Unbelievable.
 
Z

zeemumu

Member
FZZ said:
Man then we've had some awful presidents
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Not awful, just not very memorable. We typically only remember presidents who did well during some kind of national crisis or fucked up royally.

TheWhiteWolf said:
Some names make the list questionable.
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But, all of them except Trump are on that list, aren't they?

Goodstyle said:
I wonder where Trump will rank...
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Closer to the bottom, probably a few above Andrew Johnson
 
oneils

oneils

Member
Retro4ever said:
He also nominated the first female supreme court justice and signed the civil rights act which compensated those affected by the Japanese interment camps during World War 2. It was also no coincidence that the American hostages in Iran were flown back to America the same day he was sworn into office.

Yes he has a bad record with many things but he did have some good accomplishments as well.
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The guy you quoted was referring to Eisenhower. And I think you are referring to Regan.
 
C

Coriolanus

Banned
The Albatross said:
And while I'm a liberal, Reagan deserves credit. Most liberals are unwilling to recognize the state of the US in 1979 versus the state of the US in 1988, and most of that has to do with Ronald Reagan. I feel like the liberal antagonism against Reagan, today, is similar to the Republican antagoism against Obama. Liberals will hold onto a few inconsequential issues and completely miss the bigger picture, for the sole sake of lambasting their opponent.
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The US wasn't in a bad spot in 79. The world was in a bad spot in 79.

And then this happened right after.

But these are, of course, inconsequential issues.
 
T

TyrantII

Member
Otatoptohami said:
Maybe its just me but isn't it a bit early to judge that?
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Nope.

These things are fluid too. They're not constant, although the further down the road the more the CW is cemented.

plop said:
The fact that Kennedy is so high and Jefferson is so low makes me question that list. Obama is about where he should be.

It's all opinion, but yeah.
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Jefferson's hypocrisy has come into focus a lot the last few decades and he's taken some hits. His land purchases leading to the genocide of First Nations people are a mixed bag as well for everyone but the modern country.
 
BeforeU

BeforeU

Oft hope is born when all is forlorn.
Harry Truman was one of the worst fucking human being. Asshole dropped 2 nuclear bomb for sake of it. He should be last in the list. So fuck this list.
 
J

JABEE

Member
The Albatross said:
I fucking hate stupid posts like this. "X Person was a piece of shit." Please come up with a list of world leaders from 1918 who would qualify as not pieces of shit? You can't isolate a man from history and judge him exclusively under a modern lense. If we judged historical figures on the basis of our modern prejudices, then Donald Trump may very well be considered less of a piece of shit than Abraham Lincoln, and that's ridiculous.

Wilson was a great mediator, had strong domestic policy, and provided a framework of peace for Western democracies. The concept of the United Nations was derived from his philosophy of statecraft, and while Republicans have maligned the UN for 30 years, its has secured a lasting peace for some 70 years, something that no other international framework has ever provided before or after it. If there is one president who can be credited with making the modern world, behind FDR, it's Woodrow Wilson.
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This. I think Woodrow Wilson is underrated on this list. I wouldn't rank JFK, LBJ, or Reagan above him.
 
B

Back-In-Black

Banned
BeforeU said:
Watch america's untold history documentary
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You mean Oliver Stone's nonsense revisionist wank fest? No thank you. Dropping the bombs were necessary to win the war.

JABEE said:
This. I think Woodrow Wilson is underrated on this list. I wouldn't rank JFK, LBJ, or Reagan above him.
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Why? He was a racist piece of shit that got us involved in WWI for no reason and then failed to even get his own League of Nations through Congress.
 
Link1110

Link1110

Member
How are there presidents worse than GWB? The man sent so many people to their doom in his unjustified Iraq war and is responsible for the circumstances leading to the creation of Isis.
 
B

Back-In-Black

Banned
Link1110 said:
How are there presidents worse than GWB? The man sent so many people to their doom in his unjustified Iraq war and is responsible for the circumstances of the creation of Isis.
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Well, Buchanon allowed the Civil War to happen and Andrew Johnson abandoned Reconstructionism giving the South back to the racist slave owners, paving the way for 100 years of Jim Crow.
 
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